Twin Turbo ZR-1 musing

[rkreigh]

I know the raptor kit is a great alternative, but I've been thinking about this alot lately

use a set of 93 stock manifolds with a short fabricated "stub pipe" welded directly to them for the turbos.

relocate the battery so the air intakes could be positioned in the fender gills to simplify the plumbing.

run the cold side from the turbo compressor up over the inner fender like LPE did. nice TTiX style front mount intercooler with "cool tanks" (fabricated cooling jackets on the end tanks to allow chilling the intercooler for racing). there is lots of room up front for a good intercooler. a small pump and ice tank would be all thats needed to "precool" the intercooler for a drag strip pass

use a megasquirt for controlling the secondary injectors with the wide band o2s to help with tuning. retain the stock ecm for the spark control, and ez part throttle tuning. run a BIG secondary injector, an 80 lb should do it. upgrade the stock intank fuel pumps with bosch pumps to provide enough fuel for 1000 hp (probably only need to replace the secondary pump)

and for all this consulting work help me install some big liners in the LSV 390, freshen it up with low compression pistons, and I'll trade you my nice Stg II cams for a nice set of stock 93-95 cams.

before I go I need to build a TT ZR-1. after riding around in an LPE TT car with Will B. I just won't be right until I have one.

and even better, if Raptor and Corey and get the megsquirt thing figured out so we can run the whole thing "plug and play" with the running everything of the megqsquirt, and integrate with the factory dash and wiring, it will really be cool!

I really believe this can be done. with the cost of the modded LT5 coming down it could work.

want to really do it on the cheap? run E85 on a "stock block" with the big injectors and fuel pumps, and you'll make all the power you could ever want and never touch the engine!!!

might even be able to do it just with advanced alchy injection with pump gas. the lt5 engine is pretty strong and the stock pistons aren't all that weak either. 9 psi would work just fine with the right computer system, tuning, and meth injection to keep it from detonating.

exciting stuff don't you think? we have the technology.

how about it FBI guys? good project with Marc and Pete working together

love to see Aaron Scott do more of his TT cars, and of course I'm interested in the Raptor setup.

like Will Smith said in "independence day" I gotz to git me onna deez

[RICKYRJ1]

I would be down for a ZR-1 TT once a reliable package is put together.

[RHanselman]

Originally Posted by RICKYRJ1

I would be down for a ZR-1 TT once a reliable package is put together.

Well you're several years late

My TT ZR-1 is as reliable day to day as my stock car. And that's with the stock ECM. She put's down 613 rwhp at 10 psi...

[rkreigh]

Originally Posted by RHanselman

Well you're several years late

My TT ZR-1 is as reliable day to day as my stock car. And that's with the stock ECM. She put's down 613 rwhp at 10 psi...

no doubt! 613 from a low compression LT5 is no joke and about as much power as you can put down. I have some personal preference to the front mount turbos for simplicity, but after seeing so many great results from the rear mounts it's probably just not needed to "re engineer" a solution.

however, I wanted to put some ideas out there as I'm seeing the LSx boys doing some really innovative things with the factory manifolds on both single and twin turbo front mount systems.

Ron, any change you and Corey might be interested in the idea down the road?

for sure the Raptor is a "proven approach" that sure looks good!

please understand, not trying to steal any thunder, just putting ideas out there.

keep us posted on the Raptor Megasquirt solution. it would be fairly easy to step up the fuel system and injectors to run on E85 which would allow a "stock block" LT5 to run much higher boost without a tear down and my bet is that it would last a long time as long as you are willing to live with E85 not always being avaialbe. with the megasquirt, that becomes a "non issue" just craft a pump gas tune, lower the boost with the boost controller (manual or electronic) and reload the tune on the fly in case you can't get E85 during travel.

very exciting stuff.

[RHanselman]

Originally Posted by rkreigh

no doubt! 613 from a low compression LT5 is no joke and about as much power as you can put down.

I'm not at the limit just yet. I'm only pushing 10 psi and the engine was built for 15. I need to change my IC and the exhaust housing on the turbo's. I believe I can get 800+ from this setup. It may require a larger center exhaust pipe but that's yet to be determined.

Originally Posted by rkreigh

I have some personal preference to the front mount turbos for simplicity, but after seeing so many great results from the rear mounts it's probably just not needed to "re engineer" a solution.

After working with my rear mount I would say it's simpler just because of the room requirements. It's much easier to get to everything on the rear mount. The oil return system is a little more complex but it's been a proven design on both my LT5 and LT1 rear mount cars.

Originally Posted by rkreigh

Ron, any change you and Corey might be interested in the idea down the road?

Yes, Corey has expressed a desire to go for 1000+ rwhp. He just needs someone with the desire and deeper pockets than required for the rear mount.

Originally Posted by rkreigh

please understand, not trying to steal any thunder, just putting ideas out there.

Yes I understand... I know you've been dreaming about this and have lot's of traditional idea's. I'm just fortunate enough to have been able to pursue an alternate avenue that I and some others have thought to be a more economical means to more RWHP. Plus the benefits of removing heat from under the hood and moving weight to the rear of our cars is of some real benefit.

Originally Posted by rkreigh

keep us posted on the Raptor Megasquirt solution. it would be fairly easy to step up the fuel system and injectors to run on E85 which would allow a "stock block" LT5 to run much higher boost without a tear down and my bet is that it would last a long time as long as you are willing to live with E85 not always being available. with the megasquirt, that becomes a "non issue" just craft a pump gas tune, lower the boost with the boost controller (manual or electronic) and reload the tune on the fly in case you can't get E85 during travel.

very exciting stuff.

E85 is an option with the new ECM. Mod the Fuel System and you're in there.

I've been kicking around sending the test Ruby to Corey after Megasquirt is finished. The idea would be to install the Raptor LT1 Single Turbo system on the LT5 car, add Meth for a safety margin and then turn up the boost to 6-8 psi. I believe we could see 550 rwhp from the stock block. I'm not just pulling these numbers out of thin air... There's another single turbo car out there that achieved those numbers however it didn't last long before needing a new head gasket. I believe the new ECM and Meth protection should keep her safe... I may install Jerry's head gaskets as an added safety measure but that's more $ of course... This would be a sub $10k upgrade.

On another note. Last update from the Megasquirt guys said they were on the dyno this week. Last report before that said they had a little more integration work to do with the A/C but that was it. I assume... that means all the other sub-systems are working as they should. I'll know more this Friday...

Cheers,
Ron

[rkreigh]

that is awesome news about the megasquirt I was browsing these and they have come down in cost and up in quality which is amazing.

if you can figure out how to replace the stock ecm and get everthing to work you will at last have a great computer to tune on the fly and make the bigger injectors, e85, and turbos possible

I'm warming up the rear mount stuff as the modern turbos flat out work depite the "nay sayers" about turbos requiring heat ect....

bottom line is that the more efficient turbos spool up just fine.

I need to talk to you and corey more about this setup as it's really coming together and thanks again for all your hard work to pave the way for more twin turbo ZR-1s.

gotta keep up with those c5 boys. I hit 70 deg and got out the old c5 TT, the 71 Trans Am today to play a little. spring fever big time in the middle of winter.

hope to see you guys hit 800 rwhp soon. I think it might almost be enough =D>

[Ben@DIYAutoTune]

Originally Posted by RHanselman

E85 is an option with the new ECM.

E-85 is definitely an option. A quick twist of the power select switch on the dash can allow you to switch between 2 different calibrations, so you could set up for pump gas on one and E-85 on the other (or any other type of fuel, high octane, leaded, meth, whatever you want to run).

The table switch feature is prepared to handle 2 different fuel requests and allows to swap fuel table, ignition advance table, air/fuel target table, stoichometric point, boost table and overboost shut off, and startup and warmup characteristics. Each feature can be turned on or off individually. It's also able to run 2 different banks of injectors so if one were inclined to keep the primaries fed by gasoline and the secondaries fed by E-85 or methanol, it can handle that as well.

I'm comfortable enough with the project to speak about it more openly, if you're also comfortable Ron. The a/c controls have been tested, and your car is on the dyno. Our superstar tuner had to run home today due to a family emergency (his 1-year old came down with something). Hopefully he's back in tomorrow so we can get back to testing everything out and setting a base calibration.

[RICKYRJ1]

Originally Posted by RHanselman

Well you're several years late

My TT ZR-1 is as reliable day to day as my stock car. And that's with the stock ECM. She put's down 613 rwhp at 10 psi...

Glad to hear it, looking forward to your see your upgraded package. Thanks for the time, $, and dedication to the cause.

[Schrade]

Does the aerodynamic create slight vacuum at the side grilles, at speed / stock configuration?

[Ben@DIYAutoTune]

I love E-85 as far as power per dollar is concerned. If you're interested, check out Grassroots Motorsports Magazine's December 2012 issue for a fuel test we conducted for them. We compared E-85 vs standard pump gas (10% ethanol), non-ethanol fuel, methanol, and a couple flavors of VP high octane. The car we used for the test (not a Corvette, a Miata--a potential race car in reach by the average guy) picked up 5% on E-85 compared to pump 93. The effect can be much greater on a turbo car, especially one that is det-limited before MBT is found.

There are tradeoffs however, such as fuel consumption on E-85 is much greater (around 160%) compared to pump gas.