E85 calibration for emissions testing

[rkreigh]

need to get a chip burned for E85 in VA

would like to try passing emissions with the 390 using E85

car will need to be tested with an exh gas analyzer to make sure it can get clearner than 48 HC (which E85 should help)

Marc or Corey can likely do this but don't have the exh gas analyzer and I don't want the expense of driving the car there anyway

any thoughts??

maybe Tony's corvette with help from them doing a "mail order tune"

my car has cams, no secondaries, and was running around 140 HC last test.

let me know if you all have any ideas. tony's has a GREAT dyno, but maybe not the exh gas analyzer.

hoping to only do this ONCE. thanks!

[XfireZ51]

Ron,

What part of the test exactly does the car fail? Do you have a plot of the HC and pardon me for asking but what cams are we talking about? E85?

[rkreigh]

I've got the Stage II LPE cams. 440 lift, 234 duration. something like that

I don't have much info as the emissions tests were done long ago and the VA just gives you the readings at the various MPH

I think it was the worst at idle at around 140 HC on a 48 HC standard.

[XfireZ51]

Originally Posted by rkreigh

I've got the Stage II LPE cams. 440 lift, 234 duration. something like that

I don't have much info as the emissions tests were done long ago and the VA just gives you the readings at the various MPH

I think it was the worst at idle at around 140 HC on a 48 HC standard.

I can imagine it was probably idle and on decel.

[rkreigh]

anyone have tips for doing an E85 calibration?

just needs to run the car up to 30 mph or so, no secondaries so I can use both injectors.

need a tuner in VA who can work with me an ideally has an exh gas analyzer so I can validate that it will blow clean enough

might be able to work with Marc or Corey mail order and do several tries to get it right.

I do have EASE so I can collect the data.

thanks!

[Marc Haibeck]

Hi Ron,

All that should be needed is to flow about twice as much fuel compared to E10. I think that the oxygen sensors would still switch at 14.7:1 so they would need to be shut off and run open loop.

I would be concerned about the effect that the E85 would have on the fuel system hardware if exposed to it for over a week.

[USAFPILOT]

I am interested in this as well. I failed emissions for NO2 on gas, but with a can of denatured alcohol in the tank the NO2 came way way under but my HC's came right up to the limit. Was able to squeak under on the second pass on my second test by 1 HC. I am using the stock tune, but the car now has SW Headers, High Flow Cats and a B&B 3" exhaust with X Pipe.

[rkreigh]

running on both injectors full time with both pumps running will provide more than enough fuel to do 25 mph which is all the car needs to do for the emissions dyno.

I "spiked the gas" with lamp fuel a few years ago and got the car down to 98 HC on a 99 standard, but that was also before the secondary flaps were removed.

my cats are definitely older and putting some BIG and fresh cats on the car is worthwhile to see how clean I can get the car "as is"

Tony's corvette shop certainly has the dyno and probably an exhaust gas analyzer, and hopefully working with Marc and sending the data captures back and forth we could get this done. I know Tony has a tuner also so they may be willing to have a go at it.

probably will be a bit pricey but worth it!

[Hib Halverson]

Oxygen sensors sense lambda and 1.0 lambda is stoichiometric combustion for any carbon-based fuel be it pure ethanol or gasoline.

If you're going to try to cal for E85, know that...

1) Stoich for E85 is is around 9.8 but can vary because pump E85 often varies between 70 and 85% ethanol. So, you're going to need to calibrate for a lot more fuel flow, even at part throttle.

2) E85 is corrosive to metal parts of fuel systems not originally designed for it. Also, it may attack rubber and plastic fuel system parts.

If the car is close on passing the IM240 type test, I'd put some known good stock cats on it, then go get the cats really hot just before you test. If your car cools well, drive around the block several times at medium rpm in first gear then pull right into the test bay. Or if the test station is close to the expressway, drive in fourth gear at highway speeds for five minutes then go test.

[rkreigh]

Originally Posted by Hib Halverson

Oxygen sensors sense lambda and 1.0 lambda is stoichiometric combustion for any carbon-based fuel be it pure ethanol or gasoline.

If you're going to try to cal for E85, know that...

1) Stoich for E85 is is around 9.8 but can vary because pump E85 often varies between 70 and 85% ethanol. So, you're going to need to calibrate for a lot more fuel flow, even at part throttle.

2) E85 is corrosive to metal parts of fuel systems not originally designed for it. Also, it may attack rubber and plastic fuel system parts.

If the car is close on passing the IM240 type test, I'd put some known good stock cats on it, then go get the cats really hot just before you test. If your car cools well, drive around the block several times at medium rpm in first gear then pull right into the test bay. Or if the test station is close to the expressway, drive in fourth gear at highway speeds for five minutes then go test.

I'll likely blend my own E85 to control it better. I'll likely try some fresh cats out but with the cams, no secondaries, headers, ect... I doubt I'll get the 390 to blow cleaner than 48 HC at idle.

hoping the E85 (or pure alchy for that matter) would be an alternative

if the car could be calibrated to run on it without breaking the bank I'm not too worried about the limited exposure the fuel system would have.

I'd only have it in there long enough to get through the dyno/sniff test

I'd warm it up on gas, drain it, swap fuel & memcal, and drain it out an hour later.

I'm only a block from the emissions test so it wouldn't even have to run that great as long as it can run clean, go 25 or 30 mph, to get by the dyno test.

any advice on folks in Northern VA that might be able to help out with this.

Tony's Corvettes is the only folks that might take this on, but I'm sure they would need some remote help from a better tuner.

I don't have secondaries in the car either.