Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit - Page 4 - ZR-1 Net Registry Forums

XfireZ51 · 06-11-2019

Following our discussion, I decided to ask the seller why his adapter needs to be different for the Z06 calipers when the mounting points are all the same.
Here’s hus response:

“
New message from: 1976ls1 (1,351Red Star)
The caliper is so big and the mounting surface is a little different so it does not work with that adapter bracket. I have modified the adapters to work with the ZO6 calibers but I'm not sure if I have any in stock right now. I'm at work now so can't check till I get home this evening.”

Ccmano · 06-12-2019

MSV.... what are your thoughts on how this fellow did his brakes using C7 Z07 bits. I suspect ZR1Assassin used a similar method.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-upgrade.html
H

msv · 06-12-2019

A number of issues with that.

As I had mentioned the hole spacing is 128mm vs. the 130mm on the C4, so yes, you can oval the holes in order to mount the caliper. But I wouldn't be doing it with a die grinder.

If you mount the C7 caliper directly to the upright, then it is going to end up 11mm further out radially than it's supposed to be, so it's not going to work. In this picture, you can see how much daylight there is between the caliper and the edge of the disc (the clearance between the area of the caliper that passes over the disc is supposed to be 4mm). I don't know how this gentleman has not figured this out yet. Maybe he's never tried to put pads in the caliper or put a wheel on it.

The most concerning part is how unsafe this could be.

Getting parts to physically mount to a car is one thing, but that doesn't mean they are correct for the application. The ABS system is designed around the piston area and fluid absorption parameters of the OEM brake system. Deviating from that can cause horrible consequences, in some cases, basically making it feel like you are on ice when the system intervenes. For this reason, braking upgrades need to take the original parameters into account in order to closely match the piston area and torque of the original configuration. The C4 front pistons are both 38mm. These calipers are 30mm/34mm/38mm, which is an area increase of 22%.

I design brake systems for a living, and frankly what most people do when they try to make up their own systems from various parts scares the crap out of me.

Ccmano · 06-12-2019

With regard to your statement regarding radial positioning he makes the following statement further down in the thread....

“The alignment picture wasn't with it shimmed and the bolts tight...it is now and it's centered where it needs to be both in plane on the rotor and radially.”

“I've got my 2019 GS next to it and can do a direct comparison between the two and I'm within an 1/8" of being in the same radial position on the rotors.”

H

msv · 06-12-2019

There is no way to shim the caliper radial position. The caliper is going to be too far out radially by 11mm. Unless the 88-90 upright positions the caliper differently (but I don't think it does). I've only measured the 91-96 upright.

As I mentioned before, the C7 caliper offset is 64mm. The C4 upright is 75mm, so if bolted up directly, it moves the caliper out 11mm radially.

XfireZ51 · 06-12-2019

has I recall on my 84 that I wanted to do an upgrade to the C5 calipers at the time.
Got an adapter but the issue was that the C5s used a 14mm bolt bore on the spindle while the 84 had a 12mm. And yes you could “bore” it out but that just left less material to handle the added stress from braking. Finally ended up replacing the spindle w 87+ for the correct bolt bore. Moral of the story is I, as msv has stated, would never compromise on the brakes integrity to get it to fit.

msv is stating that its off by nearly 1/2” while the post in CF suggests its off by 3mm not 11.

-=Jeff=- · 06-13-2019

I ultimately ended up with a Wilwood setup on the front of my car..

msv · 06-13-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by XfireZ51

msv is stating that its off by nearly 1/2” while the post in CF suggests its off by 3mm not 11.

I think that is likely in reference to the position of the disc, not in reference to the caliper. It doesn't seem like he has even tried to put pads into the caliper yet. The picture I included showed that the distance from the caliper to the outer edge of the disc is much higher than it should be, and that's not something that you can shim, unfortunately.

Ccmano · 06-13-2019

The bottom line on this very interesting discussion is that the is no reason the economic late model Brembo Camaro calipers could not be used besides the fact that no one makes an Adapter. Seems to me there would be a substantial market for these adapters in the greater C4 community given the lower pricing of the Camaro calipers.

