Switched to RAM dual-disc clutch, some questions - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

c4koh · 11-09-2014

All,

I just switched to a RAM dual-disc clutch with a hydraulic bearing. I made various measurements and will write these up shortly. Old fork and old slave (clean fluid coming out) both seemed OK.

Anyway - filled up the transmission with the Castrol M-Series BMW oil per latest advice on same, and put everything back together. All good.

Clutch engagement is as expected - quite high - but not a problem. Pedal effort is about the same, and feels "certain", meaning I feel that there is a clean engagement and disengagement.

Rounding it off, hat tip to Jerry at Jerry's Gaskets for all of his help. Supplied kit included the flywheel from Jerry also. So, new flywheel, new dual disc clutch setup, new hydraulic slave bearing throwout (push spring in). This coming from OE dual mass flywheel for info.

Questions if anyone can help.

1. I've driven reasonably sedately to break in clutch to new flywheel.
Smell of burning clutch, not severe, but certainly there.
I cannot find if this is expected on a new flywheel mating surface, and I think it is (so far only 120 miles), but if not would be good to know.

2. When I put everything back together, started up, very little noise. Slight chatter, which was expected, and good.
Funnily enough, this week (it is colder), started the car up and a real metallic tick-tick-tick with clutch engaged. Push my foot on clutch pedal, disengage, ticking goes away. Foot off, clutch re-engages, ticking again... and rises with revs. This at idle or in gear.
Drive for less than 1 mile / 2-3 minutes, sound goes away completely - back to slight chatter (chatter / slight "scrape" noise).
Clutch disengages (no problem shifting) and feels very engaged.
It seems like after it "warms up" the ticking sound disappears. Ticking does not appear whatsoever until everything back cold again...

3. I believe this is symptom of no-longer having the DM, but I do get more noise through the transmission on any throttle. Does not sound bad, no bad vibration, just more noise.
I have read that this may be normal, but again just double-checking.

Any input appreciated, thanks!

Steve

5ABI VT · 11-09-2014

Steve is the engagement high as in when starting from a stop.. you are letting the pedal out almost fully before it engages?

c4koh · 11-09-2014

Mike - no, the engagement is gradual enough, just high on the pedal. Hard to recall, but with the OE fork/throwout, I'd reckon on the bite around half to two-thirds high, full bitten in by 3/4 to 4/5, and last inch or so of pedal fully released no difference... with this, bite doesn't kick-in until around 2/3 to 3/4, and is full bite is at around 7/8 or even 15/16 (ever so light tap on clutch you can feel disengagement...) ... So in short, "full bite" seems to be 3/4 (stock) vs. 7/8 (this), just from my own personal observation.

Anyway, it works well, just the questions above :-)

5ABI VT · 11-09-2014

I was just thinking.. and I need to sit and try and think it through lol just at work atm but Since its an adjustable bearing.. setting it up with different shims should let the clutch engage at different points ie move the engagement point slightly. As you know Im no expert on the hydraulic setup just speaking my mind. I have had 3 clutches done in the past.. one centerforce on my lt1 car, then the McLeod street twin and a setup on my m3.. ive never had any clutch burning smell.

Have you tried upping a gear at a low speed and giving a bit of throttle to see if it would slip? that clutch has a ton of holding power.

c4koh · 11-10-2014

Mike - it's currently seated without any shims, all measurements confirmed this ... as did the final fitting. With the bearing fully retracted, there's 0.150-0.200" of space between the bearing face and the springs, with it fully engaged it pushes the springs in, and clearly dis-engages the clutch. This was tested before I bolted everything together: put the transmission in 4th (1:1 ratio, btw) and clutch pedal out (clutch engaged), I could not turn the driveshaft by hand... clutch pedal in, everything disengaged, still in 4th, I could turn the driveshaft by hand.

I drilled a 1.5" window in the bell-housing (necessary to easily adjust the bearing onto its guide) and can visually see the engagement/dis-engagement too.

