An OHV guy finally gets it
 

There's been another of those OHV v DOHC threads going on the OTHER board
in the C7 section. Myself and 5ab have been participating. I posted a pic of my latest dyno results. Well "discomonkey" insists that GM is using OHV because its better than DOHC, while I submit that $$$ has a LOT to do with it.

If you're interested, here's a good spot to pick up the thread:

http://forums.c***********m.com/1585646292-post105.html

What's priceless is his reaction when he realizes my motor is a 5.7L.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Interesting. Corvetteforum is blocked again

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

I wish I had never looked, that stuff is just irritating....I do like how they compare 427 LS motors to a 350

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

He didn't know! He thought I posted a dyno for a 427 LT-5. It was delicious.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

These guys kill me, if the ZR-1 was such an epic failure and motor was not up to snuff....why did they name the new "ZR1" what they did? Pretty obvious the ZR1 name is now reserved for the best of the best Corvettes for a reason..

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Funny to read the religious argument, not something I even knew existed. I come from a world where the pushrod is considered barely above the wheel, so to see someone arguing about it being a superior design is frankly unbelievable to me. Sure GM has pushed an anachronism way beyond expectations, and just like Porsche's rear engine design, it works far better than it has any right to.

But to argue light weight and lower complexity on ANY reciprocating design is frankly ludicrous. A rotary engine is a 1st round TKO. And when you remove internal combustion entirely, an electric motor drops a nuke on them. Thanks for the morning entertainment!

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Tell chucksZ06 I fart in his general direction. What a tool


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

That's hysterical. I didn't know you were French GC! :sign10::sign10:

Lee,

And GM recently copyrighted LT-5 too. I don't have any expectation but just sayin.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Two Strokers???
Simple with good power!

I like my Z06, my ZR-1, my three Duramax's and even my strate 6.

The V6 is a waste low torque; needs a turbo!

The truth be known I like all cars and trucks; I don't care who makes them.

I want them all!

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

John, get back to work!!!!!!!!!!

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Lingenfelters 415 ZR-1 produced 685 hp and ran 218MPH; beats the new ZR1 to 150 and back down to 0. ZR-1 Snakeskinner was the first to beat
the Shelby Cobras 0-100-0......they forget there are not any off the shelf heads you can buy for the LT-5, no cam phasing, weight advantages of a rear differential all things that would come with progression. Christ not to mention advancements in tire compounds!!!

I think the funniest part is no one recognizes that ZR1 was chosen because the LT-5 was a revolutionary venture for GM....notes from Tom Wallace below:


WHY ZR1? "Deciding on a name turned out to be one of the hardest parts of the project," Tom Wallace admits. ZL1 was considered, in recognition of the ultrarare 1969 aluminum big-block package (just two were sold). Z07 was postulated, but then, this car is more than "one better than a Z06," so that was rejected. Saint Zora himself said that "all Corvettes are Super Sports," so SS never got much traction. Blue Devil is fraught with meaning inside GM, not out-but it served as great inspiration for all the blue trim accents. Which left ZR1 as the most sensible choice. This is, after all, a spiritual successor to the C4 ZR1 of 1990. That car sold for the equivalent of $91,000 2007 dollars and represented the state of the automaking art at General Motors in its day. So does this one.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Lee,

Great stuff. You should post that over THERE. Its incumbent on us to counter the misinformation people like Chuck spew out. Especially w a new generation of Corvette owners, its important to set the record straight so others can appreciate what a great car the ZR-1 was(and still is). I personally REALLY like the C7. Think the Corvette team did a great job. Would own one easily.
But that's not a reason to "dog" the ZR-1 and the LT-5.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

"Ya just can't fix stupid"

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Why, you haven't worked in years!!!

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Well now I hope Ford unleashes its 5.4L DOHC Coyote motor, rumor has it to be around 600hp with no forced induction:

I am not sure if this is it or this is the SC model....will be interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgRjVdJYgrk

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

and flat plane crank!

