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spork2367 · 02-28-2019

All right. I'm back from vacation and on my laptop instead of my phone and can form a more complete post.

The EPA is the reason oils reduced the amount of ZDDP. More because of the phosphorus than the zinc. But both are needed together for the protective anti-scuffing properties of the ZDDP. The phosphorus is detrimental to the catalyst, so over time increases emissions.

Currently, diesel oil is limited to 1200 ppm phosphorus and passenger car oil to 800 ppm phosphorus (for 20 and 30 grade oils, 40 and above are exempt). No commercial "automotive" oil will contain more than 800 ppm or diesel more than 1200 ppm. Racing oils and "high performance" oils are not subject to this. Basically, if you can buy it at Advanced Auto, Autozone, whatever, it has no more than 800 ppm.

I use Brad Penn which contains 1500 ppm zinc and 1400 ppm phosphorus in a proprietary blend of Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate and p-dodecylphenol. This is for their high performance oil line. Brad Penn is the oldest operational refinery in the US (former Kendall refinery). They use 100% PA grade crude oil. Interesting history if you have time to kill.

That being said, today's oils offer more protection than previous oils, with ZDDP levels being equivalent. But, two modern equivalent oils with one having less ZDDP will never offer the same level of protection as the oil with more ZDDP.

I work in a facility (one of the VERY few) that produces new OEM flat tappet piston engines. Ours happen to be air cooled aircraft engines (we make roller tappet engines as well). Like automotive oil, aircraft oil has also been limited in it's ZDDP levels. It is important enough that we specify an additive to be added to our engines that is just ZDDP.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...SABEgLQRvD_BwE

To really solidify the importance of this, because we are aware people won't add this and generally use the wrong thing when given the opportunity, on our high performance engines, we spent about 10 years and millions of dollars perfecting a DLC (diamond like carbon) coating for flat tappet lifters. This coating can be as much as 50% harder in microindentation tests than natural crystaline diamond.

These are engines that carry 10 times the liability of automotive engines. We have a lab that rivals that of any automotive engine manufacturer right up to a scanning electron microscope. So we have done extensive internal and external testing on this.

Now, will your engine fail if you throw 11 quarts of Walmart's finest engine oil in there....unlikely. Once an engine is broken in, destructive scuffing is only likely to occur with debris in the oil, under oil starvation, or under sustained high RPM loading. So the average driver puttering around in their ZR-1 is going to be fine. However the engine will see more wear with less ZDDP under all conditions.

There is some debate about break in. We actually don't recommend the a ZDDP additive during break in. Our engines are all run on an engine dyno and the break in is at a very uniform operating RPM. The ZDDP could actually prolong the time needed for break in. In cars, break in is typically more difficult as you can't control the ideal conditions and much more time is spent at low RPMs vs. in the ideal higher operating RPM range. My opinion would be that unless you can be 100 percent certain that you can maintain break in conditions, you would be better off with the ZDDP prolonging the break in period while still offering protection. That won't really be applicable to most ZR1 owners. Cars with less than 1500 miles would be well suited to using a non synthetic moderate ZDDP level oil until broken in.

Mobile 1 today isn't mobile one of 1990. Any comparison between the two is laughable. GM is going to tell you to run it, because they don't know anything else and probably have some contractual obligation.

Is it bad oil? No. I run the Mobile 1 high mileage in my wife's Acura and both my Dodge trucks.

Is it the best oil for our cars? Not by a long shot.

Here is a list of all Mobile 1 oils phosphorus and zinc contents:

https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...pecs-guide.pdf

The Amsoil 10W-40 that has been posted is a good choice with 1378 ppm zinc, and 1265 ppm phosphorus. Although the Amsoil Z-Rod comes in at 1440 ppm zinc and 1320 ppm phosphorus.

02-28-2019	#55
spork2367 Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: PA Posts: 874	Re: Amazon engine oil vs the world All right. I'm back from vacation and on my laptop instead of my phone and can form a more complete post. The EPA is the reason oils reduced the amount of ZDDP. More because of the phosphorus than the zinc. But both are needed together for the protective anti-scuffing properties of the ZDDP. The phosphorus is detrimental to the catalyst, so over time increases emissions. Currently, diesel oil is limited to 1200 ppm phosphorus and passenger car oil to 800 ppm phosphorus (for 20 and 30 grade oils, 40 and above are exempt). No commercial "automotive" oil will contain more than 800 ppm or diesel more than 1200 ppm. Racing oils and "high performance" oils are not subject to this. Basically, if you can buy it at Advanced Auto, Autozone, whatever, it has no more than 800 ppm. I use Brad Penn which contains 1500 ppm zinc and 1400 ppm phosphorus in a proprietary blend of Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate and p-dodecylphenol. This is for their high performance oil line. Brad Penn is the oldest operational refinery in the US (former Kendall refinery). They use 100% PA grade crude oil. Interesting history if you have time to kill. That being said, today's oils offer more protection than previous oils, with ZDDP levels being equivalent. But, two modern equivalent oils with one having less ZDDP will never offer the same level of protection as the oil with more ZDDP. I work in a facility (one of the VERY few) that produces new OEM flat tappet piston engines. Ours happen to be air cooled aircraft engines (we make roller tappet engines as well). Like automotive oil, aircraft oil has also been limited in it's ZDDP levels. It is important enough that we specify an additive to be added to our engines that is just ZDDP. https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...SABEgLQRvD_BwE To really solidify the importance of this, because we are aware people won't add this and generally use the wrong thing when given the opportunity, on our high performance engines, we spent about 10 years and millions of dollars perfecting a DLC (diamond like carbon) coating for flat tappet lifters. This coating can be as much as 50% harder in microindentation tests than natural crystaline diamond. These are engines that carry 10 times the liability of automotive engines. We have a lab that rivals that of any automotive engine manufacturer right up to a scanning electron microscope. So we have done extensive internal and external testing on this. Now, will your engine fail if you throw 11 quarts of Walmart's finest engine oil in there....unlikely. Once an engine is broken in, destructive scuffing is only likely to occur with debris in the oil, under oil starvation, or under sustained high RPM loading. So the average driver puttering around in their ZR-1 is going to be fine. However the engine will see more wear with less ZDDP under all conditions. There is some debate about break in. We actually don't recommend the a ZDDP additive during break in. Our engines are all run on an engine dyno and the break in is at a very uniform operating RPM. The ZDDP could actually prolong the time needed for break in. In cars, break in is typically more difficult as you can't control the ideal conditions and much more time is spent at low RPMs vs. in the ideal higher operating RPM range. My opinion would be that unless you can be 100 percent certain that you can maintain break in conditions, you would be better off with the ZDDP prolonging the break in period while still offering protection. That won't really be applicable to most ZR1 owners. Cars with less than 1500 miles would be well suited to using a non synthetic moderate ZDDP level oil until broken in. Mobile 1 today isn't mobile one of 1990. Any comparison between the two is laughable. GM is going to tell you to run it, because they don't know anything else and probably have some contractual obligation. Is it bad oil? No. I run the Mobile 1 high mileage in my wife's Acura and both my Dodge trucks. Is it the best oil for our cars? Not by a long shot. Here is a list of all Mobile 1 oils phosphorus and zinc contents: https://mobiloil.com/~/media/amer/us...pecs-guide.pdf The Amsoil 10W-40 that has been posted is a good choice with 1378 ppm zinc, and 1265 ppm phosphorus. Although the Amsoil Z-Rod comes in at 1440 ppm zinc and 1320 ppm phosphorus. Last edited by spork2367; 02-28-2019 at 11:42 AM.