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-   -   'Occasional' loping idle... (http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19563)

Schrade 02-19-2013 07:24 PM

'Occasional' loping idle...
 
Oh the irony.

How many times I quoted myself on vac. leak detection, and I now have AN INTERMITTENT one.

Every so often, it lopes about 300 rpm's at idle. But not always??? When not, it's smooth as can be.

Is there a common place to start? Like plenum / runners, on L98?

Happens only in Closed Loop. Got the can of started fluid just earlier...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Schrade (Post 1978188)
Vacuum leak.

Detection process follow to a 'T':

EVERYone should bookmark this post too.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade_1 View Post
Idle to warm motor. MUST BE CLOSED LOOP WARM.

Brick on GAS pedal, block TB linkage, anything to get a STEADY idle - about 2k rpms. MUST BE STEADY.

Spray starting fluid everywhere air can get sucked in, A LITTLE AT A TIME, until the motor surges. That's the leak. If it's in a tight spot, light a book of matches, blow them out quickly, and feed the smoke to the draw. Don't stop when you find one leak either. Plenum-to-runners, runners-to-intake, emissions hoses (EVAP cannister, EGR) valve covers, brake booster, EVERYWHERE. Vacuum/intake leak will make a 2012 car lope idle, and also will make a 50 year old lawnmower lope idle.

Bookmark this page!!!

This ain't hard. But I know of only 1 PERSON who ever got it right, and found his intake leak.

Even mechanics don't know how to get it right...


scottfab 02-19-2013 08:56 PM

Re: 'Occasional' loping idle...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schrade (Post 164388)
Oh the irony.

How many times I quoted myself on vac. leak detection, and I now have AN INTERMITTENT one.

Every so often, it lopes about 300 rpm's at idle. But not always??? When not, it's smooth as can be.

Is there a common place to start? Like plenum / runners, on L98?

Happens only in Closed Loop. Got the can of started fluid just earlier...

L98 I have no idea. On an LT5 I do.

XfireZ51 02-19-2013 09:10 PM

Re: 'Occasional' loping idle...
 
Sticking throttle?

mike100 02-19-2013 09:57 PM

Re: 'Occasional' loping idle...
 
tank purge solenoid leak near throttle body? or failing injectors- that's pretty common on the LT5.

what is your warm idle speed?

Schrade 02-19-2013 11:58 PM

Re: 'Occasional' loping idle...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mike100 (Post 164410)
tank purge solenoid leak near throttle body? or failing injectors- that's pretty common on the LT5.

what is your warm idle speed?

Holds 650 steady, when not loping...





Quote:

L98 I have no idea. On an LT5 I do.
Hmm... ok - let me 'clarify':
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schrade (Post 164388)
Oh the irony.

How many times I quoted myself on vac. leak detection, and I now have AN INTERMITTENT one.

Every so often, it lopes about 300 rpm's at idle. But not always??? When not, it's smooth as can be.

Is there a common place to start on LT5? Like plenum / runners, on L98?

Happens only in Closed Loop. Got the can of started fluid just earlier...

Of course, if it's your secret, maybe I can PayPal some $$ for the info?

And then again, maybe I can't. ;)

Smartass. :rolleyes:

Rest assured Sir; you are NOWHERE near as smart as yours [not so] truly......

sammy 02-20-2013 12:20 AM

Re: 'Occasional' loping idle...
 
just a thought , what kind of connection do you have on the map sensor ,at the back of the manifold , if it is just a rubber hose that could cause it ,if it is either too long or if the rubber is getting weak .

Paul Workman 02-20-2013 06:35 AM

Re: 'Occasional' loping idle...
 
Some thoughts...

Dropping RPM is not what usually happens with a leak (in closed loop): just the OPPOSITE.

Is typical of an injector failing -the loping idle, drop in RPM; affects specific cylinder(s).

Also typical of ingnition: start with the easy stuff - change the plugs first

Fuel pressure? Leak-down test results?

Just sayin...loping, low idle, affecting specific cylinders...an air leak isn't on the top of my list (nor is casting dispersions)

P.

