Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Yah if you've served that long under those conditions you must know at least as much as JVD and well you have as much right to be in the minority as he has.

Oh and as far as I can see on the official government site the oath is not as above. It's this:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Wow JVD was in active duty. Thanks for you service JVD.
Domestic enemy definition must be what ever JVD thinks it is.
I mean he couldn't be wrong, right?
It might be as simple as an habitual offender of the constitution
but then just as when the income tax law was passed by congress (just like the health care law) it has to go to the supreme court to find out. I kinda which it had been unconstitutional but ooops it's not. (says the court)

Personally I don't want to be the "us" who decides what an "enemy of the state" is. I'm not qualified. I didn't serve. And well. I'm not in the supreme court.

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Right on the nail. Politicians (that is the correct spelling) are to be suspect just by the job description. They should all be attacked with jealous rage from all the nations peanut galleries. I mean that's what they signed up for isn't it?

And right on the nail too JVD on the references to constitution but I defer it's interpretation to (again) the supreme court. And I am so glad the founders saw the error to and did not include a requirement of service in the armed forces else we'd be permanently lead by those that have advance in those ranks rather than the best (most popular) citizen.
But if I were to add a requirement it'd be waiving a flag at one time or another. I mean that has to be a necessary thing right?:USFlag:

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

You guys do realize that without the draft (as it was in my day) the percentage of Americans that do choose to put "their all" on the line for our great country is dwindling. The "Citizen Soldier" is going to be a ghost of the past, in favor of the career soldiers. Personally, I am in favor of a draft. To much has fallen on the shoulders of too few the last 10 years!

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

I've often thought Israel has a great idea.
All must serve in one capacity of another.
I served 4yrs working to make military and shuttle radios at Rockwell .
Not exactly front line but then most grunts that serve
aren't Navy Seal types either.
I had one work for me for 6 yrs. Certainly a different kind
of worker for sure.

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Funny you should bring up Israel. My neighbor is a naturalized American citizen, an Israeli. He was a Major in the Army and served on the Egyptian front during the 72 war.

I have had many talks with him regarding Israel and their Army. First, Israel has a socialistic economic system. They have state funded medical. Their taxes are very high. They have manditory military service for EVERYONE, including women. They do have exceptions. When you get out of the service, they will pay for your education at the University. In addition, while in the service you pay no taxes.

Israel is a land of about 7 million and they are surrounded by many times that number of arabs, their sworn enemy. They are determined to protect their nation by any means necessay. They welcome American aide, however, they will take whatever military steps are necessary to defend their country regardless of the USA's wishes.

Scott, you are right, it takes a team. God Bless them all!!

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Interesting enough, EVERY POTUS since (& including) Truman has served in the military EXCEPT for Clinton and Obama. Some were THE most popular President's in this country's recent history, although many of their legacies weren’t.

Unlike ScotFab, I don't believe “popularity” is the most credible of qualifications. In fact, if that premise is used exclusively, I see it as eminent danger. The media plays too big a role in gaining popularity and keeping it. After all, Hitler was also “popular” once.

The reality of achievement, experience, sound judgment and discipline are major character traits which are focused upon especially, but not solely, with military experience.

Simply put, becoming the POTUS is NOT the time to learn about how our military, the most powerful in the world, works. And if it comes to that (like today) you had better listen to your generals, consult the Congress (as required but ignored today), and above all, support your troops (and your country) with everything you can, 100% of the time.

Always interesting when the defense mechanisms come out. The good ‘ol Blame Game. Happens every time when someone can’t perform. In golf it’s “the greens weren’t good enough”, in ball it’s “all the ref’s fault”. And how many times have I heard “it was like that when it came in” here in my own shop. I don’t give a Sh!t. It’s here, it has a problem, SO WE FIX IT! Just remember though, if you can’t fix it, or refuse to, then we allow someone ELSE fix it.
Amen Eric and we can’t thank you enough for your service. Boothby raises his experience in the VN war. Although a valiant effort on our troops behalf, that should always stand as THE largest single mistake in our nation’s history. Like Afghanistan, it too was NOT a declared war but our troops were sent regardless of our Constitution (many against their will), because we didn’t use the word “war”. It was merely an “armed conflict”. What happened after that was nothing less than a capital offense. Our very own government misled its citizens at home, while refusing to let our troops win. When it was all over, what did we accomplish again? I forget.

Sound familiar yet?

