Fluidyne radiator question - Page 4 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

A26B · 07-24-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynomite

Excellent point of discussion

.........It seems to me.......(I am having a difficult time finding the LT5 Water Pump Flow characteristics) that all I would have to do to test your theory is rev the engine up at a stop light. I will test that out today and report back

When I installed my Ron Davis Radiator, I contacted them for empirical capacity of the radiator. They could provide thermal exchange plots, but had never tested the radiator for coolant flow capacity in terms of gpm, to see just how much the radiator could flow in a mock cooling system, before inlet pressure exceeded the working pressure of the radiator.

I am interested in this factor, suspecting that the LT5 coolant bypass system may not be necessary with the Ron Davis radiator and that the thermostat, in stock configuration may be the limiting factor in total radiator flow capacity.

5ABI VT · 07-24-2014

Our temps do vary this year being very cool so far but it snot uncommon to get over 90 during june-august. I will admit however most times I drove the car it was late at night from 1-5 am. Finding clear spaces for 4th gear datalogs to 8000 rpm weren't exactly easy during the day

I am not familiar with the coolant system on the LT5 ill need to read up on that bypass valve. I also wanted to look into an electric setup. Does anyone offer one? Im a big fan of it having tried a normal mezziere then an HD on the ltx build. Waterpumps do have to try and do it all and I believe that's quite a compromise. At low rpm the engine is generating the least amount of heat while at max rpm the pump can cavitate and its generating much more heat. I believe the high rpm would be a priority for engineers for obvious reasons. I used to cruise in 2nd or 3rd at high rpms and oil temps were always a concern in my car but the coolant was always rock steady.

I had ideas of using the gen 7 n20 controllers in the ecm to setup the mezziere to spin slower below 3500 and get more juice above that. ideas ideas

Hog · 07-24-2014

[QUOTE=A26B;208147]Do you think maybe July temps in Toronto Lo58 to Hi78F, hottest month of the year might have something to do with that? Especially compared to Phoenix, AZ.

[QUOTE]
Average high temps temps are 26°C/78°F for Toronto and 41ºC/106ºF for Arizona.
Factor in the humidex and up here is can feel just as hot as Arizona. AT least in ARizona your sweat can evaporate. Up here it cant with all the humidity.
This year though, it has been a VERY cool Summer, with only 1 single day at 30ºC and above.
Phoenix only gets 1 day per year below the freezing point.

That being said, I dont think humidity affects car cooling like it affects human beings cooling as the car doesnt use evaporative cooling while humans do. So the less cooling capacity should be required in Toronto vs Phoenix.

Also, there is more to cooling than core number. A single core rad can cool better than a 2 core rad. It all depends on the design/construction.

GOLDCYLON · 07-24-2014

It was 115 yesterday. Car Displayed 123 outside and it cooled down to 119 on the 101 freeway after leaving I-17 so much for averages Eh lol ?

More rows in your radiator buy you time as its a function of greater capacity only.

When I had my 4 row built the rad shop gave me a simplistic example. You take a one row he called it for argument's sake a glass of water on a hotplate vs a gallon of water on the same hot plate or a 4 row. You are buying time until the car can start moving again and cool down.

WVZR-1 · 07-25-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynomite

I will test that out next few days and report back

Oh...and I will run that experiment with a Ron Davis Radiator as well as Stock Radiator at 100 deg ambient temperatures (Exactly 100 deg F here Fri through next Thur so plenty time to run experiments)

I would think that to compare the radiator effectiveness all one would need to do is at a consistent RPM and at operating temperature just do a temperature check of temperature "IN" at the radiator and "OUT" at the radiator with an IR Handheld. It would be very easy to do this with "fan ON" and "fan OFF" also.

WVZR-1 · 07-25-2014

The discussion I thought was radiator efficiency but maybe I overlooked something, now your claiming that you can do comparable testing using different cars with different CTS sensors, dash senders and such. Bypassed cooling modifications etc included.

The radiator doesn't care about all of that, it's in and then out! If the radiator is compared at the same comparable RPM with engine at operating temperature (which the IN we would assume to be comparable) then the OUT is the results. There's nothing I believe that could dispute the efficiency. Now if the IN is not comparable then you've only determined there's a cooling system situation maybe with one or the other cars NOT the radiator.

The efficiency of the radiator is the result of construction, the fact that it's more or multiple rows of tubes is not the defining performance advantage. If a radiator has multiple tubes but has no provisions in the tubes to control the flow then it's likely NOT giving the cooling fins the time required to transfer the heat to air.