Schrade 02-20-2013 09:57 AM

Re: 'Occasional' loping idle...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Workman (Post 164432)
Some thoughts...

Dropping RPM is not what usually happens with a leak (in closed loop): just the OPPOSITE.

Is typical of an injector failing -the loping idle, drop in RPM; affects specific cylinder(s).

Also typical of ingnition: start with the easy stuff - change the plugs first

Fuel pressure? Leak-down test results?

Just sayin...loping, low idle, affecting specific cylinders...an air leak isn't on the top of my list (nor is casting dispersions)

P.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammy (Post 164426)
just a thought , what kind of connection do you have on the map sensor ,at the back of the manifold , if it is just a rubber hose that could cause it ,if it is either too long or if the rubber is getting weak .

So such a symptom CAN be generated electronically?

With the tranny controller module and speedo module giving occasional flashing / trouble LED's, and nasty new static on the radio, I suppose that's suspect as well...

Static FP tests consistently holds 47-48 PSI; leakdown to 45 after :15. Dynamic FP not yet checked yet.

scottfab 02-20-2013 10:37 AM

Re: 'Occasional' loping idle...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Schrade (Post 164388)
Oh the irony.

How many times I quoted myself on vac. leak detection, and I now have AN INTERMITTENT one.

Every so often, it lopes about 300 rpm's at idle. But not always??? When not, it's smooth as can be.

Is there a common place to start? Like plenum / runners, on L98?

Happens only in Closed Loop. Got the can of started fluid just earlier...

I didn't get the indirect reference to LT5 above. It's clear now that there is such a reference.

I can only speak from my own experience. Start by draining any oil build up there is in that little hose going to the MAP (as has been mentioned) then clean out the carbon in the IAC tunnel and the IAC itself. It's easy to get at and causes variation in idle if crud builds up there AND it is intermittent. IAC build up can also cause high idle.

The permanent fix for the oil in the little hose is to angle the center part of the hose higher than the other ends (tie wrap).
The fix for the IAC is to run the car hard now and then. Short trips tend to build carbon up in it.

Every car, no matter what it is, has it's quirks and reoccurring issues. Years ago I started a "sound library" to catalog stuff such as piston slap, bad water pump, etc. (it never caught on) I never did catalog the loping idle issue I had since I began collecting sounds after that. Too bad else you could compare what you're hearing to it.

I believe in sharing freely what I learn (no Paypal) and what I learn from others. The only exception is when I have to physically provide hardware and hours of work :neutral:
Well I guess there was two other exceptions. One was when I sold and donated all profits to "mom" from making CDs of each spring gathering at the NCM by the then ZR-1 Registry AND the other was a "How to Rebuild the ZF6" CD in 1999.

Good luck finding the source of the loping.

Schrade 02-20-2013 10:47 AM

Re: 'Occasional' loping idle...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scottfab (Post 164455)
I didn't get the indirect reference to LT5 above. It's clear now that there is such a reference.

I can only speak from my own experience. Start by draining any oil build up there is in that little hose going to the MAP (as has been mentioned) then clean out the carbon in the IAC tunnel and the IAC itself. It's easy to get at and causes variation in idle if crud builds up there AND it is intermittent. IAC build up can also cause high idle.

The permanent fix for the oil in the little hose is to angle the center part of the hose higher than the other ends (tie wrap).
The fix for the IAC is to run the car hard now and then. Short trips tend to build carbon up in it.

Every car, no matter what it is, has it's quirks and reoccurring issues. Years ago I started a "sound library" to catalog stuff such as piston slap, bad water pump, etc. (it never caught on) I never did catalog the loping idle issue I had since I began collecting sounds after that. Too bad else you could compare what you're hearing to it.

I believe in sharing freely what I learn (no Paypal) and what I learn from others. The only exception is when I have to physically provide hardware and hours of work :neutral:
Well I guess there was two other exceptions. One was when I sold and donated all profits to "mom" from making CDs of each spring gathering at the NCM by the then ZR-1 Registry AND the other was a "How to Rebuild the ZF6" CD in 1999.

Good luck finding the source of the loping.

Thank you very much Sir...


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