Clutch & Flywheel Replacement - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

c4koh · 09-24-2014

All,

Per my other thread (clutch disk disintegration), I'm half-way through the replacement... being, I removed everything and just received from Carolina Clutch a new lightweight aluminum Fidanza flywheel, and Stage 2 kit.

There is not too much written up in the "Solutions" on clutch / flywheel replacement, so I'm going to summarize my notes (I take notes on every task, and also photos, which I then go through backwards upon re-installation... I'll write them up and share). Since I've researched many notes, some replies from folks who have very good experience leave a lot of detail out, and so to help people like me, who may not have the same level of experience, but certainly want to try it - happy to encourage it!

So far, two dilemmas presented themselves, which extensive searching didn't clarify one way or another:

1. re-use of old existing flywheel bolts.
I got a replacement set in the clutch kit from Carolina Clutch, but also got from Jerry's Gaskets the ARP "torque converter" set.
I could not ascertain if the original bolts should be re-used: I could see no information that they were, indeed, torque to yield so I think they could.
However, they are 2 inches long and the different thickness of the single mass flywheel v. the original dual mass flywheel, from what I could gather, confirms need for new, shorter bolts.
I'm traveling at the moment, but will easily confirm this when I get back.

2. use of red loctite on the flywheel bolts and pressure plate.
In the "solutions" section, Red Loctite is recommended for the FW and PP bolts. And I've hunted high and low on the internet, and it seems folks use red, use blue, or use nothing... as long as they're torqued correctly, it seems all good.
Now some folks did have their FW bolts working their way loose, but judging by the post, these may not have been fully torqued and/or the engine was being revved very high (9000+ RPM).
So in conclusion, I think that you could get away without red loctiting them, and the blue is a sort of useful option compared to nothing in keeping them snug.
But... even if you could get away with it, I've decided to red loctite them. My figuring being it certainly can't hurt, but more since the flywheel and pressure plate bolts are very easy to get to, they can be heat-torched out when I replace... so I decided for it.

And one question, which Tom @ CC confirmed, which was "which way around does the [Stage 2] clutch disk go" - answer is the raised spring cage (i.e. where the spring cage extends out of the main plate, and there is the funnel spline tapering out around an inch... the other side of the plate being completely flat)... the flat side should go against the pressure plate, and the raised spring cage and spline snout should poke into the flywheel...
If I understood it correctly, again, I'm traveling so will check when back... but believe so.

Would anyone have any gotchas for putting it all back together? Any other advice?

Will write up my removal and re-installation once complete.

By the way, on a scale of 1-10, getting everything out was a 7. Liquid Wrench used on all bolts, which I do as a matter of course just in case (not sure if every bolt needed it, but since the spray takes 1 second, I do it out of habit). Really not too bad, and the C-Beam plates which I was worried about were no problem at all - just lock a spare wrench above to stop it spinning, and the bolts came right off.

Car is jacked up on 21" "SUV" stands, which works well enough, and with just me (no help!) all was doable... trickiest part was maneuvering the transmission on my makeshift transmission plate (2" x 8" x 1 foot slab of wood with a small 1.5" detent drilled to rest the transmission oil drain plug), placed on a regular jack... I've since got a better transmission jack for that, but perfectly doable by one person.

The only pain was the clutch bell housing bolts, because of their positioning, and the catalyst heat shields bolts (IIRC two small 10mm bolts).

A26B · 09-24-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4koh

.................................................. ........
1. re-use of old existing flywheel bolts.
I got a replacement set in the clutch kit from Carolina Clutch, but also got from Jerry's Gaskets the ARP "torque converter" set.
I could not ascertain if the original bolts should be re-used: I could see no information that they were, indeed, torque to yield so I think they could.
However, they are 2 inches long and the different thickness of the single mass flywheel v. the original dual mass flywheel, from what I could gather, confirms need for new, shorter bolts.
.................................................. ........................

The original bolts for the Dual Mass Flywheel can be re-used for the same application, BUT not with the Fidanza alum flywheel, they are too long.

I don't know anything about the ARP "torque converter" set of ARP bolts. We buy our ARP flywheel bolts in bulk from ARP, as per our size specification. They are packaged by us in sets of 8 bolts & washers. They may be used as "torque converter" bolts but that's not how we specify & buy from ARP.

Demps · 09-24-2014

My LLs: Be sure to clean the PP & flywheel contact surfaces with brake cleaner. Light grease on trans shaft where disk slides. Torque sequence and gradually tighten as you go is important. Ball stud in, rotate bell housing ~60 deg, catch throw-out collar, rotate bell housing in place (alignment dowels on side), tighten stud to spec. Light grease on fork contact and slave-to-fork pivot. Depress clutch pedal for trans last ~1inch of closure. Put trans boot fully around tunnel--drivers side sporty--loosen side panel inside plus work tab under car before c-beam tight (trans full up).

