ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

ZR-1 Net Registry Forums (http://zr1.net/forum/index.php)
-   C4 ZR-1 Technical Postings (http://zr1.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Clutch slave. (http://zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7782)

rhipsher 02-04-2009 05:51 PM
Clutch slave.
 
I'm having the worst time trying to find a slave cylinder. They are obsolete with most parts houses. Napa, Advanced, Auto zone. They show obsolete on there computers. I'm almost tempted to put the original first one back in. I just don't know how to bleed it. There's no way to get ahold of the bleed screw. It looks like its been cut off.

-=Jeff=- 02-04-2009 05:56 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 53932)
I'm having the worst time trying to find a slave cylinder. They are obsolete with most parts houses. Napa, Advanced, Auto zone. They show obsolete on there computers. I'm almost tempted to put the original first one back in. I just don't know how to bleed it. There's no way to get ahold of the bleed screw. It looks like its been cut off.
use a 91- later one.. i did on my car..

easier to work what and bleed screw will not break off like the 89-90 models

91-96 is more readily avail.. L98/LT1/LT4/LT5 slaves are all the same

USAFPILOT 02-04-2009 06:28 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
yeah Rick...on the later model the bleed screw is on the bottom...if I rememebr correctly from doing mine. Either that or I put it on upside down.

LT5-Lee 02-04-2009 09:28 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 53932)
I'm having the worst time trying to find a slave cylinder. They are obsolete with most parts houses. Napa, Advanced, Auto zone. They show obsolete on there computers. I'm almost tempted to put the original first one back in. I just don't know how to bleed it. There's no way to get ahold of the bleed screw. It looks like its been cut off.
Hello Rick, I have been meaning to say "Howdy" for a while since we are both Houstonian Z owners and share some interests. Just call me Lee.

I had to do my clutch R&R by myself on my '91. OH yea, FUN, FUN. (BTW, thanks for all the pics you posted), but ...even with the later style bleeder screw on top, it was also a pain to get it bleed because of the tight fit and wrench room. I am still not sure I got 100% of the air out. For the first time I can remember, I committed the sin of letting the reservoir run dry. I also read a lot of comments about just having to let the last bit of air work it's way up & out so I just kept working the clutch.

I swore that if I had to do it again, I would try and install one of those spring loaded self bleeder in there if possible.

Another note, you may not have read about yet concerning the badly designed/machined replacements. IIRC, the internal orifice was too small to release the piston and a burr chewed the new o-ring?

Let me know If you need any help neighbor, I am on the NW side of town near 610.

Lee

USAFPILOT 02-04-2009 11:17 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
I let the reservoir bleed dry at first when I changed mine as well...what a pita. If I was at home I would look under there and see whether or not the bleed screw is on the top or bottom all I know is it was a pita. I still need to figure out why my shifter is rattling.

rhipsher 02-04-2009 11:44 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LT5-Lee (Post 53946)
Hello Rick, I have been meaning to say "Howdy" for a while since we are both Houstonian Z owners and share some interests. Just call me Lee.

I had to do my clutch R&R by myself on my '91. OH yea, FUN, FUN. (BTW, thanks for all the pics you posted), but ...even with the later style bleeder screw on top, it was also a pain to get it bleed because of the tight fit and wrench room. I am still not sure I got 100% of the air out. For the first time I can remember, I committed the sin of letting the reservoir run dry. I also read a lot of comments about just having to let the last bit of air work it's way up & out so I just kept working the clutch.

I swore that if I had to do it again, I would try and install one of those spring loaded self bleeder in there if possible.

Another note, you may not have read about yet concerning the badly designed/machined replacements. IIRC, the internal orifice was too small to release the piston and a burr chewed the new o-ring?

Let me know If you need any help neighbor, I am on the NW side of town near 610.

Lee
Good to meet you Lee. After all I've had to do on the car, replacing the slave cylinder is an easy welcome relief. A week after I brought it home I had it up on jack stands replacing both of the exhaust manifolds because the drivers side barfed out chunks of honey comb. And my smart azz nieghbor walks by and says "gee! Your already having to work on it!" I just wanted to throw some of those golf ball size chunks of cat material at her. But I am friends with USAFPILOT on this forum and Rob93ZR1 on CF. We get together every now and then. There are other ZR-1 owners here in town that I havn't met yet. Maybe someday.

rhipsher 02-04-2009 11:52 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFPILOT (Post 53950)
I let the reservoir bleed dry at first when I changed mine as well...what a pita. If I was at home I would look under there and see whether or not the bleed screw is on the top or bottom all I know is it was a pita. I still need to figure out why my shifter is rattling.
Is your shifter buzzing or the whole shifter rattling. My little reverse lock out thinga majig buzzes at certain rpm's and it doesn't matter if you tighten the little set screw. Just shoot a little lithium grease in it and it sets up a nice cushin that gets rid of the buzzing. Just a little redneck enginuity.:mrgreen:

LT5-Lee 02-05-2009 12:25 AM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 53951)
... A week after I brought it home I had it up on jack stands replacing both of the exhaust manifolds because the drivers side barfed out chunks of honey comb. .
Hi Rick, :wave: I noticed a nice little dent on my passenger side cat while I was doing the pilot bushing job so I hope it is not the 2nd or 3rd or...etc. next problem to worry about.:cry:

I am about to get serious about investigating some serious chug-a-lug symptom mine developed when I nail it. I just figured it would be a secondary vacuum thing, but when it still does it with the key off I am starting to pucker up just thinking about an electrical problem.

