90-91 vs 92-96 Instrument Clusters

[Ccmano]

Looks like we will have an even better way to address this issue. Bryan will sign up for the forum and participate directly in this (and hopefully other) threads. We will all be able to address questions to him directly.
H


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry

[-=Jeff=-]

Wire changes57007700418__71EF8515-FA58-4732-BE21-2E186DA450B6.JPGIMG_0228.JPG

I also found that the PCB on the 6k and 8k clusters (later years) are the same, even the calibration IC looks the same..

I think with an 8k cal and overlay you could build one from a 6k core


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry

[Ccmano]

Originally Posted by -=Jeff=-

Wire changesAttachment 8958Attachment 8959

I also found that the PCB on the 6k and 8k clusters (later years) are the same, even the calibration IC looks the same..

I think with an 8k cal and overlay you could build one from a 6k core


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry

Jeff,

I believe you are correct. Bryan told me the following earlier today.

“The 8K and 6K needle movements are the same (plus or minus some variance). It's the gauge faces and calibration IC which makes it a 6K or 8K tach.”
Hope this helps.

My soldering skills are probably not up to messing around with the board. I may just leave it alone for the time being.

H

[-=Jeff=-]

So on the later PCB, it is printed on the PCB that the Brake on the overlay is printed as Door ajar.

Door ajar on the overlay is Upshift label on PCB. they must have changed the trace design on the 92-later Clusters.

I still would like to do a custom cluster but retain the LCD panel

[batee]

Hi, everyone:

Thank you for the kind words.


I just wanted to remind everyone that you can find complete wiring diagrams for the instrument panel system and the C68 HVAC system on batee.com, along with troubleshooting procedures straight from the FSM. We have both 90 and 96 online.


Before I started servicing and selling parts for the 90-96 clusters, I did significant research on the various issues they have. We made our own test equipment to drive the 90-96 clusters and which we use to service clusters. Photos got out and I got enough requests to purchase those testers that we now offer them for sale. http://batee.com/9xtest/

The 90-91s do indeed use a different electrical protocol to drive the LCD than the 92-96s used. Therefore they haven't been interchangeable - until now. We have designed an adapter which allows a 92-96 LCD in a 90-91 cluster. Using the same hardware, we should be able to produce something to allow a 90-91 LCD to be used in a 92-96 panel as well. Why? Well, a few years ago, there were no 90-91 panels available, but there was a source of 92-96 panels. So we made an adapter. It's a small microcontroller which takes the place of the LCD connector. It reads the datastream coming from the CCM and generates the correct LCD drive signals for the other style LCD.

The primary issues we see in the repair shop are:

1) LCD is unreadable / blank / displaying garbled info. Sometimes it's the polarizing film, sometimes it's the LCD connector, sometimes it's a broken solder joint at the wiring harness connector, sometimes it's the LCD IC. Rarely do we see a defective LCD that can't be restored, but it happens. Shameless plug: We offer products to fix most of these issues on batee.com.

2) The tachometer is pegging 6K at most engine RPM. This is a common failure point. The white calibration IC fails frequently. The resistor hacks have been online forever, but some people would rather not hack their clusters, so we have developed a replacement IC for either 6K clusters or 8K clusters. They are adjustable to deal with the variances presented by various tach needle movements.

3) A needle other than the tach is reading wrong. We see a few failed meter movements, but for the most part, the issue is a broken sender, shorted wiring, or a sticking needle. Protip: Don't set the cluster on its face while servicing it. The needles push onto the movements and begin to rub on the face of the gauges and appear to "stick". Use a small flat blade screwdriver to pull them away from the gauge, but don't remove them from the needle movement unless you have a guaranteed way to know where to set the needle when you put it back on the movement.

4) Lots of chemicals attack the acrylic plastic on the face of the instrument panel. I've tried polish, but it doesn't seem to help. Keep everything but Windex off of the clear plastic!

