I Think I Want a C4 ZR-1

[RichieDMD]

So, I'm thinking about venturing into the world of Corvette's for the first time...but there are a lot of unknowns for me so I thought I would ask some questions and try and better understand these cars.

Full disclosure, I'm a lifelong Camaro guy. I have always had a Camaro as my daily driver (a 1996 3.8L through high school/college followed by a 2002 SS 35th Anniversary LS1 M6 for the last 12 years). My dream car was and is a 1969 Camaro. I bought one in 2003 right out of high school and owned it until last year. I worked on it and did my best to take care of it...but with college, grad school, career, wife, kids, ect. the money wasn't there to do what I wanted with it and the car just sat. I decided I should sell it and get something a little more modern and reliable for a weekend car. My kids wanted to take it to local car shows and I just felt that with little kids...something easier to manage was a better option. So, I sold the '69 (and I plan to get another someday) and bought a car off the "list" of cars I had always wanted.

So, I bought, you guessed it...a Camaro. I bought a 1993 Camaro Indy 500 Pace Car and I really liked it...at first. I love how it looks and I love the attention I get (and the kids love it too)...but I don't love driving it. I quickly realized that because it was the same generation as my daily driver (a 2002 LS1 car) that it felt very much the same...except it was slower, an automatic (like all the pace cars), and had a far worse ride and feel. There was nothing "new" about driving it for me...it was basically just a worse more boring version of the car I drive every day. As a result, I don't drive it very often. After one year of ownership...I'm ready for something else.

So, I have been giving that "something else" a lot of thought. I still want something more modern (so not a vintage carbureted car) that is gonna be simpler to maintain as I have a lot on my plate right now. I thought maybe an early Viper...but I've never been a Dodge guy. I love 1990s cars since I was a kid back then and I keep going back to the C4 ZR-1. I remember them as a kid...they were American Supercars. The more I look at them now, the more I like the look. They have aged well (at least in my opinion)...and the price is so reasonable for them. They are a steal.

Now, I have never owned a Corvette. But the more I think about them, the more I think a C4 ZR-1 is exactly the right "next car" for me to get...to replace the Pace Car Camaro. I love the history and the story behind the Lotus designed motor, I like the uniqueness of the car (I always want something a little "different" even if its subtle)...and I think that the C4 ZR-1 fits that.

I guess what I am looking for is just good general references. Build numbers, options, ect. I want to really learn about these cars. My guess is I will keep the Pace Car through this summer and then look to sell it. That also gives me time to save a little cash because the ZR-1 is a bit more expensive. What quirks do they have? What issues should I watch out for? Is there major differences in the different years? Any advice for someone who wants to dive into this car with no Corvette experience. I'm really just out to learn about the car right now so when the time is right I can make an informed decision.



Thanks.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

As with all collector cars, buying the best that you can afford within the budget you set is a good idea.
The better the car is so start with, the likelihood that you will be pleased with it increases.
90's are the most plentiful, and because of that, all else equal, will save you money without giving anything up.
Buy a color that you love, as it needs to be the dream car you see in your dreams.
Get help from a knowledgeable owner in your area, or actually near the car you are considering.
Better to have their years of experience working for you rather than trying to instantly learn everything.
Start your search on the ZR-1 net Registry Forum.
Members cars are typically much better maintained, and most members have no interest in selling a problem child without either fixing it or disclosing what needs attention.
ASK FOR HELP HERE!!!
Best of luck!!!
The search is always fun!!!!

Marty

[dredgeguy]

If you want to dive in, join us in Bowling Green May 13-16 for the C4 Gathering. Many members of the ZR-1 Net Registry will be there with our cars. Best to drive different years and with different mods to give you the full picture. Next would be at Corvettes at Carlisle in August at Carlisle, PA. Not close to you but worth the flight. The group of people at the ZR-1 Net Registry are the main reason I love my car....get the car and get lifelong friends.

[RichieDMD]

Originally Posted by DRM500RUBYZR-1

As with all collector cars, buying the best that you can afford within the budget you set is a good idea.
The better the car is so start with, the likelihood that you will be pleased with it increases.
90's are the most plentiful, and because of that, all else equal, will save you money without giving anything up.
Buy a color that you love, as it needs to be the dream car you see in your dreams.
Get help from a knowledgeable owner in your area, or actually near the car you are considering.
Better to have their years of experience working for you rather than trying to instantly learn everything.
Start your search on the ZR-1 net Registry Forum.
Members cars are typically much better maintained, and most members have no interest in selling a problem child without either fixing it or disclosing what needs attention.
ASK FOR HELP HERE!!!
Best of luck!!!
The search is always fun!!!!