Anyway, I read you are a CNC machinist, it seems we share some interests although I don't remember any G-Codes anymore and was just a job shop manual machinist for a short while, you can appreciate how it can get in your DNA for life. I would like to yak:blahblah: with you sometime so if would PM me your phone number and a message of when it would be the best time to catch you with some free time.

Lee

LT5-Lee 02-05-2009 12:42 AM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFPILOT (Post 53950)
I let the reservoir bleed dry at first when I changed mine as well...what a pita. If I was at home I would look under there and see whether or not the bleed screw is on the top or bottom all I know is it was a pita. I still need to figure out why my shifter is rattling.

Greetings USAFPILOT, I have read plenty of your posts over the years, thanks. I am sure you helped me out with something without knowing it? :worship:call me Lee. :hello:

It seemed about two pumps is all you get? My '91 was on top, with a melted rubber cap from the heat.

LT5-Lee 02-05-2009 12:46 AM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 53932)
I'm having the worst time trying to find a slave cylinder. ......
Rick, before running enough fluid through it to flush out, it might be a good idea to use teflon tape to seal the threads better and run a piece of clear tubing up and back into the clutch master cylinder or another clear container above the cylinder. Then barely (and I mean just barely) crack the bleeder screw to see if any air after a few pumps. WITH another set of eyes watching the level that is.

rhipsher 02-05-2009 01:16 AM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Bother if you've had to replace the pilot bushing then you've already earned my respect. I know exactly whats involved in doing that. I should of put a Fadanza flywheel in when I had it all apart replacing the clutch. Oh well? Unless you bought one of these super low mile ones there will always be something to fix. Mine just turned 80,000 miles. One day I will buy a super low mile primadonna to put away. But I'm gonna enjoy this one. And when the engine needs to be rebuilt, I'll just drop it off at Corey's and say its 368 time dude. Call me when its done.

W i l l 02-05-2009 02:55 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
There is no need to use the bleeder valve. After installing the new slave, fill the master and start pumping the clutch pedal. It works better if you sidestep it. Sometime during the third beer, you will get all the air out of the system. Make sure you keep the master full.

Will

rhipsher 02-05-2009 08:15 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
I ordered the slave cylinder from two different Orielly's auto parts stores thinking I've doubled the chances of nothing going wrong. Boy I was the one that was wrong. The guy at the first store say's its here come pick it up. I get there and open the box and it's the master cylinder. So I call the second store. They say it was never ordered and I was standing right there when the guy ordered it. Is everybody on drugs or what.

-=Jeff=- 02-05-2009 09:05 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 54008)
I ordered the slave cylinder from two different Orielly's auto parts stores thinking I've doubled the chances of nothing going wrong. Boy I was the one that was wrong. The guy at the first store say's its here come pick it up. I get there and open the box and it's the master cylinder. So I call the second store. They say it was never ordered and I was standing right there when the guy ordered it. Is everybody on drugs or what.

www.rockauto.com

I am using a cast cylinder.. works fine and is around $60

rhipsher 02-05-2009 09:17 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Jeff=- (Post 54014)
www.rockauto.com

I am using a cast cylinder.. works fine and is around $60
Bro at this point I would be happy getting a cylinder made out of chocolate chip cookies.:cool:

LT5-Lee 02-05-2009 09:31 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 54008)
............ Is everybody on drugs or what.
I use to sell parts when I was younger, back when an auto parts store had rows of books and the only computer was on the shelf for either a GM HEI or the Ford brain box that oozed out 5 lbs. of epoxy when it fried. If IRC, it was around $60 and that was a big $ item. :jawdrop:

Sometimes, there are such a joke for those that remember a real parts man.

LT5-Lee 02-05-2009 09:34 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 54017)
Bro at this point I would be happy getting a cylinder made out of chocolate chip cookies.:cool:

Well, if you have a lathe & mill, you can always make one if you have to? :cool:

-=Jeff=- 02-05-2009 09:35 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 54017)
Bro at this point I would be happy getting a cylinder made out of chocolate chip cookies.:cool:
Oh I should add, it is for a 91

rhipsher 02-05-2009 10:25 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LT5-Lee (Post 54020)
Well, if you have a lathe & mill, you can always make one if you have to? :cool:
Thats what I'm afraid of. If I made one at the shop It would be better than the ones that are on the market. I would find a piece of Titanium or 316 stainless laying around the shop. Make the body and the piston. Bleed port. And you would be able to unscrew the cylinder body from the ears like a Mag light and just replace the Oring seal when it wears out. Simple, easy, light weight/strong, Will never rust or tarnish.:thumbsup:

-=Jeff=- 02-05-2009 10:36 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 54029)
Thats what I'm afraid of. If I made one at the shop It would be better than the ones that are on the market. I would find a piece of Titanium or 316 stainless laying around the shop. Make the body and the piston. Bleed port. And you would be able to unscrew the cylinder body from the ears like a Mag light and just replace the Oring seal when it wears out. Simple, easy, light weight/strong, Will never rust or tarnish.:thumbsup:
SO what are you waiting for.. I would buy one

oh by the way.. if you have not ordered from Rock Auto..

