Electrical Short.
 

Is there any other fuse panel other than the panel on the right side of the dash?

I am almost positive the 93 has a short. I disconnected the negative terminal off the battery and connected a meter between the Negative wire and the negative on the battery there is 12vdc present on the meter. I pulled every fuse in the fuse panel and I still have 12vdc on the meter.
I checked to see if there was any aftermarket wiring that I could see and I didnt see any.

Any Ideas?

Re: Electrical Short.
 

I would expect 12v doing what you're doing even with no short.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

Where would the live circuit be? The ignition is off and all of the fuses are pulled. There should be no circuit unless there is a short.

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I know on the 1990 " there is a fuse holder located behind the instrument panel, below and to the right of the glove compartment. To access the the fuse holder, you must remove the cover under the instrument panel on the passenger's side." That's straight from the owner's manual with a pic and an arrow pointing under the glove box. Hope that helps.

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Check amperage for a current draw, vs voltage. That will show if there's a parasitic draw. There should be a small bit for powered items with key off.
Ted

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Yep, there's actually 2 fuse holders with 4 fuses in each, if I recall correctly.

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Putting the reason why you'd see 12v on the neg side of the pulled battery wire, why do you think there is a short?
What is the original symptom?
Battery runs down ?

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Battery is on a tender always and it is dead, The tender can keep up with the drain.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

That was the next step after checking for a closed circuit, when the circuit should be open.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

If you connect a volt meter between the batter and ground it will read whatever the battery voltage is.

If you connect an amp meter between the battery and ground you'll read current flow. There should be only a few hundred milamps.

From reading the other posts, I think you understand the procedure of using either a test light or an ammeter then pull fuses.

You might also have a battery which is, itself, shorted.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

[QUOTE=Hib Halverson;145886]If you connect a volt meter between the batter and ground it will read whatever the battery voltage is.

If you connect an amp meter between the battery and ground you'll read current flow. There should be only a few hundred milamps.

From reading the other posts, I think you understand the procedure of using either a test light or an ammeter then pull fuses.

You might also have a battery which is, itself, shorted.[/QUOTE]

Good point. I had an 84 month battery die today in my Silverado that only had 60 months usage. Had to replace it.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

Ah, Hib... I believe you meant to say putting an ammeter in series between the battery post and that post's cable connector (have to disconnect the cable from the battery post to do the test). measuring current between the battery (positive) and ground creates a near dead short with the meter in the middle. If yer lucky, all it does is blow a fuse in the meter.

Robert-

because there is a path to ground through the radio and the ECM, etc that keeps the presets, clock, and memory alive, pulling the cable off the battery and then reading voltage will result in a voltage reading equal to battery voltage. If you were to disconnect the pos cable from the battery, and measure resistance between the positive connector and the negative terminal of the battery or to ground, you will see a few hundred ohms, but NOT infinity as there is a closed circuit even with the key off. (Somewhere between 240Ω and 1.2k Ω, after it settles, is normal.)

Back to the ammeter: Reading current between the positive terminal of the battery, and the positive cable connector (removed from the battery) you should have no more than 50mA (GM spec) , and typically 25mA or less. (Also note that when you first make the connection, the current will be considerably higher than that. That is normal. But, as the various capacitors in the electronics charge up (through the meter), the current draw will trickle down to its normal 10-50mA range before leveling off - usually after only 2-4 seconds or so. Once the reading settles, you can assess the normal "at rest" current draw, due to the "always on" stuff.)

The ammeter feature requires some special consideration: Move the read lead to the "10A" port on the DVM and select "A" on the meter BEFORE making connection between the battery post and the cable connector. To make the connections and then sweep the meter selector knob through the various ranges and such will more than likely damage the meter.

And! It is a good practice, once done makeing a current reading, to remove the test lead from the "10A" port on the meter and return it to the normal port. Otherwise you might do what I did yesterday:o. I forgot to move the red lead back to the normal setting before setting the meter aside. When I picked it up again to this time make a voltage measurement, I didn't notice the mixup until it was too late - and popped the fuse in the meter!

You may already know all dis chit, but I can testify that even if you've been doing "lectric chit" forever, it is easy to have a brain fart and forget to do something a pop a fuse...ask HIB and me how we know!! :o

P.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

That is what I think it is, the amp draw is .0256 which is 256mA. Guessing there is a dead or shorted cell in the battery. Identical to the 91

Re: Electrical Short.
 

Paul, this is exactly what I wanted to know. What are the live circuits on our cars! I knew the radio has the yellow leed which goes directly to a hot connection. I guess I should have went threw the wiring manual and found the circuits which are always hot. I should have done it the easy way, taking readings off the 91, than take readings off the 93.
That is what happens when you try to rush, chit get messed up.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

Point of clarification: If you see ".0256" that's 25.6ma which is not a big deal. If you did a typo and it truly is 0.256 (256ma) and is steady you do have a heavy draw. Time to leave the meter connected that way and start disconnecting stuff until you find the culprit. Do you have any aftermarket electrical stuff?

