NO ZINK IN THE MOBILE 1 OIL ANYMORE - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

WB9MCW · 02-14-2007

DAW THIS ON THE NET SERV AND THOUGHT IT WOULD MAKE AN INTERESTING THREAD FOR COMMENTS HERE---WHAT DO YOU THINK/KNOW ABT THIS ISSUE???

Has Anyone read up on the effects that the removal of Zinc Phosphate from oil is having on engines. We had a speaker at my local corvette club (Corvette Club of Delaware Valley) meeting speaking about this. Evidently the federal government has mandated the zinc removal and it is causing engine problems. This particular gentleman was running diesel truck oil in his cars in 2006 because it still had it but is being removed per mandate in 2007. He is now running Comp Cam break-in additive (has Zinc)in his oil. He has older Corvettes and various other cars (Ferrari's, etc.) so Synthetic oil is not involved.
Is anyone familiar with this and what about synthetic (Mobil 1)??

This is from memory so it is a bit vague. A year or so ago there was
a thread here that discussed this topic related specifically to Mobil 1's
New 'Advanced' formula (zinc eliminated). The discussion at that time
indicated that some people (as I recall Hib offered some insight at the
time) were using Mobil 1 motorcycle specification oil which was supposed
to retain the zinc at that time. Also it was mentioned that Mobil 1,
15-50 weight oil retained the zinc phosphate additive . I use Mobil 1
combined 15-50 with 10-30 weight which seems to help with start up chain
rattle and purchased a large quantity of the "old" formula 15-50 to
benefit from the zinc content. (Mixed weight oil is a personal decision,
not OEM supported and subject to debate among members of this list. This
is not a recommendation). There was good information in that thread and
you may benefit from an archive search or recollections from some that
have a better memory. John R Sullivan '91 Polo Saddle #283 Original
owner.

My understanding from this discussion is zinc is no longer in the Motorcycle oil and we all should be looking for a suitable replacement. I will check out the archive. I must have missed that thread

I found this information - I think it was also mentioned in a
relatively recent issue of either Vette or Corvette fever. It seems
to talk mostly about older flat-tappet engines.

"...reduce the amount of ZDDP (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate) in
street-legal, gasoline-engine motor oils. After all, they weren't
needed with modern roller lifters and overhead-cam followers. The
reduction first started in the mid-'80s, and it has been a gradual
process, but the latest API SM and GF-4 specs have reduced ZDDP
content to such an extent that the new oils may not provide adequate
protection for older, flat-tappet-equipped vehicles running nonstock,
performance cams and valvetrains.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ech/index.html

SO DOES IT MEAN WE DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABT THIS ISSUE IN THE LT-5??? OR DO WE???

MY GUESS IS WE DO NOT SINCE WE DO NOT HAVE FLAT TOP ROCKERS???

Bill · 02-14-2007

Was reading the same emails last night and had the same thoughts. When was ZDDP removed from Mobile 1? Is there a ZDDP stand alone additive available? Will the addition of ZDDP be bad for our cats? I'm just full of questions this morning.

Also read that ZDDP is being removed from heavy diesel oils this year.

DaveK · 02-14-2007

Hi

I was one of the posters on the maillist, I also found this article on additives and ZDDP -

http://www.performancemotoroil.com/t...additives.html

which also suggests it's not such a big deal perhaps. For example:

"The zinc in your oil comes into play only when there is actual metal-to-metal con tact within your engine, which should never occur under normal operating conditions"

So presumably as long as you're not starving the oil from parts of your engine, it should be okay.

It seems unlikely to me that oil companies would make changes that would end up causing damage to customers engines. I know we're talking about 'high performance' engines here, but I would imagine that your typical oriental 'buzz bomb' isn't too dissimilar in terms of loads per component.

Internet scare perhaps?

Aurora40 · 02-14-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveK

It seems unlikely to me that oil companies would make changes that would end up causing damage to customers engines.

Well, they'll make any changes the goverment mandates...

Aurora40 · 02-14-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by WB9MCW

MY GUESS IS WE DO NOT SINCE WE DO NOT HAVE FLAT TOP ROCKERS???

I believe we do have flat lifters, i.e. they slide along the cam lobes they are not roller lifters. The first gen Northstar motors also had that, they didn't get roller lifters until the 2000 redesign.

WB9MCW · 02-15-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora40

I believe we do have flat lifters, i.e. they slide along the cam lobes they are not roller lifters. The first gen Northstar motors also had that, they didn't get roller lifters until the 2000 redesign.

Yes that was my way of starting the debate and quest for the answer. Are we flat-do we need need to worry?

DaveK · 02-14-2007

"...reduce the amount of ZDDP (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate) in
street-legal, gasoline-engine motor oils. After all, they weren't
needed with modern roller lifters and overhead-cam followers..."

The government can obviously mandate anything they can get away with, but I doubt that the oil companies (and their huge lobbying groups) would go along with it if they were opening themselves up to who know's what lawsuits by deliberately creating a product that will knowingly damage what is bound to be a large number of engines?

It just seems to me to have the hallmarks of internet hysteria - a couple of guys do engine builds, dont use the right assembly lube and screw their engines up. Of course they could never make a mistake so they find a convenient scapegoat. You know how it goes.

Has anyone any first hand experience or attributable data on damage caused by this? I have a completely open mind - but rumours posted on the internet aren't evidence.

TommyL · 02-14-2007

Interesting topic

Aurora40 · 02-15-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by WB9MCW

do we need need to worry?

I have no idea. I can say I'm not worried though. I'll just keep on using M1 EP 10w-30 unless some day something conclusive is shown or some better (cheaper, easier to find, etc) alternative comes up. I can't imagine having to order my motor oil or find a distributor. If I can't pick it up from the store on the way home from work, I'm not interested.

