Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

urock · 10-10-2022

Hello everyone,

I'm from Germany and unfortunately I'm not yet an owner of a Corvette.
For quite some time now I'm on the lookout for 1996 C4 LT4, but those are quite rare around here.But recently I stumbled upon a ZR-1 in Austria, not very far away from me, which aroused my interest and a few days ago I could take a closer look at the car.
Since the car isn't in the best condition and I have no previous experience with C4s or ZR-1s I hope, that some of you could give me your opinion on the car and what you think it would be worth.

It is a 1990 ZR-1, that was first registered in Switzerland. In the ad the milage was declared with 110000 km but, but actually its over 110000 miles, not kilometers, so thats over 60% more than advertised.

The seller is a small used car dealer in Austria. He said, that the car had probably two previous owners in Switzerland but could provide almost no papers, that document the history of the car. He has also no maintenance records.

In the mid 90s the body of the car was modified by a swiss company called Nyffenegger. It got a bodykit with a front and rear bumper, side skirts, rear spoiler, the hood got fake louvers over the wheel housings and the crease along the middle of the hood was filled.
The car was also repainted with a Honda color called "Black Currant Pearl". The orignial color was black.

The car has a Corsa exhaust, Bilstein shockabsorbers and Sparco seats.
There is no paperwork for those modifications or the changes to the body, which could be a problem for the registration in Germany.

...

urock · 10-10-2022

When I took a closer look at the car I noticed the following things:

Exterior
- the front bumper is broken in multiple areas and has more smaller cracks

- on the underside of the front bumper and a plate was glued together and those two parts are separating

- the rear bumper is broken where the license plate lights are located and it has more cracks in the center below the license plate (I have no good pictures of this)
- the rear bumper appears to have quite large holes where the belt line molding is attached

- the hood has very deep cracks around the headlights. The cracks are several millimeters deep and the cracked layer is delaminating from the layer below. I could not tell, if the cracked material is paint and filler or if the material of the hood is also cracked.

- there are more cracks in the hood around the fake louvers

- the right headlight housing has a dent or broken off part

- the left front wheel house appears to be broken in the forward area

- the weather stripping around the doors seemed quite worn, but acording to the seller they are still watertight. I didn't notice any traces of water on the inside or moldy smell
- the windshield has some delamination around the edge, but not much
- the transparent roof appears to be in good condition
- the grating below the windshield on the passenger side is slightly damaged
- the belt line on the front bumper is in the style of the facelift and doesn't match the rest of the 1990 belt line

...

urock · 10-10-2022

Engine bay
- brown puddles under I think the fuel injector housings or maybe the air intake plenum. I don't have pictures of this
- the right forward area of the engine block seemed to be quite a bit dirtier than the rest of the block
- some of the pipes around air intake have broken screw tabs

- the air filter housing is cracked on the right side and it is attached to the duct with a piece of sheet metal and screws on both sides

- something was rubbing against the upper left control arm

Interior
- the steering column doesn't wiggle
- the seats are not movable and mounted to far back for me. I couldn't tell, if the mounting brackets are adjustable in any way
- on the steering column, behind the turn signal lever, there seems to be missing a cover and cables are dangling out

- the ignition switch comes out when you try to pull the key out
- the carpet under the pedals is ripped or rubbed through

- the original radio doesn't exist and was replaced with a Blaupunkt radio, that is too small for the radio bay
- the ride mode selector has no function because of the Bilstein shocks
- the 3-point safety belts and seats don't match. Because of the high sidewalls of the seats the waist belt fits ver loose and it is difficult to fasten the belt buckle

Wheels/Tires
- the wheels have scratches all around the outer edges
- the tires were produced in 2014 and have cracks in the treads

- the tires have flat spots, probably from being parked to long. This results in vibrations and noise during driving

Other
- I didn't notice any strange noises from the engine, appart from a squaking belt, but I might have missed something
- the ABS is working
- some unplugged cables and cut off wires dangling around freely in the front and back of the car. This has probably to do with modifications made to the lighting according to austrian regulations. For example the side markers apparently are not legal in Austria and have to be disconnected.
- the spare tire carrier, spare tire and tire bag is missing
- the area where the spare tire carrier bolt should connect to the chassis looks a bit mangled to me

- the wrench for the roof and the lug wrench are present
- the tire jack is missing
- the owners manual is missing
- INFL REST warning light is on

I couldn't take a good look at the underside of the car and don't know, if there is any visible leakage or if the frame rails are straight.
I also forgot to check, if the pop up headlights are working and probably forgot to check many other things.

