NO START on 2 ZR-1's

[karlaw]

Red 1990. Starting over again, or should I say WILL THESE CARS EVER START AGAIN.
On my NO START cars, on my red car I got battery charged up in the car for 24 hrs, then I jump in with the key, it cranks over 1-2 turns and fires right up ! But after 10 seconds it dies. This was after sitting for 6 months.
So then I try again, all dead, then I press that little button on ignition switch...the key release button, and then the starter connects and cranks over again.
But nothing fires. So I now learning the key switch release button has to be wiggled at same time as turning key in order to get starter to engage. But engine still won't fire again.
Anyone else experience this ? Also the speedometer /gas gauge not lighting , but as the key turns there is a quick flash of the fuel gauge for 1 second.
Should I be changing out the ignition switch before I go any further in trying to start this beast ? Is that a hard job ?

Is it a special rare switch? I have a 1993 Cadillac STS here, switch looks same on outside. I am thinking "maybe key switch not grounding properly". Is that possible ?
I originally thought the clutch safety switch was shot, but it seems just fine now.
Last year when my mechanic friend got it running, it seemed to idle smooth, and rev up, but took it for drive and the car had about 75-100 hp tops. Then the car went back to No Start

Would a bad fuel regulator cause low power or no start ? I don't know where the regulator is located or how to check.
I put a fuel pressure gauge on the top front RH rail, and it's showing above 50 lbs, so I assume fuel pumps are ok.

Black/black 1990 zr1, similar problem.
Car sat for 3 years after a EX girlfriend stole my lifted Duramax, ..I chased her with my Dinan BMW X5, caught up to her and got ahead 4 car lengths in light traffic. I step out of BMW and walk back towards the Duramax when suddenly she floorboards 500 HP and crosses 2 lanes chasing me on foot, I got to the side of the BMW when the crazed beotch hit the BMW and myself, and hit and run. My body imprint caved in front door in U shape and fender bent car frame from my body slam. X5 was a write off , as was I.
6 months and several ambulance trips, I got home to find house completely robbed, and 2 show bikes gone, and a safe full of cash missing, garage tools gone, cargo trailer gone.
Anyways After 3 years I trying to walk now, and need help with getting these 2 cars to run on a very tiny budget. I need to sell them off, and my 930 Porsche, GTX, Escalade, etc, but need them to start and run.
Last summer, Black car starts up ok, runs idling for 10 min, then dies when I am away from car. Appears bone dry on gas, so pour in 3 gals, car always cranks over fine, but never fires. Replaced 2 fuel pumps using a new one for a 454 fuel injected Suburban from GM, and the other with proper part number from parts store. Easy to install going down thru gas cap area.
Changed fuel filter under passenger door frame rail, put fuel pressure gauge on top of engine, got 52 psi going to fuel rails.
But after 100 attempts, No Start, not even fire. Pulled 8 spark plugs, the spark seemed ok, but I thought Maybe a bit weaker, but looked same as other car.
So got spark and 50psi fuel to top of engine, but nothing, car not fires.
I have even swapped ECM 's between cars, no difference.

A few years back I had a 1990 c4 base corvette. I stopped at his shop one day, car wouldn't start again. This guy happened to be a master mechanic for electronic issues. Left the car for a few weeks, he was stumped. Then finally he soldered in a extra Ground Cable to ecm box. Problem cured. Unfortunately, I never watched where he soldered grounding cable to, and he moved to Calgary south area for movie industry.

Please, any ideas ?


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[RICHARD TILL]

Yep, Good luck and hunt down the "crazed beotch" and kill her with no mercy.

[karlaw]

Don't want to kill her, rather get my 2 cars to run first !
Then I can drive in style, hunt, and shoot in hip joint, foot, ankle, lower back, and pelvis.
Then I can drive away in the ZR-1 with a really big smile ! CHEERS !


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[QB93Z]

You have a lot going on with two ZR-1's with problems. Start with the Red 1990. You may have a VATS (Vehicle Anti-Theft System) problem. The computer may not be reading the chip in the ignition key properly during start. Or the ignition switch has been damaged. Are you sure you are using the correct key in the correct car? Been there done that.

The "starts then dies" can be an indication of a failed primary fuel pump, but it depends on the timing. From a cold start the car may run for 1 or 2 minutes then die. On a warm start, the engine will stall after 3-4 seconds.

The gauges going off and on could indicate an ignition switch problem and/or an electrical ground problem in the engine control circuits. The steps below may help diagnose this.

