"Off the hook" NO start. - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

POWERBRAKEBOB · 05-28-2013

Well, I have been reading the "NO START" logs here for days. Had to jump in with something far beyond.
My car, a 1991 Turquoise, no. 334, now has 250,000 miles on it. Probably the highest in the world.
It developed a knock some time ago, and I finally figured out it was a bad injector. Replaced one, and drove on.
The car has been sitting for some years. Drove it out of storage, and within a few days, the fuel pump quit. I had replaced it before. I replaced it recently, and still would not run. traced back to the relays, and finally started.
I had the "Dreaded No start" since it the time it piled up 45,000 miles. Pour cold water down the valley, and it would crank.
It was running rough, so I replaced the primary injectors with new Accels. Ran different, but still had a dead cylinder. Pulled plugs and no. 3 was wet. O.K. a stuck secondary injector. While waiting for another 8 injectors, I put one of the old injectors in no. 3. It ran good!
I pulled up to enter a gate code, and I thot it was in neutral. it wasn't. I let the clutch out and killed it. From then on, it has not started. It was if a wire had popped off a connection.
Years ago, I had run a wire from the solenoid to the battery to crank it. It had been cranking, but no pumps running. I pulled them out and wired them to the battery. Pumps ran fine.
Cranked, but Still no start. Then, the next day, after replacing more relays, It would not crank at all.
So, to test, I hit my hot wire to the solenoid, and just sparks. NO crank.
I knew the starter was NOT working at that time.
The old drain hole in the valley was clogged with grease, as it turns out from a dripping PCV Hose unit that was broke open. Looking in there, it looked like bilge water from power washing and the oil build up, drowning the starter.
PULLED it out, and rebuilt it. The company I got the field coil from gave me the wrong one. It spun backwards! Back out it came.
I also took the time to clean out the valley, and drill the drain hole at an angle, and much larger. Drains now. I installed MSD coils, too.
I will be installing a Ford style starter relay to slam the battery power to the solenoid. I had bypassed the clutch switch 20 years ago.
HERE'S THE QUESTION; During all of this, I noticed the ECM fuse was blown. This makes me nervous. I have had the plenum off 8 times doing all of this. Can do it in minutes.
BUT, I am not seeing the system start the pumps via the computer. Vats key code is bypassed. PRIOR to all of this, it showed a code 54, which is low voltage TO the FP relay. I am concerned about the ECM and the CCM> When I installed the Pioneer 3300, all went well electronically, but I don't know about the CCM being disturbed the Pioneer was installed 2 years ago.

scottfab · 05-28-2013

I've read though this three times now. It's hard to know where to begin. It would seem there could be at least 5 different threads started from the different topics you've brought up.
The one overall thing I did pickup on is that many systems have been altered (modified). Because of that I hesitate to comment or suggest things.

The one thing I can say is, anytime you pull out the fuel pumps and attach them to the battery you damage them. They are designed to be run while submerged. Gasoline becomes the lubricant for the bearing surfaces as well as keeping the contacts from arcing in the presents of oxygen. Anytime the pumps are run while not submerged you damage them. If not totally then partially such that you age them prematurely big time.

POWERBRAKEBOB · 05-29-2013

Thanks, Scott. I only ran the pumps for a second just to see IF they ran, which they did. I know better than to run the pumps dry. They had NOT been running about half the time since pulling out of storage.
A long time ago, ( I bought this car new) I had ran a wire from the solenoid to the battery area to hot start it when the key would not. When it first died recently, it would crank, but not run.
AFTER I had discovered that the starter was lying in bilge, from the drip out of the broken PCV hose, and the water from a wash job 2 weeks ago, I tapped that hot wire, and just sparks, no cranky. The valley drain hole was plugged with this oily goo. I then ANGLE drilled out the drain hole to 7/16" for more of a straight drain.
The brush plate in the starter had rusted and the brushes barely contacting. I replaced that, and today, after installing the starter, I also installed new MSD coils. RE- assembled everything, and VOILA! IT STARTED. It now shreds the tires, just like in the days of old.
I think the shorted starter had fried all the relays. The car had been in storage for 5 years. The original injectors, at 250,000 miles were just giving problems. One had stuck OPEN hosing down #3 plug. I have not installed the Ford starter relay yet, but I will soon.

Schrade · 05-29-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by POWERBRAKEBOB

Thanks, Scott. I only ran the pumps for a second just to see IF they ran, which they did. I know better than to run the pumps dry. They had NOT been running about half the time since pulling out of storage.
A long time ago, ( I bought this car new) I had ran a wire from the solenoid to the battery area to hot start it when the key would not. When it first died recently, it would crank, but not run.
AFTER I had discovered that the starter was lying in bilge, from the drip out of the broken PCV hose, and the water from a wash job 2 weeks ago, I tapped that hot wire, and just sparks, no cranky. The valley drain hole was plugged with this oily goo. I then ANGLE drilled out the drain hole to 7/16" for more of a straight drain.
The brush plate in the starter had rusted and the brushes barely contacting. I replaced that, and today, after installing the starter, I also installed new MSD coils. RE- assembled everything, and VOILA! IT STARTED. It now shreds the tires, just like in the days of old.
I think the shorted starter had fried all the relays. The car had been in storage for 5 years. The original injectors, at 250,000 miles were just giving problems. One had stuck OPEN hosing down #3 plug. I have not installed the Ford starter relay yet, but I will soon.