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Ill never understand all the Gen bashing that goes on in that crowd never seen anything like it

someone let them know they drive the SAME BRAND CAR. =D>

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Is GM the only holdout for pushrod engines left? I can't think of another one being built anywhere.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Have them take a look at the results from this year's Amsoil Engine Masters Challange.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/
This was the first year they let the DOHC Ford FI mod motors compete and they swept the first three positions.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Must have been a mirage Phil.... as we all know here DOHCs cant compete. :rolleyes:

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

I think the party is over. Nay-sayers arguments have digressed to name calling - in third party.:cheers:

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

I like how they get all up in a wad about the Lingenfelter car.......oh, if your going to compare a 415 to our 427ci car its not fair..:censored:heads

We spotted you 18-20 years of technologyand still kick your a$$

BAH!:cheers:

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

I responded appropriately

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

That tool thinks we're making this stuff up. Hysterical.

Hey Lee, how long have you been retired you old geezer?

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

design work started in 86 right?

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

I just read a few threads over there and it was entertaining. There is one thing that aI keep hearing about the GEN 3 1997-2005 car(99-07 in trucks) and the GEN 4 2005-2014+ in the cars 2008-2013 in the trucks, engines.
The GEN 3 and GEN 4 engines were not specifically built for truck usage, the 345hp LS1 was introduced in the 1997 C5 Vette, and into the F-bodies in the 305hp Camaro/Firebird. The 1st truck usage of the GEN 3 engine came in the form of the 255hp KR4 4.8(replacing the GEN1-E 230hp/285lb/ft torque L30 Vortec 305) and the 270hp/315 lb/ft torque LM7 5.3L(replacing the GEN 1-E Vortec L31 350 255hp/330lb/ft torque) and was introduced in 1999 which is 3 model years after the GEN 3 LS1 was iintroduced in the 1998 Vette.
Then in 2005 the Vette made the switch to the GEN 4 400hp LS2 engine while the GMT800 trucks soldiered on with the GEn 3 285hp/295lb/ft torque 4.8 LR4 and GEN 3 295hp/335 lb/ft torque LM7 5.3l engine.
In 2008 Vette upgraded to GEN 4 LS3 with 436-430hp/428-424lb/ft torque LS3. The trucks, now designated as GMT800 finally got there new GEn 4 engines in the form of the GEN 4 295hp/305lb/ft torque LY2 4.8 liter engine, the GEN 4 315hp/338lb/ft torque 5.3 liter LY5 and the premium SUV's such as the Cadillac Escalade got the GEN 4 6.2L 403hp/417lb/ft torque L92 engine.

Fast forward to 2014-Now we have the advent of the GEN 5 engine with Direct injection and Variable Valve Timing. This is the 1st time in recent hostory where GM has dumped the latest high tech engines into the cars AND trucks at the same time. The brand new K2xx truck line gets the new GEN 5(named ECOTEC3 355hp/383 lb/ft torque 5.3 liter L83(327 cubes) engine and the GEN 5 420hp/460lb/ft torque L86 6.2 liter (376 cubes). They even snuck in a brand new V6 making 285hp/305lb/ft torque.
And the cars, specifically the new C7 Corvette Stingray with its GEN 5 455-460hp/460-465lb/ft 6.2 liter LT1 engine.

So while these engines and their architecture is shared between cars and trucks, in most instances, the technologies were usually installed in the car platforms roughly 3 model years before it was introduced into the trucks platforms. These GEn 3/4 engines work MUCH better in the car platforms than they do in the truck applications. Trucks require excellent off idle/low rpm torque and decent low-mid rpm power for accelerating will pulling. The GEN 3/4 engines simply do not have the off idle/low rpm torque that the older engines have. This is evidenced by the 4.03:1 1st gear ratios that are used by the newer trucks and cars to help to Band-Aid these issues. I think everyone can agree that the LT5 stands alone. It was designed with one single purpose, DOMINATION, and it did/does so in grand style, with big power, big potential, big revs and decent fuel economy all at the same time. The LT5 was THE engine to make all competitors take stock in their own performance powerplants, besting Chevrolets own "performance" V8 by 130hp in 1990 and by 160hp in 1993-1995 vs. L98 or 105hp vs. GEN 2 LT1. Surely THE Heart of the Beast which was THE King of the Hill.



