Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

So I'm seriously planning on buying a ZR1 in about 2 years. I currently drive a 1992 6-speed coupe, polo green with tan interior. I love it, but the ZR1 is my really my dream car, I just love C4's.

I've been trying to figure out if I should go through with this. Some things I was thinking:

Pros:
Rare/Interesting/Cool
Fast
Reliable?
Great Handling
It's a freakin' ZR1!
Permagrin :D

Cons:
Hard to find parts? I drive my cars hard...
Expensive to buy and maintain?
Hard to find the one I want (must be a 91 or later 6-speed, no red interior, not afraid of high miles)

The ones with question marks I'm obviously not too sure about, that's why I'm here! I'm finding cost to be the only downside of the ZR1 vs my current LT1 Corvette. Is it worth the upgrade? I'm heavily leaning towards yes, but I just want to make sure I know what I'm getting into!

Note: I'll be an engineer in a couple of years so I should have some money! :)

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

My question is, why wait? Your car might be worth $12k-$16k and some very nice ZR1s are available in the low to mid $20s, not too bad a gap to bridge. Personally I would look for one of the '93-'95s, as you can tell from my choices. Rarer and with some engineering improvements over the earlier ones, but the earlier ones might be less expensive depending on condition and miles. No problem with parts; the engine is bulletproof and the rest are just C4 problems with which you are familiar. Many common repair issues are DIY ones, and the availablity of helpful repair information and counsel here is amazing. And don't be afraid of high miles. I sold my '93 with 74,000 miles to a well known ZR-1 enthusiast :-) and it now has more than 100,000 miles. Regardless of whether you wait, many ZR-1s are known to this group and there are many here who will help by finding and evaluating cars for you. Good luck with your search. --Bob

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

The first Corvette I bought was a 1996 LT4, six-speed Collectors Edition. I had been looking at LT4 and ZR-1. I loved the LT4. But, even after I bought it, I kept looking to figure out if the ZR-1 was really better. Then I got to drive a ZR-1. I was hooked. I bought a 1993 ZR-1 just 7 months after the LT4.

My advice is to get in touch with one of the many ZR-1 owners in the Northeast region that post here and they will be glad to give you a ride and probably a test drive.

As to your questions:

Reliable? Yes, in my experience. I have made many long trips in my ZR-1's. The latest was last August, 30 days, 10,000 miles from Maryland to Alaska and back in a ZR-1 with 120,000 miles . No Problems. Keep in mind that ZR-1's are twenty (or so) year old cars. there will be some issues.

Hard to find parts? I don't know of any ZR-1 that is out of commission due to lack of parts. Some parts require effort to track down, but the support and knowledge of the owners here in the Registry is invaluable. There are quite a few parts suppliers like Jerry's Gaskets and Parts who specialize in parts for our ZR-1's

Expensive to buy and maintain? I am sure you understand that you always pay for performance. Most owners don't put bargin store oil in their LT5. ZR-1's cost more than base C4's. But, there are ZR-1's on the market regularly that are a very good value.

Hard to find the one you want? Part of the fun is the search. If you are not in a hurry and use the internet, you will find a nice ZR-1 that meets your needs.

Good luck,

Jim

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Thanks for the help! I can't buy one just yet because I'm still a junior in college and I don't have the money to afford a ZR1. My car is in pretty good shape, but it does have 114k miles. I drive A LOT so when I do sell it, it will probably have 150k on it. I could maybe sell it for what I bought it for, $6,500 (I got a great deal).

The one I REALLY want is a ZR1 that's just like my current car; polo green 6-spd with tan interior. I imagine that's being a bit too picky though...

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

There were 129 Polo Green II ZR-1's built from 1992 to 1995. Of those, 109 had the Lt Beige (Tan) interrior.

Polo Green ZR-1's were about 2.4% of ZR-1's, counting the 1990-91 version of Polo Green

Good Luck,

Jim

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

that's not that hard. the majority fall into this category since all of them are 6 speeds. Somehow in the 5 years of production GM never figure out how to fix the rear tire issue. They always seem to wear out before the fronts.
.