5) If your LCD panel hasn't faded yet, take precautions to prevent it from happening to you! It only takes a few minutes of extreme exposure to permanently destroy the polarizing film. Light coming through a garage window, a trouble light rested temporarily on top of the steering wheel, and a 30 minute trip to the drive-in have all been reported causes of the fading. Sunny southern places like Florida, SoCal and Texas see this a lot more frequently than our northern customers. Protip: Carry a towel and throw it over the dash when you're not driving.

6) The bulbs in your cluster are a PC161. Most people who try to source the bulbs from an auto parts store or eBay find that they lock into place in an orientation that doesn't allow the back plastic cover to be installed. We have the correct bulbs needed to be able to install all covers.


I'll check into the issue in the difference between the early and late PC boards. It could be they changed the board, and it could be that they just changed the text on the gauge faces. If they did, then it should be possible to rearrange the wiring harness wires to drive the correct indicator bulbs - if they exist on the new gauge face.



If anyone knows of a source for the partially translucent gauge faces that our instrument panels use, please let me know and we'll start offering them.


You can find more information, as well as parts and service for your ZR-1, at batee.com, including free online instructions and an online video of us demonstrating these repairs and more.

If you are experiencing other electrical problems, please feel free to contact us at service@batee.com. We're always looking for ways to help.

Thank you,
Bryan A. Thompson
Owner, batee.com Corvette Parts and Repair

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Originally Posted by batee

Hi, everyone:

Thank you for the kind words.


I just wanted to remind everyone that you can find complete wiring diagrams for the instrument panel system and the C68 HVAC system on batee.com, along with troubleshooting procedures straight from the FSM. We have both 90 and 96 online.


Before I started servicing and selling parts for the 90-96 clusters, I did significant research on the various issues they have. We made our own test equipment to drive the 90-96 clusters and which we use to service clusters. Photos got out and I got enough requests to purchase those testers that we now offer them for sale. http://batee.com/9xtest/

The 90-91s do indeed use a different electrical protocol to drive the LCD than the 92-96s used. Therefore they haven't been interchangeable - until now. We have designed an adapter which allows a 92-96 LCD in a 90-91 cluster. Using the same hardware, we should be able to produce something to allow a 90-91 LCD to be used in a 92-96 panel as well. Why? Well, a few years ago, there were no 90-91 panels available, but there was a source of 92-96 panels. So we made an adapter. It's a small microcontroller which takes the place of the LCD connector. It reads the datastream coming from the CCM and generates the correct LCD drive signals for the other style LCD.

The primary issues we see in the repair shop are:

1) LCD is unreadable / blank / displaying garbled info. Sometimes it's the polarizing film, sometimes it's the LCD connector, sometimes it's a broken solder joint at the wiring harness connector, sometimes it's the LCD IC. Rarely do we see a defective LCD that can't be restored, but it happens. Shameless plug: We offer products to fix most of these issues on batee.com.

2) The tachometer is pegging 6K at most engine RPM. This is a common failure point. The white calibration IC fails frequently. The resistor hacks have been online forever, but some people would rather not hack their clusters, so we have developed a replacement IC for either 6K clusters or 8K clusters. They are adjustable to deal with the variances presented by various tach needle movements.

3) A needle other than the tach is reading wrong. We see a few failed meter movements, but for the most part, the issue is a broken sender, shorted wiring, or a sticking needle. Protip: Don't set the cluster on its face while servicing it. The needles push onto the movements and begin to rub on the face of the gauges and appear to "stick". Use a small flat blade screwdriver to pull them away from the gauge, but don't remove them from the needle movement unless you have a guaranteed way to know where to set the needle when you put it back on the movement.

4) Lots of chemicals attack the acrylic plastic on the face of the instrument panel. I've tried polish, but it doesn't seem to help. Keep everything but Windex off of the clear plastic!

5) If your LCD panel hasn't faded yet, take precautions to prevent it from happening to you! It only takes a few minutes of extreme exposure to permanently destroy the polarizing film. Light coming through a garage window, a trouble light rested temporarily on top of the steering wheel, and a 30 minute trip to the drive-in have all been reported causes of the fading. Sunny southern places like Florida, SoCal and Texas see this a lot more frequently than our northern customers. Protip: Carry a towel and throw it over the dash when you're not driving.

