removing the secondaries a compelling story - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

GOLDCYLON · 09-09-2011

Scope view at point of discovery the awwww Crap moment!!!!!

Folks a lot of you know I am going through a motor rebuilding process. For those of you not in the know my car engine stopped dead in late May of this year almost at idle. Preliminary checks revealed Zero compression on Cylinder #2. I am sharing this as a documented failure on my 91 for the entire community’s info.

Here was the cause. One of the butterfly valves (#2 Cylinder)for the secondary’s snapped at the shaft screw point and fell into the head into the combuston chanmber and wedged a valve open. You can cleary see the fatigue at the screw point of the shaft. Scoring was seen on both the #2 and #4 pistons. This actually happened to me before on the other side of the motor when I received a CODE 61 Error. That time the parts did not go into the motor.

IMHO the debate is over. If you are doing any headwork or motor work remove the secondary system. Blades, Rods, actuators, reservoirs etc. Who doesn’t drive our car in full power anyway?

Just FYI and I hope this helps another brother out. This is a failure point but after 20yrs there are bound to be a few. Please heed my sage advise. GC

FU · 09-09-2011

Correctamundo. We don't need no stinkin secondaries ! Yank them out and plug 'em up.

GOLDCYLON · 09-09-2011

I also want to add my car was a daily driver with 122k Miles. No issues up to that point for almost a year the engine just died. It did restart but was obviously running like a drunken mule on 7 cylinders.

GOLDCYLON · 09-09-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by FU2

Correctamundo. We don't need no stinkin secondaries ! Yank them out and plug 'em up.

And Frank ought to know. BTW My heads are being ported, welded and Multiangled at this time. With Petes Intake Cams and a 380 bottom end with a Fidanza flywheel. OH Baby

tomtom72 · 09-09-2011

Jez, that stinks Daryll! Pardon me while I reach for the bourbon to kill the pain.

Okay I got a question.......awe come on you knew this was coming...

....

The only stress that I can identify is the suction caused by an intake stroke when the butterfly is closed......which is almost all the time if you live where I do....maybe I better start driving around in 2nd and leave it at 4th till I get to WV.....

.....I mean how could this not happen, right?

signed:
the lost grasshopper

GOLDCYLON · 09-09-2011

Must be heavy throttle syndrome.

tomtom72 · 09-09-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

Must be heavy throttle syndrome.

but I'm serious...what stress? It takes 8"Hg & they're open fully. They don't close until you back out enough that the ECM says okay, no more. The only stress has to be from the intake stroke when they're closed, right?

On another note: I do hope you get the worst case of permagrin that side of the great plains!

Tom

FU · 09-09-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

And Frank ought to know. BTW My heads are being ported, welded and Multiangled at this time. With Petes Intake Cams and a 380 bottom end with a Fidanza flywheel. OH Baby

Good choice D !!

cvette98pacecar · 09-11-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

And Frank ought to know. BTW My heads are being ported, welded and Multiangled at this time. With Petes Intake Cams and a 380 bottom end with a Fidanza flywheel. OH Baby

I raised this question a month or so ago and Mark Haibeck said there was very little benefit in porting the heads. Did I miss something?

Kevin · 09-11-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvette98pacecar

I raised this question a month or so ago and Mark Haibeck said there was very little benefit in porting the heads. Did I miss something?

according to his website head porting is worth 35 hp...http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20W...20upgrades.htm