Which brings me to a story about boat launch confrontation my lowly 1997 GEN 1-E L31 Vortec 350 5.7 liter reg cab shortbox 2wd GMC Sierra, had against a brand new 1999 GEN 3 LM7 5.3 liter Chev Silverado, and its inflated ego owner/operator. Mind you, I do understand that I was pulling under 1000lbs of Yamaha Waverunners with 2 place PWC(Personal Water Craft) trailer, a model that has a carpetted plank running down in between the 2 Waverunners. This lets you walk the entire ength of the trailer when loading, unloading. It was a Northtrail double place trailer
A very nice trailer, way out passed the width of my truck, not sure on weight, surprisingly
heavy for what it was, all steel, not an aluminum frame or anything,while this guy was pulling out a good sized boat, no idea on its weight, but it looked heavy, IMO too heavy to pull with a 1/2 ton.

In 1999 when the 270hp/315lb/ft 5.3 liter LM7 replaced the 255hp/330lb/ft 5.7 L31 in the 1/2 ton trucks/SUV platforms, there was an uprising of owners complaining of the lack of off idle/low rpm torque of the new GEN 3 engines as compared to the older 350 SBC's. Owners who used to pull their boats up ramps in 4wd, were having to engage 4Low in order to pull the boats out of the water. I was waiting in the boat launch lineup and a guy with a brand new 1999 Silverado 4x4 was bragging about how much more power his truck had vs. my OLD 1997 2wd reg cab shortbox. He was quite a bit older than me, I was 19 or 20 at the time, so he was talking down to me the whole time.
He said" Have fun getting that thing up outta the ramp with 2wd and those drag slicks, I have a tow strap that you can borrow when you get stuck". I didnt bite, I contained my mouth and just said "Thanks, hopefully I dont need it" I knew that the newer GEN3 engines do work well once you get the revs over 3500-4000rpm. He continues
"This truck has over 300hp bone stock, I'm gonna get a chip and get 350 hp". I replied "Are you sure about that, I thought only the 6.0 liter's had 300hp."
He said "ya, that's right, the 6 liter, that's what I got" (and then the classic response that EVERY wing nut that thinks they have something special uses) " I had to special order it, the saleman at the dealership told me all about it". I thought to myself, well this guy had GM install a 6 liter in his truck, and no one else, he must have connections. I didnt even try to get into the conversation about this magical 50 hp tune he was going to get.(sarc)

Off on a tangent,
(his truck was a 1999 Silverado LD1500 4x4, as such the largest engine that GM installed was the 270hp LM7, the 300hp LQ4 engine was only available in the 1500HD, 2500 and 2500HD with the heavier 4l80e transmission. It wasnt until 2005 that you could get a 1/2 ton 4wd truck with the 6.0 engine as part of the VortecMAX Performance Package, in 2004 you could get a 2wd extended cab truck with the 6.0 engine a 4l65e transmission using r.p.o. B4V "high perfomance" package aka VHO trucks or Texas trucks, only available in and around Texas, there were 513 or so of these trucks built-B4V got you, specific for B4V 20"wheels(different than SS Silverado),3.73 rear gear,8.6" 10 bolt rear, traction control, 345hp LQ9 6.0 engine, 4l65e trans, the Vortec High Output badges on teh front fender(dealer applied some are missing) and somemore stuff, for 2005 B4V- got the same, but was available in USA and Canada and it got the 14 bolt 9.5" ring gear rear axle assembly-much better axle for the more powerful 6.0 engine).
OK back now,

The guy backs his truck trailer down the ramp into the water, someone on his boat idles the boat up onto the rollers of the trailer about 1/2 way, while the truck owner climbed down the bed of his truck onto the trailer, they threw him the bow line which he connected the winch from the eyelet on the bow and brought the boat onto the trailer all the way. He then climbed back up the bed and got into the cab. He applies the brakes, looks up at me like he was about to show me how it's done as I was standing perched on the cement retaining wall right beside his drivers door, and shifts into drive, releases the brakes, and gives her some throttle and the truck trailer moves up a few feet and as the boat starts to come up out of the water, the truck stops. he backs up a foot, then puts her back in drive and then truck moves again then stops. Then he really gives it some throttle and it was like he was doing a brake stall, lots of straining, but no moving. I could literally feel his blood pressure skyrocketting, and after another back up attempt with another heavy throttle attempt, he finally selected 4 low and pulled his boat out of the water.