TommyL · 02-15-2007

What about "Royal Purple" does it have this Zink in it? Does anyone use Royal Purple?

02-14-2007	#1
WB9MCW Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: McHenry, Il. Posts: 6,584	NO ZINK IN THE MOBILE 1 OIL ANYMORE DAW THIS ON THE NET SERV AND THOUGHT IT WOULD MAKE AN INTERESTING THREAD FOR COMMENTS HERE---WHAT DO YOU THINK/KNOW ABT THIS ISSUE??? Has Anyone read up on the effects that the removal of Zinc Phosphate from oil is having on engines. We had a speaker at my local corvette club (Corvette Club of Delaware Valley) meeting speaking about this. Evidently the federal government has mandated the zinc removal and it is causing engine problems. This particular gentleman was running diesel truck oil in his cars in 2006 because it still had it but is being removed per mandate in 2007. He is now running Comp Cam break-in additive (has Zinc)in his oil. He has older Corvettes and various other cars (Ferrari's, etc.) so Synthetic oil is not involved. Is anyone familiar with this and what about synthetic (Mobil 1)?? This is from memory so it is a bit vague. A year or so ago there was a thread here that discussed this topic related specifically to Mobil 1's New 'Advanced' formula (zinc eliminated). The discussion at that time indicated that some people (as I recall Hib offered some insight at the time) were using Mobil 1 motorcycle specification oil which was supposed to retain the zinc at that time. Also it was mentioned that Mobil 1, 15-50 weight oil retained the zinc phosphate additive . I use Mobil 1 combined 15-50 with 10-30 weight which seems to help with start up chain rattle and purchased a large quantity of the "old" formula 15-50 to benefit from the zinc content. (Mixed weight oil is a personal decision, not OEM supported and subject to debate among members of this list. This is not a recommendation). There was good information in that thread and you may benefit from an archive search or recollections from some that have a better memory. John R Sullivan '91 Polo Saddle #283 Original owner. My understanding from this discussion is zinc is no longer in the Motorcycle oil and we all should be looking for a suitable replacement. I will check out the archive. I must have missed that thread I found this information - I think it was also mentioned in a relatively recent issue of either Vette or Corvette fever. It seems to talk mostly about older flat-tappet engines. "...reduce the amount of ZDDP (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate) in street-legal, gasoline-engine motor oils. After all, they weren't needed with modern roller lifters and overhead-cam followers. The reduction first started in the mid-'80s, and it has been a gradual process, but the latest API SM and GF-4 specs have reduced ZDDP content to such an extent that the new oils may not provide adequate protection for older, flat-tappet-equipped vehicles running nonstock, performance cams and valvetrains. http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...ech/index.html SO DOES IT MEAN WE DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABT THIS ISSUE IN THE LT-5??? OR DO WE??? MY GUESS IS WE DO NOT SINCE WE DO NOT HAVE FLAT TOP ROCKERS???

02-14-2007	#3
DaveK Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sudbury, Ontario. Canada Posts: 1,533	Re: NO ZINK IN THE MOBILE 1 OIL ANYMORE Hi I was one of the posters on the maillist, I also found this article on additives and ZDDP - http://www.performancemotoroil.com/t...additives.html which also suggests it's not such a big deal perhaps. For example: "The zinc in your oil comes into play only when there is actual metal-to-metal con tact within your engine, which should never occur under normal operating conditions" So presumably as long as you're not starving the oil from parts of your engine, it should be okay. It seems unlikely to me that oil companies would make changes that would end up causing damage to customers engines. I know we're talking about 'high performance' engines here, but I would imagine that your typical oriental 'buzz bomb' isn't too dissimilar in terms of loads per component. Internet scare perhaps? __________________ 1991 #1516 Black/Black davidmkelly.com Author of fast-paced, sci-fi thrillers.

02-14-2007	#7
DaveK Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sudbury, Ontario. Canada Posts: 1,533	Re: NO ZINK IN THE MOBILE 1 OIL ANYMORE "...reduce the amount of ZDDP (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate) in street-legal, gasoline-engine motor oils. After all, they weren't needed with modern roller lifters and overhead-cam followers..." The government can obviously mandate anything they can get away with, but I doubt that the oil companies (and their huge lobbying groups) would go along with it if they were opening themselves up to who know's what lawsuits by deliberately creating a product that will knowingly damage what is bound to be a large number of engines? It just seems to me to have the hallmarks of internet hysteria - a couple of guys do engine builds, dont use the right assembly lube and screw their engines up. Of course they could never make a mistake so they find a convenient scapegoat. You know how it goes. Has anyone any first hand experience or attributable data on damage caused by this? I have a completely open mind - but rumours posted on the internet aren't evidence. __________________ 1991 #1516 Black/Black davidmkelly.com Author of fast-paced, sci-fi thrillers.

02-14-2007	#8
TommyL Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 204	Re: NO ZINK IN THE MOBILE 1 OIL ANYMORE Interesting topic

02-15-2007	#10
TommyL Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 204	Re: NO ZINK IN THE MOBILE 1 OIL ANYMORE What about "Royal Purple" does it have this Zink in it? Does anyone use Royal Purple?

02-14-2007	#2
Bill Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA. Posts: 141	Re: NO ZINK IN THE MOBILE 1 OIL ANYMORE Was reading the same emails last night and had the same thoughts. When was ZDDP removed from Mobile 1? Is there a ZDDP stand alone additive available? Will the addition of ZDDP be bad for our cats? I'm just full of questions this morning. Also read that ZDDP is being removed from heavy diesel oils this year.