Oh the Shame... Local CarShow, Topless Girlfriend let's me down...

[tccrab]

Took the "Girlfriend" to the local Carshow this evening.
Not a big deal, maybe 40 cars or so but can't show her because they have a stupid '74 or older rule.
No biggie, don't want my "World Class Lady Friend" parked next to an old junker anyway (and there were quite a few "Trailer Park Queens" on display).*sheesh*
Found a parking place right next ot the show area, figured she'd get attention there.
"Girlfriend" had top off and windows down and sporting a fresh coat of Meguires Gold Class and tire shine. She looked like a 18 year old $65k Super Car should.
After about an hour of walking around and checking out the hot rods, and a few junkers (what are people thinking these days???) it was time to go home and finish off the evening.
I get in, turn the key and.... (drum roll)... the distinct sound of the dual mass flywheel rattling because of a missfire.
Not a "Popped Off the Map sensor hose", but a true honest to gosh misfire.
*sh!t*
I've heard it before, I know what it sounds like.
It cleared up about half a block out of the parking lot, but by then it was too late. My exit sounded like a damn Honda Accord with a fart can muffler.
*double sh!t*
About a mile from home it started missing again, and she sounded like she was only running on 6 cylinders as I pulled her into the garage.
About 3 beers, errr.., an hour later, she starts and idles fine.
Gonna have to get out the FSM and start some serious diagnosis, but the first thing I'm going to check is the ECM connectors. Make sure every lead is getting good connection. She was behaving as if some of the inectors weren't getting the signal to fire. She wasn't running rich, at least I couldn't smell gas, and she wasn't running hot.
The fact that it was working and then not working seems to me to be an electrical fault and not a bad injector or coil pack or f*ing whatever.

Ideas, anybody, please?

TomC


p.s., saving the funny sh!t for last.
Saw a really pretty white '69 Camaro with 427 badges on it's front fenders with the hood open. Looking in I expect to see a big block, but instead I see a fuel injected small block with aluminum heads. I ask the guy, 427? Is it a stroker? (thinking to myself, it's gotta have paper thin walls).
He says, (emphatically) "NOPE. It's a True Chevy 427 Small Block, they only made a few."
I say, "That's funny, it's the only one I've ever seen, is it a COPO?"
He says, "Yup, they only made a few".
Oooookkkkkay, time to move on...

[GOLDCYLON]

Originally Posted by tccrab

Took the "Girlfriend" to the local Carshow this evening.
Not a big deal, maybe 40 cars or so but can't show her because they have a stupid '74 or older rule.
No biggie, don't want my "World Class Lady Friend" parked next to an old junker anyway (and there were quite a few "Trailer Park Queens" on display).*sheesh*
Found a parking place right next ot the show area, figured she'd get attention there.
"Girlfriend" had top off and windows down and sporting a fresh coat of Meguires Gold Class and tire shine. She looked like a 18 year old $65k Super Car should.
After about an hour of walking around and checking out the hot rods, and a few junkers (what are people thinking these days???) it was time to go home and finish off the evening.
I get in, turn the key and.... (drum roll)... the distinct sound of the dual mass flywheel rattling because of a missfire.
Not a "Popped Off the Map sensor hose", but a true honest to gosh misfire.
*sh!t*
I've heard it before, I know what it sounds like.
It cleared up about half a block out of the parking lot, but by then it was too late. My exit sounded like a damn Honda Accord with a fart can muffler.
*double sh!t*
About a mile from home it started missing again, and she sounded like she was only running on 6 cylinders as I pulled her into the garage.
About 3 beers, errr.., an hour later, she starts and idles fine.
Gonna have to get out the FSM and start some serious diagnosis, but the first thing I'm going to check is the ECM connectors. Make sure every lead is getting good connection. She was behaving as if some of the inectors weren't getting the signal to fire. She wasn't running rich, at least I couldn't smell gas, and she wasn't running hot.
The fact that it was working and then not working seems to me to be an electrical fault and not a bad injector or coil pack or f*ing whatever.

Ideas, anybody, please?

TomC


p.s., saving the funny sh!t for last.
Saw a really pretty white '69 Camaro with 427 badges on it's front fenders with the hood open. Looking in I expect to see a big block, but instead I see a fuel injected small block with aluminum heads. I ask the guy, 427? Is it a stroker? (thinking to myself, it's gotta have paper thin walls).
He says, (emphatically) "NOPE. It's a True Chevy 427 Small Block, they only made a few."
I say, "That's funny, it's the only one I've ever seen, is it a COPO?"
He says, "Yup, they only made a few".
Oooookkkkkay, time to move on...