I get into my truck, back my double jetskit trailer in down the launch, my buddy drives his Waveblaster 2 onto his side, then he goes and gets my GP1200 and drives it onto the trailer. I put my 2wd shortbox into drive and start to move, we leave our waverunners running as we pull the truck/trailer out, because as I begin to pull, my buddy ensures the bow is against the winch stop then gives my waverunner some throttle and as long as water gets into the pump it helps to push the trailer/truck up the ramp. Then when out of the water, they each gets a quick bounce off of the rev limiter to blow the water out of the pump assemblies. Being 2wd the extra push helps, and there is always a ton of sand on the ramp so I usually end up doing a bit of a rolling burnout with the tires in the water. Traction was very limited that day as I had just bolted on a set of 325/50/15 BFGoodrich Drag radials on 15" x 10" chrome steelies the day before, but they were new, so they had the most tread, that they ever would. I should have swapped them off for more appropriate tires, but oh well. That was the 1st and last time I towed the waverunners with DR's. At 27" tall with the 4.10 rear gears and 3.06:1 1st gear of the 4l60e trans, for a 12.5:1 1st gear final drive ratio, made it fun while pulling up out of the water. Once the exhaust boom tubes came out of the water, it sound really good. I got a couple thumbs up and some "Yeaaaw's" from a couple bystanders. Once I have everything up out of the ramp, I pull up next to Mr. new Silverado in order to apply my 2 tie downs, attach the bow eyes to the winches , pull the drains out of the machines and do a quick circle check. Mr. 4wd doesnt say a word and as I am just about done my cicle check, I say "Have a nice day, see you next weekend".
He said "later", I could tell he was pissed", but I felt great as he was talking down to me about my older model 2wd.
We got in my truck and I manually selected 1st gear, and got wound her up to 3000rpm just creeping along at about 3000rpm, racking the pipes just cruisng at the beach. It was a great day.

I used to have a buddy that worked at one of the local GM dealerships, and the techs said that lots of people would come and test drive the new GMT-800 (99-07) 1/2 ton trucks with the 5.3 and we really impressed with the 270hp@5200rpm/315lb/ft torque@4000rpm. Compare that to the 255hp@4600rpm/330lb/ft torque@2800rpm Vortec 350 L31 that the 1996-99 GMT-400 trucks came with. The 5.3 had 15hp more, but at 600rpm higher with 15 lb/ft less with the torque peak occuring at 1200rpm higher. The 88-99 GMT-400 trucks are also lighter than the GMT-800 trucks when compared on an apples to apples basis. (88-95 TBI LO5 350 200-210hp/290-300 lb/ft torque, 88-95 TBI 305 LO3 had 170hp/260 lb/ft torque, then the Vortec engines with 8 intake manifold bolts ran from 1996-1999 in teh GMT-400 style trucks, and in the 3/4-1 ton trucks that GMT-400 style ran through MY2000) The GMT-400 trucks had a powerplant change in between MY 1995 and 1996 akin to the L98 to LT1 swap which occured in between MY1991 and MY1992 in the Corvette.

Of course during test drives the potential buyer will romp on the throttle to "see what she'll do". During such unloaded WOT test drives the truck felt OK, slightly less "omph" out of the whole but once the revs came up the power impressed them. But then upon buying the trucks, they get their trailers hooked up, and then they feel the torque loss. They are having to tow in 3rd gear and even 2nd gear in order to keep up in the power band.
Many complaints were made, some even went and swapped their new GMT-800 trucks wit hethir GEN 3 5.3, for 1999 GMT-400 trucks either 1/2 ton, or 3/4-1 ton trucks with their GEN 1-E Vortec 350 engines. Some swapped their GMT-800 1/2 tons with 5.3's for GMT800 style 3/4 ton trucks with the GEN 3 300hp@4800rpm/355lb/ft torque@4000rpm. Doing this forced the buyers to get the 4l80e with their high 2.48:1 1st gear ratios, vs. the 1/2 ton's 4l60e's with their 3.06:1 1st gear ratios, this trans upgrade occurred when going from 1/2 ton to 3/4-1 ton in both the GMT-400 and GMT-800 style of trucks.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Hog,