Probably hosing down the cylinder too; maybe a squeeze check is in order for that hole? How many miles with the injector stuck???

scottfab · 05-30-2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by POWERBRAKEBOB

Thanks, Scott
.... snip.....

, and today, after installing the starter, I also installed new MSD coils. RE- assembled everything, and VOILA! IT STARTED. It now shreds the tires, just like in the days of old.
... snip....
.

Good to hear !!!
It's always good to hear another ZR-1 is on the road.=D>

05-28-2013	#1
POWERBRAKEBOB Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: HUNTINGTON BEACH, CALIF. Posts: 38	"Off the hook" NO start. Well, I have been reading the "NO START" logs here for days. Had to jump in with something far beyond. My car, a 1991 Turquoise, no. 334, now has 250,000 miles on it. Probably the highest in the world. It developed a knock some time ago, and I finally figured out it was a bad injector. Replaced one, and drove on. The car has been sitting for some years. Drove it out of storage, and within a few days, the fuel pump quit. I had replaced it before. I replaced it recently, and still would not run. traced back to the relays, and finally started. I had the "Dreaded No start" since it the time it piled up 45,000 miles. Pour cold water down the valley, and it would crank. It was running rough, so I replaced the primary injectors with new Accels. Ran different, but still had a dead cylinder. Pulled plugs and no. 3 was wet. O.K. a stuck secondary injector. While waiting for another 8 injectors, I put one of the old injectors in no. 3. It ran good! I pulled up to enter a gate code, and I thot it was in neutral. it wasn't. I let the clutch out and killed it. From then on, it has not started. It was if a wire had popped off a connection. Years ago, I had run a wire from the solenoid to the battery to crank it. It had been cranking, but no pumps running. I pulled them out and wired them to the battery. Pumps ran fine. Cranked, but Still no start. Then, the next day, after replacing more relays, It would not crank at all. So, to test, I hit my hot wire to the solenoid, and just sparks. NO crank. I knew the starter was NOT working at that time. The old drain hole in the valley was clogged with grease, as it turns out from a dripping PCV Hose unit that was broke open. Looking in there, it looked like bilge water from power washing and the oil build up, drowning the starter. PULLED it out, and rebuilt it. The company I got the field coil from gave me the wrong one. It spun backwards! Back out it came. I also took the time to clean out the valley, and drill the drain hole at an angle, and much larger. Drains now. I installed MSD coils, too. I will be installing a Ford style starter relay to slam the battery power to the solenoid. I had bypassed the clutch switch 20 years ago. HERE'S THE QUESTION; During all of this, I noticed the ECM fuse was blown. This makes me nervous. I have had the plenum off 8 times doing all of this. Can do it in minutes. BUT, I am not seeing the system start the pumps via the computer. Vats key code is bypassed. PRIOR to all of this, it showed a code 54, which is low voltage TO the FP relay. I am concerned about the ECM and the CCM> When I installed the Pioneer 3300, all went well electronically, but I don't know about the CCM being disturbed the Pioneer was installed 2 years ago.

05-28-2013	#2
scottfab Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Portland Oregon metro area (Washington side) Posts: 3,207	Re: "Off the hook" NO start. I've read though this three times now. It's hard to know where to begin. It would seem there could be at least 5 different threads started from the different topics you've brought up. The one overall thing I did pickup on is that many systems have been altered (modified). Because of that I hesitate to comment or suggest things. The one thing I can say is, anytime you pull out the fuel pumps and attach them to the battery you damage them. They are designed to be run while submerged. Gasoline becomes the lubricant for the bearing surfaces as well as keeping the contacts from arcing in the presents of oxygen. Anytime the pumps are run while not submerged you damage them. If not totally then partially such that you age them prematurely big time. __________________ Scott Vett owner since 1979._It's about the car and the people

05-29-2013	#3
POWERBRAKEBOB Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: HUNTINGTON BEACH, CALIF. Posts: 38	Re: "Off the hook" NO start. Thanks, Scott. I only ran the pumps for a second just to see IF they ran, which they did. I know better than to run the pumps dry. They had NOT been running about half the time since pulling out of storage. A long time ago, ( I bought this car new) I had ran a wire from the solenoid to the battery area to hot start it when the key would not. When it first died recently, it would crank, but not run. AFTER I had discovered that the starter was lying in bilge, from the drip out of the broken PCV hose, and the water from a wash job 2 weeks ago, I tapped that hot wire, and just sparks, no cranky. The valley drain hole was plugged with this oily goo. I then ANGLE drilled out the drain hole to 7/16" for more of a straight drain. The brush plate in the starter had rusted and the brushes barely contacting. I replaced that, and today, after installing the starter, I also installed new MSD coils. RE- assembled everything, and VOILA! IT STARTED. It now shreds the tires, just like in the days of old. I think the shorted starter had fried all the relays. The car had been in storage for 5 years. The original injectors, at 250,000 miles were just giving problems. One had stuck OPEN hosing down #3 plug. I have not installed the Ford starter relay yet, but I will soon.