[spork2367]

Originally Posted by Vette73

I wonder if any other Corvette registries, example Z06,C1,C2,C3,C5 etc etc have these opinions of values on there cars......I guess it's because from what I understand the C4 ZR-1 was the most expensive car sold in the nineties...

Probably not. Early corvettes (C1, C2, some C3) have value no matter how they were optioned. And the rest of C3s seem to be following. They can be restored in virtually any condition and very few of the parts suffer from the rarity/availability issues (perceived or real). C5s and newer are solely based on the depreciation of new vehicles as there is virtually no collectibility due to scarcity or age. (with exception of maybe the new ZR1)

First Gen. ZR1s break that mold. They are the least desired, least collectible generation. That may change over time, but that's the current situation. So the collectibility/value of them is based solely on the ZR1 package and the perceived supply and demand of the cars and replacement parts. And the market is currently flooded with cars and parts. Which whether you want to claim it's the cause or effect, is why the values are down.

I think what started the current decline is people selling them to buy C6 and C7s. Then as the market began to get flooded other people worried they should get out before the market tanked completely and started selling. White Racing, Jim Butler and several others have spent the last two years liquidating their ZR1 parts on ebay.

Anyone who believes that parts and parts cars (especially for limited availability cars) doesn't go right along with the market value of the cars never paid attention to 426 Hemi cars during the muscle car boom. Or, the place I made some good money, Oldsmobile 442 W-30s.

Originally Posted by rush91

Opinions on valuations of our ZR-1s are just that....opinions. The market sets the values, not us. If one feels they have a $40,000 or $25000 Beast, its your car, you set the price. Two years ago I could of never afforded to get into one, but the market changed, and I now own my dream car.......

Except we are the market. We are the buyers and sellers. The market isn't some inanimate object or outside entity. Someone can list a car for whatever they want, but I don't think it's doing the community any favors. And some of those people may not realize where they market is at either.

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

Nor is it ( or I ) buying yours.
Your evidence might be less complete than you think.
There are very few low mile cars changing hands, but do not think for a minute it just happens at auctions or sites common to you.
Those wanting the best are quietly picking them up.
Start following just the high end cars.
You will see them disappear.
Sure they may be lower than the asking price, but nowhere near the number that you "threw out"."
For what it is worth.

M

I know the demographics of classic car sales just fine.

70% of cars change hands in private party sales. These numbers are the most accurate numbers out there. They are the deals that the buyers and sellers were both most comfortable with, with the least amount of outside influence. Most of which neither you, I, nor the valuation companies are privy to. They use some outside information, and we see a few of those sales here, but that demographic remains unaccessible. While that plays the largest part, you can't use that as part of your argument about value alone because you don't have that info. Hagerty cheats a little bit by using their insurance arm to assess values of some cars based on private party sales, but that is almost like using a word to define itself.

10% of cars are sold through dealers. Some of these are dealer owned and some are consignment. Valuation companies have some access to this information through their dealer networks (limited to only a hundred or so of the biggest classic car dealers) and buy it now online auctions. Dealer markups are often high and there is no differentiating what was car cost and what was markup. On top of that, the overwhelming number of dealer sales are very small dealers and that sales information ends there.

20% of cars end up at auctions. This information is virtually 100% accessible as is the markup in the form of buyer and seller premiums. These prices are the least reliable. They range from the extremely low to the extremely high. However because so much information is available from those sales it averages out to pretty consistent numbers. Which is why it remains the largest tool for valuation services. This is all about statistics and population size.

The auction average, combined with some private party sales, a small handful of dealer sales, and also some listing prices is where those companies numbers come from.

We have a bit of an extended view in the market here because we can watch what cars AREN'T selling for. Some company that keeps track of thousands of collectors cars doesn't have the time or resources to do that. If you want a very current Porsche 911 value, you go to Hagerty. The market is so hot for those that they probably update it weekly with large amounts of information. The ZR1 market is so limited that I'm sure it gets a minimal number of updates.


If you look at the auctions this year and say that about 40 ZR1s have gone across the block we can estimate that about 200 cars were sold. That means about 20 were sold through dealerships. So if we can view what 20 cars sold or didn't sell for here, what 40 cars went across the auction block for, and what the market on parts has done in the last year, we can get a pretty accurate view of the market ignoring the 20 cars (statistically) sold at dealerships. Would our picture be more accurate with those numbers? Absolutely. Can we come up with a great estimate without them. Yup.