The Russians tried but failed but we’re there (Afghanistan) regardless. For what? To try and change a society that is so primitive you couldn’t even begin to make sense out of it. Where women are maimed or killed by men with no penalty? Where children have their hands cut off if they accept a candy or even attend school? Where the main export of the land is heroin? But more importantly, it’s where thousands of our troops have been killed and the remainder deeply insulted when our Commander in Chief repeatedly apologizes to THEM (the Afghans) after putting us there in the first place! And after, when this is all said and done, what will we have accomplished? That remains to be seen...

Eric knows firsthand the effects of that, but he can’t talk about it. So I have…

Sometimes the facts are hard to deal with and may be very frustrating. It is hard to understand how ANY Commander in Chief, with no military experience, despite his general’s recommendations, could suggest we drastically cut our armed forces, in order cut costs….so we can hand out more entitlement checks and grow our government even larger.

Been to an airport lately? Maybe had one of them 60,000 TSA agents stick their finger up your….uh….waistband? Ever wonder what the TSA costs to operate? 8.1 BILLION (2012)

Wanna know how many terrorists they caught so far? Zero.

Wanna know how many children have been in tears while being illegally searched by a TSA complete stranger? About half the number of their parents who are too ignorant to know better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Boothby (Post 138353) I was just being a Wise A..! Ha Ha!

Don’t worry John. My feelings don’t get hurt very often. Either one of them….;)

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]
Don’t worry John. My feelings don’t get hurt very often. Either one of them….;)[/QUOTE]

Thank God!! ;)

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

There have been 16 presidents (answers.com) who have not served in the military. It would make as much sense to require that all supreme court justices serve as a prison guard. A president leads not just the military (commander and chief) but the citizens too. He has generals to advise him as did Bush when he got us in Afghanistan in 2001. (some may have forgot that in the blame Obama for everything game)


Unlike JVD I don't think our system of majority vote is a "qualification". It's a measure. But I'd have to agree there is a danger. The danger is made even more possible now that corporate financing of candidates is officially legal (recent supreme court ruling). Under that ruling a corporation has the rights of individuals to donate cash and there is no limit. Beware of the ads you're about to be barraged with.


When a rogue solder kills civilians I don't think blanket support for all troops is proper. A selective support is needed. Cutting back on military spending is a good idea. We were warned by Eisenhower about the military complex and I worked in that industry and saw the waste and corruption. Blind support for ANY entity is wrong in my opinion.



It sure is JVD. It sure is.

Exactly right. That's why I say blind support for any entity is an error. The were and are in conflicts we should never have been involved with. period
Yah we make mistakes. The trick is to not spend more lives and $ after bad.


I don't see the connection. If I stop wasting money by not putting another handgun in my safe I don't think I'm doing it to buy more girl scout cookies.
What's wrong is wrong. Having an open ended military budget is wrong. The US has a history of cutting back military then refocusing the $ where it's needed most. I worked for military company when the B1 bomber was virtually dropped for a time. It was the right decision. The $ was focused on better technology.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...e-secret.shtml

Personally I feel safer knowing there is a TSA there.
I don't piss, whine and moan when I am hand searched. It's been going on internationally way before TSA. (low tech countries have been using this for a long time. My first experience was in 1998)

Personally I don't think Obama is the most charismatic or dynamic leader but he's no cheer leader or a bumbling fool. He's got us out of one hell hole and is working to get us out of the other. He authorized the seal team to use lethal force.
Not sure yet who I'll vote for but I sure as hell am not going to blame Obama for global warming or for the greedy bankers that tipped the economy into recession. I'm not even going to blame him for not being faster at correcting the mistakes of his predecessor.

I'm still proud to be an American but not always proud of what we do as a nation.
:proud:

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

I support our troops 110%!

The problem is when we use the military WITHOUT a full and complete stratigey as to what the goal is and withdrawing from the conflict. We are all responsible for the actions of the "rogue" soldier. He should have never been deployed the last time. We have sent these guys and girls into a nasty conflict with ROE (rules of engagement) that are very similar to Vietnam, and we have sent them back without sufficient rest. I thought we learned that lesson in Vietnam.

I have a good friend that just returned from Afghanastan. He has 36 years in the Army and reserves and is a Sargent Major. He served 3 tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. He is now about used up. I had lunch with him the other day and he said that this war is a big waste! It should have been wrapped up years ago.

When we use our military it should be with the FULL weight of all branches. The only ROE should be "Kill the Enemy" and get the f out! Schwartskoff did it right in the first gulf war.

