Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

When replacing the fuel pumps here are the currrent tech submersible Gates products to replace those old fuel lines and cheapass plastic factory clamps.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/.../moto_0917.jpg

You need 2 feet of hose to do all the hoses. You stock guys need 27083 hose 32007 clamps.. Mine are a tad larger. Shrink to clamp, hose clamps..

If you work on it make it better, not stock....cheap GM stock parts are why you are replacing the stuff in the first place.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Harvie,

Will this alter nominal fuel rail pressure? Any thoughts on the Bosch rotary pumps?

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

These are inside the fuel tank. These hose and have nothing to do with fuel rail pressure.

I do know anything about bosch fuel pumps just delco and weldon.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

I meant to comment on the fuel hose size when I first saw you post but I see you corrected the post as an "after-thought".

I don't know that the cheap GM stock parts comment is accurate either. The parts your replacing are "maintenance" items no "LIFETIME" intended hard parts.

What do you use as a replacement for that "GM stock" Y-fitting at the tank unit? Have you hung your pumps differently in the bracket?

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

"I don't know that the cheap GM stock parts comment is accurate either"

Government Motors puts parts out for bid with specs, the lowest bidder gets the contract, not the highest quality, and for every part there are/were higher quality replacements.

my comment is 1000% accurate.

Stock plastic Y fitting is trash can material, I am using a stainelss steel y and tossing that plastic garbage in the trash can.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

OP - Post up a snapshot of your completed assembly. I guess that might be quite relative to the assessment of "yours vs OE". Show us your stuff! You've got the "attitude" let's see if there's "craftsmanship" to match.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Here is one of the former OEM suppliers to GM, check out the 5/16 fuel Ys, and guess which ones they used.

http://tubingandfittings.eldonjames....ngs?&pagenum=3

I got the SS model and port/flowed it with drills and will never have to touch it again. GM owners got the 1.61 specials....that GM probably paid 25 cents

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

This is where most of the vendors of the ss Ys get them. Then the price goes up..of course...

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/ite...0882&catid=985

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

As do all companies.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Let's allow Harvie an opportunity to show the finished product.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Obviously, I don't know how GM does it and I'm darn sure not a GM size company either....BUT...... When I spec an item or a job, it's done so with all relative parameters which include not only size & material, but finish, relative ASME, API, and other engineering, material & manufacturing standards. Done right, there's nothing left to vary except price. Quality follows the specifications. I would expect GM does this also.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

In the ideal world it should work that way.

I might point out A FEW PRIME EXAMPLES OF JUST THE OPPOSITE currently and in the past DIRECTLY from GM, that current little ignition switch problem comes to mind. Then there were all the cars from 1970s and 80s that caused GM to lose 50% of their market share because they fell apart faster than the warranty expired. How bout those 350 diesels....

Plus that little bankruptcy where they stuck their long term bond holders and gave it all to the unions. Then they stuck the Govt with 8-9 billion dollar loss (ThaT B US).

GM has a history of using "just good enough to get it out the door " that they will never recover from in our lifetimes.

If you buy knowing that, you will not be disappointed and just repair the faults as they pop up, if they don't kill you. :-D

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Harvie,

I take issue w your statement here, " Plus that little bankruptcy where they stuck their long term bond holders and gave it all to the unions. Then they stuck the Govt with 8-9 billion dollar loss (ThaT B US)."

Really?! How exactly did the union benefit from the GM bankruptcy? This is the wrong forum but frankly I have a problem w statements that dump on blue collar workers.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

OMG...Pull your head out, man. It's easy to spend $32 for a SS Y when you're buying one. Try buying 8 million of them and see how it works out for you. I'm glad they didn't spend that or have that mentality on this car or it would've been $350,000 and it never would've been produced to begin with.

Look, I'm probably the biggest GM hater here but even I don't see an argument here. My cheap plastic crap has lasted 20+ years and it's still seems to be ok. I'm not going to get upset because it didn't last 150 years like your SS part that cost 128 times as much.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Some chose to feel sorry for the unions, some feel sorry for the bond holders, tax payers of the country, and people who died. All overlook the fact that GM could have chosen to not incure those feelings.

