WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Okay guys I ran my car on the dyno and here is what I have found. Below is the original thread about the water meth injections.
http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=11233
Dyno run was done with an outside air temp of 64F. Water Meth injection is more popularly used with boosted vehicles since the air intake temp is heated up from the compression of air and the water meth injection cools the compressed air thus allowing for more usable power not being robbed from the hot air. Naturally aspirated high compression engines such as ours will benefit from the use of the water meth injection when the outside air temp is high, say in the mid to high 90s and your car is breathing in all that hot air off the asphalt.

TEST #1 BASE RUN
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i6...ps5017a61f.jpg
BASE Run no Water/Meth injection. Chart above. Temp 64F, Water Temp 180F at WOT.

Test #2 50/50 mix
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i6...psc4293956.jpg
Chart above was with 50/50 mix injection. I think this run is void due to I had a 5 min cool down then ran WOT. Upon completion my engine temp was 198F. I believe my engine was heat soaked and therefore my power was down. The injection of the 50/50 mix did not make a difference during that run.

TEST #3
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i6...ps0cf24dbc.jpg
Test #3 was run with a 75%met and 25% water mixture. I allowed the engine to cool back down to the original run temp. It resulted in 2 more HP and 6 lbs of torque more. I believe with a little more Meth it might have been more.

So for all you guys wondering how it will affect your LT5, now you know. I will continue to tweek it with a little more meth in the future. It seems to run better with more Meth than the original 50/50 mix. The benefits as stated are that it does raise your octane and help clean your pistons and valves when using it. During the summer it may be the best aid in reducing the heat in the intake and allow for full power. As you know the LT5 does not like heat.

I like the results, let me know if you have any questions.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

First run with no water/meth ... (NO water and NO meth???) That was just about equal to the best pull...

:confused:

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Yep....... only 2 more HP and 6 lbs of torque added. Soooooo with the outside air temp at a nice 64F the results may not seem so impressive. But.... when the air temp is 95F plus, the water meth will cool down the air going into your engine and may return HP that would otherwise been decreased due to hot intake air temp.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Makes sense there Sir! (more twist than mine, with OR without!)

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Tony,

What r the mods on the car again?

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Self ported heads and intake/ Inj Housing
Stage 1 reground cams (Aaron Scott) intake and exhaust
Watson Headers 1 3/4
B&B 3" exhaust with X-pipe
Alum Flywheel
3.91 gears
and bling....

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Stage 1 Cams. Assuming intake and exhaust then, correct?

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Yes Sir, correct.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Tony,

We should document this and put it in the Newsletter!!!

Interested?

Great stuff!

:cheers:

David

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Dave, PM sent...

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Tony,

I notice the dyno sheet says these are STD correction numbers. Any chance you have SAE correction or would these be available? If SGC has those on file, it can be easily converted using DynoJets WinPep software.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

I can get those from Aaron if necessary. Uncorrected HP was 447HP I heard him say. I'll give him a call later.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Awesome test, thanks for posting that up for us.

Was your tune changed at all? I wonder if you could tweak more from messing with the timing, since your running higher octane when on the meth? ---

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Read above, this may answer your question about advancing the timing. I believe more timing doesn't add anything with our engine. It is pretty much at its best.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Tune modified by Marc Haibeck for engine mods but not Meth injection. A/F ratio not really affected by added Meth being sprayed. Look at A/F ratio on Dyno sheets.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Tony,

On my last series of dyno tuning, I had timing cranked to 34D. No knock but when I dropped it to 31D with an AFR change, picked up 8-10rwhp.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

That clears things up.

I just was thinking the Syclone / Buick guys advance the timing and add more boost when using the meth ... big hp gains follow :)

Thanks ---

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

For those who missed my installation pictures.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

That is cool, I didn't want to modify my own calibration just for the use of water/meth injection. I didn't want my engine dependent on using it all the time, only when I deemed necessary.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Do you have it spraying at a certain RPM , or just when you manually turn it on? ---

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

WOT, switch is vacuum activated. Zero vacuum = activation of pump.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Thanks for making the effort to do this test Tony. I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised but your results pretty much confirmed my suspicions.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

I know 2hp and 6 more pounds of torque is not impressive but the temp was 64 degree. When it is 95 plus outside the benefits may be more impressive as the cooling effect returns power that would otherwise be reduced due to hot air being ingested. I still think there is more to gain, I am not convinced that this is all. I will keep trying until I get the mix right.

I plan to retest this summer and will slowly increase my alcohol mix until it is pure methanol. I have to know if there is any more out of this to gain. I am still optimistic about this endeavor. At least I know this product will help clean my pistons and prevent detonation when it gets hot.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Next test is with a larger nozzle. The kit comes with 3 nozzles for HP ratings. I am currently using the middle nozzle that is for 350-525 HP. My engine is at about 520 now. I am going to go to the bigger nozzle that is for 525-700HP range. Hopefully I will gain something more since my 350 is ingesting a lot more air than stock. :pray

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Those are gains at the peaks, it looks as though torque gains are greater lower down in the rpm range.

peace
Hog

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Hog, you are correct. I had not noticed it but before until you mentioned it. I need the numerical readout of the runs instead of the graph to really analys the data. That explains perhaps why my car now blows the tires away in 1st gear when before it wouldn't even with my drag radials. Thank you for noticing.=D>

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

I've attended several dyno days and your results seem to be within the margin of error when no changes are performed run to run. So, I'm not sure your seeing any real change at all with the outside temp at 64 deg. I do however think you'll get considerably more power on a 100 deg day with the Meth than you would without it however I bet you'll still max-out below the numbers on a 64 deg day.

Hope to see you run the same test in Aug...

BTW - I'm probably going to install something like your system on my Turbo car just as an added safety measure.

Cheers,
RH

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

give the turbo a drink of alchy and it will love it.

I agree with Ron H. even shooting pure alchy on a non boosted LT5 which it will quench any detonation you are having, I'm not sure you'll see much of a gain. if your air fuel ratio is correct without it and no detonation, it will just "richen up" and not really pick up and HP.

you'll have to retune to take advantage of the alchy, or somehow increase the CFM of airflow through the engine to take advantage of the additional fuel. the "cooling of the intake charge density" is certainly worth some power in the warmer weather, but I wouldn't drown the car just yet.

run a wide band sensor to see what the air fuel ratio is and don't go any richer than 11.5 or so at WOT or you'll likely see the HP go in the wrong direction.

turning the boost knob is a whole 'nother story

boost loves alchy and supplementing the fuel supply to keep the car from running lean or just giving the additional cooling/octane rating to allow more boost does wonders.

I go from 13 psi on pump 600 rwhp to 800 rwhp at 17 psi with the pure alchy running full flow with a couple of jets on the TT Z06

my only worry is that if the alchy pump fails it will run lean in a hurry which is why I have an wideband o2 sensor that I can peak at and the IAT can pull timing before I burn a piston

the biggest thing I have learned is that 600 rwhp is the "practical" limit of a non drag radial tire (I run Toyo RA1 335/30/18) or hoosier 17 315 drag radials to hook up and even then it's "rolling on the throttle with a good touch to keep from just going up in smoke.

the traction control also can't react fast enough to "catch" the torque spike which can get exciting in the wrong way at WOT

need the boost by mph boost controller setup to really do this right and keep the power ramping up smoothly from 600 to 800 rwhp and bring in the alchy only up top. not setup to do that ..... yet

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

If you do another dyno test Tony I suggest that you use the digital temp gauge and start each run at the same exact engine temp - this will cut down on variables. A hot weather test sounds worthwhile.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

I was using digital temp gauge and also have wideband A/F gauge. Tomorrow I am installing larger nozzle and retest on the 18th Feb.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

thanks tony, good luck with the test. be interested to see where the AF needs to be to make best power.

LPE "leaned out" my engine as much as 13-1 trying to get just a bit more power

with alchy you might be able to run that lean or even a tad bit leaner and make better power. lean is mean but not very "safe"

I'd love to tune an LT5 on e85 and see what it could do.

would be a fun experiment. I'm trying to sell my turbo buick to keep my other hot rod projects going. but after driving it the last few days in the cool air it makes me want to slap an alcy kit on it and just crank up the boost! that old buford is every bit as fast as the LSV and puts as much to the ground with only 6 cyl on low boost. at 24 PSI, foggedabout it, it's up over 600 at the tire on race gas.

keep us posted.

Re: Tony D's (WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results)
 

My engine currently is 13.0 at WOT. It seems to make the most power at that A/F ratio. When it was at 12.5 power was down a bit.

The alchy didn't make much if any difference to my A/F ratio during the runs. Perhaps because the amount of alchy needed to equal the power of gasoline are not equal. You need a lot more alchy sprayed into the motor to equal the power of gasoline therefore that may be the reason for no change. Just my guess.:icon_stud I'll report back after my re-dyno run next week.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Update: After a careful review of my two dyno runs I discovered that I gained 10 hp and 10 lbs of TRQ from 2500-5500 RPM with a peak of 2hp and 3lbs TRQ. It isn't a whole bunch but my intention was to prevent detonation and use the cooling affect of the water/meth. The car does feel better when running WOT with it on.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Update graphic comparison.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

The LT-5 isn't a motor prone to detonation, certainly not at the top end. I've had mine on the dyno cranked to 35d and all it does is lose power. Torque peak is where you need to be less aggressive w timing to avoid detonation. So 4500-5500rpm. Having said that, you run through that rpm range PDQ and don't really re-visit that area at WOT even when shifting.
As for AFR, I find my motor makes best power at an indicated 13:1. I'm going to re-test that given that we use e10 here and calibrate based on Lambda rather than AFR.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Yeah your right, my goal was just to help cool the intake charge when it is hot outside to maybe return some power that is robbed from the heat. And... to keep my valves clean. I like it. Works for me.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Thanks for updating this Tony. My engine is getting the water/meth treatment not so much for the power. As helping reduce carbon buildup on the valves etc. I believe that big cam reversion makes the carbon build-up more of a problem.

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Exactly! :handshak:

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Methanol is a chemical intercooler that on n.a. engines does its job in the combustion chamber and acting as an octane booster.

I do not think it will add more power in the warmer weather. I would add timing and see what happens.

Check this video out.

http://www.powerblocktv.com/episodes...al-intercooler

Re: WATER /METH INJ Dyno Run results
 

Yes I agree, not add more power......... but recover some power in hot weather.