The ignition switch in Run, engine not started should turn on all the accessories, the dash and instrument cluster and briefly light all the indicators on the Driver Information Console. Also Key On/Engine Off energizes both fuel pumps so you can listen for the pumps running or put a gauge on the fuel rail and check the pumps without starting the car. Although it isn't an issue right now, Key On/Engine Off also energizes the Secondary System Vacuum Pump. If the engine has not been run for a few minutes, you should hear the Vacuum Pump run for a short time then stop.

Put the key in Run but not started and then wiggle the key slightly to see if the symptoms are repeatable.

Has this car been worked on or modified before all the other drama that you have gone through?

Jim

[orthodoct]

Hi Karlaw. I also sold mine because of the damned PASS key system. The pellet in the key has a specific electrical resistance. Measure it with an ohmmeter. You can find the key number that corresponds to that resistance and order a bypass for it. Ecklers, Corvette America, etc. all sell them. The dealer ended up changing out three lock cylinders before I figured out what was wrong at $400 a pop. In the FSM, if nothing else checks out, te default is to change the ignition lock cylinder. DON'T DO THAT!! Mine would lock me out of the system for several hours stranding me and once the time had elapsed, would start like nothing happened. If you buy the bypass (about $50 if I recall) your present ignition key will work just fine. That PASS system is a royal PITA!

[orthodoct]

Meant ALMOST sold mine!

[karlaw]

I am not aware of anything worked on, for the red car. Except for alternator replacement a few years back. It run perfect except for one day I drive to town, park for 1/2 hr on hotter summer day, then was a no start, meaning the starter not engage.
Tried boosting, pumped clutch pedal, wiggled wires, then returned 3 hrs later and it started right up.
Drove 10 min to house, shut it off, then no starter.
Car ended up sitting for 2-3 yrs, while I would occasionally keep trying to start.
Then last summer had a mechanic friend come to house. After trying the clutch switch, pulling spark plugs and replace, and trying to find scan codes, he finally got it started, but we never figured out the exact problem.
The mechanic took the car to his house, it run fairly smooth, but had maybe 100 hp. I had him replace the clutch assembly, and he also cut out the cat converters......the no cats did not make any difference for power, and for some reason the one exhaust pipe never got properly welded up.
The car was starting most of time, meaning the starter was engaging, but again had intermittent starter.
We located the purple wire to starter and put a jumper to positive battery, car turned over by jumping, then would start and run poorly.
I do have the GM vats "INTERAGATOR " bypass box, we did try using it, but again starting became intermittent. And now months later after car sat since last October, I went out , charged battery 2 days, then jumped in, pushed clutch down, and the car starts immediately but dies in 3-4 seconds. This was WITHOUT the Vats bypass box.
It was then I kept wiggling the key switch and getting intermittent starter engagement, but car not fire. When I did get starter cranking, I let clutch out and cranking stopped, and while still holding key non stop I let clutch in and out and it seemed clutch switch was doing its job ok.
I will be checking the fuel gauge display closer, but I think it just goes blank when key is ON position.
I got to thinking about when I swapped ECM's between both cars......I never swapped keys to match.
I know from can am quads, the ECM's and key go together as a matched pair. Anybody know if the ZR-1 key has to be matched to the ECM ??


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[QB93Z]

Based on that description, I suggest replacing the starter motor. Then when you can start the car reliably, you can begin diagnosing the engine performance problem. You have been chasing ghosts. the key, the purple wire, the clutch, the exhaust, etc have nothing to do with your starter problem.

If you get it to start properly, but it stops running in a short period on time. you have a failing or failed primary fuel pump. BUT the fuel pump issue has nothing to do with the no-start behavior.

You need to work on one thing at a time to sort this out.

Jim

[Bruce]

I had a similar problem with mine. Got it home and went to start it, and it was dead, no starter solenoid click, no nothing. Pulled out the GM service manuals and went through it. I found that someone had put in a 'security alarm system' at some stage. The alarm system had a relay that disconnected the start relay. That relay was poked. So I just bypassed it and never had a problem again. You do need a full set of service manuals though to work through.

Bummer about the ex.

But just changing the subject - I'll take the 930. Thanks

[ZBrink]

Originally Posted by Bruce

I had a similar problem with mine. Got it home and went to start it, and it was dead, no starter solenoid click, no nothing. Pulled out the GM service manuals and went through it. I found that someone had put in a 'security alarm system' at some stage. The alarm system had a relay that disconnected the start relay. That relay was poked. So I just bypassed it and never had a problem again. You do need a full set of service manuals though to work through.

Bummer about the ex.

But just changing the subject - I'll take the 930. Thanks

Bruce, I'm currently stranded 2k miles from home in a '90 ZR-1 with a no crank situation. Any ideas on what to look for in terms of a former, aftermarket alarm? Someone installed a small red light and switch in the dash on mine in a location where I cannot reach behind it to trace wires. I can access under the driver's dash and the passenger kick panel.