Re: Electrical Short.
 

Good catch, Scott.

Robert: Some meters will auto-range to read in mA directly. How-some-ever, if your meter scale is reading Amperes (not mA), then move the decimal 3 places to the right to convert to mA.

Example: 0.0256A (as Scott points out) becomes 25.6mA - which is well under the GM threshold of 50mA where concern for battery drain comes into play (and is pretty much at the top of the statistical bell curve for "key off" or "keep alive" current draw).

If it is higher than 50mA, leave the meter connected and start pulling fuses, one at a time while looking for a sudden drop in current draw to isolate the circuit(s) with the load. Refer to the FSM to futher isolate the various components that share that fuse.

BTW! What does the voltage across the battery do when you connect your battery charger? It sould jump up a few tenths. (Mine is on a Battery Tender. I just disconnected the BT and measured the (surface charge) voltage, and it was 13.36. Then, reconnecting the charger the voltage bumped up to 13.8. The light on the BT is "GREEN" (indicating fully charged).

My point is, to check the BT while connected to the battery to see if it is in fact working. Just a thought.

Hope this helps.

P.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that it's the battery. I say that because something similar happened to me. A relatively new battery (14mo old) would become useless even after sitting a week or two even with a battery tender on it.

After doing some research into "battery sulphation" back in 2002 I determined the battery I bought must have sat on the shelf for a long time. What happens to cause this is beyond the scope of this thread but the battery turned just fine initially after purchase. Over time it seemed to lose it's ability to pull high amps. Eventually even with plenty of charge time it turned the starter with difficulty. It measured a good 13.7v after charging but.... diminished capacity. Read more if you want at:
http://rollsbatteryne.com/docs/A%20S...%20Battery.pdf
You can also use a device to try and recover a sulphated battery. This is an example.
http://batteryminders.com/battery-sulfation.php
Given enough sulphation the internal current leakage of the battery is higher than the float charger...... the battery drains itself.

If it is the battery and you go for a replacement try to find a car parts or Walmart that has just opened. Chances are they have fresh batteries. Alternatively find a place with high turnover in batteries.

I hope I'm right on this. It's certainly going to be easier to replace the battery than to chase down something draining juice.
Good luck.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

Batteries are date coded these days in generally quite visible areas on the battery, it's wise to confirm the date code of the battery because if 36 months down the road you've a warranty issue and no invoice the date code of the battery is generally sufficient for the application of the warranty. Batteries are generally rotated so a "fresher" battery could likely be the last in the rack! A 75 group battery is pretty popular, you might have a choice of 5 - 7 batteries! Grab the "freshest"!!

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The only date codes I've ever seen are cryptic. Or they have scratch off pads.
Interviewing the department manager at Wallmart he said they just rotate unsold ones out. The are "reconditioned" and put back on the shelf. And I think they've since gotten out of selling batteries all to gether. The O'Riley's guy I spoke to said they do the same thing. Then a green sticker with a number indicating the month it was last "cycled".
And a local Bi-Mart (coop) does not put acid in them and they sit in the back until inventory is needed. A battery with no acid and sealed will not have a problem. They do not have date codes. They do punch out the year and month on a strip on the top of the battery. Problem at BiMart is the once with acid sit for long periods.

BTW all even the sealed batteries like Optima will develop problems if they sit too long.

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I heard from my good friend & mechanic that the cheapo Walmart batteries are actually reused lead innards. Not a melt down and recast lead but actual old plates just being reused.

He claims that is why they crap out so soon.

He said any Interstate Battery guy will confirm this. That was his source and the line he sells.

I have many of the Interstate brand in all my vehicles now and I do have to admit they are good indeed.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

I don't know that I'd consider most of the date codes "cryptic" but I would expect to be able to "confirm" the date code from a sales person before a purchase. I also maybe in "error" assumed we might be discussing "first line" batteries with a "nationwide" warranty! I've never had a problem identifying an ACD, Interstate, Exide, or the Sears line. Were I local to a Bi-Mart I might likely consider a purchase there, but for comparisons and date codes I believe we need to confine the conversation to "sealed batteries"!

Your Oreily guy and Walmart guy know that batteries are sold from the "front" and arriving stock is inserted to the "rear" of the rack. Maybe the question wasn't presented "properly". Did you ask for the explanation of a date code or for the code to be pointed out to you? I'm guessing not!

Regarding a comment in a following post regarding the Walmart "cheapo" battery! Walmart has I believe 3 lines of batteries as do all the other "major" resellers. You've the opportunity to purchase "your choice". If your wallet is speaking you might just grab the $55 choice. There's a product just to the right of it that might be $85 that has a warranty equal to or better than most! Carry it back, explain you've a problem, present invoice leave with a new one after a warranty "adjustment"!