As for me using a more expensive part when I am repairing a cars' fuel system, it is my choice to use steel, titanium, or aluminum vrs plastic everytime allowed, and stainless steel in this case because of the contact with gas, that is my way of doing things.

I would rather spend that 30 bucks now instead of ever having to disassemble the fuel system again. Now, given the option, other owners have that choice. I think of it as a mini insurance policy.

I build/repair things to a higher standard than GMs or any factory automotive bean counter allows, over the years it has proven way cheaper for me in the long run.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

After double checking, I would not use that factory Y or any $1-2 fitting to connect new $40 fuel hoses and clamps to new $130 fuel pumps ever.

Realize, I am so very used to using Aeroquip/XRP/GRP stuff that using only one $30 connector part seems like a bargain. If I weren't planning on giving the car away I would have put in a Weldon pump and forgot all that woosey factory stuff anyway.

See, my motors are worth that extra little bit of love.....

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

:confused:



THIS I can understand. Last thing I want is getting stranded on the road by a $2 part.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

That is completely different than you're previous post. I don't think anyone here (except the NCRS guys) miss out on an opportunity to upgrade and make our cars better when there is a repair to do. But, you were blasting GM for not building it this way to begin with.

Now back to the original discussion - Is this Y something that fails over time or just something that should be replaced/upgraded while you are doing the rest of the upgrades? I need to get into why I run out of fuel at 1/4 tank and I think it will end up being the sending unit in the tank. This would be a good time to do this work.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

"you were blasting GM for not building it this way to begin with"

Still am always will,they always err on the side of cost over anything else.

It might have added 12-15 to the cost of a $80,000-to as high as 1000,000 car and they chose the cheap plastic part that is soaked in fuel most of the time...cheeeeeeeeppp

it is the prob the float switch going bad.

EB381 Ac Delco pumps are the last updated model of the pumps they used in the orig cars. Plug and play much cheaper then oem alternatives and a improved/better pump.

Now try and explain how 2 pumps pushing fuel into a y into a 5/16 line can flow more than one larger capacity pump pushing fuel thru a 3/8 inch line.

Try this siphon a gal of gass with 1/4 inch hose time it, siphon with 3/8 time it and then wonder WTF were they thinking....or doing????

That is just another one of the GM tradeoffs on these cars.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Try flying on aircraft build by the lowest bidder haha oh if you ever have flown you have!

That's any big manufacture nothing new you know this!

Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

So,to summarize what parts you're using to this point:
Gates #32919 SS clamps
Gates #4219-6184 Submersible Fuel Line Hose (2ft)
Eldon James #YO-5 SS 5/16 Y Fitting (1)
AC Delco #EB381 Fuel Pumps (2)

Anything else,Harvie?

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Great info Harvie and thanks for posting this!

I've done many different things to the ZR-1 before, but never a fuel pump change so this is all new territory. Out of luck, no youtube videos on this.

The gauge in car works fine regarding the range, but it goes from full to empty using only 8-9 gallons, not the entire 18 gallon tank worth. Possibly the float switch going bad here too, but since the gauge seems to work fine through the range but most likely just over time the float limits the range due to the environment (or even rust development which happens on these cars). The car also takes a little while to start (I know this part is normal for the LT5 to crank a bit) and when warm it finally gets going then stumbles, spits and runs rough until it clears up after 20 seconds of running or so. I have not checked the fuel pressures yet , but will need to do that. It might be fuel pressure related. Anyways, seems like I might be better off replacing the whole fuel pump assembly and get the correct float rod angle, update the y fitting and hoses.

Neihoff P36 pumps are no longer available? Read old info they have metal parts vs others. It was from a while ago, who knows they might have ran to china too with the others in recent years

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

do not look

just another one of my hack jobs.....

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/.../moto_0924.jpg

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

I tried to get the hose to swell up and make it a PIA to get the wire harness off but failed miserably

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/.../moto_0927.jpg

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/.../moto_0929.jpg

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

The gas flow is all fouled up, it just flows in even patterns instead of making 180 degree turns like Gm designed it, I really screwed this up.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/.../moto_0922.jpg

yea those is two clamps on the top connection because of the increased fuel pressure and the connection is a non barbed hd fitting (like that $32 dollar stainless steel y)

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Top it all off I screwed up the guaranteed warranty work (for the dealer mechanics) by protecting those pesky wires that always are rubbing on the sharp metal gas filler pipe and shorting out stuff.

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/.../moto_0923.jpg
http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/.../moto_0925.jpg

Don't worry though, it only happens when the tank has fuel in it and the car is in motion bouncing down the road. For those reasons it may never happen to many cars.

It used to give the dealers a reason they put 80 miles on your car test driving it, to find the problem

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Everyone has their opinions on everything in life. While we may agree or disagree, is not the point. The object of the forum is to provide info on maintaining and keeping our ZR-1's just as good (if you agree) and or better than what they were when new. And just to enjoy the ownership of the ZR-1.
So I enjoy any members ideas that make an improvement over what we have and showing that it will work better than what it was.....
As far as members expressing their opinions on certain issues, not pertaining to the forum, that is for the moderators to police IMO.
I welcome Harvie's (or anyone elses) thoughts and improvements, and testing over the stock components anytime, regardless of their opinions, because either you agree with them or you don't....and BTW, I am a union member 39 years next month with the same company. But I am here for the ZR-1 and enjoying every minute of it......Ok, enough, I knew I had too much time on my hands today.........:icon_boun

BTW Harvie, nice write-up.......

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Those hoses will work if you upgrade to 3/8 fuel supply lines see pics above for 5/16 fuel lines that are stock in the car. RockAuto has all the stuff and ships very quickly.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

I put this on the backburner, but have to get this done.

Does rockauto also have the steel Y too for stock pump? I cannot find it there yet - seen the plastic ones. If they do, can you share the rockauto part number for the steel Y if rockauto? Thanks

To Harvie;
 

Thanks for contributing your fixes, and for taking the time to photograph and provide the source material to those items you trust.

It is the willingness of several posters here to share their knowledge and experience (and opinions), and to take their valuable time to support us all that makes this site one of the best, if not the very best, in the Corvette world.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

Wow, so you're saying the OE setup has those wires unprotected and unrestrained by the end of the filler neck? I haven't had ours apart (yet!) but that sounds like it should have made the papers by now.

Personally I have no problem with plastic fittings - they do a lot for their weight. I'm sure converting all the pressure lines in these cars to braided & s/s could add 50lbs.

Anyone can make a bridge stand up forever. It takes engineering to make one just barely stand up forever.

While I am definitely not a GM fan in general, I do have some sympathy for the engineering behind the first few ignition switch problems - I mean really, how many pounds should you plan for people to hang on their ignition key? Once this problem came to light though it should have been handled very differently - all management's fault in my humble opinion.

Cheers,
- Jeff

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

The lowest bidder does not always get the GM contract, by any means. There are several parameters that are considered from any vendor. Quality parameters are the biggest part of the bid process. I know this from experience working at GM. Not just opinion. Pretty bold statements have been stated that are not true at all.

While replacing the fuel pumps, I always install new hoses and stainless clamps. Generally, the plastic clamps are brittle and break, from my experience.

It's not rocket science at this point. It's also only about a 30 min job.

Re: Replacing the in tank fuel stuff w/current tech
 

After all this, I just kept the new pump stock and just added a steel clamp at the top.
I did see where the old wires in tank were missing insulation from rubbing on the sharp edge so I did use the wire ties like Harvy outlines. it would have been nice if the fuel pump hole was larger, but got it done (didn't rush anything and it took about 35 minutes). I had a harder time changing out the fuel filter (floor ramps) than changing the fuel pump. what a major major major pita without a shop lift

The car felt lethargic - slow and took a while to crank when warm, but thankfully didn't break down.
I changed the fuel pump and filter out recently (with new plugs / dielectric grease), and now that it has the proper fuel pressure, it runs very strong now and starts up quick when warm now too. It's like night and day, huge improvement!!