Does moving air effect efficiency? Certainly, but if one radiator is more efficient at a dead stop (RED LIGHT) then it could be maybe "wrongfully" assumed that it might be more efficient with the moving air.

Do your "road test" then bring them all to a stop on any surface of your choosing and then give them the IR hand held test with AC still maxed.

Blue Flame Restorations · 07-25-2014

Everyone, this forum is a place to exchange, learn and enjoy the ZR-1 and the Brotherhood.

Time to relax and enjoy.

WVZR-1 · 07-25-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Flame Restorations

Everyone, this forum is a place to exchange, learn and enjoy the ZR-1 and the Brotherhood.

Time to relax and enjoy.

I don't have a problem with any of that Brett but a post that I had commented on I guess was "deleted" by Cliff, my remark was directly to the post that he's since deleted. I was "relaxed" and was "enjoying" - I was also exchanging and learning!

GOLDCYLON · 07-25-2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Flame Restorations

Everyone, this forum is a place to exchange, learn and enjoy the ZR-1 and the Brotherhood.

Time to relax and enjoy.

X2 I think you "enjoy" it too much WVZR1. Share ideas only

Blue Flame Restorations · 07-25-2014

Dave, you have a lot of good information and I enjoy reading your posts, except where the !!!!! is used out of context. I believe that causes others to mis-read your information in the manner you may intend.

Not everyone will agree. That's ok. We all need to keep things civil and we may just learn something as part of the healthy discussion.

07-24-2014	#32
5ABI VT Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Toronto Posts: 782	Re: Fluidyne radiator question Our temps do vary this year being very cool so far but it snot uncommon to get over 90 during june-august. I will admit however most times I drove the car it was late at night from 1-5 am. Finding clear spaces for 4th gear datalogs to 8000 rpm weren't exactly easy during the day I am not familiar with the coolant system on the LT5 ill need to read up on that bypass valve. I also wanted to look into an electric setup. Does anyone offer one? Im a big fan of it having tried a normal mezziere then an HD on the ltx build. Waterpumps do have to try and do it all and I believe that's quite a compromise. At low rpm the engine is generating the least amount of heat while at max rpm the pump can cavitate and its generating much more heat. I believe the high rpm would be a priority for engineers for obvious reasons. I used to cruise in 2nd or 3rd at high rpms and oil temps were always a concern in my car but the coolant was always rock steady. I had ideas of using the gen 7 n20 controllers in the ecm to setup the mezziere to spin slower below 3500 and get more juice above that. ideas ideas

07-24-2014	#33
Hog Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,275	Re: Fluidyne radiator question [QUOTE=A26B;208147]Do you think maybe July temps in Toronto Lo58 to Hi78F, hottest month of the year might have something to do with that? Especially compared to Phoenix, AZ. [QUOTE] Average high temps temps are 26°C/78°F for Toronto and 41ºC/106ºF for Arizona. Factor in the humidex and up here is can feel just as hot as Arizona. AT least in ARizona your sweat can evaporate. Up here it cant with all the humidity. This year though, it has been a VERY cool Summer, with only 1 single day at 30ºC and above. Phoenix only gets 1 day per year below the freezing point. That being said, I dont think humidity affects car cooling like it affects human beings cooling as the car doesnt use evaporative cooling while humans do. So the less cooling capacity should be required in Toronto vs Phoenix. Also, there is more to cooling than core number. A single core rad can cool better than a 2 core rad. It all depends on the design/construction. __________________ peace Paul ZR-1 Net Registry Member #1494 Last edited by Hog; 07-24-2014 at 02:20 PM.