I'm looking for a car for driving and not a trailer queen and I would also like do some of the wrenching myself.
Should I buy the car I would probably like to replace the damaged rear and front bumper with unmodified parts, remove the rear spoiler and side skirts, repair or replace the hood, depending on how severe the damage is, and all this would probably result in repainting the whole car or parts of it.
I think the car needs a new set of tires and the seat and belt problem would need fixing.

Most ZR-1s around here are red 1990s cars and are advertised with prices in the range from 35000? to around 40000?, but at least in the pictures those cars appear to be in much better and unmodified condition and the milage is generally lower. But I don't know, for how much they really sell and most of those cars are listed for many month.
One german classic car magazine (Auto Zeitung Classic Cars 10/2022) lists the C4 ZR-1 with 21800? for good cars and 9200? for restorable cars. In another magazine (Oldtimer Markt Preise 2022) the prices are 12800? for good cars and 5600? for restorable ones.
(Our classic car grades only go from 1 to 5 instead of the six grades, that I found for example at hagerty.com, but I think, that our "Zustandsnote 3" and should be comparable to the condition "Good" and "Zustandsnote 4" would be "Restorable")

The asking price for this car is 25000?, which seems to high for the impression I got from the car.

What is your opinion on the car? And what do you think a reasonable $ price would be on the US market, or in ? if you are familiar with european market?

tiegsd · 10-10-2022

Geez, sure does have a lot of issues. Don't think I'd pay $25k regardless of where it's being sold.

conesare2seconds · 10-10-2022

I would probably hold out for a better example. This one will take much money and time to sort out.

GOLDCYLON · 10-11-2022

My impression is it will take 30k to make it right. If it had a Callaway aerobody kit maybe. It already needs major body repair all over and a repaint.

Then it has over 110k miles, significant interior work, new tires, I'm sure the shocks are the originals. All all of the above for 25k? Sorry no way.

The max that car is worth is 15k and even so I would not touch it. Too many better cars out there for that money.

GC

JT ZR-Won · 10-11-2022

Quote:

Originally Posted by conesare2seconds

I would probably hold out for a better example. This one will take much money and time to sort out.

Much agreed on that.

Jay

DRM500RUBYZR-1 · 10-11-2022

There are many far better cars available, if not over there already, easily shipped from the US, to be even considering that car.
As said by another, let the condition of the car speak to how it has been maintained.
May it rest in peace.
Best of luck in your search!

Marty

1977CamaroZ28 · 10-11-2022

Forget this project!! Like all the answers you have here the car, inevitably, has not easy solution... First, what you can see inside, outside and in the engine bay. And second, what you can't see inside engine, ZF Transmission, differential, electronics, wires...

Basically you must remake ALL the car from frame to final exterior paint!! Don't worth it.

Really, I think you can find better units in Europe or USA market with less money that you would spend on this project.

Come on!! I'm sure your future ZR-1 is waiting you where you don't think of.

Mystic ZR-1 · 10-11-2022

Forget it!
It wouldn't even make a good parts car...

10-10-2022	#1
urock Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Germany Posts: 4	Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 Hello everyone, I'm from Germany and unfortunately I'm not yet an owner of a Corvette. For quite some time now I'm on the lookout for 1996 C4 LT4, but those are quite rare around here.But recently I stumbled upon a ZR-1 in Austria, not very far away from me, which aroused my interest and a few days ago I could take a closer look at the car. Since the car isn't in the best condition and I have no previous experience with C4s or ZR-1s I hope, that some of you could give me your opinion on the car and what you think it would be worth. It is a 1990 ZR-1, that was first registered in Switzerland. In the ad the milage was declared with 110000 km but, but actually its over 110000 miles, not kilometers, so thats over 60% more than advertised. The seller is a small used car dealer in Austria. He said, that the car had probably two previous owners in Switzerland but could provide almost no papers, that document the history of the car. He has also no maintenance records. In the mid 90s the body of the car was modified by a swiss company called Nyffenegger. It got a bodykit with a front and rear bumper, side skirts, rear spoiler, the hood got fake louvers over the wheel housings and the crease along the middle of the hood was filled. The car was also repainted with a Honda color called "Black Currant Pearl". The orignial color was black. The car has a Corsa exhaust, Bilstein shockabsorbers and Sparco seats. There is no paperwork for those modifications or the changes to the body, which could be a problem for the registration in Germany. ...