I think the difference we see now with the Gen5 is that in previous generations,
emissions and mpg requirements were on 2 tracks for cars/trucks. That isn't happening now accelerating the technology transition for trucks. I would still maintain that the development of Gen3 and 4 motors was always done w an eye on the truck segment. Given that commercial sales of trucks is a significant portion of that segment, I would expect change at a somewhat slower pace than in a consumer driven market.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

I can agree with that, sdurely the truck segment was taken into account during GEN 3 development in the 90's. The GMT-400 88-99 trucks were the truck that started "Sport Truck" scene, and around that time truck/SUV sales went through the roof.

Truck emmisions sure had a part in this, esp. in the Medium Duty category. GM held onto the 366(6.0) and 427(7.0) into 1998 truck Big Block Chev's with the 4 piston rings with tall deck blocks running Throttle Body Injection(TBI), when they were replaced with the 454(7.4 liter) Vortec rpo L21. The L21 454 by all intents and purposes thought it was an overgrown GEn 3 LS1. It shared the PCM of the LS1, had a crank mounted 24x reluctor under the timing cover, had Coil Near Plug(CNP) ignition, and had Electronic Throttle Control(ETC). It shared heads, cam, block with the 1996-2000 Vortec 454 rpo L29 used in the 1996-2000 3/4 and 1 ton LD (heavy duty when compared to the 1/2 ton trucks, but in the overall scale of trucks Class1 through 8, the 3/4 and 1 ton GM trucks were considered light duty, just like any 3/4-1 ton Ford or Dodge).
The Vortec 454 L21 was found in the 1998 P30 vans and 1999 Topkick/Kodiak, some buses and the GM P30 chassis used for 26,000lb gvrw motorhomes. The 8.1 GEN 7 BBC took over medium duty roles in 2001 for the most part.
Because the L21 used the 512 kb PCM with p/n 16232148 along with ETC, there were some cool features such as Fast Idle and cruise control and rev limits and Torque Management were all available through the electronic throttle body. The L21 was the 1st BBC to use CNP/ETC as it was the precursor to the GEN 7 L18 8.1 liter(496 cube) BBC used in all applications from 2001 up. The GEN 8.1 8.1 BBC also uses a tall deck block with a 4.25" bore and 4.37: stroke. This engine runs the LS1 firing order
1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3 and is rated at 340hp@4200rpm/455 lb/ft torque. Common marine versions of the GEn 7 8.1 had ratings of 375hp called the HP1, a tad more camshaft and you were at 425hp in the HP2.

In the early 2000's, GM asked a few marine engine builders to come up with a cylinder head program that would take the stock GEN 7 8.1 iron truck heads and boost their output in an attempt to run against the Mercury Racing's "Black" 525hp 502 race engines in APBA (American Power Boating Association). GM came up with contingency awards to APBA race team who ran their 8.1 Vortec HP3 marine engines and also used a GM truck equipped with an 8.1 BBC to tow their race boats with. GM was trying to tie the Vortec HP3 marine engines success with that of a durable and dependable truck engine.

In the end Innovation Marine In Florida was named the OEM(Original Equipement Manufacturer) to marinize the Vortec HP3 8100 V-8 high-performance engine. The announcement was made at a media briefing in Key West at the APBA World Championships.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

Hog, where do you come by this information, what a wealth of knowledge.

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

I do a lot of reading, my posts are a compilation of reading. I was also raised in a drag racing/auto mechanic environment. I have worked in some GM assembly plants and talked to engineers, and have email buddies.
I refer to my notes fot the part numbers, to ensure accuracy, but a lot of te einfo comes from GM itself.

