Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

Hello guys!

I'm looking on some websites since a few days for my 5th summer toy and I noticed that the ZR-1s seem to have gained some value.

I bought in mine at the end of 2015. I remember in 2016 people were posting ridiculous ads. I'm pretty sure some were sold for under 10,000$ USD.

In Canada the cheapest right now is a red 1991 52,000 miles for $19,000 USD.

Am I mistaken?

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

Spring time all cars post at higher prices come fall they list cheaper.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

It does seem prices are up on C4s in general.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

No. All Corvettes are falling like rocks. Don't fool yourself.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

C4's, as a whole, are dead flat. Some individual models are dropping. Like the 1990 ZR1s. I think we're closing in on the bottom, but not there yet. Some higher optioned C3's are starting to climb, but if you're going to follow that trend, we have another 10 years before C4's start coming up. Here's the Hagerty graph for a base 1993 over the last 5 years. Beside it is the 1990 ZR1. Cue all the people to come in and disagree, but Hagerty has more data points than any other publicly available source. My wife's uncle had a 1993 base model that he sorted out completely, that he could hardly give away.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

The super cheap C4's seem to be getting harder to find. I am on Craigslist daily looking for deals. Here are some I have bought in the past, but I can't seem to find these prices lately.
84 - 51k miles $2500
84 - 118k new paint and beautiful - $2500
95 - 167k new trans and new leather seat cover included $1700
92 6spd - 230k $1200
These were all good looking great running cars, not junkers.

I think C4's have stopped dropping. C5s really seem to have started dropping, I am starting to see them under 6k which is an awesome deal.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

Locally there are still a lot of sub 3k 84-87 c4s. 89-95 c4s seem to average about 8k, but the same cars are for sale month after month, so they aren't selling for that. I know when my wife's uncle finally sold his 93 it sold for 6800. That was completely sorted with a very nice repaint.


I don't think the C4s overall are done dropping yet. Although I don't think that's going to apply to the super cheap high mileage cars. I think they have been at rock bottom. But they aren't going up anytime soon.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

You are 100% correct with some of your post.

1-" ZR-1 values are dropping."

Well that's true if you look at the last 24 months. There has been a drop a bit over 10%, so you are correct.

2- "Closing in on the bottom, but not there yet."

That would be incorrect. Today's value on a concours level 90 ZR-1 is $41,800.
In 2011-12, same car was $30,900.
That would be the bottom, and that was quite a few years ago.
Today's value is up by over 30% from the low point.

A far more accurate statement would be " while there has been recent volatility in the value of ZR-1s, overall, they are still considerably up from their lowest point"

3- "Hagerty's overall accuracy is good based on many data points."

That would also be largely correct. Some feel Hagerty's own insured values inflate the true value due to policyholders over valuing their cars. While there may be a bit of that, most insurers base the value on what the car is purchased for, rarely more, and they often ask for an agreement of sale if the value lies way outside of their estimate. The rare exception is likely offset by owners trying to reduce cost by insuring for a lower amount.
Hagerty states they use other data as well for their valuations.

Value trends on Hagerty are far more discernible when you select "all" rather than 3 or 5 year periods.


Further observation:
Hagerty value for concours ZR-1s:

90 $41.8
91 $40.5
92 $34.7
93 $39.4
94 $38.9
95 $52.5

I point these out as data that has never been well synchronized to what we observe at most auctions or read about in many posts on various forums, but is no less valid, and in many cases, is even more so.
That should also cue some responses, but remains data that cannot be dismissed.

:cheers:
Marty

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

I was unclear. Bottom of the current decline, not historical low. I don't believe we'll ever hit the lows that occurred after 2008. I believe 91-95 cars are settled and likely won't decline much (assuming no market collapse...lol). I think 90 ZR1s and all other C4's (outside of special models, 40th anniversary, grand sport...etc.) are going to drop a bit more.


That's also why I think low mileage 90 ZR1s are the best chance at making a buck if that's what a buyer is looking for. When all of the C4s start to rise I think you'll see the largest percentage jump there.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

Ill just add in my .02 In 2007 I paid $16,500. for a 92 in very good to excellent driver condition at 45k miles... I have not seen a similar deal since searching for a ZR-1 this year.. I did buy the 90 I have, but will not disclose what I paid for it out of respect for the seller.... I will say, he gave me a GREAT deal on it will all the extras included. :cheers:

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

That was a smoking deal. That was 1000 less than market value for a "fair" or number 4 car, which Hagerty describes as:


"#4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration. "Fair" is the one word that describes a #4 vehicle. "

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

So, according to Hagerty, a 1991 and a 1993 are worth more than a 1994? It doesn't make any sense, at all.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

After searching completed auctions on bring a trailer, I'm going with no

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

Auctions are less than 20% of sales. The majority are private transactions that can’t be tracked.


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Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

At this point who cares if the ZR1 increases in value. Did you buy your Z to have fun with it or to make money? It is an unbelievable super car for the money that no one really knows about. Own it for life and pass it on when you can no longer get in and out of it. Let the next generation make it worth more money. I will enjoy my 90 with under 23k miles for years.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

:thumbsup:

:cheers:
Marty

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

A more accurate statement would be," ZR-1 prices observed on one or more auction sites have seen a mild downturn. However, there have been too few sales through these venues to draw a firm market wide conclusion."

:cheers:
Marty

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

How about a challenge? Post up the cheapest ZR-1s you can find listed for sale. I may be wrong but I don't think too many of us purchased our cars from auctions. I am curious what the lowest prices would be. As we all know most od those will be asking prices with some flexibility.
This is how I look for my cars and then go up from there until I find a car that is nice enough to buy at a prive that I like.

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Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

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Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

I'm fine with them being grossly under valued. I hope it continues. I'd like 2 or 3 more cars.