Marty

Thanks for the info! I figured that the 1990s would be the least expensive as they made more of them. Were there any issues with the 1990 cars to watch out for...that were fixed as a few years of production went by?



I know that in 1993 they increased the performance slightly...but were any actual major changes made?


Part of me wants to look for a 1990 because that was the first year...the first true American Supercar. Then again, a later one has more power (slightly) and I assume some upgrades and improvements.


My interest is a mostly original car. Color...I know I'm going to want either red or back...probably red.


Where they all 6-speeds (which is what I want) or will I have to avoid some automatics? Also, I know they didn't make convertibles but I have seen some with the Targa Top. Where they all Targa top's or were some hard tops?

[RichieDMD]

Originally Posted by HAWAIIZR-1

What Dredgeguy said too! Attachment 11343

By the way, a Member here (ITLGO2) Keith is giving away his Black 90 with Haibeck 500 package for $23K if you don’t mind black. His car is modified with all the stuff we already love for show and go. He must have more than double his asking price in the car. His LT5 is highly polished with diapers like chrome. You can see photos and videos on Registry Facebook. It also has one of a kind Cragar Thruster old school style wheels. Check it out!! [emoji1303]🤙🏼


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry

I wish I was ready to make the move. I need to sell my Pace Car first and save some additional cash. I'm probably a year away...right now I need to learn about the cars. I'm going to take the Pace Car to the local shows this summer then sell it.

[WARP TEN]

Originally Posted by RichieDMD

Thanks for the info! I figured that the 1990s would be the least expensive as they made more of them. Were there any issues with the 1990 cars to watch out for...that were fixed as a few years of production went by?



I know that in 1993 they increased the performance slightly...but were any actual major changes made?


Part of me wants to look for a 1990 because that was the first year...the first true American Supercar. Then again, a later one has more power (slightly) and I assume some upgrades and improvements.


My interest is a mostly original car. Color...I know I'm going to want either red or back...probably red.


Where they all 6-speeds (which is what I want) or will I have to avoid some automatics? Also, I know they didn't make convertibles but I have seen some with the Targa Top. Where they all Targa top's or were some hard tops?

Hi Richie--

I no longer have a ZR-1 but owned two and miss them to this day. Yes they were all 6 speed manuals, the early cars with a somewhat awkward lift ring reverse lockout, the 94 and 95s with just a push detent. A few cars have been converted to automatics. All were Targa top coupes; some came with just one top and some with two, a painted one and a transparent one. My '93 ZR-1 had one top, painted. The '95 came with two tops and I never once put the second one on. While some sellers hype a two top car, I personally would not worry about one with only one top. When I ordered my new 2016 Z06 coupe I specified only one top.

You will have your own preferences, but I will relate my approach to my ZR-1 hunts. In 1993 I first decided I wanted a ZR-1 for all the same reasons you have mentioned. First I joined the ZR-1 Registry, essentially a predecessor to the ZR-1 Net Registry, to gather information. You are correct that most (about 80%) of the ZR-1s were made in 1990 and 1991 and as a result you may or may not get a better price on one than later cars. Depends on condition, mileage and other factors. You can find a fine early car and will be very happy with it. Do not worry to much about higher mileage cars; worry more about how well the car has been cared for over its lifetime. The '90s had a couple of issues that are repairable and should not be a deterrent to a purchase at the right price. Fuel injectors come to mind; also '90s did not have valve stem seals. Probably '95% of all ZR-1 issues are simply regular C 4 issues; the others relate to the engine.

While there are many great early cars out there, I personally, I decided that I wanted only a 1993 to 1995 car for a couple of reasons. First, they had a bit more horsepower (405 vs. 375) than the earlier cars but many will argue that the performance was about the same and in any case if you port the engines as many have done that difference is moot anyway. Second, I figured that the later cars, like most autos, will have had any early engineering or production issues pretty well worked out towards the end of the model run. Third, I liked the idea of the rarity. In 1993,4 and 5 only 448 were made each year, about 2% of total Corvette production for those years. That has not translated into any material price difference, maybe a few thousand dollars, but it was a factor for me. (Note that when I bought my '93 in October of 1994 I did not know that they would end in 1995, but I did when I bought my 1995 in 2012.)