maybe mark can chime in here

09-09-2011	#1
GOLDCYLON Join Date: May 2007 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 9,155	removing the secondaries a compelling story Scope view at point of discovery the awwww Crap moment!!!!! Folks a lot of you know I am going through a motor rebuilding process. For those of you not in the know my car engine stopped dead in late May of this year almost at idle. Preliminary checks revealed Zero compression on Cylinder #2. I am sharing this as a documented failure on my 91 for the entire community’s info. Here was the cause. One of the butterfly valves (#2 Cylinder)for the secondary’s snapped at the shaft screw point and fell into the head into the combuston chanmber and wedged a valve open. You can cleary see the fatigue at the screw point of the shaft. Scoring was seen on both the #2 and #4 pistons. This actually happened to me before on the other side of the motor when I received a CODE 61 Error. That time the parts did not go into the motor. IMHO the debate is over. If you are doing any headwork or motor work remove the secondary system. Blades, Rods, actuators, reservoirs etc. Who doesn’t drive our car in full power anyway? Just FYI and I hope this helps another brother out. This is a failure point but after 20yrs there are bound to be a few. Please heed my sage advise. GC __________________ GOLDCYLON - 91 ZR-1 #2014 GOLDCYLON - 90 ZR-1 #2794, 4L60e (Formerly Schrade's) GOLDCYLON - 11 CTS-V Arizona State Director 91 WHITE/BLACK #2014. 380 P&P&PCed,Ported Heads, Jeal Long tubes, Corsa Exhaust/FIKSE FM-5s /LED TLs, LED Headlights, Front Wilwood 6 piston narrowlite calipers and rear Wilwood caliper street shop mod,CNCed Coolant Pipes,TPI Cvr,Filter cover,Stainless Bolts, DRM/DOM PROM /ZFDOC mod build #102,DRLs,BMAD with stainless Debris Screen,Coplan Air Blaster, Pioneer APP Radio 4,Brey-Krause HB,Sub Bar,Fire extinguisher seat mount,DRM Coilovers,LEDs everywhere,Compass mirror (orange),V1 DIC hidden display, Homelink sun visor, Carbon Fiber top x3 and APSIS Carbon Fiber interior, APSIS CF Steering Wheel/NAPA Leather, Banski trailing arms, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension) ZFDoc drive shaft safety loop, raptor shift light (orange),AO engineering louver front plate, Console seat cushion, 96CE seats with black custom Sheepskins, ss billet catch can,Viper remote entry/alarm,Cragar Rear Louvers,LED side louver lights, Dewitts Radiator with SPAL fans and a Woods 160 T-Stat 90 RED/BLACK #2794. 4L60e Automatic Stage V by RPM Transmission, TCI Dedicated TCM, OBX Stainless Headers, Corsa Exhaust, SAN Secondaries and Haibeck PROM, Exotic Muscle Coil overs, LED Interior Lights, LED Tail Lights, LED Headlights, 94 Sport seats with black custom Sheepskins , Cragar rear louvers, GS Front calipers, Banski Trailing arms, APSIS Carbon Fiber steering wheel, Front and Rear Baer Eradispeeds, DRLs, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension), Dewitt's Raditor with Dual SPAL fans and a Haibeck 170 T-Stat 11 RED/GREY CTS-V Last edited by GOLDCYLON; 03-27-2012 at 02:19 AM.

09-09-2011	#3
GOLDCYLON Join Date: May 2007 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 9,155	Re: removing the secondaries a compelling story I also want to add my car was a daily driver with 122k Miles. No issues up to that point for almost a year the engine just died. It did restart but was obviously running like a drunken mule on 7 cylinders. __________________ GOLDCYLON - 91 ZR-1 #2014 GOLDCYLON - 90 ZR-1 #2794, 4L60e (Formerly Schrade's) GOLDCYLON - 11 CTS-V Arizona State Director 91 WHITE/BLACK #2014. 380 P&P&PCed,Ported Heads, Jeal Long tubes, Corsa Exhaust/FIKSE FM-5s /LED TLs, LED Headlights, Front Wilwood 6 piston narrowlite calipers and rear Wilwood caliper street shop mod,CNCed Coolant Pipes,TPI Cvr,Filter cover,Stainless Bolts, DRM/DOM PROM /ZFDOC mod build #102,DRLs,BMAD with stainless Debris Screen,Coplan Air Blaster, Pioneer APP Radio 4,Brey-Krause HB,Sub Bar,Fire extinguisher seat mount,DRM Coilovers,LEDs everywhere,Compass mirror (orange),V1 DIC hidden display, Homelink sun visor, Carbon Fiber top x3 and APSIS Carbon Fiber interior, APSIS CF Steering Wheel/NAPA Leather, Banski trailing arms, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension) ZFDoc drive shaft safety loop, raptor shift light (orange),AO engineering louver front plate, Console seat cushion, 96CE seats with black custom Sheepskins, ss billet catch can,Viper remote entry/alarm,Cragar Rear Louvers,LED side louver lights, Dewitts Radiator with SPAL fans and a Woods 160 T-Stat 90 RED/BLACK #2794. 4L60e Automatic Stage V by RPM Transmission, TCI Dedicated TCM, OBX Stainless Headers, Corsa Exhaust, SAN Secondaries and Haibeck PROM, Exotic Muscle Coil overs, LED Interior Lights, LED Tail Lights, LED Headlights, 94 Sport seats with black custom Sheepskins , Cragar rear louvers, GS Front calipers, Banski Trailing arms, APSIS Carbon Fiber steering wheel, Front and Rear Baer Eradispeeds, DRLs, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension), Dewitt's Raditor with Dual SPAL fans and a Haibeck 170 T-Stat 11 RED/GREY CTS-V