Definitely a mild downturn right now. And that's been pretty consistent through the entire collector car market due to uncertainty in the financial markets. I don't know if I'd say there have been too few sales, there have been dozens through auction sites and live auctions in the last year.

Places like BAT and Ebay are much better gages than people want to admit. Unlike live auctions, they take place over a span of time that is long enough to make a wise decision, do research, etc. Not that someone still can't impulse buy through there, but they can impulse buy at a dealer and or be pressured to make a bad purchase.

Not only that, but BAT has VERY good visibility. Better than any dealer or private party sale on the planet. Every ZR1 that has come up on there has been posted over here. Which means the Z community has seen all of those.

If they were selling unusually high, I'd admit that the possibility existed that people got caught up in the auction mentality. When they are all selling in the same price range based on year, mileage, and condition, and it's low, I'd say that's a VERY good indicator of the market.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

I did a quick search and hit three big sites. These are the cheapest Z's for sale on those sites.
1991 - $15395 – 71k miles - Car Gurus
1991 $16900 – 62k miles – CarsforSale.com
1991 - $16900 – 83k miles – Classic Auto Trader

Just an fyi

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

1990 - $8999 - 135k miles - craigslist (and I think the other forum)

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

Keep those coming, I would like to add a cheaper high mileage one to beat on lol.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

1990 – $20k – 38.5k miles –craigslist (White/Red)
1993 - $31k – 9.6k miles –craigslist (2 owner)
1990 - $17k – 57k miles –craigslist
1991 - $17k – 66k miles –craigslist (White/Red)
1994 - $30k - 47k miles –craigslist (Admiral Blue/Black)
1990 - $21k - 29k miles -craigslist
1994 - $32.5k - 21.5k miles -craigslist
1990 - $21k - 29k miles -craigslist
1991 - $33k - 17.5k miles –craigslist (1 owner Turquois Metallic)
1990 - $16.5k - 95k miles -craigslist
1991 - $24k - 41k miles –craigslist (1 owner Dark Red Metallic)
1990 - $23.5k - 59k miles -craigslist
1992 - $19k - 69k miles –craigslist (Yellow/Black)
1994 - $28k - 35k miles -craigslist
1990 - $21k - ?? miles –craigslist (Haibeck 511hp, Bill’s Tranny)
1995 - $32k - 20.5k miles –craigslist (White/Red)
1991 - $24k - 41k miles –craigslist (1 owner)
1990 - $16k - 32.5k miles –craigslist (Canadian Market Car)
1991 - $22k - 43k miles -craigslist

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

U must be retired?


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Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

A manufacturing engineer who is good with computers and data analysis. I'm 34 years old. Wish I was retired...lol.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

Then get back to work, because your company tracks wherever you go, unless you are working at [emoji536]


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Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

Looked these up last night:


1990 – $35k – 5.2k miles – eBay – buy it now (Dark Red Metallic 2 owner)
1994 – $28.5k - 22k miles – eBay – buy it now
1991 – $20k - 43k miles – eBay – buy it now
1991 – $33k – 7.6k miles – eBay – buy it now (dealer)
1991 – $27k – 6.5k miles – eBay – buy it now (White/Black)
1991 – $30k – 16.5k miles – eBay – buy it now (dealer)
1993 – $27k - 50k miles – eBay – classified (dealer Ruby Red Metallic)
1991 – $39k - 855 miles - eBay – classified (dealer White/Red)
1993 – $50k – 7.7k miles – eBay – buy it now (dealer Yellow/White)
1990 – $23k – 72.5k miles - eBay – classified (dealer)
1991 – $26k – 52.5k miles - eBay – classified
1992 – $24k - 33k miles - eBay – classified (dealer)
1990 – $28.5k - 43k miles - eBay – classified (dealer)
1992 – $24.5k – 57k miles - eBay – classified (dealer)
1990 – $34k – 4.1k miles - eBay – classified (dealer)
1990 – $21k - 33k miles - eBay – classified (dealer)
1990 – $32k - 15k miles - eBay – classified (dealer Dark Red Metallic)
1990 – $27k - 47k miles - eBay – classified (dealer)
1991 – $30k - 16k miles - eBay – classified (dealer)

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

I am not seeing a lot of cars under $20,000.
That was the price Where I wanted to be. Looking now I am not sure I could find one again for that money and miles.
I gave 17100 for my car in June with 41k miles I believe. There is a 30 minute youtube video of my car made by The Chevy Dude to show condition.
I bought now because I feel they have bottomed out. No hard evidence other than I look at Corvette prices daily because I flip a couple each year to support my habit.
I don't feelike I got a smokin deal on my Z but I don't think I got hurt on it either.
I usually buy the very cheap C4s and flip them. I have an 88 vert and an 86 vert that I will sell soon.

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Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

I know for a fact that in 2016 some good condition ZR-1s were sold for well under $15,000$!

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

They still come up for less than 20k, but sell quick. The ones I found and posted are the ones nobody is rushing to buy.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

The reintroduction of the ZR1 a few years ago didn't do much for an uptick in values for the C4 versions but perhaps the introduction of the upcoming ZR1 with the LT5 power plant? Who knows anymore? Maybe my kid will see the benefits down the road!

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

The ZR1 name had no effect. I can’t imagine the LT5 name will have any effect since the engines bear no resemblance other than being V8s with aluminum blocks.

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

The LT-5 name being in the new ZR1 will bring awareness to the old LT-5/ZR-1 in my opinion. It never ceases to amaze me how many people I know have no idea at all what a ZR-1/LT-5 is/was...:icon_thum

Re: Is it me or ZR-1 is now gaining value?
 

If it didn’t happen with the last zr1, I doubt the lt5 name will change anything. It’s not like lt1s and lt4s have gone up in value.