So, the high pedal is itself just how it is. You can buy a pedal adjuster which can move whereabouts in the pedal it bites, but I'm fine with it as-is.

Jagdpanzer · 11-10-2014

I've had the same experiences with the Ram DD I installed a few months ago. The ZF gear rattle became to much to live with so I'm replacing the aluminum FW with a heavier steel version from Ram. To address the high pedal and clutch smell I will be installing the pedal height adjuster dashpot Ram offers in the clutch line.

c4koh · 11-10-2014

Hi Phil -

Thanks for your note. High pedal is fine for me. I have the FW supplied by Jerry in his kit, I believe it's still Aluminum but not a super light-weight FW, more weighted for the ZR1 I believe, based on his specs. I shoulda weighed it before I put in in to check, but didn't think to.

In any case, I still get the ticking on startup, but it goes away when warm... but always a good rattle on throttle through the ZF.

Interesting that you're still getting clutch smell after a few months... mine is not bad, just it's definitely there...

Steve

cvette98pacecar · 11-11-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagdpanzer

I've had the same experiences with the Ram DD I installed a few months ago. The ZF gear rattle became to much to live with so I'm replacing the aluminum FW with a heavier steel version from Ram. To address the high pedal and clutch smell I will be installing the pedal height adjuster dashpot Ram offers in the clutch line.

Phil, Let us know what you had to get for parts besides the pedal height adjuster. My Ruby and LPE have Carolina Stage II clutches that engage high, I would like to adjust the engagement back to the floor where it belongs.

A26B · 11-11-2014

I have added the RAM Pedal Adjuster System to our store.

http://www.jerrysgaskets.com/ram-ped...nt-system-000/

c4koh · 11-11-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvette98pacecar

Phil, Let us know what you had to get for parts besides the pedal height adjuster. My Ruby and LPE have Carolina Stage II clutches that engage high, I would like to adjust the engagement back to the floor where it belongs.

As Jerry just posted, this pedal adjuster is for the hydraulic bearing, which has replaced the OE clutch slave, fork and pull-type throwout bearing.

I am not aware of any such adjustment for the OE pull-type which you may have on your CC Stage II clutch.

11-09-2014	#1
c4koh Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fishkill, NY Posts: 87	Switched to RAM dual-disc clutch, some questions All, I just switched to a RAM dual-disc clutch with a hydraulic bearing. I made various measurements and will write these up shortly. Old fork and old slave (clean fluid coming out) both seemed OK. Anyway - filled up the transmission with the Castrol M-Series BMW oil per latest advice on same, and put everything back together. All good. Clutch engagement is as expected - quite high - but not a problem. Pedal effort is about the same, and feels "certain", meaning I feel that there is a clean engagement and disengagement. Rounding it off, hat tip to Jerry at Jerry's Gaskets for all of his help. Supplied kit included the flywheel from Jerry also. So, new flywheel, new dual disc clutch setup, new hydraulic slave bearing throwout (push spring in). This coming from OE dual mass flywheel for info. Questions if anyone can help. 1. I've driven reasonably sedately to break in clutch to new flywheel. Smell of burning clutch, not severe, but certainly there. I cannot find if this is expected on a new flywheel mating surface, and I think it is (so far only 120 miles), but if not would be good to know. 2. When I put everything back together, started up, very little noise. Slight chatter, which was expected, and good. Funnily enough, this week (it is colder), started the car up and a real metallic tick-tick-tick with clutch engaged. Push my foot on clutch pedal, disengage, ticking goes away. Foot off, clutch re-engages, ticking again... and rises with revs. This at idle or in gear. Drive for less than 1 mile / 2-3 minutes, sound goes away completely - back to slight chatter (chatter / slight "scrape" noise). Clutch disengages (no problem shifting) and feels very engaged. It seems like after it "warms up" the ticking sound disappears. Ticking does not appear whatsoever until everything back cold again... 3. I believe this is symptom of no-longer having the DM, but I do get more noise through the transmission on any throttle. Does not sound bad, no bad vibration, just more noise. I have read that this may be normal, but again just double-checking. Any input appreciated, thanks! Steve

11-09-2014	#2
5ABI VT Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 782	Re: Switched to RAM dual-disc clutch, some questions Steve is the engagement high as in when starting from a stop.. you are letting the pedal out almost fully before it engages?

