Fuel tank geometry [water in fuel]...

[Schrade]

edit:
I HIGHLY suggest that if you find water in your tank, that you pump off as much water as you can, THEN add alcohol / water remover AFTERWARD.

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I got water in the tank.

Q: Does the fuel pump jumper push both pumps?
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[edit: THE FUEL PUMP JUMPER PUSHES BOTH PUMPS!!!]
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Last week I had a mild sputter. Next day it was worse. No SES. Then I remembered water in the filler neck. Gas cap had been tight, and it hisses when removed, so I thought, 'good seal', water didn't get in, even after it filled AGAIN the day after I pulled the Junebug

Sunday hard start, then NO START.

FP test yesterday.

Paper towel for spill:



Tape the release valve on the FP gauge, and jump the pump test terminal til fuel comes through clear.



Result:



I put in a Heet Water Remover in the tank.

Then sprayed starting fluid into the TB, and it fired, but only for a moment.

Hopefully today the water is in solution...

Ideas?

[cvette98pacecar]

Originally Posted by Schrade

I got water in the tank.

Q: Does the fuel pump jumper push both pumps?
----------------------
[edit: THE FUEL PUMP JUMPER PUSHES BOTH PUMPS!!!]
--------------------

Last week I had a mild sputter. Next day it was worse. No SES. Then I remembered water in the filler neck. Gas cap had been tight, and it hisses when removed, so I thought, 'good seal', water didn't get in, even after it filled AGAIN the day after I pulled the Junebug

Sunday hard start, then NO START.

FP test yesterday.

Paper towel for spill:



Tape the release valve on the FP gauge, and jump the pump test terminal til fuel comes through clear.



Result:



I put in a Heet Water Remover in the tank.

Then sprayed starting fluid into the TB, and it fired, but only for a moment.

Hopefully today the water is in solution...

Ideas?

Use your fuel pumps and drain the tank. Use the gas for your lawnmower.

Do they mix petro with lemonade in your area.

[Paul Workman]

BTDT in the past.

No need to drain the entire tank. Besides, the ZR-1 fuel pumps pickup will not scavenge the bare bottom of the tank anyway. So, I too was able to get the water out, as you say, with the help of some "Heat" (aka, alcohol based fuel antifreeze) - as a second step. But, first try siphoning the fuel/water from the bottom after first tipping the car to one side (by jack one side, or driving the car up on blocks on one side in order to tip the car/tank so that the water will concentrate to the side and be easier to collect near the edge of the tank).



You'll have to allow 5 minutes or so for the solution to settle. Then, remove the fuel pump assembly in order to steer the siphon hose to the low-side edge of the tank. I find it helps to have a large clear jar to catch the siphoned liquid so that it can be easily examined to determine when most of the water is removed (one of those glass gallon "sun tea" jars works well, I find).

Once the bulk of the water is removed, a can of that HEAT will absorb the remainder of the water. Then, you can concentrate on how the water got in there: e.g., is the gas cap sealing?

Oh, and don't forget to run the pumps (energizing the pumps at the test connector, ignition switch OFF) to purge the fuel rail! Short of removing the twin fuel rails, I don't know how you'd purge the driver-side rail, short of removing the rails. But, with at least one side purged, I would think the motor would start and and run well enough to quickly self-purge the driver side rail.

Paul.

[mike100]

For anyone who cares to answer: What were the symptoms during the drive of having gasoline with too much alcohol and/or water in the system?

[Schrade]

Thanks Rob; I wanted to know if jumping the pumps at the test jumper would get the water from the tank bottom, with FP gauge pressure relief open. AND if the test jump fires BOTH pumps. I think Paul answered the 'geometry' question...

Originally Posted by mike100

For anyone who cares to answer: What were the symptoms during the drive of having gasoline with too much alcohol and/or water in the system?

I was heading back to the house, and noticed a very slight hesitation - not the infamous 'coming off of idle RPM's' hesitation. Anyone else probably wouldn't have even noticed it. Ran smoothly after that for a mile back to the house. Next day, mild sputter in the driveway, and next morning it wouldn't start at all.

Last night, it idled rough, then smooth for a while, and I drove around the block. Barely made it back. HAS to be more water; just how much.............

And now an SES 44, lean left side burn (this is Driver's side??? ) .

I keep the tank full. Fillin' the Z is fun too

The cap holds atmospheric pressure (+, or -, hard to tell - you unscrew it, and hear air hiss). I have no clue how water got in, except when the filler liner got plugged, with HEAVY rain for 3 days, and the car outside, while doin' interior resto' on my GMC, and waiting for a replacement tranny control module from TCI.

[Paul Workman]

Originally Posted by Schrade

*...I have no clue how water got in, except when the filler liner got plugged, with HEAVY rain for 3 days, and the car outside,....

In my case, I believe the water came from the bulk delivery truck that was fueling the gas station's tanks at the time I was fueling up. OR, there might have been water in the bulk tank that got swirled into a temporary emulsion as the tanker unloaded fuel into the bulk tank.

Note to self: NEVER buy gas from a station which is receiving a bulk gas delivery!! Condensation WILL collect in the bottom of the underground bulk tank, and will be emulsified for a while during and after a bulk filling.

[Schrade]

Need to change the title of my thread to 'fuel in water'.

I DID find some gas in my tank. All the rest IS water.



Not flowing:



Flowing:



Then let off the jumper (the alligator clip started to get warm), and you can barely see big water drops in the line:

[Schrade]

Draw what conclusions you will, from the efficacy of 'HEET Water Remover'.

I drained about 4 gallons in a utility bucket, then these 4 96 oz jugs, in order furthest jug, to nearest jug.

You can barely see the 'water line', in each one - looks about the same.



MY conclusion?

HEET doesn't solve the water. It holds it in suspension.

I think a bottle of Everclear 190 Proof ethanol would do a MUCH better job, for about twice the cost of HEET.

[Jim Nolan]

Ah! Everclear a reminder of my young stupid days. I'm suprised I'm still here.

[Hog]

Originally Posted by Jim Nolan

Ah! Everclear a reminder of my young stupid days. I'm suprised I'm still here.

I saw a guy do flaming shots and light his face on fire with Everclear. Idiot, lets drink 95% ethanol thats already on fire. I through my mug of beer on him to put it out.
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I'm thinking never letting your tank get under 1/2 full could make this issue worse? The tank geometry doesnt help either.

Heck adding a petcock at the lowest point would be worth it.

E85 would take some of that water, its roughly 85% Ethanol (170 proof)depending on season. Much cheaper than Everclear, too bad it's other 15% isnt too friendly to the system.