I am a WWII kind of guy in my thinking. "Git er done"!

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

I totally agree. Objective and goals should be concrete. Going over there to protect our freedom here seems a bit vague.
Go over if we need to. Whack their pee-pee and get out.

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Well at least you put all of your gracious oopinions into one post, not 4 or 5 in a row.

As I said, "SINCE and including TRUMAN" there have been only two. That means since WWII.

Sounds like something you'd make sense of...

Good for you buddy. If the governemnt is involved, I feel vulnerable not more secure. If you think a 6 year old little girl is a threat to airline security, you are entitled to your opinion. I don't happen to think so.

Did you like it or something? ;)
Well, let's just say when the Pakistani tried to search my youngest at DFW, I didn't piss and moan, I told the truth. I told them if anyone touched my daughter, I would hurt them enough they would remember me for the rest of their lives. There were 6 security people there in a minute or so. In the back room they emptied my daughter's back pack which had already gone through security. Her homework and her Bible was all that was there. It's a parent's thing Scott, maybe something you don't understand?

It is easy to turn this into the typical piss'n match and blame everyone before for our situation. I don't turn to politics.
If I thought Obamba was the greatest of all greats, the simple fact that he can't get a single vote out of 565 members of Congress, for his own budget, tells me something. We need a new mechanic.....

Will somebody pass me a metric crescent wrench please? Nuff said....but you keep going ScotFab....

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

I love me some JVD. Especially those Bowtie burgers. Looking forward to seeing you at the Gathering this year.
:flag2:

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Yah, I took your lead on that. Usually I like to keep each topic separate so as to not obfuscate the central theme. But then I realized your central theme was generally the same. Nothing Obama does or has done meets with your approval. Fare enough. Just know that not all of us out here agree with that.

Correct you are. I did not explain my statement well enough. My point is that two presidents since WWII was not a complete story. The complete story is that 16 have served as commander and chief without military service. And I think you'll see some familiar names that were major contributors to our nation.

1. John Adams
2. Thomas Jefferson
3. James Madison
4. John Quincy Adams
5. Martin Van Buren
6. James Polk
7. Millard Fillmore
8. Grover Cleveland
9. William Howard Taft
10. Woodrow Wilson
11. Warren G. Harding
12. Calvin Coolidge
13. Herbert Hoover
14. Franklin D. Roosevelt
15. William Jefferson Clinton
16. Barack Obama

You are entitled to that opinion as I am mine. As someone who has traveled domestically and internationally quite a bit I feel safe with them there. Searches before 9/11 were comforting. After 9/11 the are even more so.

You certainly had the right to say that and you thereby received the proper attention. When I traveled with my toddlers/preteens I encouraged them to follow the rules and I provided an example for them by my behavior. The example I provided did not require additional security nor a private screening. I did however incur the wrath of one TSA rep upon returning from China by saying something argumentative. I sure wish I hadn't said it. They have a job to do and as even celebrities find our from time to time, you don't piss with them.

That I believe in in error. I see a 414 member vote against but only after the "Boner" pushed the measure to the floor prematurely. It was a political ploy. As convenient as it is not to mention that it has nothing to do with the overall record of Obama. Just headlines for the press and an exaggeration to support the anti Obama crusade on this forum.
Is Obama the greatest of all greats as JVD states? Not by me he isn't.
But once again, he is not as bad as some of the rhetoric I've seen from the closet haters would have us believe.


Nah I'm done. You can have the last "embellishment".
Well unless a new assertion is made that is too far off in the weeds.
I can't even imagine what you'll go through if there is no change in the presidency this year. Man would that sting or what?:dancing

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Sorry Mike. This year we're having "Bamba burgers" (pending Supreme Court approval of course). They were a really "popular" with the GSA gang down in Vegas. They are a special blend of pork ingredients including Guantanamo Bay leaves, North Korean middle finger, Iranian laughing gas, and a special Afghany goat sauce. All of that served "open pockets" on a bed of Chinese noodles, and boasted over a Solyndra powered grill.

All will be served with Bush's Bake Beans and Boston Tea.

They are a deal for only $988 each if you are in the top 1%, or, if you are unemployed for over 3 years, and have given your "fair share", we welcome food stamps.

We're currently seeking non-working, stay at home Mom's to be servers....

:flag:
(And if you don't like the food, we can always blame it on the "beans"....)