Cryptic but it'll make sense.

Ted

c4koh · 09-24-2014

Demps - not cryptic at all. I've been obsessing about the clutch, transmission and flywheel for the last week ... kind of on my mind until all is done! I already have brake cleaner ready for the cleaning! All good.

@Jerry - other folks recommend the ARP by part number, which you can see (as example) here http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-230-7303/ from summit, which are certainly the same spec, but here classed as torque converter bolts... I guess they could be called whatever they want!

Recommendation to all, though - the 230-7303 ARP set itself being $12-$15 for the set at regular places, and being 3 in that set, of course means 3 packs would be needed... therefore Jerry's set - http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root...roducts_id=877 make much more sense... better value, and without the one spare bolt!

WVZR-1 · 09-25-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by A26B

The original bolts for the Dual Mass Flywheel can be re-used for the same application, BUT not with the Fidanza alum flywheel, they are too long.

I don't know anything about the ARP "torque converter" set of ARP bolts. We buy our ARP flywheel bolts in bulk from ARP, as per our size specification. They are packaged by us in sets of 8 bolts & washers. They may be used as "torque converter" bolts but that's not how we specify & buy from ARP.

Jerry,

Is there a shoulder on your flywheel bolts? I don't recall that being mentioned in the previous thread.

Paul Workman · 09-25-2014

IIRC, when I installed my Fidanza, the ARP PP bolts (long) came with a thread tap in the kit, specifically to provide more purchase into the aluminum FW.

I DID use RED Locktite on the 8 FW bolts, and I DID tap the Fidanza for the slightly longer ARP bolts, and I did put blue Locktite on the pressure plate bolts before torquing them down. That was 5 years ago, and so far so good.

Anywayz... relatively (if not actually longer) deeper purchase of the PP bolts in the aluminum Fidanza was in harmony with my sense of "good engineering practice". YMMV.

Paul

A26B · 09-25-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVZR-1

Jerry,

Is there a shoulder on your flywheel bolts? I don't recall that being mentioned in the previous thread.

5ABI VT · 09-25-2014

Great thread. Should be starting mine in the next few days finally. All the fork and ball stud stuff worries me I've never fiddled with a clutch before but it's never too late to learn !

I did write Down somewhere the torque specs maybe you already know them not sure.

5ABI VT · 09-25-2014

I took a few pics earlier here's the bolts cc included for the stg2.

5ABI VT · 09-25-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by A26B

Im assuming these replace the gold bolts I posted above ? I don't even know which bolts are for pp or flywheel but the gold ones had washers too. I think I need to order a set for peace of mind!

09-24-2014	#1
c4koh Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fishkill, NY Posts: 87	Clutch & Flywheel Replacement All, Per my other thread (clutch disk disintegration), I'm half-way through the replacement... being, I removed everything and just received from Carolina Clutch a new lightweight aluminum Fidanza flywheel, and Stage 2 kit. There is not too much written up in the "Solutions" on clutch / flywheel replacement, so I'm going to summarize my notes (I take notes on every task, and also photos, which I then go through backwards upon re-installation... I'll write them up and share). Since I've researched many notes, some replies from folks who have very good experience leave a lot of detail out, and so to help people like me, who may not have the same level of experience, but certainly want to try it - happy to encourage it! So far, two dilemmas presented themselves, which extensive searching didn't clarify one way or another: 1. re-use of old existing flywheel bolts. I got a replacement set in the clutch kit from Carolina Clutch, but also got from Jerry's Gaskets the ARP "torque converter" set. I could not ascertain if the original bolts should be re-used: I could see no information that they were, indeed, torque to yield so I think they could. However, they are 2 inches long and the different thickness of the single mass flywheel v. the original dual mass flywheel, from what I could gather, confirms need for new, shorter bolts. I'm traveling at the moment, but will easily confirm this when I get back. 2. use of red loctite on the flywheel bolts and pressure plate. In the "solutions" section, Red Loctite is recommended for the FW and PP bolts. And I've hunted high and low on the internet, and it seems folks use red, use blue, or use nothing... as long as they're torqued correctly, it seems all good. Now some folks did have their FW bolts working their way loose, but judging by the post, these may not have been fully torqued and/or the engine was being revved very high (9000+ RPM). So in conclusion, I think that you could get away without red loctiting them, and the blue is a sort of useful option compared to nothing in keeping them snug. But... even if you could get away with it, I've decided to red loctite them. My figuring being it certainly can't hurt, but more since the flywheel and pressure plate bolts are very easy to get to, they can be heat-torched out when I replace... so I decided for it. And one question, which Tom @ CC confirmed, which was "which way around does the [Stage 2] clutch disk go" - answer is the raised spring cage (i.e. where the spring cage extends out of the main plate, and there is the funnel spline tapering out around an inch... the other side of the plate being completely flat)... the flat side should go against the pressure plate, and the raised spring cage and spline snout should poke into the flywheel... If I understood it correctly, again, I'm traveling so will check when back... but believe so. Would anyone have any gotchas for putting it all back together? Any other advice? Will write up my removal and re-installation once complete. By the way, on a scale of 1-10, getting everything out was a 7. Liquid Wrench used on all bolts, which I do as a matter of course just in case (not sure if every bolt needed it, but since the spray takes 1 second, I do it out of habit). Really not too bad, and the C-Beam plates which I was worried about were no problem at all - just lock a spare wrench above to stop it spinning, and the bolts came right off. Car is jacked up on 21" "SUV" stands, which works well enough, and with just me (no help!) all was doable... trickiest part was maneuvering the transmission on my makeshift transmission plate (2" x 8" x 1 foot slab of wood with a small 1.5" detent drilled to rest the transmission oil drain plug), placed on a regular jack... I've since got a better transmission jack for that, but perfectly doable by one person. The only pain was the clutch bell housing bolts, because of their positioning, and the catalyst heat shields bolts (IIRC two small 10mm bolts). Last edited by c4koh; 09-24-2014 at 09:14 PM.