6) The bulbs in your cluster are a PC161. Most people who try to source the bulbs from an auto parts store or eBay find that they lock into place in an orientation that doesn't allow the back plastic cover to be installed. We have the correct bulbs needed to be able to install all covers.


I'll check into the issue in the difference between the early and late PC boards. It could be they changed the board, and it could be that they just changed the text on the gauge faces. If they did, then it should be possible to rearrange the wiring harness wires to drive the correct indicator bulbs - if they exist on the new gauge face.



If anyone knows of a source for the partially translucent gauge faces that our instrument panels use, please let me know and we'll start offering them.


You can find more information, as well as parts and service for your ZR-1, at batee.com, including free online instructions and an online video of us demonstrating these repairs and more.

If you are experiencing other electrical problems, please feel free to contact us at service@batee.com. We're always looking for ways to help.

Thank you,
Bryan A. Thompson
Owner, batee.com Corvette Parts and Repair

Just a quick note.
Conte's Corvettes has used Bryan's website to help us fix quite a few cars!
His repairs to out of calibration tachs is fast, fairly priced, and very accurate.
Great to have his skill set available to our group and the rest of the Corvette community!

Well done Bryan!

Marty

[-=Jeff=-]

Awesome Bryan,

Thanks for joining and answering questions. looking at your website again, do you offer or have luck with finding LED Bulbs for the 90-96 Cluster?

[batee]

LEDs for the 90-96 clusters are a possibility for us.



For the 84-89s, it was critical that we find a cooler replacement for the factory bulbs, because the clusters were melting internally. This isn't the case for the 90-96s - I've never seen damage caused by a factory bulb.



The largest issue with LEDs is dimmability. They run more efficiently than the bulbs. As a result, they don't dim as completely as the bulbs do. It's an issue for some people who drive lots at night and want to preserve night vision.


The second issue we see is the brightness. We have to find something that matches the brightness of the factory bulb. The factory bulb is a 2W bulb. Most LEDs on the market are the equivalent of 5-7W in brightness, so they look way brighter than the factory bulbs.


The third issue is color. The color in the cluster comes from color filters built into the gauge faces and LED diffuser panel. It isn't possible to put anything other than a white behind a telltale location and still get a red signal. Amber warnings have to be white. Turn signals have to be white. High beams have to be white. Illumination bulbs have to be warm white or they'll look wrong. And of course, customers all know they want a set of 20 blue LEDs which just isn't going to work (unless you want green gauge faces, brown LED and orange or purple telltale lights and blue green high beam).



I'm meeting with our LED manufacturer soon and will ask if it's possible to supply exactly what we're looking for. It would definitely not be a cheap kit for us to offer, but it's possible that we'll have something in the next couple of months.



Thank you,
Bryan

[WVZR-1]

Hello Bryan,

I've understood the issues/challenges with 'back-lighting' for years. That's always been an issue and I'm NOT an LED fan either.

Pointer/needle lifting I use a plastic fork - repositioning 'never' I leave that to the cluster shops!!!

What I thought would be interesting from your service capabilities is to offer the (2) DIC and 'switch pod' lighting replacements. I believe I can accomplish these for myself but the subject surfaces from time to time.

I've done many bulb services of later GM radios and I've a friend/acquaintance that buys them by the 'gross' so I just use whatever he's using currently. I get all of the bulb possibilities.

I've included 2 bulb charts from the '91 & '96 FSM that cover the bulbs of interest, '90 - '96 are so similar in 'switch pod' lighting I'd think it would do well. I'd think with likely NO 'SPONSORED VENDOR' requirements information information should pass freely. A 'SPONSORED VENDOR' relationship here would I think result in some trickle down through the CF also.

'91 Switch Illumination.jpg

'96 Switch Illumination.jpg


***A bit of an Internet glitch here most of the afternoon with NO ACCESS!! I had to piece this post together 4 times!

[-=Jeff=-]

Thinking about this, I am guessing the cluster PCB is the same 90-96. The harness was then repinned later to remove the up shift and move the door ajar. If you use Bryan’s tach calibration pack you could swap the gauges to the PCB and it will all work the same