10-10-2022	#2
urock Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Germany Posts: 4	Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 When I took a closer look at the car I noticed the following things: Exterior - the front bumper is broken in multiple areas and has more smaller cracks - on the underside of the front bumper and a plate was glued together and those two parts are separating - the rear bumper is broken where the license plate lights are located and it has more cracks in the center below the license plate (I have no good pictures of this) - the rear bumper appears to have quite large holes where the belt line molding is attached - the hood has very deep cracks around the headlights. The cracks are several millimeters deep and the cracked layer is delaminating from the layer below. I could not tell, if the cracked material is paint and filler or if the material of the hood is also cracked. - there are more cracks in the hood around the fake louvers - the right headlight housing has a dent or broken off part - the left front wheel house appears to be broken in the forward area - the weather stripping around the doors seemed quite worn, but acording to the seller they are still watertight. I didn't notice any traces of water on the inside or moldy smell - the windshield has some delamination around the edge, but not much - the transparent roof appears to be in good condition - the grating below the windshield on the passenger side is slightly damaged - the belt line on the front bumper is in the style of the facelift and doesn't match the rest of the 1990 belt line ...

10-10-2022	#3
urock Join Date: Oct 2022 Location: Germany Posts: 4	Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 Engine bay - brown puddles under I think the fuel injector housings or maybe the air intake plenum. I don't have pictures of this - the right forward area of the engine block seemed to be quite a bit dirtier than the rest of the block - some of the pipes around air intake have broken screw tabs - the air filter housing is cracked on the right side and it is attached to the duct with a piece of sheet metal and screws on both sides - something was rubbing against the upper left control arm Interior - the steering column doesn't wiggle - the seats are not movable and mounted to far back for me. I couldn't tell, if the mounting brackets are adjustable in any way - on the steering column, behind the turn signal lever, there seems to be missing a cover and cables are dangling out - the ignition switch comes out when you try to pull the key out - the carpet under the pedals is ripped or rubbed through - the original radio doesn't exist and was replaced with a Blaupunkt radio, that is too small for the radio bay - the ride mode selector has no function because of the Bilstein shocks - the 3-point safety belts and seats don't match. Because of the high sidewalls of the seats the waist belt fits ver loose and it is difficult to fasten the belt buckle Wheels/Tires - the wheels have scratches all around the outer edges - the tires were produced in 2014 and have cracks in the treads - the tires have flat spots, probably from being parked to long. This results in vibrations and noise during driving Other - I didn't notice any strange noises from the engine, appart from a squaking belt, but I might have missed something - the ABS is working - some unplugged cables and cut off wires dangling around freely in the front and back of the car. This has probably to do with modifications made to the lighting according to austrian regulations. For example the side markers apparently are not legal in Austria and have to be disconnected. - the spare tire carrier, spare tire and tire bag is missing - the area where the spare tire carrier bolt should connect to the chassis looks a bit mangled to me - the wrench for the roof and the lug wrench are present - the tire jack is missing - the owners manual is missing - INFL REST warning light is on I couldn't take a good look at the underside of the car and don't know, if there is any visible leakage or if the frame rails are straight. I also forgot to check, if the pop up headlights are working and probably forgot to check many other things. I'm looking for a car for driving and not a trailer queen and I would also like do some of the wrenching myself. Should I buy the car I would probably like to replace the damaged rear and front bumper with unmodified parts, remove the rear spoiler and side skirts, repair or replace the hood, depending on how severe the damage is, and all this would probably result in repainting the whole car or parts of it. I think the car needs a new set of tires and the seat and belt problem would need fixing. Most ZR-1s around here are red 1990s cars and are advertised with prices in the range from 35000? to around 40000?, but at least in the pictures those cars appear to be in much better and unmodified condition and the milage is generally lower. But I don't know, for how much they really sell and most of those cars are listed for many month. One german classic car magazine (Auto Zeitung Classic Cars 10/2022) lists the C4 ZR-1 with 21800? for good cars and 9200? for restorable cars. In another magazine (Oldtimer Markt Preise 2022) the prices are 12800? for good cars and 5600? for restorable ones. (Our classic car grades only go from 1 to 5 instead of the six grades, that I found for example at hagerty.com, but I think, that our "Zustandsnote 3" and should be comparable to the condition "Good" and "Zustandsnote 4" would be "Restorable") The asking price for this car is 25000?, which seems to high for the impression I got from the car. What is your opinion on the car? And what do you think a reasonable $ price would be on the US market, or in ? if you are familiar with european market?