09-24-2014	#3
Demps Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Niceville Posts: 997	Re: Clutch & Flywheel Replacement My LLs: Be sure to clean the PP & flywheel contact surfaces with brake cleaner. Light grease on trans shaft where disk slides. Torque sequence and gradually tighten as you go is important. Ball stud in, rotate bell housing ~60 deg, catch throw-out collar, rotate bell housing in place (alignment dowels on side), tighten stud to spec. Light grease on fork contact and slave-to-fork pivot. Depress clutch pedal for trans last ~1inch of closure. Put trans boot fully around tunnel--drivers side sporty--loosen side panel inside plus work tab under car before c-beam tight (trans full up). Cryptic but it'll make sense. Ted

09-24-2014	#4
c4koh Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fishkill, NY Posts: 87	Re: Clutch & Flywheel Replacement Demps - not cryptic at all. I've been obsessing about the clutch, transmission and flywheel for the last week ... kind of on my mind until all is done! I already have brake cleaner ready for the cleaning! All good. @Jerry - other folks recommend the ARP by part number, which you can see (as example) here http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-230-7303/ from summit, which are certainly the same spec, but here classed as torque converter bolts... I guess they could be called whatever they want! Recommendation to all, though - the 230-7303 ARP set itself being $12-$15 for the set at regular places, and being 3 in that set, of course means 3 packs would be needed... therefore Jerry's set - http://jerrysgaskets.com/store2/root...roducts_id=877 make much more sense... better value, and without the one spare bolt!

09-25-2014	#6
Paul Workman Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Squires (near Ava MO in the Mark Twain N'tl Forest) - Missouri Posts: 6,493	Re: Clutch & Flywheel Replacement IIRC, when I installed my Fidanza, the ARP PP bolts (long) came with a thread tap in the kit, specifically to provide more purchase into the aluminum FW. I DID use RED Locktite on the 8 FW bolts, and I DID tap the Fidanza for the slightly longer ARP bolts, and I did put blue Locktite on the pressure plate bolts before torquing them down. That was 5 years ago, and so far so good. Anywayz... relatively (if not actually longer) deeper purchase of the PP bolts in the aluminum Fidanza was in harmony with my sense of "good engineering practice". YMMV. Paul __________________ Good carz, good food, good friendz = the best of timez! 90 #1202 "FBI" top end ported & relieved Cam timing by "Pete the Greek" Sans secondaries Chip & dyno tuning by Haibeck Automotive SW headers, X-pipe, MF muffs Former Secretary, ZR-1 Net Registry Last edited by Paul Workman; 09-25-2014 at 12:53 PM.

09-25-2014	#8
5ABI VT Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 782	Re: Clutch & Flywheel Replacement Great thread. Should be starting mine in the next few days finally. All the fork and ball stud stuff worries me I've never fiddled with a clutch before but it's never too late to learn ! I did write Down somewhere the torque specs maybe you already know them not sure.