09-09-2011	#5
tomtom72 Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Jacksonville, FL USA Posts: 4,645	Re: removing the secondaries a compelling story Jez, that stinks Daryll! Pardon me while I reach for the bourbon to kill the pain. Okay I got a question.......awe come on you knew this was coming....... The only stress that I can identify is the suction caused by an intake stroke when the butterfly is closed......which is almost all the time if you live where I do....maybe I better start driving around in 2nd and leave it at 4th till I get to WV..........I mean how could this not happen, right? signed: the lost grasshopper __________________ 1990 ZR-1, Black/grey, #2233, stock. ZR-1 Net Reg Founding Member #316 & NCM member

09-09-2011	#6
GOLDCYLON Join Date: May 2007 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 9,155	Re: removing the secondaries a compelling story Must be heavy throttle syndrome. __________________ GOLDCYLON - 91 ZR-1 #2014 GOLDCYLON - 90 ZR-1 #2794, 4L60e (Formerly Schrade's) GOLDCYLON - 11 CTS-V Arizona State Director 91 WHITE/BLACK #2014. 380 P&P&PCed,Ported Heads, Jeal Long tubes, Corsa Exhaust/FIKSE FM-5s /LED TLs, LED Headlights, Front Wilwood 6 piston narrowlite calipers and rear Wilwood caliper street shop mod,CNCed Coolant Pipes,TPI Cvr,Filter cover,Stainless Bolts, DRM/DOM PROM /ZFDOC mod build #102,DRLs,BMAD with stainless Debris Screen,Coplan Air Blaster, Pioneer APP Radio 4,Brey-Krause HB,Sub Bar,Fire extinguisher seat mount,DRM Coilovers,LEDs everywhere,Compass mirror (orange),V1 DIC hidden display, Homelink sun visor, Carbon Fiber top x3 and APSIS Carbon Fiber interior, APSIS CF Steering Wheel/NAPA Leather, Banski trailing arms, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension) ZFDoc drive shaft safety loop, raptor shift light (orange),AO engineering louver front plate, Console seat cushion, 96CE seats with black custom Sheepskins, ss billet catch can,Viper remote entry/alarm,Cragar Rear Louvers,LED side louver lights, Dewitts Radiator with SPAL fans and a Woods 160 T-Stat 90 RED/BLACK #2794. 4L60e Automatic Stage V by RPM Transmission, TCI Dedicated TCM, OBX Stainless Headers, Corsa Exhaust, SAN Secondaries and Haibeck PROM, Exotic Muscle Coil overs, LED Interior Lights, LED Tail Lights, LED Headlights, 94 Sport seats with black custom Sheepskins , Cragar rear louvers, GS Front calipers, Banski Trailing arms, APSIS Carbon Fiber steering wheel, Front and Rear Baer Eradispeeds, DRLs, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension), Dewitt's Raditor with Dual SPAL fans and a Haibeck 170 T-Stat 11 RED/GREY CTS-V

09-09-2011	#2
FU Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Found Member Posts: 4,346	Re: removing the secondaries a compelling story Correctamundo. We don't need no stinkin secondaries ! Yank them out and plug 'em up. __________________ Frank Urbo. NCM Lifetime member # 982 Registry Founding # 237