I Found this:
Your RockAuto discount code 1328116953149 will expire on February 15, 2009.

W i l l 02-05-2009 10:36 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Rick,

Why not put a stainless insert in the old slave cylider like they do the C3 brakes? Anyone have a source for the plunger rubber???

Will

LT5-Lee 02-05-2009 11:02 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 54029)
Thats what I'm afraid of. If I made one at the shop It would be better than the ones that are on the market. I would find a piece of Titanium or 316 stainless laying around the shop. Make the body and the piston. Bleed port. And you would be able to unscrew the cylinder body from the ears like a Mag light and just replace the Oring seal when it wears out. Simple, easy, light weight/strong, Will never rust or tarnish.:thumbsup:
Exactly, but you know as well as I do it would not be out of titanium. Maybe TIN coated but unsure of what brake fluid would do? Some 316 might be hard enough for the weak, 304 for better corrosion or how about some 4130 heat treated. Hell cast iron would work and use a steel or brass Holley jet for flow control.

LT5-Lee 02-05-2009 11:06 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by W i l l (Post 54035)
Rick,

Why not put a stainless insert in the old slave cylider like they do the C3 brakes? Anyone have a source for the plunger rubber???

Will

If you could find an old Wagner book, they list all their parts by size in the back index.:-D

rhipsher 02-06-2009 02:54 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
In due time my friends in due time. Parker Orings are some of the best http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PA...0048021dacRCRD

scottfab 02-06-2009 03:30 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Even machining a new one from SS you'll still have the geometry problem of the pistong hitting the cylinder. This is a known problem from discussions involving Hib. (see archives of the net list)
I suppose a screw-in replacement would make it easier but....
a fix to the geometry would be better.

rhipsher 02-06-2009 07:52 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottfab (Post 54067)
Even machining a new one from SS you'll still have the geometry problem of the pistong hitting the cylinder. This is a known problem from discussions involving Hib. (see archives of the net list)
I suppose a screw-in replacement would make it easier but....
a fix to the geometry would be better.
I guess I'm not quite sure what you mean by the piston hitting the cylinder. Do you mean the piston rubbing the inside of the cylinder or the rod lining up with the clutch fork? Or do you mean the piston is to sloppy of a fit inside the cylinder on the ones we buy? All of those are easy fixes if thats the case. This time I ended up with a cast iron slave. If this one fails prematurely then you can bet I'll design and make a custom one for my Z and if it holds up for at least three monthes with no problems then I will become a supporting vender and make them for you guys. Could be good for some extra beer money.

LT5-Lee 02-06-2009 08:11 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 54079)
I guess I'm not quite sure what you mean by the piston hitting the cylinder. Do you mean the piston rubbing the inside of the cylinder or the rod lining up with the clutch fork? Or do you mean the piston is to sloppy of a fit inside the cylinder on the ones we buy? All of those are easy fixes if thats the case. This time I ended up with a cast iron slave. If this one fails prematurely then you can bet I'll design and make a custom one for my Z and if it holds up for at least three monthes with no problems then I will become a supporting vender and make them for you guys. Could be good for some extra beer money.

For starters, checkout the "Common Issues" (#21,#25 & #26) area off the main page if you haven't read it all yet? Then there are more problems somewhere about bad newly manufactured replacements, I think from TRW?:-(**|=

LT5-Lee 02-06-2009 08:22 PM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhipsher (Post 54079)
I guess I'm not quite sure what you mean by the piston hitting the cylinder. Do you mean the piston rubbing the inside of the cylinder or the rod lining up with the clutch fork? Or do you mean the piston is to sloppy of a fit inside the cylinder on the ones we buy? All of those are easy fixes if thats the case. This time I ended up with a cast iron slave. If this one fails prematurely then you can bet I'll design and make a custom one for my Z and if it holds up for at least three monthes with no problems then I will become a supporting vender and make them for you guys. Could be good for some extra beer money.
Then checkout "GM Clutch Hydraulic System Actuator" Under ZR-1 Trouble shooting section.

It has some pics and another link for even more great news for a slave cylinder.:mad:

tomtom72 02-07-2009 08:04 AM
Re: Clutch slave.
 
I remember the talk I had with Bill B via e-mail back in 05. He had mentioned there was also a geometry issue with the position of the M/C for the system. He found that the spacer GM used is not creating level travel of the M/C's piston, thus wearing the seal because it travels thru an arch rather than a dead flat line. He was considering the issue and what angle to remake the spacer to correct the OEM spacer's error.

In his opinion, the original spacer is just a degree or two off. He said that they didn't account for the fire wall being angled at the mounting point.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:46 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ZR-1 Net Registry 2025