Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Hello everyone,

I'm from Germany and unfortunately I'm not yet an owner of a Corvette.
For quite some time now I'm on the lookout for 1996 C4 LT4, but those are quite rare around here.But recently I stumbled upon a ZR-1 in Austria, not very far away from me, which aroused my interest and a few days ago I could take a closer look at the car.
Since the car isn't in the best condition and I have no previous experience with C4s or ZR-1s I hope, that some of you could give me your opinion on the car and what you think it would be worth.


It is a 1990 ZR-1, that was first registered in Switzerland. In the ad the milage was declared with 110000 km but, but actually its over 110000 miles, not kilometers, so thats over 60% more than advertised.

The seller is a small used car dealer in Austria. He said, that the car had probably two previous owners in Switzerland but could provide almost no papers, that document the history of the car. He has also no maintenance records.

In the mid 90s the body of the car was modified by a swiss company called Nyffenegger. It got a bodykit with a front and rear bumper, side skirts, rear spoiler, the hood got fake louvers over the wheel housings and the crease along the middle of the hood was filled.
The car was also repainted with a Honda color called "Black Currant Pearl". The orignial color was black.
https://i.postimg.cc/R6wttf9D/IMG-1017.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/gLD6SWxy/IMG-1018.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/dDKHxj7D/IMG-1019.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/wRHmQvjT/IMG-1020.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/3yspW9MG/IMG-1025.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/c6HZrWmQ/IMG-20221003-143951.jpg
The car has a Corsa exhaust, Bilstein shockabsorbers and Sparco seats.
There is no paperwork for those modifications or the changes to the body, which could be a problem for the registration in Germany.

...

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

When I took a closer look at the car I noticed the following things:

Exterior
- the front bumper is broken in multiple areas and has more smaller cracks
https://i.postimg.cc/nsGZQcg1/IMG-20221003-143202.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/tnYHfdTr/IMG-20221003-143252.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/HcWm01C1/IMG-20221003-143257.jpg
- on the underside of the front bumper and a plate was glued together and those two parts are separating
https://i.postimg.cc/XG2bQ1VG/IMG-20221003-143330.jpg
- the rear bumper is broken where the license plate lights are located and it has more cracks in the center below the license plate (I have no good pictures of this)
- the rear bumper appears to have quite large holes where the belt line molding is attached
https://i.postimg.cc/rRWrS4kH/IMG-20221003-141943.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/WqMdDPmL/IMG-20221003-141953.jpg
- the hood has very deep cracks around the headlights. The cracks are several millimeters deep and the cracked layer is delaminating from the layer below. I could not tell, if the cracked material is paint and filler or if the material of the hood is also cracked.
https://i.postimg.cc/pprTb84M/IMG-20221003-143226.jpg
- there are more cracks in the hood around the fake louvers
https://i.postimg.cc/CdQ082P9/IMG-20221003-143231.jpg
- the right headlight housing has a dent or broken off part
https://i.postimg.cc/4Hn8ZBp9/IMG-20221003-142056.jpg
- the left front wheel house appears to be broken in the forward area
https://i.postimg.cc/mhMzp7vX/IMG-20221003-142020.jpg
- the weather stripping around the doors seemed quite worn, but acording to the seller they are still watertight. I didn't notice any traces of water on the inside or moldy smell
- the windshield has some delamination around the edge, but not much
- the transparent roof appears to be in good condition
- the grating below the windshield on the passenger side is slightly damaged
- the belt line on the front bumper is in the style of the facelift and doesn't match the rest of the 1990 belt line

...

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Engine bay
- brown puddles under I think the fuel injector housings or maybe the air intake plenum. I don't have pictures of this
- the right forward area of the engine block seemed to be quite a bit dirtier than the rest of the block
- some of the pipes around air intake have broken screw tabs
https://i.postimg.cc/34kpx6bY/IMG-20221003-142050.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/PpDxckRp/IMG-20221003-142711.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/fVWVbpJp/IMG-20221003-142715.jpg
- the air filter housing is cracked on the right side and it is attached to the duct with a piece of sheet metal and screws on both sides
https://i.postimg.cc/CRvzn781/IMG-20221003-142251.jpg
- something was rubbing against the upper left control arm
https://i.postimg.cc/8st50wyb/IMG-20221003-142843.jpg

Interior
- the steering column doesn't wiggle
- the seats are not movable and mounted to far back for me. I couldn't tell, if the mounting brackets are adjustable in any way
- on the steering column, behind the turn signal lever, there seems to be missing a cover and cables are dangling out
https://i.postimg.cc/3y5JvqR3/IMG-20221003-143533.jpg
- the ignition switch comes out when you try to pull the key out
- the carpet under the pedals is ripped or rubbed through
https://i.postimg.cc/PPvjQM0J/IMG-20221003-143514.jpg
- the original radio doesn't exist and was replaced with a Blaupunkt radio, that is too small for the radio bay
- the ride mode selector has no function because of the Bilstein shocks
- the 3-point safety belts and seats don't match. Because of the high sidewalls of the seats the waist belt fits ver loose and it is difficult to fasten the belt buckle
https://i.postimg.cc/672n9gPw/IMG-1021.jpg