p

Re: An OHV guy finally gets it
 

I do a lot of reading, my posts are a compilation of reading. I was also raised in a drag racing/auto mechanic environment. I have worked in some GM assembly plants and talked to engineers, and have email buddies.
I refer to my notes fot the part numbers, to ensure accuracy, a lot of the info comes from GM itself. Ive also done a few EFI retrofits. I was teh 1st Canadian, 2nd North American to install across ram MArine intake onto the 1996-1999 GMT-400 trucks. I passed the visual inspection and tail pipe dyno sniffer with this intake swap alkong with longtube headers. It was a project that a few guys collaborated with. The intakes came off of the 1997+ marine 350's that used the Vortec 8 intake bolt pattern. The issue with the stock intake/injectors is that the Central Sequential Fuel Injection(CSFI) thatw as used on teh 96-2000 Vortec 350/350 engines used poppet valves that didnt allow for larger units to be installed. We were stuck at 23 lb/hr of fuel. The most we got=out of a stock CSFI intake on a 383 engine with home ported Vortec heads, LT$ hotcam kit 218°/228° 0.525"/0.525" lfit with the LT4 hotcam kit's 1.6:1 roller rockers on a 112° LSA. The roller rockers are very similar to the rockers used on the 1996/97 LT4 engines.
With headers/exhaust it dynoed at 330rwhp/381 rwtq. ALong with a 3000rpm Vigilante torque converter from Precision Industries and 4.39 gears with 395/40 zr17 drag radials it ran a best of 13.2@ 102mph in an extended cab 2wd truck. No bad for a 4800 lb daily driver. But there was no more to be had, and if anyone went with a supercharger of turbo, you couldnt get above 250 at the crank withoiut additional fuel injectors. (such as using a Fueler like the early Callaway B2K turbos cars did with teh 2 extra injectors at the Rams horn intake)

Stock CSFI intake, look at all the injector debris inside the plenum
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ctordebris.jpg

Cross Ram Marine intake(inside with the upper plenum lifted off), compare to teh above stock intake. Much better
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...orn/marine.jpg

MArine crossram intake left, stock truck intake, right
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...idebyswide.jpg

Here is one atop a GM marine crate engine GM called this an IAFM Integrated Air Fuel Module. These were used atop Mercruiser 305,350, 383, 6.2 engine.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...rhorn/iamf.jpg

Same as above, but used and having the Mercruiser red paint on it
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...intakeside.jpg

Other options we had was the Ramjet 350 intake as well.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...mjetintake.jpg

Or the BBK turtle intake, or any intake that held port fuel injectors and had the Vortec GEN 1-E's 8 vertical intake bolts, 2 at each corner of the intake, versus the older GEN 1 non-Vortec 12 angled intake bolts.

Using the cross ram intake, we are seeing 330rwhp with flat torque curves from 1800rpm-5000rpm with tiny 203° duration roller cams. Using the stock intake, it took LT4 hotcams and 383 cubes to get the same power.
Olus if you get any stock Vortec 305/350 K&N or similar air intake, or Whipple supercharger kit, or any other turbo or supercharger kit for the1996-1999 Vortec 305/350 van/truck/SUV the kit will bolt on 100% as the Marine intake's throttle body is on teh stock location. It actually uses the truck t-body because teh marine t-body has no attachment for the trucks cruise control.
I oersonally didnt need the extra fueling, I did it because I wanted to prove that it could be done, and done economically. There were a lot of naysayers. The advent of Tunercats OBD2 back in 2005 really opened up the possibilities for us GMT 400 Vortec V8 truck enthusiasts.
The marine intake lists for over $4000 for the upper and lower intake, fuel rails, 8 25 lb/hr stainless steel marine injector etc etc etc. I picked mine up used for $600 and did the complete retrofit for just under $1000 including the PCM tuning. You can get these intakes for $1800 from Michigan Motorz. I have seen the V6 versions for V8 Vortec heads go on Ebay BRAND NEW for $199. Great for the turbo V6 crowd.

Stock intake, to marine intake, with only the Injector Flow Rate(IFR) changed to compensate for the larger injectors, resulted in a big grin on my face. Even with the stock 191°/196° 0.412"/0.428 111°LSA cam ( cam also used in GEN 2 1994-96 Caprice with iron head LT1 260hp/330 lb/ft and GEN 2 iron head 4.3L V8 L99 caprice 200hp/240 lb/ft torque-and also in the1996-2003 vans/trucks/SUV), off idle torque was improved and instead of hitting a substantual horsepower wall at 5000rpm, power and revs continued up to the stock limiter of 5600rpm. There are now many of the conversions on the road today.

Sorry for another book.