Since this car came into my family in 1999 it's had the water pump, injectors (twice), blown off the map sensor more times then I care to count, radio/speakers replace...and the front one still doesn't work properly I don't think, antenna replaced, head light motors replaced...that was a pain in the ***, the lights would stay on which was a stuck door switch which was fixed with some wd40, the failing injectors killed my o2 sensors, and the backup switch failed. Oh i forgot about the horn, that works whenever the hell it feels like it. The lack of tire choice in the factory size is annoying and expensive but going up to 18" wheels is even more so.

i have a love/hate relationship with my car. it's a bit like owning a 2 year old child, it's really annoying a lot of the time but if someone tried to take it away, I'd kill them

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Looks like maybe your rear wheels need swapped side to side or since it's a '92MY I guess it could be a "corner swap" RF to LR ! A ZR-1 will correct that issue for you!

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Post up agian in the spring. I'll take a ride down and let you go for a spin. That in itself will convince you. -Steve

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Sounds like it's been a lot of work and a lot of money.... but that goes with being an owner of any older Corvette. I'm not sure if those problems are enough to make me not buy one though :)

Lol, that picture is old, all of the wheels are now facing the right way.

Thank you! I'd love to drive one, from what I hear I may not be able to wipe the smile off my face for at least a day after driving it. :D

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Of all the things that have broken, needed service, or cosmetic enhancement, the actual engine wasn't one of them. The LT5 itself will be the most reliable part of a ZR-1. The rest of the usual failures are all C4, maybe worse since the engine has more power and the car weighs a bit more- which is harder on the chassis, brakes and drivetrain.

Since it is a more premium model, you might find yourself wanting to fix and restore the car a little more than with your LT1 car. It is also going to be more money to purchase, so you will be into the car for about double what the same LT1 car equivalent would cost you. This might sour your experience some, but it could be offset by the unique experience of the extra power.

I actually enjoyed driving my LT1 car just as much, except for when BMW's used to kick my *** from time to time. Basically figure to pay about twice as much as you are now and then decide if you would rather have a C5.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

My best advice would be to finish your studies and then look around for a ZR-1. There is no down side really once you realize that you will be buying an antique. Just come to grips with that fact and you will be okay with whatever money you will have to put into the car to get it back to top condition. That would apply even if you were going to buy a late C6 by the time you graduate and get established in your profession. Any used car...is well a used car, some are just a little newer than others and will afford you some time before you have to start some type of restoration process, but eventually they all need to be "gone thru" in order for them to be "new" again. I can tell you for a fact if you like to use your toys a lot, after you do the needed restoration work to make it "new" again, there is nothing like the feeling of owning a well sorted out sports car. You know what I'm saying? It's the confidence in the car that says, "Drive to California tomorrow? Let's leave now and beat the traffic! I'm ready now, and so is my car!";)

Speaking as a rookie C4 owner....you have a major jump on owning a ZR-1 because you will already know all the C4 quirks and how to address them properly and efficiently. I am still learning the C4 and all it's nuances. The ZR-1 part is strictly a matter of learning the LT5. Oh, there is the matter of ZR-1 body parts, they are sort of extinct. If none of that stuff causes you too much concern, then I say you could do much worse in choosing which toy to get yourself! Oh, one more thing about ZR-1's.....this is a bit out in left field too!:o Owning a ZR-1 is not so much a buying decision as it is a calling. The car speaks to you....even long before you ever sit in one. In your mind's eye you see yourself piloting one down some deserted road at night, and you see yourself grinning from ear to ear by the light from the panel, and you think.... "This is just too cool!" If that happens, well yes, you've got it bad and you have to have one!:thumbsup:

:cheers:
Tom

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

I think the only thing I have worked on is the Bose speakers over all the years but I would still like to sell it. My 135i BMW has been back to the dealer a lot lot more................

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

The only CON I can see is that I keep wanting more of them!!!!;)

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

now keep in mind this has been since 1999

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Jagdpanzer....

My wife will no longer ride in mine......something about 'the speed limit'....

She doesn't care about the maintenance..

:-({|=

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

I have no problem paying around 20k for the car I want. I've been in a C5 and, while they are a great car, they don't have the cockpit feel of the C4, which is one of my favorite things about my car. I also don't like the looks as much.
One of the things about the ZR1 that really draws me in is the fact that they are/will be classics, yet they are still fast and generally reliable. Plus I would LOVE to have an LT5 under the hood, everyone says they sound like nothing else :)

Like I said, I'm okay with paying a little bit of money for the ZR1 because it's a car I'd like to keep for a very long time. Luckily I've already bought my first Corvette at age 20 and it's a C4 so I'm familiar with many of the problems of these cars.
I've definitely been called by the ZR1! I love my car, but when I'm driving it I wish I could crank it to 7000+ rpm. I must have one....



yeah I have it bad :D

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Yeah, you're toast, Buddy. Finish school, put some cash away and start looking. Finding your Z will not be that difficult. Just be patient and don't compromise. I found the exact year, exact color combo and the mileage I wanted within a month. And they only made 21 in the color combo I wanted so I too was expecting a long search period.

You've already stepped in the right direction seeking advice here. You can't come up with a question that can't be answered here.

Looking forward to seeing your purchase...

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Pros:
Rare/Interesting/Cool
Fast
Reliable? YES
Great Handling
It's a freakin' ZR1!
Permagrin :D

Cons:
Hard to find parts? Not hard to find these parts (name a part, we can find it) I drive my cars hard... (these cars are MADE to be driven hard!!!)
Expensive to buy and maintain? (the brotherhood makes it cheaper to maintain with advice and vast owners with parts available)
Hard to find the one I want (must be a 91 or later 6-speed, no red interior, not afraid of high miles) Now is the time to buy, cars are a bargain and it's a buyers market


Some of what I said is my opinion, but the Brotherhood is alive and well here.... It's a buyers market and buy from an owner who cared for it (AND doesn't lie that he drove it hard!)

Buy, drive and enjoy!!!

:cheers:

David

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

That's exactly what I said, and now I have it. Worth the wait and search. To see some pix, click on my avatar and go to albums. I believe there were 31 green 95s but can't remember how many with Beige interiors. --Bob

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Wow, your car is exactly what I want, can I have it?? :D
Kidding, I would never give that car up if I had it!



I can't wait to become a part of the brotherhood!

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Your a C4 guy why not have the KING of the C4's? I test drove one back in 05 big mistake! Spent the rest of my spare time searching for a ZR-1. Bought one and could not be happier/satisfied more than I am. I have not had 1 issue with my car. Stay on this site and you will see how great the ownership experience will be with this brotherhood. Good Luck with your studies, looks like your parents did a good job, so far ;)

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

According to Registry website production was as follows:

Polo Green II:

1994 -

39 Total
35 Light Beige
4 Black

1995 -

31 Total
26 Light Beige
3 Black

Obviously, 26+3 is not 31 so there is a little discrepency there but you get the picture.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Just f.y.i. of the 6939 made and sold, around 5,000 were made and sold as 90-91. When gm cut its engine contract with the manufacturer of its lotus designed engine they then parceled the last 1500 engines out over the 92-95 years at about 450 or so engines/zr1's a year so you are far more likely to find a 90-91 than the others. Just remember, you are thinking about buying one of 6939 ever sold with the fantastic lt5 engine out of about 2,500,000 or so Corvettes ever sold.

Lance P.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Doesn't sound like too much of a mistake to me! I'm hopefully going to test drive one in the spring, I'm sure I'll be hooked and there will be no turning back.

My Dad was a Corvette guy; he had a 73 with an LT-1 I think. He taught me well :)

I'll definitely look for a Polo one first, but it's not a big deal if I can't find one.

Wow I didn't know that. So the 405hp ones are much rarer then huh? Is the interior of the '90 the same as the '91 or does it have the L98 dash? I'm not sure if I could live with that.... I love my current interior. I really didn't like the interior of an 88 that I test drove.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Yes, the 405 hp are but I doubt seriously you could tell the difference between the 375 and the 405. In fact, the first time you get in the car and are comfortable enough to plant your foot on a safe road you will be astonished at how hard the LT5 pulls in each gear. Here's a teaser: I shift from first at 59 mph and around 7,000 rpm, out of second at 92 mph and on up...and when shifting into third the acceleration INCREASES! These engines have 6,939 fans of incredible support. And that's before you tune them to add another 100 to 150 hp!