I’m willing to buy a set and be a Guinea pig if someone (MSV?) could design and produce the adapter. Or at least produce a CAD drawing and I can have one produced. The only remaining question is do you use the Camaro rotors that give better wheel clearance but need the bore modified or do you use the C7Z51 rotors that are apparently a bolt on? Based on what I read here the adapter would be different depending on the rotor used?
H

XfireZ51 · 06-13-2019

Hans,

Not certain what the advantage of the Brembos are because from a price standpoint I see C6Z front takeoffs for about $400/pair. Are the Brembos somehow that much better for everyday use? The C6Z rotor is a direct fit albeit heavy and their offset reduces how far the tire sidewall protrudes past the front fenders.
Would have loved to put Brembos on. I think they are a better looking brake, but in the end, the price and installation differential made C6Z brakes my choice.
Be great to see how far u guys get w this.
What r u thinking for the rears?

06-11-2019	#31
XfireZ51 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chicagoland, IL Posts: 9,675	Re: Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit Following our discussion, I decided to ask the seller why his adapter needs to be different for the Z06 calipers when the mounting points are all the same. Here’s hus response: “ New message from: 1976ls1 (1,351Red Star) The caliper is so big and the mounting surface is a little different so it does not work with that adapter bracket. I have modified the adapters to work with the ZO6 calibers but I'm not sure if I have any in stock right now. I'm at work now so can't check till I get home this evening.” __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Former Membership Chairman Former ZR-1 Registry - BOD 1972 Corvette 4speed base Coupe SOLD long time ago 1984 Corvette Z-51/4+3 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Aqua/Gray #474 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Black Rose/Cognac #458 2014 Honda VFR Interceptor DX

06-12-2019	#32
Ccmano Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sparks, NV Posts: 2,856	Re: Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit MSV.... what are your thoughts on how this fellow did his brakes using C7 Z07 bits. I suspect ZR1Assassin used a similar method. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...e-upgrade.html H __________________ 90'ZR-1 #1461 Red/Black Ported Intake, Degreed Cams, OBX Headers & Exhaust, Fidanza FW, Secondary Delete, Custom tune, C6 GS Wheels. Sold 08 C6 Z51 Crystal Red Metallic Sold Vararam Intake, Tune, Sold 05 C6 Z51 Red/Black Sold 90'ZR-1 #1723 Black/Gray Sold but not forgotten 91' Z51 L98 White Vert. My First, you always remember your first. Sold. Last edited by Ccmano; 06-12-2019 at 08:44 PM.

06-12-2019	#33
msv Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: California Posts: 20	Re: Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit A number of issues with that. As I had mentioned the hole spacing is 128mm vs. the 130mm on the C4, so yes, you can oval the holes in order to mount the caliper. But I wouldn't be doing it with a die grinder. If you mount the C7 caliper directly to the upright, then it is going to end up 11mm further out radially than it's supposed to be, so it's not going to work. In this picture, you can see how much daylight there is between the caliper and the edge of the disc (the clearance between the area of the caliper that passes over the disc is supposed to be 4mm). I don't know how this gentleman has not figured this out yet. Maybe he's never tried to put pads in the caliper or put a wheel on it. The most concerning part is how unsafe this could be. Getting parts to physically mount to a car is one thing, but that doesn't mean they are correct for the application. The ABS system is designed around the piston area and fluid absorption parameters of the OEM brake system. Deviating from that can cause horrible consequences, in some cases, basically making it feel like you are on ice when the system intervenes. For this reason, braking upgrades need to take the original parameters into account in order to closely match the piston area and torque of the original configuration. The C4 front pistons are both 38mm. These calipers are 30mm/34mm/38mm, which is an area increase of 22%. I design brake systems for a living, and frankly what most people do when they try to make up their own systems from various parts scares the crap out of me.

06-12-2019	#34
Ccmano Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sparks, NV Posts: 2,856	Re: Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit With regard to your statement regarding radial positioning he makes the following statement further down in the thread.... “The alignment picture wasn't with it shimmed and the bolts tight...it is now and it's centered where it needs to be both in plane on the rotor and radially.” “I've got my 2019 GS next to it and can do a direct comparison between the two and I'm within an 1/8" of being in the same radial position on the rotors.” H __________________ 90'ZR-1 #1461 Red/Black Ported Intake, Degreed Cams, OBX Headers & Exhaust, Fidanza FW, Secondary Delete, Custom tune, C6 GS Wheels. Sold 08 C6 Z51 Crystal Red Metallic Sold Vararam Intake, Tune, Sold 05 C6 Z51 Red/Black Sold 90'ZR-1 #1723 Black/Gray Sold but not forgotten 91' Z51 L98 White Vert. My First, you always remember your first. Sold.