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Do I have to show my ID to prove who I am? Are you going to have any TSA people working the door? Make sure you have red and blue and green (camouflaged) table clothes so we'll know which group to sit with. Thanks again for hosting it. Enjoyed the side of humor.:dancing

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

I agree with to much has fallen on the current Soldier, and i have continued to see people enlist into the Army at least. I had a 42 year old sign up just so he could do his part for his country. I dont see any issues with people signing up, shoot, now HE is trying to down size the military, so i dont think we need a draft.

I do think people should have to serve for at least a few years, South Korea makes there kids do it as well. I understand that it would be a night mare for the U.S. to start this and that it will never happen but maybe then some people would appreciate this country more.

I was in the Army when they brought people back for Desert Storm, it was ugly, they were out of shape, disgruntle, and most of them turned into a huge LEADERSHIP challenge.

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Not sure what you mean by, "not exactly front line but then most grunts that serve aren't Navy Seals types either"....?

"I had one work for me for 6 yrs. Certainly a different kind of worker for sure"?

If your saying the only worthy combat Soldier are Navy Seals then we have an issue. If your not then we wont have an issue. There are no more FRONT LINES over there, as a Infantry Soldier, I would like to think that we are the ones fighting the fight, but now days anyone over there will get some action or be near some action. Now, the Infantry Solider or Soldiers attached to Infantry units will get the brunt of the action, we live in the hornets nest, we take it from the bad guys, and we dish it out almost everyday. We dont pick and choose our battles like some units get to, nor do we get to do 3-6 month rotations like most units do.

I appreciate everyone who goes over there and when the dust settles, i dont care what branch your in, I will try to protect you to the fullest.

Just dont say because of what you read, or hear about that Seals are the top dog or do most of the action, again, not sure what you really meant by those sentences but i felt like it was a negative jab at grunts.

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

The draft did bring in undesirables. Those can be weeded out. I just think that military service builds character and instills discipline that appears to be lacking in younger people these days. My cousin's grandson was just discharged from the USMC after a tour in Afghanastan. Before he inlisted he was a handful and had no idea what he wanted to do. Now he is focused on a career in psychology and law inforcement. Another kid brought back from the dark side!!:saluting:

By the way, you do want a trooper that is a LITTLE pissed off!! We were a pretty eclectic group!!

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

I had the honor of being a Drill Sergeant for 3 years, i saw alot of changes in those 3 years for sure. I had dads even crying saying that could not beleive the change in their son, it was pretty cool seeing the kids come on day 1 and the change in them on the last day.

It i s super hard now days to kick the crappy kids out of the Army, with some good old school changes coming back maybe it will help a little but it is such a drain on the NCO's now days to get someone out. You end up spending all your time escorting dirt bags around and spending what little off time you have off with them.

I totoally understand what your saying about the draft etc..and there will always be a leadership challenge in anything you do.

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

I had 3 DI's in 1965. One was a WWll and Korea vet, one was a Korean vet and the boxing champion of the pacific theater during the Korean conflict. The third was a Philipino who had already been wounded in Vietnam. I respected the hell out of all three!
They were real hardasses, but, everything they said or did was designed to keep you alive in combat!

I imagine today you could not get away with everything they did back then. Might hurt someone's feelings! Like combat wouldn't!

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

I was going to say i bet the boxing guy had lots of practice with you all...LOL

It was pretty lame what we could and could not do to them, of course some people took it to far and thats part of the reason basic training is the way it is now.

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

I was referring to "me" as being like a regular grunt in what I was doing.
There are several elite branches of each service I could have compared to. I was just picking oneo. I picked the one I was most familiar with due to the former seal that worked for me.
He was unpretentious, intense and a great problem solver. He impressed the hell out of me.
I am sure that all the services have better training and see more action than Seals. But I do know he saw enough and I know Seal Team 6 saw some recently. It could have been given to a different branch will the same results.

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

Actually, we had very few problems. Most guys didn't want to be there, but they sucked it up.

I was RA (Regular Army) with a 4 year enlistment due to the length of schooling I had to have for the MOS and my security clearance, and I was in the minority. Draftees were US. Don't ask me what that stood for, but they had a 2 year enlistment.

Re: Close to an end? Obama an illegal.
 

January Statistics On Airport Screening From The Department Of Homeland Security:
Terrorists Discovered
0
Transvestites
133
Hernias
1,485
Hemorrhoid Cases
3,172
Enlarged Prostates
8,249
Breast Implants
59,350
Natural Blondes
3


Latest Intel from TSA.....remember, 8.1 BILLION 2012 (estimated!)