You also have to remember that GM horsed around with HP numbers all the time...some years they posted low numbers, early sae test numbers, then later sae test stand numbers, sometimes because the insurance industry was screaming about high horsepower, etc, etc. so you can't always believe GM hp ratings. There is one fellow here who claims to Have Lotus dyno reports showing the engines weren't 375 or 405 but something like 443 hp with Lotus running the same test gm used. GM owned lotus then and asked them to design the engine and they did. GM did not have the know how to build that technical an aluminum block with hardened aluminum sleeves engine then but Mercury Marine did in their Stillwater, Oklahoma factory did so they built all the motors, had a contract. When in 91/92 GM started or continued corporately hemoraghing money (fired chairman, ceo, lost more than $20 billion one year) the LT5 engine was very expensive...various numbers but $7-9,000 per engine in the contract price so GM limited it. Sales were less about whether people would buy the zr1 than they were there were only so many engines available.

In 1990-91 these were the most expensive cars ever listed for sale by GM. Mine on the just received window sticker with taxes and title in Texas where it was sold in Dec, 1990 was $72,000 approx. Later, some sold above sticker price when engines were limited, reportedly for as much as
$100,000. There is a book coming called The Heart Of The Beast on the engine's history.

You'll get arguments by the C6 guys who are passionate but many think the LT-5 Dohc v8 is the best engine Corvette has made to date. You can do anything with it you want just like the newer pushrods.

Just drive one once and wind it up through at least three gears. You'll sell your wife, your girlfriend, offer your mom out for service. They are fun to drive and always put a grin on your face. Handling is good though a C6 will have more modern traction control yet the handling is quite sophisticated certainly compared to my C3.

See, this is the kind of stuff you will get involved in. Buy on and you'll learn names like: Lingenfelter Performance Engineering, Marc Haibeck, F.B.I. (Fast Boys Incorporated) who can do amazing things even above and beyond. When they do, modern ZO6's have nothing on these cars for speed I'm told. Search Youtube for the black King of the Hill who runs 11.5 second 129 mph quarter mile times. Want to go 0-60 in 4.4 seconds?
Buy a stock 91 zr1.

My TBSS has a 2008 ls2 415 hp vette engine from gm performance group with a 4:10 rear end in it and my stock 1991 zr1 is way quicker...way more top end as you would expect but it's about the torque, the torque, the torque.

Some go around with permanent grins as owners, called a "Permagrin."

I could go on.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

If I'm not mistaken I believe Blue Flame Restorations has this document. This is a digitized copy that I keep in my ZR-1 file.


http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php...pictureid=1902



http://www.zr1.net/forum/picture.php...pictureid=1903

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Fantastic...that explains what happens...they pick a hp and rpm to promote and it is not necessarily the maximum. One friend not on here but who worked for GMAC said there was often pressure from insurance interests not to promote cars with real true maximum horsepower...lots of different influences. By the way, that's 6600 rpms.....my car has a rev limiter set to 7200 rpms if memory serves so hp would be higher yet...though torque would likely have peaked.


thanks for posting. that is terrific information and explains a lot of things to me.

Great stuff.

Lance Pearson

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Wow, Lance and FullyVetted, as if I wasn't fully convinced that I needed a ZR1.... now you're just driving me crazy :D

That document is quite the find, has anyone here ever dynoed their stock ZR1 to sort of verify this? I can't even imagine the amount of power the car must make up above 7000 rpm!

Oh and shifting into THIRD at 92mph?? My LT1 shifts into fourth at that speed...








Guys, the ZR1 is really calling me, I need help!

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

I think the 440 hp run was with headers. A lot of the dyno plots I've seen that power peak at that high of an rpm have different pipes. The early cars power peak near 5900 rpm with the stock cams and exhaust manifolds.