Wheels/Tires
- the wheels have scratches all around the outer edges
- the tires were produced in 2014 and have cracks in the treads
https://i.postimg.cc/2qV3QWdx/IMG-20221003-142405.jpg
- the tires have flat spots, probably from being parked to long. This results in vibrations and noise during driving

Other
- I didn't notice any strange noises from the engine, appart from a squaking belt, but I might have missed something
- the ABS is working
- some unplugged cables and cut off wires dangling around freely in the front and back of the car. This has probably to do with modifications made to the lighting according to austrian regulations. For example the side markers apparently are not legal in Austria and have to be disconnected.
- the spare tire carrier, spare tire and tire bag is missing
- the area where the spare tire carrier bolt should connect to the chassis looks a bit mangled to me
https://i.postimg.cc/4m78S2fC/IMG-20221003-141648.jpg
- the wrench for the roof and the lug wrench are present
- the tire jack is missing
- the owners manual is missing
- INFL REST warning light is on

I couldn't take a good look at the underside of the car and don't know, if there is any visible leakage or if the frame rails are straight.
I also forgot to check, if the pop up headlights are working and probably forgot to check many other things.

I'm looking for a car for driving and not a trailer queen and I would also like do some of the wrenching myself.
Should I buy the car I would probably like to replace the damaged rear and front bumper with unmodified parts, remove the rear spoiler and side skirts, repair or replace the hood, depending on how severe the damage is, and all this would probably result in repainting the whole car or parts of it.
I think the car needs a new set of tires and the seat and belt problem would need fixing.

Most ZR-1s around here are red 1990s cars and are advertised with prices in the range from 35000? to around 40000?, but at least in the pictures those cars appear to be in much better and unmodified condition and the milage is generally lower. But I don't know, for how much they really sell and most of those cars are listed for many month.
One german classic car magazine (Auto Zeitung Classic Cars 10/2022) lists the C4 ZR-1 with 21800? for good cars and 9200? for restorable cars. In another magazine (Oldtimer Markt Preise 2022) the prices are 12800? for good cars and 5600? for restorable ones.
(Our classic car grades only go from 1 to 5 instead of the six grades, that I found for example at hagerty.com, but I think, that our "Zustandsnote 3" and should be comparable to the condition "Good" and "Zustandsnote 4" would be "Restorable")

The asking price for this car is 25000?, which seems to high for the impression I got from the car.

What is your opinion on the car? And what do you think a reasonable $ price would be on the US market, or in ? if you are familiar with european market?

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Geez, sure does have a lot of issues. Don't think I'd pay $25k regardless of where it's being sold.

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

I would probably hold out for a better example. This one will take much money and time to sort out.

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

My impression is it will take 30k to make it right. If it had a Callaway aerobody kit maybe. It already needs major body repair all over and a repaint.

Then it has over 110k miles, significant interior work, new tires, I'm sure the shocks are the originals. All all of the above for 25k? Sorry no way.

The max that car is worth is 15k and even so I would not touch it. Too many better cars out there for that money.

GC

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

I know this car, I mean not physically but from the ads. I'm near Munich.

Definitely keep your hands off this example. It's a heavily abused and molested car that obviously went through hands that gave a s**t on what it is.

Considering the visible grade of maintenance, care and love that has been given to that car ... says it all.

For a great ZR-1 (serious and honest grade 2 in "our" logic) you have to consider around $ 30-35k US plus shipping, customs, taxes, modifications, T?V, registration, etc. Considering our worthless currency you know where this goes...

Good driver condition starts lower, around 20k.

Ignore what our magazines say. It's totally unrealistic to buy a great and well maintained grade 2 car over here significantly below 40k EUR. Mine was examined in an Ausfuehrliches Oltimer Wertgutachten to be around 47k. It's a one owner, 20kmls grade 1- car. This was 1 1/2 years ago.

However, that piece of junk is not worth a dime as everything you will need to restore it to a nice condition has to be bought from the US and paid with worthless Euros...

Times for buying US cars over here are getting harder and harder.
My suggestion: there will be s**tloads of bankruptcies in the next months. For sure there will be some nice Corvettes, too, that have to be sold quickly to recover cash an pay debts.
Sit and wait, there will be good chances.

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Much agreed on that.

Jay

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

There are many far better cars available, if not over there already, easily shipped from the US, to be even considering that car.
As said by another, let the condition of the car speak to how it has been maintained.
May it rest in peace.
Best of luck in your search!
:cheers:
Marty

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Forget this project!! Like all the answers you have here the car, inevitably, has not easy solution... First, what you can see inside, outside and in the engine bay. And second, what you can't see inside engine, ZF Transmission, differential, electronics, wires...

Basically you must remake ALL the car from frame to final exterior paint!! Don't worth it.

Really, I think you can find better units in Europe or USA market with less money that you would spend on this project.