10-10-2022	#4
tiegsd Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: West Chester, PA Posts: 378	Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 Geez, sure does have a lot of issues. Don't think I'd pay $25k regardless of where it's being sold. __________________ 1990 Black/Black ZR-1 #1155 1993 White/Red coupe (Regrettably sold)

10-10-2022	#5
conesare2seconds Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Greater St. Louis Posts: 490	Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 I would probably hold out for a better example. This one will take much money and time to sort out.

10-11-2022	#6
GOLDCYLON Join Date: May 2007 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 9,155	Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 My impression is it will take 30k to make it right. If it had a Callaway aerobody kit maybe. It already needs major body repair all over and a repaint. Then it has over 110k miles, significant interior work, new tires, I'm sure the shocks are the originals. All all of the above for 25k? Sorry no way. The max that car is worth is 15k and even so I would not touch it. Too many better cars out there for that money. GC __________________ GOLDCYLON - 91 ZR-1 #2014 GOLDCYLON - 90 ZR-1 #2794, 4L60e (Formerly Schrade's) GOLDCYLON - 11 CTS-V Arizona State Director 91 WHITE/BLACK #2014. 380 P&P&PCed,Ported Heads, Jeal Long tubes, Corsa Exhaust/FIKSE FM-5s /LED TLs, LED Headlights, Front Wilwood 6 piston narrowlite calipers and rear Wilwood caliper street shop mod,CNCed Coolant Pipes,TPI Cvr,Filter cover,Stainless Bolts, DRM/DOM PROM /ZFDOC mod build #102,DRLs,BMAD with stainless Debris Screen,Coplan Air Blaster, Pioneer APP Radio 4,Brey-Krause HB,Sub Bar,Fire extinguisher seat mount,DRM Coilovers,LEDs everywhere,Compass mirror (orange),V1 DIC hidden display, Homelink sun visor, Carbon Fiber top x3 and APSIS Carbon Fiber interior, APSIS CF Steering Wheel/NAPA Leather, Banski trailing arms, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension) ZFDoc drive shaft safety loop, raptor shift light (orange),AO engineering louver front plate, Console seat cushion, 96CE seats with black custom Sheepskins, ss billet catch can,Viper remote entry/alarm,Cragar Rear Louvers,LED side louver lights, Dewitts Radiator with SPAL fans and a Woods 160 T-Stat 90 RED/BLACK #2794. 4L60e Automatic Stage V by RPM Transmission, TCI Dedicated TCM, OBX Stainless Headers, Corsa Exhaust, SAN Secondaries and Haibeck PROM, Exotic Muscle Coil overs, LED Interior Lights, LED Tail Lights, LED Headlights, 94 Sport seats with black custom Sheepskins , Cragar rear louvers, GS Front calipers, Banski Trailing arms, APSIS Carbon Fiber steering wheel, Front and Rear Baer Eradispeeds, DRLs, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension), Dewitt's Raditor with Dual SPAL fans and a Haibeck 170 T-Stat 11 RED/GREY CTS-V

10-11-2022	#8
DRM500RUBYZR-1 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mullica Hill, New Jersey Posts: 2,592	Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 There are many far better cars available, if not over there already, easily shipped from the US, to be even considering that car. As said by another, let the condition of the car speak to how it has been maintained. May it rest in peace. Best of luck in your search! Marty

10-11-2022	#9
1977CamaroZ28 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Jerica - SPAIN Posts: 314	Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 Forget this project!! Like all the answers you have here the car, inevitably, has not easy solution... First, what you can see inside, outside and in the engine bay. And second, what you can't see inside engine, ZF Transmission, differential, electronics, wires... Basically you must remake ALL the car from frame to final exterior paint!! Don't worth it. Really, I think you can find better units in Europe or USA market with less money that you would spend on this project. Come on!! I'm sure your future ZR-1 is waiting you where you don't think of. __________________ 1.990 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 #2342 - Black/Black - March 1.990 - OBX Headers and OBX complete Exhaust Line (No Cats). K&N Air Filter with open Air Box. Jerry's Gaskets Silicone Air Duct. DeWitts Two Row Pro Series Radiator. Samco's Hose Coolant Kit. ECM/EPROM Improved. MSD Spark Plug Wires 8,5mm Super Conductor. EBC Brakes YellowStuff with EBC D-Series Rotors and Raybestos hoses.

10-11-2022	#10
Mystic ZR-1 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mystic CT Posts: 2,633	Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1 Forget it! It wouldn't even make a good parts car...