06-12-2019	#35
msv Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: California Posts: 20	Re: Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit There is no way to shim the caliper radial position. The caliper is going to be too far out radially by 11mm. Unless the 88-90 upright positions the caliper differently (but I don't think it does). I've only measured the 91-96 upright. As I mentioned before, the C7 caliper offset is 64mm. The C4 upright is 75mm, so if bolted up directly, it moves the caliper out 11mm radially.

06-12-2019	#36
XfireZ51 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chicagoland, IL Posts: 9,675	Re: Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit has I recall on my 84 that I wanted to do an upgrade to the C5 calipers at the time. Got an adapter but the issue was that the C5s used a 14mm bolt bore on the spindle while the 84 had a 12mm. And yes you could “bore” it out but that just left less material to handle the added stress from braking. Finally ended up replacing the spindle w 87+ for the correct bolt bore. Moral of the story is I, as msv has stated, would never compromise on the brakes integrity to get it to fit. msv is stating that its off by nearly 1/2” while the post in CF suggests its off by 3mm not 11. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Former Membership Chairman Former ZR-1 Registry - BOD 1972 Corvette 4speed base Coupe SOLD long time ago 1984 Corvette Z-51/4+3 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Aqua/Gray #474 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Black Rose/Cognac #458 2014 Honda VFR Interceptor DX Last edited by XfireZ51; 06-12-2019 at 11:28 PM.

06-13-2019	#37
-=Jeff=- Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 7,137	Re: Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit I ultimately ended up with a Wilwood setup on the front of my car.. __________________ 1990 Corvette ZR-1 #1051 Watson Headers (2" Primary) - 3" Magnaflow Bullet cats - LT4 Catback Late Model IH - Plenum Coilovers - 4.10s Custom Interior NCM Lifetime Member #978

06-13-2019	#39
Ccmano Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sparks, NV Posts: 2,856	Re: Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit The bottom line on this very interesting discussion is that the is no reason the economic late model Brembo Camaro calipers could not be used besides the fact that no one makes an Adapter. Seems to me there would be a substantial market for these adapters in the greater C4 community given the lower pricing of the Camaro calipers. I’m willing to buy a set and be a Guinea pig if someone (MSV?) could design and produce the adapter. Or at least produce a CAD drawing and I can have one produced. The only remaining question is do you use the Camaro rotors that give better wheel clearance but need the bore modified or do you use the C7Z51 rotors that are apparently a bolt on? Based on what I read here the adapter would be different depending on the rotor used? H __________________ 90'ZR-1 #1461 Red/Black Ported Intake, Degreed Cams, OBX Headers & Exhaust, Fidanza FW, Secondary Delete, Custom tune, C6 GS Wheels. Sold 08 C6 Z51 Crystal Red Metallic Sold Vararam Intake, Tune, Sold 05 C6 Z51 Red/Black Sold 90'ZR-1 #1723 Black/Gray Sold but not forgotten 91' Z51 L98 White Vert. My First, you always remember your first. Sold. Last edited by Ccmano; 06-13-2019 at 11:56 AM.

06-13-2019	#40
XfireZ51 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chicagoland, IL Posts: 9,675	Re: Camaro 4 Piston Brembo kit Hans, Not certain what the advantage of the Brembos are because from a price standpoint I see C6Z front takeoffs for about $400/pair. Are the Brembos somehow that much better for everyday use? The C6Z rotor is a direct fit albeit heavy and their offset reduces how far the tire sidewall protrudes past the front fenders. Would have loved to put Brembos on. I think they are a better looking brake, but in the end, the price and installation differential made C6Z brakes my choice. Be great to see how far u guys get w this. What r u thinking for the rears? __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Former Membership Chairman Former ZR-1 Registry - BOD 1972 Corvette 4speed base Coupe SOLD long time ago 1984 Corvette Z-51/4+3 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Aqua/Gray #474 SOLD 1992 Corvette ZR-1 Black Rose/Cognac #458 2014 Honda VFR Interceptor DX Last edited by XfireZ51; 06-13-2019 at 12:14 PM.