Come on!! I'm sure your future ZR-1 is waiting you where you don't think of.

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Having imported two ZR-1's from the USA myself, our old white on red 91 and our current Admiral Blue on black 94 I will say buy the best car you can afford or find.

We had the 94 sendt to Marc Haibeck for a full tune up and service before it was shipped over to Norway, and he also fixed all the small stuff he found.

Getting a fully sorted, and in our case modded car, ready to drive would be my best advice. Pay the extra $$$ when buying and you will probably save money in the long run, not to mention the pleasure of having a problem free ownership for much longer.

We are upgrading it a little each season with new parts like suspension and other tech stuff, not because we have to but because we want it to be closer to "as new condition" as we can. Other than that it's just the annual oil and filter changes.

Yes we could surely have bought a cheaper example, but it wouldn't have been as good or reliable as the one we have.

There are several good cars offered for sale all the time by members in the ZR-1 community and I would highly recommend buying one of them, just like we did ourself.

Best of luck in your search. Your dream car is out there.Attachment 18717

Sent from my SM-G955F using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Thank you all very much for your replies.
I will follow your advice and wait for a car in better condition.

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Forget it!
It wouldn't even make a good parts car...

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Yes...this Z is good for parting out but not for 25000 (Euro?). The Z has a registration in Switzerland...a non EU country. You have to pay fees for the import to Germany. You will have to spend another 25000 for repair etc. Just offer 8K to the seller and buy it for 10 or 11...so you`ll have a project for the next 2 years.

I can help you with the engine and all the mechanical stuff.

Greetz Thomas

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

It would but that depends on the price.

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Roy's advice is spot on. So many times I have seen folks get a "great deal" then spend the rest of their ownership trying to get it right at considerable expense. If you can find a ZR-1 that has been cared for by a ZR-1 Registry member, serviced by Marc Haibeck or better, both, you will not regret it. Plus there seems to be a fairly large European ZR-1 ownership group who might be able to help. Suggest talking to folks who have bought in the US and shipped to Europe about costs and simply factor that into the overall cost of the car. Hopefully you'll find something that fits your budget. --Bob

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Importing has become very expensive recently... You need big pockets full of Euros to spend if you intend to get a car from the US. Sadly...

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Has the taxes gone up down there or are you referring to the dollar vs euro?

For us here in Norway it's the dollar that kills it these days since our currency is very weak now. Tax wise it's the same.

Sent from my SM-G955F using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Not sure about that.
Many still buy here ones that are 30 years or older and ship into the EU.
Much better to buy a high quality car to begin with and ship it, than buy a problem child that costs a fortune to fix and still remains a shaggy dog after all of the money, time and work.
Both end up costing about the same once done, but shaggy remains.
Your choice.
:cheers:
Marty

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

The dollar Euro quote became a mess...thanx f**king Putin a**hole.

BTW if you want to onw a very special corvette such as a C4 ZR-1 you have to pay very special prices...if not: buy a standard corvette...very simple.

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Marty, I think there are still people out there who are willing to go down that road, BUT:

- EUR vs USD has lost about 23% since I bought my ZR-1 in 2020

- Taxes have thereby implicately risen as customs and taxes are calculated based on USD values, current exchange rares and, worst of all, CIF. Both, insurance and freight are often paid in Dollars, too (even transportation cost resulting from relocations on US ground are considered...). So: more taxes!

- Europe is in deep ****. Germans, where probably the most potential buyers are located, is in the deepest ****. Skyrocketing inflation and a powerless central bank meets an economy that is heavily dependent from cheap (russian) gas. We're expecting stagflation (or already have it...), a massive wave of bankruptcies and slowly people start to understand, what that means for them: they will be in deep deep ****, too. People in deep **** don't buy fun cars but food.

- Gas prices have soared. As they did in the US. But you are now where we were before. In other words: here it's EXPENSIVE. I'm rather a relaxed driver but 1km (0.65mls) ZR-1 fun costs about 30 cents, c31 US. It's not fun and it's increasingly less affordable to run big engines here.

So... To my understanding It's just a matter of time that this market will crumble as German/European buyers will more and more retract.
My ZR would be about 12-15k euros more today to get it here. Only parts of it being based on the raise in prices.
Would I do it again at today's conditions? Certainly no...

Great news for you Merc and Beamer fans out there! There are great chances ahead for bargains! [emoji3]

Re: Hello from Germany and a request for your opinions on a ZR-1
 

Looking forward to getting a new daily! Been seeing some gems pop up over here that have been brought over from Europe... Giggity


As others have said... steer clear of basket case C4 ZR1s over there. It wont end well.

A Greek gentleman (actually German living in Greece) took on rebuilding/resto/modding a DeLorean in Athens a while back. I followed along and would share in his frustration as shipping delays and parts issues kept holding him back. Not sure if he ever finished the project.

Keep an eye out for the RIGHT car. You are lucky in that you can basically find a car in the region and have an AMAZING drive back home should it be a couple countries away.

We're always here to help you evaluate any potential purchases :cheers: