Car acting up........................again.

[Z51JEFF]

Since Ive owned this car 3 times the car wouldn't crank over.So I plugged in a new clutch safety switch,no crank.with the key in the ignition the SECURITY light goes out,VATS good so that leaves the starter.Ive got an NOS starter just would like to know if everything points to a bad starter,the cars only go 20,000 miles but the first time this happened the car had maybe 12,000 miles.Thanks.

[Dynomite]

Originally Posted by Z51JEFF

Since Ive owned this car 3 times the car wouldn't crank over.So I plugged in a new clutch safety switch,no crank.with the key in the ignition the SECURITY light goes out,VATS good so that leaves the starter.Ive got an NOS starter just would like to know if everything points to a bad starter,the cars only go 20,000 miles but the first time this happened the car had maybe 12,000 miles.Thanks.

I have had the same thing happen on a 90' and after I towed it for a start....got home and it fired right up. I would have liked to hot wire the starter (purple wire) when that happens to see if it is the starter or starter ground circuit. Or check that purple wire for 12 volts when I turn the switch to start. I lean toward ground circuit or sticky starter solenoid. Another indication would be if when you turn the ignition key to start do the lights dim for example indicating a current draw to the starter solenoid/starter.

I assume the solenoid does not move (no clicking indicating the Starter Solenoid moved). If the Solenoid clicked/moved...then bad Solenoid contacts or bad connection Battery cable (Positive) to starter/battery or bad ground (Negative) engine to battery.

This will be interesting what you find. And yes...I WILL install a relay in the start circuit of the 90' identical to what I have on the 91'. This is one of those intermittent issues and does sound like poor electrical connections in either the Starter Negative Connections or Starter Positive Connections.

I think it is pretty easy to ungum a gummed up Solenoid and Solenoid Contacts but have never done that on the LT5 Starter.

Starter Relay, Wiring Harness, Battery, and Plugs Tricks
Electrical Ground Connections and Clutch Start Switch Linkage

[WVZR-1]

Originally Posted by Z51JEFF

Since Ive owned this car 3 times the car wouldn't crank over.So I plugged in a new clutch safety switch,no crank.with the key in the ignition the SECURITY light goes out,VATS good so that leaves the starter.Ive got an NOS starter just would like to know if everything points to a bad starter,the cars only go 20,000 miles but the first time this happened the car had maybe 12,000 miles.Thanks.

I always understood that the '90 & '91 experienced this situation sometimes frequently regardless of miles. Some I understand carry a 24" long 1/2" diameter heavy metal rod to "poke at the starter" to get it to crank. Smack it 4 - 5 times life is supposed to get good!

The starter enable relay under left side of dash will sometimes cure the situation and others have modified the starter circuit with a relay of their own to remedy the situation. The '92+ cars have a different starter motor circuit and don't have the pronlems.

Dwight should be able to tell you where to "POKE" !!!

See this single post for a temporary "remedy" - what I want you to see is the comment by James Britt attatched at the end of the post:

http://zr1.net/forum/showpost.php?p=147329&postcount=10

That "remedy" should work every time just like James mentions. I'd keep my NOS starter in the box. If I were to go under the plenum I'd spend probably less than $30 to replace the contacts and other small parts that seem to fix every ND starter out there:

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/CheapTri...shtml#QuickFix

[XfireZ51]

So it looks like Britt is feeding a direct 12v signal to the ECM allowing the starter to engage and bypassing all the potential sources of the voltage drop. When I got my BR ZR, I had the no start situation and I installed a bypass on the clutch switch. I realize about the possible start in gear, but I've driven manuals all my life and my muscle memory always pushes in the clutch and makes certain trans is in neutral prior to ignition. I could have a little plaque made and fixed to the steering wheel I suppose. However, haven't had a no start since. If you ever pull the plenum, take the opportunity to do a starter rebuild. Kits are available pretty cheaply and it takes 30 minutes.

[WVZR-1]

Originally Posted by XfireZ51

So it looks like Britt is feeding a direct 12v signal to the ECM allowing the starter to engage and bypassing all the potential sources of the voltage drop. When I got my BR ZR, I had the no start situation and I installed a bypass on the clutch switch. I realize about the possible start in gear, but I've driven manuals all my life and my muscle memory always pushes in the clutch and makes certain trans is in neutral prior to ignition. I could have a little plaque made and fixed to the steering wheel I suppose. However, haven't had a no start since. If you ever pull the plenum, take the opportunity to do a starter rebuild. Kits are available pretty cheaply and it takes 30 minutes.

I don't see where the ECM is involved in the "temporary crank" procedure. The only mention of the computer at all is just the fact that the starter harness leads are in a conduit that's routed near the computer. The ECM is involved in only the VATS cranking related issues and there's no VATS related issues here at all!

By-passing the clutch safety. Why? If you were that concerned that it was creating a repeated issue then it means the circuit needs attention. If you're not ambitious enough to correct the start enable relay circuit, then carry a short jumper to by-pass the switch if needed.

[Brad Sewell]

Timing is everything... I have been working on my no start the past couple of days.It didn't occur for 6-8 months and now it occurs once every 20 or so starts. The article in Technet says basically the same thing as above.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to safely expose the copper inside the purple wire? I have not been able to find a probe sharp enough to pierce the insulation and I don't really want to strip it and leave it exposed.

Any ideas or proven solutions?

[Z51JEFF]

Thanks for the tips everybody,where can I find a small parts rebuild kit for the starter?

[WVZR-1]

Originally Posted by Z51JEFF

Thanks for the tips everybody,where can I find a small parts rebuild kit for the starter?

Here: http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/densoparts.html

and check the link in the first one I posted. I believe there's other less expensive mentioned and the dimensions of the various are mentioned. There's maybe 6 or so different. I used to know which our car used but I'd have to dig hard for that information now.

[WVZR-1]

Originally Posted by Brad Sewell

Timing is everything... I have been working on my no start the past couple of days.It didn't occur for 6-8 months and now it occurs once every 20 or so starts. The article in Technet says basically the same thing as above.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to safely expose the copper inside the purple wire? I have not been able to find a probe sharp enough to pierce the insulation and I don't really want to strip it and leave it exposed.

Any ideas or proven solutions?

If it's a "high-miler" and I had reason to be under the plenum I'd consider doing the contacts in the starter and a couple other small pieces. There's many Internet tutorials that mention NipponDenso issues and it makes no difference which ND starter on which brand. The one I pointed to is from a "car guy" that was just struggling with a "no start".

The battery needs to be 100% not 97 or 98% - the "no starts" if the battery is weak will generally manifest themselves in a "hot start" situation. Let the car cool and it will again crank. I've never tried to probe or pierce the purple wire but it would seem not that difficult a task. A quality fused test light should provide I would think enough to pierce it.If it's sharp enough to make you "bleed" it should pierce the insulation.

Here's an old post by Jerry that I believe I used many years ago when doing exactly what you're doing. After reading Jerry's open the entire thread and look at the post right after his. I don't know about that being a "fix" but it's from GK!

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/4194782-post11.html

[Dynomite]

Originally Posted by Brad Sewell

Does anyone have a suggestion on how to safely expose the copper inside the purple wire? I have not been able to find a probe sharp enough to pierce the insulation and I don't really want to strip it and leave it exposed.

Any ideas or proven solutions?

Use a sewing needle
Push the sewing needle into or through the wire with a pliers