Easy gains though..and one I still don't have due to CA emissions law.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

calling you? Heck, I already own one corvette and bought the z as a second one when I started dealing with the engine I discovered when thinking about changing the 76 to a c5. You know they ran a z March 1=2, 1990 with a 3:07 rear end for 24 hours in Texas on a tire 7.7 mile test track with driver changes, tires and fuel every 80 minutes or so all night long.
They ran the car at 5500 rpms in fifth gear and averaged 190 on the straights, curves sapped down to 174 or so then back up for 24 hours with stops as above. Old record: 161 mph. Their record: 175.885 mph.
the car is in the NCM in Bowling green. The red car on the right is the one that set the record.
the other was a car with an l98 they tested which had been used in europe on other tests.

It's also where
goodyear spent $250,000 developing what we know of as the goodyear eagle f1 high speed tire to do the test. No track lights on what is now bridgestone's tire test track at Stockton, Texas.

Flat out shift points for mine are third top about 120 then fourth top about 145 then fifth? fifth is .75 to 1 and sixth is .5 to 1 ratio overdrive.

And, to make it better yet, driving the Z home from Atlanta area where I bought it I did one 100 mile stretch on I 85 at 73 mph in sixth gear and got 29.1 mpg.

The entire 515 mile drive home was 26.8 average including drives off the interstate to a motel, dinner, gas stop, pit stops. Hard to find much better package.

Everybody here will tell you this: when you first hop on it hard, all the way hard, you have to remember to breath.

Photo of the actual car attached.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

The dyno sheet in one of the previous posts above is what's in the NCRS archives for the LT5 provided to them by GM. I'm not sure if it's a copy or the original.
The above dyno sheet or "Interim Test Report" from GM Powertrain, was done @ Lotus in Hethul England it shows the results of the dyno runs they apparently used when determining the advertised horsepower for the 1993 LT5.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

That is some very easy gains, just headers getting 40hp? Are there any other relatively easy mods for the ZR1?

I've read all about the record, that's truly incredible. What a testament to how reliable the LT5 is, not many engines could handle that.
That sixth gear is awesome, I get 30mpg highway with my car all the time! I'm still in shock about your shift points, is your car stock? Does it have 3.42 gears?
I'm not sure if I could even breath, the acceleration may cave in my rib cage...

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

wait till you merge onto the highway at 120 (top of third)

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

Where are you in Ma? I'm south coast area. I'd be happy to meet up with you at some point when the roads clear up. Minimal mods and 390@the wheels. it's enough to give my friends 500hp M6 fits.

Michael

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

The pros are limitless,the cons are dealing with scum bags when it comes to finding parts.;)

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

I suspect that was with minimal to no mufflers, no cats, and an optimized chip on the engine dyno. But pretty much everybody has a chip and a cat-back- you might have a hard time finding a ZR without that stuff.

I don't think it was mentioned, but buying a modified car will save you a lot of $$ since the stuff for these cars is a little expensive compared to a SBC.

ON EDIT: The later 405hp cars had improved intake ports and a little bit more intake cam duration, but it is very common to port out the plenum and intake runners on the early cars too. this adds more hp to the 375 hp cars than the 405 hp ones I did it to mine- just need the headers to cap it off.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

For me personally, there literally are no cons, because I love these cars so much, that any con there might happen to be, is so largely outweighed by the pros, that it is a non factor! Youtube "Sick Fast C4" and you'll know why I am hooked. I also have not found a more knowledgeable and helpful owners group
:cheers:
Also don't forget to use the hyphen ZR-1=C4 ZR1=C6
:-D

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

There are cons? no really? We are going to do a road trip just before Bowling Green down the Blue Ridge parkway. Meet us there and you can take my car for a drive than ask yourself what the heck was I thinking. Or better yet, the Bowling Green reunion is for all C4 bring your C4 and pick from a slew of ZR-1 to drive.

Re: Pros and Cons of ZR1 ownership
 

1990 was the year the interior changed to the later style from the previous flat-dash with breadbox style. There were some changes to the IP from the 90 to the 95 but it is the same basic style as your C4 (oh, the tach goes a little higher ;))