11-09-2014	#3
c4koh Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fishkill, NY Posts: 87	Re: Switched to RAM dual-disc clutch, some questions Mike - no, the engagement is gradual enough, just high on the pedal. Hard to recall, but with the OE fork/throwout, I'd reckon on the bite around half to two-thirds high, full bitten in by 3/4 to 4/5, and last inch or so of pedal fully released no difference... with this, bite doesn't kick-in until around 2/3 to 3/4, and is full bite is at around 7/8 or even 15/16 (ever so light tap on clutch you can feel disengagement...) ... So in short, "full bite" seems to be 3/4 (stock) vs. 7/8 (this), just from my own personal observation. Anyway, it works well, just the questions above :-)

11-09-2014	#4
5ABI VT Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 782	Re: Switched to RAM dual-disc clutch, some questions I was just thinking.. and I need to sit and try and think it through lol just at work atm but Since its an adjustable bearing.. setting it up with different shims should let the clutch engage at different points ie move the engagement point slightly. As you know Im no expert on the hydraulic setup just speaking my mind. I have had 3 clutches done in the past.. one centerforce on my lt1 car, then the McLeod street twin and a setup on my m3.. ive never had any clutch burning smell. Have you tried upping a gear at a low speed and giving a bit of throttle to see if it would slip? that clutch has a ton of holding power.

11-10-2014	#5
c4koh Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fishkill, NY Posts: 87	Re: Switched to RAM dual-disc clutch, some questions Mike - it's currently seated without any shims, all measurements confirmed this ... as did the final fitting. With the bearing fully retracted, there's 0.150-0.200" of space between the bearing face and the springs, with it fully engaged it pushes the springs in, and clearly dis-engages the clutch. This was tested before I bolted everything together: put the transmission in 4th (1:1 ratio, btw) and clutch pedal out (clutch engaged), I could not turn the driveshaft by hand... clutch pedal in, everything disengaged, still in 4th, I could turn the driveshaft by hand. I drilled a 1.5" window in the bell-housing (necessary to easily adjust the bearing onto its guide) and can visually see the engagement/dis-engagement too. So, the high pedal is itself just how it is. You can buy a pedal adjuster which can move whereabouts in the pedal it bites, but I'm fine with it as-is.

11-10-2014	#6
Jagdpanzer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Northern VA Posts: 2,644	Re: Switched to RAM dual-disc clutch, some questions I've had the same experiences with the Ram DD I installed a few months ago. The ZF gear rattle became to much to live with so I'm replacing the aluminum FW with a heavier steel version from Ram. To address the high pedal and clutch smell I will be installing the pedal height adjuster dashpot Ram offers in the clutch line. __________________ Phil Wasinger 1994 Torch Red ZR-1 WAZOO Member George Braml Intake

11-11-2014	#9
A26B Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Arcadia,OK Posts: 3,373	Re: Switched to RAM dual-disc clutch, some questions I have added the RAM Pedal Adjuster System to our store. http://www.jerrysgaskets.com/ram-ped...nt-system-000/ __________________ Jerry Downey JERRYS LT5 GASKETS & PARTS http://www.jerrysgaskets.com 1994 *ZR-1*, Black/Black, Lingenfelter Aerobody, 416cu in, 3.91 gears, coil-over susp, Brembo brakes, etc. 2016 Black-Red, 3LT-Z51 Auto 8-speed.