Back to the diagnostics guys!!!!

Re: Electrical Short.
 

Your guess would be wrong!
The store had just opened for business that weekend. The manager took me back and showed me how they (all o'rileys) did there batteries. Since I was aware of the sulfation issue and age I asked about how they tell the age of a battery. He said there are NO marks other than the green sticker with a month. hmmm so what year says I.
No answer and he shrugged his shoulder. I remember it well because it was our first meeting and I've dealt with him a lot since.

As I said. Walmart here doesn't carry batteries anymore.
Anyone know for sure if their local Walmart still does?

Exactly. We're off in the weeds. My initial point was to get the newest one you can find. Don't necessarily trust the date codes on them even if the have one. I just called Sears and the guy explained the date code "sticker" on the side just means when it was last serviced. I rest my case.

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Robert, good luck on the battery.....simply exhausting.......

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Yes, as of about 10 days ago anyway. I haven't had the occassion to look again since then.

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Plenty of batteries on the shelf at my local Wally World.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

I found this to be interesting.

Benefits of OPTIMA Batteries

After being fed up by the many faults in old-school batteries, OPTIMA decided to start from scratch to design a better car battery for your vehicle. After several breakthroughs in design and performance, OPTIMA completely redefined the capabilities of the car battery.

OPTIMA stands apart from the competition thanks to their Spiralcell Technology. While old-school batteries are filled with flat sheets of lead, the OPTIMA car battery is filled with tightly coiled rolls. Not only does this ingenious design protect the lead from vibration, but it also keeps the batteries 100% maintenance free. That’s right—you never have to top an OPTIMA battery off with distilled water. Plus, off-road enthusiasts can explore the unknown without worrying about a leaky battery—the OPTIMA battery can flip a full 180° without leaking.

Lasting about twice as long as the competition, OPTIMA batteries have the juice to power your monster audio system or jump start a racer at the track. And, they can handle the most demanding situations.


About Interstate Batteries

Interstate Batteries has earned a solid reputation for top-quality products, consistently reliable service and business innovations. What started as a small company has now grown to be one of the most respected names in the car battery business. For more than 60 years, Interstate has been designing high-quality replacement car batteries. The company is based on high principles to offer the best-quality products, provide impeccable service and always treat the customer with respect. When you choose an Interstate battery, you can be certain you’re choosing a battery that was made with quality and design in mind.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

Do none of you know me, It will be a New not re-manufactured GM exact replacement.
At this point it is just money. Pretty soon both cars will be completly NOS parts. I have pretty much every receipt for everything that was ever done to either vehicle, It appears that the battery lasted for 19 years. Amazing what a battery tender will do.
:cheers:

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hahahahaha

You still might consider an Optima, Robert. I have one of the yellow ones, relocated behind the passenger seat, in the Turq car. Tough battery. :cheers:

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I am going to get the ruby registered next year as a semi-survivor. That is if I can keep it running.

Updated my Signature what do you think.

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Hahahaha

I feel your pain. I've been fighting the dreaded "throttle plate sticking" issue for about two weeks. Finally have it band-aided for now with lithium grease. I'll R&R over the Winter unless it annoys me before then.

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Its not bad keeping them running it took me less than two hours to change out the U-Joints and Half shaft, prep and vaccum seal the additional shaft. It just seems like they always break at the most un-opportune times with every idiot on Fleabay thinking he has struck gold.

Re: Electrical Short.
 

"Amazing what a battery tender will do."

Well that was an easy fix!

That is how I fixed my Grand Marquis that drains the battery in the winter when is sits for a week. Never could find the drain source so the fix was the waterproof battery tender mounted under the hood and plug it in when it is wintertime. Starts great every time now.

I have the marine type one in my boat and use it all the time for the insurance that when it is time to go boating I know the blower motor will crank over in the Scarab for sure. Nuthin worse than dead batteries when it is time to use a toy.

It seems when you have lots of toys you are always screwing around with battery issues. Second comes waxing 'em all.

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I've grown to accept that the car toys will always be prone to tinkering. Either preventive or as needed. It's nice to have the good ole' Cobalt as my reliable daily driver. LOL The toys can set until I feel like tinkering.

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Still need a new battery, I am saying that my 98 has the same original battery , I have not had it plugged in on the tender for over two months and there is no problems.

I currently Have two tenders 1 four bank for the four Corvettes and 1 two back that sits on a shelf.
http://batterytender.com/automotive/...emisphere.html

Re: Electrical Short.
 

Wow, amazing, 19yrs. Let me know if you find a stock or near stock Delco battery.
I'm not totally stock but all my mods are reversible.