Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

Paul,
Your run of 143 mph is pretty respectable within the range the 1990's Z's ran, compatible with what Marc ran in his three runs. The aerobody weight on that car while great looking would be a negative to me from looking at the results. Almost makes me want to pull the a/c since I don't use it anyway to get rid of the weight if I were really serious about racing which for me would be road racing. Good job ZR-1's!

Hard for me to make too much out of this data as you can’t tell from it who's modded what or what the rear end ratios were for any of these cars, na or forced induction. I have watched your run from the Silverado's window video he posted and he jumped the 200' cones. If you had done the same I suspect you might have hit something like 145 mph. You pulled away nicely once wound up.....next time, less run out! The Silverado is approximately like my TBSS with the lightly tuned LS2 in it with its 4:10 rear end and would lose to the Z every time even though it hauls pretty well.

My overall impression is not something I expected to see just because of lack of exposure probably, however. Surprisingly, where I’ve always more or less mentally dismissed the boosted approach because I don’t like the sound of the whine or the whistles, it looks too hard to ignore based on what’s possible among the choices. Ford has clearly made that choice in their engines as well as many others. If I were going to get serious racing right now with what I’ve seen I think I’ve have to give serious consideration not to a 2013 ZR1 but to a V6 twin turbo of some type and light-weighting whatever car it was in then take it on a road course and see just how fast it would exceed my reflexes.

Among what appears to be more recent stock vettes na or otherwise, the lightly to heavily tuned Z's of our era are very competitive it looks to me. Once you do the same amount of modding on a zo6 or a zr1 of the modern era though you get into the 600 plus horsepower range and up and associated torque and then speeds get better than ours especially if it's a 5 or 6 litre or better boosted dohc engine though it appears possible on 4 liters as well.

I wonder if the day of non boosted engines to attain really high speeds as the norm is really beginning to be kind of old fashioned a bit on other than massive engine drag cars? Fun, yes. God knows I absolutely love my 1991 ZR-1. But, if you want to go really fast, it begins to look like you (in my case, grudgingly) need to think of increased atmospheric pressure, lower compression and cramming the air/fuel in there and stepping up the cams and exhaust.

I look at some of the Ford modern dohc v6's and their company’s commitment to turbos and would bet that some of those with twin turbos might absolutely produce some screamers in cars weighing 3200 pounds or less. Hard for me to think of Lamborghini's as drag cars but they were flying at the 1/2, at least some of them.

I love my car and engine beyond belief and know it's quite competitive against other normal stock based cars. However, the impression I'm left with from the Chicago 1/2's is that to be really fast, you pretty much have to shift to boosted in some way as you can't as a practical matter keep dropping bigger and bigger cubes in to counter higher boost. It might not even be the most efficient way to do it even if you can. Keeping a boosted engine running is something to be considered as well from a maintenance point of view. Then you get into the supercars with hybrid power not so much for fuel but because they in addition to the gas engine drop a 160 to 200 hp electric motor attached to the transaxle to add even more hp to it by running both gas and electric. Torque, torque, torque.

I am curious to see how Sebastian Loeb and Rhys Millen's two boosted less than 4.0 liters V6's run on the 30th at the Pike's Peak Intl. Hill climb. Both the Peugot small sedan modified race car Loeb is running and the Hyundai Genesis Rhys is admit to just under 900 hp but probably are really closer to 1,000. Zero to 62 mph in 1.8 seconds, 0-124 mph in 7 seconds.

Whether I like it or not these technologies plus paddle shifters which means you brake left foot, accelerate right and forget the clutches for micro second shifts and no diminution of focus make that a potent thing. If you want to see them fly just go to YouTube and watch their practice runs. Screamers and would be screamers in the ½ mile too but need chutes to stop just like the GTr that ran 214mph.

On the whole, I wish I’d been there to watch but I came away with some apparent data which shifted my paradigm on engines, speed and power in ways I did not expect.

Good job by everyone of our era Z’s that ran! I can’t forget talking to Wayne Hale about his 90’s Z with the custom twin turbos on it and how he has to handle it for the speed and power it generates. Get enough clues and eventually you have to think about the approach it seems to me.

Lance


You were there, what are your conclusions, Paul?

Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

They also just put out the vid of some of the runs.
three of us made the show!

Dean Nelson

Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

Yep! here is the video. There are glimpses of several of our Zs, including a side by side run, between (I think) Marc and Dean?? You really had to be there to appreciate the whole experience. I tell ya, it could spoil ya against that "mundane" 1/4 stuff forever!! GAWD... What a rush!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5ke8...ature=youtu.be

P.

Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

Most excellent! At 2:41 and 4:28 are pretty good Z's and the purple aero (Robert's?) is in there as well. In motion the cars all looked terrific. Good video.

Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

Paul, that was not me with Marc, it might have been Phil or his son in his car.
I am at about 2.40 or so on my first run of the day with a Dodge, it is the dark red one with the chrome wheels.

Dean

Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

Nice Run, Dean! Your car looked good moving out!

Lance

Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

Lance,
Thanks......but I could not hook it up for the life of me. I had to start at about 1100-1200 RPM and feed it in as fast as it would take it. Not like a drag strip!
I wanted to power shift 1-2 and 2-3 but their was no traction, even with the lift shift it still moved around. I do not know for sure if the power shift would have helped the top MPH, but I think it would have. Might have been 2-3 MPH better but not worth the risk at the time.

like Paul said it was a lot of fun to try this one time. some day I would like to try a mile but as Paul knows you got to have room to stop it!

Dean

Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

Dean, Before I got my 76 or my 91 Z my oldest friend from college in Colorado where I'm going in a week to celebrate their 50th is friends with Dave Hill and his wife and a couple times they were at dinner with us. I would love to talk to Dave now as he was on duty for C5 and C6 then retired. he came from caddy and has a racing background.

Dave told Dick who passed it on to me that when they were building the C5 and C6 they built the transmission so that you could just slam it from first to second, second to third, third to fourth without even touching the clutch for racing though it would shorten the life of some of the components....They slammed them around on prototypes on test tracks and streets pretty hard he told Dick. Dave was the Corvette Chief Engineer for the C5 and 6.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Hi...otive_engineer)

One of the other things in the video is that in several you can see what I feel when I push mine: the front end lifts when you are in the next gear up momentarily.

Did you have tire issues, Dean?

Lance

Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

I think you're math is on target, but as for a hypothetical between Bob G and the ZO6s that won the N/A class, I'd lay some cash on Bob G and not bat an eyelash. Bob's 1/4 trap is faster than my car by 2-3 mph and I know that shifting into overdrive with the automatic after mid-track hurt my mph a lot. My RPMs were only about 5800 when passing the 1/2 mile mark - way below power peak. With the 6-speed, that wouldn't be a problem for Bob. I predict he'd gain 27-28 mph in the 1/2 mile over the 1/4 and run about 162-163, and take the ZO6 comfortably.

At the risk of sounding like a spoil sport, I wish they had an ET clock out there. My first run was a 159.0 mph - went heads up against one of the shop tuner cars - entry #171 the Nissan 350Z Dynosty Twin Turbo who ran 165.5 mph. He was about 5 car lengths behind me. I think he thought he was going to win when he lined up against a poor old N/A C4 Vette.....

Re: Wanna Go Fast Day 1
 

lance once you boostamuv you'll fogive the whistle. pick up the latest hot rod. ford built new sportsman block boss coyote packing an inexpensive TT kit putting 1230+ at the wheels. the drive train became the limiting factor. as many will tell you, the lt5 is difficult to turbo, but clearly it's durable.

if you even want to see the world through a screaming face, you can drive the LSV, and then take a ride in the TT Z06. even though the LSx motor is a pig compared to the technically superior LT5, the boost covers a variety of engineering sins and makes the jam

I'll eventually get my TT ZR-1 off the ground, but it's going to take quite a bit more cash to do it.

when you price out the LT5 mods, running a boosted LT5 starts to become attractive. now that we have the megasquirt, (and you can use the factory ecm if you are patient enough) all it takes is a pile o cash and talent.

the TT kit for the LS6 Z06 is 12k and now that's considered expensive. the new "truck manifold" kits that make plenty of power can be had for half that and are getting better in quality.

I think that the factory LT5 manifolds could be modified in similar fashion to run the turbos in the "gills" of the C4 and make an affordable solution.

when you look at alchy injection or e85 and a "dual fuel" approach, even the high compression could be made to work to avoid a tear down.

limiting factor is the amount of cyl pressure the factory headgasket will take with the open deck design.

and cyl pressure, airflow and fuel, no matter how you get there is what makes the power.

it's just that the LT5 has always been considered "too complicated" and too expensive to mess with. hogwash, my wifes BMW is more complicated by far. the LT5 is a pretty simple and elegant DOHC motor.

I'm NO ford fan, but the little coyote, isn't all that bad, and with the crate motor running around 6k, one might be going in my old Trans Am in lieu of a BB chevy or LSx motor. just got to wait for you guessed it, more CASH!!

let me know if you want to talk turbos or experience the power of the dark side. turbos and boost is very addictive.