Tom any Codes??

[tccrab]

Originally Posted by GOLDCYLON

Tom any Codes??

Darryl:

No codes.
SES not lit.
Seems to run just fine now.
In my 20+ years of messing around with high end laboratory analysers (magnetic sector mass spectromters) I've learned that it's nearly impossible to fix something that won't stay broke.
Intermittent electrical problems are the absolute worst bastages to diagnose and repair.

*BIG sigh*

TomC

[GOLDCYLON]

Originally Posted by tccrab

Darryl:

No codes.
SES not lit.
Seems to run just fine now.
In my 20+ years of messing around with high end laboratory analysers (magnetic sector mass spectromters) I've learned that it's nearly impossible to fix something that won't stay broke.
Intermittent electrical problems are the absolute worst bastages to diagnose and repair.

*BIG sigh*

TomC

I know the feeling I call these little life anomalies Querktrons. Which means it just happens, never repeats itself and keeps you guessing until total failure. Or you die whichever comes first

The only solution is to go to a 415.





Tom, just drive it until it craps out again. Hopefully it becomes perm. Well not that permanent.

[cuisinartvette]

No real advice, all I can offer is I experienced something similar although not quite as bad. Clips on TPS sensor were fragged by whatever monkey had the plenum off before I got the car - connector eventually worked its way loose (even though visually it appeared to be tight) . Would be fine and then occasionally get a hesitation upon light accel, slight miss also. Push it in and all was well

Found that one by accident.

[95ZR1#418]

Hi Tom-

I went through some real nightmares of diagnosis. On /Off as far as running good, too much to mention here. I'll say this, after spending a few hundred with "Harmen" Killebrew on the phone- he hadn't a clue, as well as all the support of the ZR-1 Net. I brought the car out to Portland OR. Jeff & Tom Wong had it on the dyno & some Frankenstein instrument for most of a full day. They found the problem with mine which was eye opening across the ZR-1 group, fixed it and sent me on my way for peanuts. I was really shocked at the price, it didn't seem fair to them but, I ran with it...

If it seems beyond you, after trying everything anyone can suggest, you need to see either Jeff or Marc Haibeck whichever is closer. Sometimes it just has to be wired up to instrumentation to find the problem. The sooner-the-better..

[-=Jeff=-]

Originally Posted by 95ZR1#418

Hi Tom-

I went through some real nightmares of diagnosis. On /Off as far as running good, too much to mention here. I'll say this, after spending a few hundred with "Harmen" Killebrew on the phone- he hadn't a clue, as well as all the support of the ZR-1 Net. I brought the car out to Portland OR. Jeff & Tom Wong had it on the dyno & some Frankenstein instrument for most of a full day. They found the problem with mine which was eye opening across the ZR-1 group, fixed it and sent me on my way for peanuts. I was really shocked at the price, it didn't seem fair to them but, I ran with it...

If it seems beyond you, after trying everything anyone can suggest, you need to see either Jeff or Marc Haibeck whichever is closer. Sometimes it just has to be wired up to instrumentation to find the problem. The sooner-the-better..

so what was the problem?

[tccrab]

Originally Posted by -=Jeff=-

so what was the problem?

=Jeff=

No problem found yet, although reading your other posts it sounds as if we are chasing a similar gremlin.
I've cleaned the battery terminals and reseated the ECM plugs.
I've driven it a couple of times since the event and I've not had any problems since, but to be honest, I've not driven it far from home.
I've driven it long enought to get the engine up to operating temp and to kick in the secondaries for a couple of 1st and 2nd gear blasts.
She seems to be running fine.
*sigh*


If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that my problem was clearly electrical/ignition/heat related.
Maybe ECM or coils.
Hard to nail it down, and I don't want to just throw the checkbook at the problem. It would be much nicer (and cheaper) to have a failed unit to diagnose and replace.
I replaced the original ECM with a GM remaned unit when I replaced my fuel injectors two years ago. I'd like to think that it's not the culprit, but I don't have any way of telling for sure just yet.
The adivce I've gotten from good 'ol Jeffie and others is to just drive it until it breaks.
Much easier to fix it when it stays broke.
Sorry I can't be more help.

Tom

[-=Jeff=-]

Thanks Tom,

I was directing the question more at 95ZR1#418

since he said the were shocked with what they found..