I echo the sentiments of others in that you should decide on what you want in a ZR-1 then stick to that goal. It took me about 6 months to find and buy my Quasar Blue 1993, and almost a year to find the Polo Green/Beige 1995 that I purchased in 2012. I was pleased with the results of those somewhat extended searches. The 1993 was only 6 months old when I bought it, essentially just a used car, but I felt I got an appropriate deal on it. On the 1995, I arguably paid a bit too much for the car but it was exactly what I wanted. It will be your call on that.

While you are looking for a stock car, don't be put off by some modifications if they have been done by known and competent people. I fairly quickly modified both the '93 and the '95 for a few things that wanted and what you will find are fairly common modifications on many cars. They included a Corsa exhaust, a (Hurst) short shifter, a 4.10:1 rear gear set (stock is 3.45), and a few others. I eventually added headers to the '93 and only on the '95 did I have serious engine work done to bring the car up to about 510 HP. This is actually a disease, and it is quite contagious, so watch out. All of my work was done by Marc Haibeck, who you will come to know as one of the true experts on ZR-1s in the world today.

When I first decided I wanted a ZR-1 in 1993, one of the first things I did was travel to the Bloomington Gold get together to meet with ZR-1 owners and to see the cars. Similarly, others have suggested to you attend the annual Gathering in Bowling Green KY. I heartily second that suggestion if you can swing it. May 13-16. Fly in, rent a car and join the fun. You will find this group to be very friendly, knowledgeable and helpful to someone like you seeking to join the madness. You will learn more about ZR-1s in those three or four days than you would otherwise in a couple of years on your own. If you can't make it this year, plan on being there next year for sure.

Good luck with your search-- I hope you come up with a ZR-1 that fits your needs soon.--Bob

[RichieDMD]

Originally Posted by WARP TEN

Hi Richie--

I no longer have a ZR-1 but owned two and miss them to this day. Yes they were all 6 speed manuals, the early cars with a somewhat awkward lift ring reverse lockout, the 94 and 95s with just a push detent. A few cars have been converted to automatics. All were Targa top coupes; some came with just one top and some with two, a painted one and a transparent one. My '93 ZR-1 had one top, painted. The '95 came with two tops and I never once put the second one on. While some sellers hype a two top car, I personally would not worry about one with only one top. When I ordered my new 2016 Z06 coupe I specified only one top.

You will have your own preferences, but I will relate my approach to my ZR-1 hunts. In 1993 I first decided I wanted a ZR-1 for all the same reasons you have mentioned. First I joined the ZR-1 Registry, essentially a predecessor to the ZR-1 Net Registry, to gather information. You are correct that most (about 80%) of the ZR-1s were made in 1990 and 1991 and as a result you may or may not get a better price on one than later cars. Depends on condition, mileage and other factors. You can find a fine early car and will be very happy with it. Do not worry to much about higher mileage cars; worry more about how well the car has been cared for over its lifetime. The '90s had a couple of issues that are repairable and should not be a deterrent to a purchase at the right price. Fuel injectors come to mind; also '90s did not have valve stem seals. Probably '95% of all ZR-1 issues are simply regular C 4 issues; the others relate to the engine.

While there are many great early cars out there, I personally, I decided that I wanted only a 1993 to 1995 car for a couple of reasons. First, they had a bit more horsepower (405 vs. 375) than the earlier cars but many will argue that the performance was about the same and in any case if you port the engines as many have done that difference is moot anyway. Second, I figured that the later cars, like most autos, will have had any early engineering or production issues pretty well worked out towards the end of the model run. Third, I liked the idea of the rarity. In 1993,4 and 5 only 448 were made each year, about 2% of total Corvette production for those years. That has not translated into any material price difference, maybe a few thousand dollars, but it was a factor for me. (Note that when I bought my '93 in October of 1994 I did not know that they would end in 1995, but I did when I bought my 1995 in 2012.)

I echo the sentiments of others in that you should decide on what you want in a ZR-1 then stick to that goal. It took me about 6 months to find and buy my Quasar Blue 1993, and almost a year to find the Polo Green/Beige 1995 that I purchased in 2012. I was pleased with the results of those somewhat extended searches. The 1993 was only 6 months old when I bought it, essentially just a used car, but I felt I got an appropriate deal on it. On the 1995, I arguably paid a bit too much for the car but it was exactly what I wanted. It will be your call on that.