07-24-2014	#34
GOLDCYLON Join Date: May 2007 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 9,153	Re: Fluidyne radiator question It was 115 yesterday. Car Displayed 123 outside and it cooled down to 119 on the 101 freeway after leaving I-17 so much for averages Eh lol ? More rows in your radiator buy you time as its a function of greater capacity only. When I had my 4 row built the rad shop gave me a simplistic example. You take a one row he called it for argument's sake a glass of water on a hotplate vs a gallon of water on the same hot plate or a 4 row. You are buying time until the car can start moving again and cool down. __________________ GOLDCYLON - 91 ZR-1 #2014 GOLDCYLON - 90 ZR-1 #2794, 4L60e (Formerly Schrade's) GOLDCYLON - 11 CTS-V Arizona State Director 91 WHITE/BLACK #2014. 380 P&P&PCed,Ported Heads, Jeal Long tubes, Corsa Exhaust/FIKSE FM-5s /LED TLs, LED Headlights, Front Wilwood 6 piston narrowlite calipers and rear Wilwood caliper street shop mod,CNCed Coolant Pipes,TPI Cvr,Filter cover,Stainless Bolts, DRM/DOM PROM /ZFDOC mod build #102,DRLs,BMAD with stainless Debris Screen,Coplan Air Blaster, Pioneer APP Radio 4,Brey-Krause HB,Sub Bar,Fire extinguisher seat mount,DRM Coilovers,LEDs everywhere,Compass mirror (orange),V1 DIC hidden display, Homelink sun visor, Carbon Fiber top x3 and APSIS Carbon Fiber interior, APSIS CF Steering Wheel/NAPA Leather, Banski trailing arms, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension) ZFDoc drive shaft safety loop, raptor shift light (orange),AO engineering louver front plate, Console seat cushion, 96CE seats with black custom Sheepskins, ss billet catch can,Viper remote entry/alarm,Cragar Rear Louvers,LED side louver lights, Dewitts Radiator with SPAL fans and a Woods 160 T-Stat 90 RED/BLACK #2794. 4L60e Automatic Stage V by RPM Transmission, TCI Dedicated TCM, OBX Stainless Headers, Corsa Exhaust, SAN Secondaries and Haibeck PROM, Exotic Muscle Coil overs, LED Interior Lights, LED Tail Lights, LED Headlights, 94 Sport seats with black custom Sheepskins , Cragar rear louvers, GS Front calipers, Banski Trailing arms, APSIS Carbon Fiber steering wheel, Front and Rear Baer Eradispeeds, DRLs, Guldstrand front suspension,urethane bushings from Prothane (total suspension), Dewitt's Raditor with Dual SPAL fans and a Haibeck 170 T-Stat 11 RED/GREY CTS-V Last edited by GOLDCYLON; 07-24-2014 at 03:32 PM.

07-25-2014	#36
WVZR-1 Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,889	Re: Fluidyne radiator question The discussion I thought was radiator efficiency but maybe I overlooked something, now your claiming that you can do comparable testing using different cars with different CTS sensors, dash senders and such. Bypassed cooling modifications etc included. The radiator doesn't care about all of that, it's in and then out! If the radiator is compared at the same comparable RPM with engine at operating temperature (which the IN we would assume to be comparable) then the OUT is the results. There's nothing I believe that could dispute the efficiency. Now if the IN is not comparable then you've only determined there's a cooling system situation maybe with one or the other cars NOT the radiator. The efficiency of the radiator is the result of construction, the fact that it's more or multiple rows of tubes is not the defining performance advantage. If a radiator has multiple tubes but has no provisions in the tubes to control the flow then it's likely NOT giving the cooling fins the time required to transfer the heat to air. Does moving air effect efficiency? Certainly, but if one radiator is more efficient at a dead stop (RED LIGHT) then it could be maybe "wrongfully" assumed that it might be more efficient with the moving air. Do your "road test" then bring them all to a stop on any surface of your choosing and then give them the IR hand held test with AC still maxed. Last edited by WVZR-1; 07-25-2014 at 10:41 AM.

07-25-2014	#37
Blue Flame Restorations Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pendleton, IN Posts: 3,904	Re: Fluidyne radiator question Everyone, this forum is a place to exchange, learn and enjoy the ZR-1 and the Brotherhood. Time to relax and enjoy. __________________ 1988 KOH Prototype EX5023 sold 1990 ZR-1 #444 Convertible 1990 ZR-1 Black #966 1991 ZR-1 Quazar Blue #296 1957 Duntov SS Project

07-25-2014	#40
Blue Flame Restorations Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Pendleton, IN Posts: 3,904	Re: Fluidyne radiator question Dave, you have a lot of good information and I enjoy reading your posts, except where the !!!!! is used out of context. I believe that causes others to mis-read your information in the manner you may intend. Not everyone will agree. That's ok. We all need to keep things civil and we may just learn something as part of the healthy discussion. __________________ 1988 KOH Prototype EX5023 sold 1990 ZR-1 #444 Convertible 1990 ZR-1 Black #966 1991 ZR-1 Quazar Blue #296 1957 Duntov SS Project Last edited by Blue Flame Restorations; 07-25-2014 at 11:52 AM.