While you are looking for a stock car, don't be put off by some modifications if they have been done by known and competent people. I fairly quickly modified both the '93 and the '95 for a few things that wanted and what you will find are fairly common modifications on many cars. They included a Corsa exhaust, a (Hurst) short shifter, a 4.10:1 rear gear set (stock is 3.45), and a few others. I eventually added headers to the '93 and only on the '95 did I have serious engine work done to bring the car up to about 510 HP. This is actually a disease, and it is quite contagious, so watch out. All of my work was done by Marc Haibeck, who you will come to know as one of the true experts on ZR-1s in the world today.

When I first decided I wanted a ZR-1 in 1993, one of the first things I did was travel to the Bloomington Gold get together to meet with ZR-1 owners and to see the cars. Similarly, others have suggested to you attend the annual Gathering in Bowling Green KY. I heartily second that suggestion if you can swing it. May 13-16. Fly in, rent a car and join the fun. You will find this group to be very friendly, knowledgeable and helpful to someone like you seeking to join the madness. You will learn more about ZR-1s in those three or four days than you would otherwise in a couple of years on your own. If you can't make it this year, plan on being there next year for sure.

Good luck with your search-- I hope you come up with a ZR-1 that fits your needs soon.--Bob

Bob,


Thanks for the great post with great info. I really appreciate it.


I really am trying to learn as much as I can about these cars and figure out exactly what I want. I do think I want a car that is either 1990 or 1993. I don't want a newer one than that. As odd as it sounds, the reason for this is I don't want a passenger air bag. My wife has been a little against this idea of selling the Camaro and buying one of these in part because our young kids (3 and 5) won't be able to enjoy it with me as much. I can put car seats in the back of the Camaro...that's not an option in the ZR-1 and the kids love the cars. Just this morning, I found this...and I think right now both are in the garage doing the same thing:




Oregon law allows a car seat in the front as long as there is no issue with air bags. A 1993 or older car would make this more doable and let the kids (one at a time) still ride in the car every once in a while.


I really like 1990 as it was the first release...the first true American Super Car. However, 1993 has the advantage of a few years of experience for GM to get the car ironed out and, they built less (so they are rarer), and they have the upgraded multi-port injection with more power. So, both have benefits.



I really think Red is what I want...so in 1990 that is Bright Red and 1993 its Torch Red. Is there much difference in the colors? I know in 1990 1565 were made in Red and in 1993 only 59 were. So, the 1990 will be a lot easier to find. I wonder what the cost difference between an otherwise similar red 1990 and 1993 would be.


As far as originality...I'm OK with some mods. Just nothing crazy. Little improvements and upgrades are great. I don't want anything that has been heavily altered or hot rodded. I also have to worry about Oregon emissions standards so there's that too.

[Young1]

These cars are a blast and will get you 20 over tickets in 3.45 seconds, even stock like mine. Yesterday a friend of mine was impressed when I took it through 5.5k rpm. I did not tell him it yet had more. Later it sang at 7k rpm through 3 gears and he went holy crap! Be cautious of gorgeous cars with super low miles stored a long time. Usually a thousand dollars of parts excluding labor and tires are needed to get them going. That is if they do not have rodent damage to interior and wiring. Z’s well maintained and regularly driven with spirit in which everything works are your best bet for reliability. Do your research on this site and keep in touch.

[We Gone]

Good luck if you find one to far to look at just post up, many if not all the members of this site would be happy to inspect for you.

[RichieDMD]

Thanks for all the info so far. It's only my first day on this site and already I have learned a ton.


A couple questions.



I've been reading other posts here...just randomly trying to soak up information and I saw one from a guy who had purchased a 1990 ZR-1. He made a point to mention the previous owner had preferred the 1994 wheels so it had those on it. That made me wonder...how many different wheel styles did the ZR-1 come with during its 6-year run? I believe I read the ZR-1 had a wider tire than the standard Corvette...so I assume they had their own specific wheels. Where they the same design (aesthetically) as the standard Corvette of their respective year?


Also, it looks like A/C was standard on all cars except for the 1990s where it was an option. Are non-A/C 1990 cars rare? I know the A/C system does draw some HP but I would imagine that most who bought these cars new (with their 2x sticker price) would opt for A/C. Is it safe to assume that most cars with functional A/C systems would have been converted over to r134a by now?