Started taking apart the bottom half [Archive]

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HAWAIIZR-1

10-11-2009, 03:19 PM

I sure do have a lot to learn and taking my time with this rebuild. If you notice anything wrong please chime in. I am simply sharing this info for the novice folks like me that have never worked on an LT5 and hopefully get input from the pros that might catch me doing something wrong or see something that is questionable. The way I figure, members posts have helped me get this far and I am sure there is someone worse off than me. If money was not object and I did not live in Hawaii, I would surely ship this motor off to a builder so I could sleep every night.

So even though I am with post recovery from surgery, I decided to try to do a little at a time so I can keep this project moving.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01469.jpg
Took off the oil pan and looking pretty clean to me. I gain more appreciation for the LT5 the more I take this thing apart and see what went into the development for its time. The OEM gasket was like new and I don't think this was gone into before so it says something about the quality of the factory gaskets to me. No sealants of any type and no leaks from the oil pan.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01470.jpg

Everything looks pretty clean but do see some of the fine metal powdery stuff that I heard is normal. At least no other pieces of metal.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01471.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01472.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01473.jpg

There sure are a lot of sharp edges on the block and not sure if that is the standard with supposedly high end engines that this was supposed to be.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01474.jpg

This is as far as I got and hope to continue a little be more today. I am trying to get the Kent-Moore J 38211 or replacement to pull the crankshaft sproket off and not sure if really needed. I have some other pullers, but that gear is not something I want to take a chance damaging. I have a standard 2 arm gear puller, but it does not seem to grab enough that I want to take a chance as seeing the illustration in the FSM looks like the way to go.

I'll post the connecting rod bearings and the main bearings as a follow on to this post.

bdw18_123

10-11-2009, 04:08 PM

Polo-1

10-11-2009, 10:37 PM

I am trying to get the Kent-Moore J 38211 or replacement to pull the crankshaft sproket off and not sure if really needed. I have some other pullers, but that gear is not something I want to take a chance damaging. I have a standard 2 arm gear puller, but it does not seem to grab enough that .

Thats what I use 2 jaw puller. Just put a worm gear clamp around the 2 jaws to hold tight. Make sure as you start to pull that the jaws are not spreading apart.

WB9MCW

10-11-2009, 10:49 PM

SharkPilot

10-11-2009, 10:55 PM

HAWAIIZR-1

10-11-2009, 11:24 PM

I would say the sharp edges are probably normal, as I think these engines were more or less hand built. Not like normal cars where machines pump out thousands of them.

I still need to drop the oil pan on my LT5. Money issues have slowed me way down on my ZR-1 project.

I keep looking as some parts that looking like they were chipped away with a hammer or chisel....had to do a double take. Yes, the money issues are surely slowing me down too and not sure how long it will take to get it back together. Everything is so freakin expensive...it is all the little things that are killing me.

HAWAIIZR-1

10-11-2009, 11:26 PM

Thats what I use 2 jaw puller. Just put a worm gear clamp around the 2 jaws to hold tight. Make sure as you start to pull that the jaws are not spreading apart.

Okay, thanks. It seemed like it would work when I mocked it up, but I figured I would check before I focked it up. I am trying to buy the some of the bottom half special tool, but no response yet from Bill K; not sure if anyone else has it for sale or not.

HAWAIIZR-1

10-11-2009, 11:34 PM

This is going to be a Kool project to watch you do Craig for the group all to see.

So sorry it had to be you with a low miles Z but it looks like Murphy liked your engine.

Now we will just do a little dance for you and ward off that Murphy for the resurrection project.

Bryan,

Thanks and in reality there might be nothing really wrong other than the cam timing was a bit off and the sheared off key on the crank for the torsional damper; still not sure how he heck that could have happened. My LT5 was built on a Monday or Friday was it? Since I had to pull it out to confirm the key, could have just fixed the timing issue and put it back. Had to check the bearings while I'm at it since the oil lab report showed high copper and lead, but still not convinced until I pull the caps off to check the bearings. Yes, I am a bit surprised with only 53K miles, but not sure of the history of this Z too. A warning to all those buying Ebay Zs.

Thanks for THE dance....I am going to need it.

HAWAIIZR-1

10-11-2009, 11:38 PM

I'm lurking and watching this with great interest. Hopefully it will be years before mine has to come apart, but it's nice to see how it's all done and be able to see it too.
Many thanks to you for sharing this with all of us who have never gone there before. :handshak:

SharkPilot

You're welcome and I hope my posts can be of benefit to others. It will be a little slow with things that keep coming in the way, but I am documenting this entire thing so I'll post as I can. The way I figure is some folks don't like to ask dumb questions, but I don't mind and I am first to admit I need help with this build. :cheers:

HAWAIIZR-1

10-14-2009, 06:15 PM

So I has some time to start taking out the pistons and looking at the bearing so here are so pics (not so great though) of the bearings by cyl. I have some concerns about how these look and even though being replaced, what is the root cause of this is more important.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01478.jpg
Cyl #1

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01479.jpg

Cyl #2

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01480.jpg

Cyl #3

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01481.jpg

Cyl #4

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01482.jpg

Cyl #5

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01483.jpg

Cyl #6

HAWAIIZR-1

10-14-2009, 06:18 PM

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01485.jpg

Cyl #7

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01486.jpg

Cyl #8

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01487.jpg

A sample of what all the pistons look like. One of the verticle scores can be felt with finger nail, but a check of all the liners there is no damage or scores.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01488.jpg

Another example of a piston

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01489.jpg

Inside one of the liners. Cannot see any visible cross hatch, but very glazed. You can see very fine lines going vertical in the bore.

Polo-1

10-15-2009, 01:20 AM

Just because you have beaches all the way around you, don't use the Z for hitting the sand dunes:mrgreen:

Looks like she has ate some sand in the liner.

HAWAIIZR-1

10-15-2009, 01:48 AM

Just because you have beaches all the way around you, don't use the Z for hitting the sand dunes

Looks like she has ate some sand in the liner.

Good one Kevin. Yes, as a matter of fact you may have something there. This Z came from Florida and I remember when I first got it and all the detailing I was doing under car and in the engine compartment surprised me with all the sand I was finding everywhere. Even in the frame there were chunks of sand like small rocks and some as large as 2 inches that I had to dig out. I promise you that I have not put offroad tires on and been bikini watching on Waikiki beach.

I decided to insert photos here after the fact that were missed:

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01490.jpg

I am a little disappointed by the crankshaft end play that should be .0006 to
.0010 and as you can see .0010 at the max.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01491.jpg

I would have preferred to use the correct tool or a 3 jaw at a minimum but it was still easy to remove the gear even with this Craftsman 2 jaw.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01492.jpg

Getting ready to remove the oil pump.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01495.jpg

I forgot what this is called but very critical not to scratch, ding, etc. so it was carefully wrapped, ziplocked and labeled.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01493.jpg

Oil pump removed and ready to remove the main cap bolts and lower case

tomtom72

10-15-2009, 09:14 AM

Holy smokes. How many miles on the motor?

Okay, I have only assembled a few chevy sb motors from the stone age so being largely inexperienced I would be very thankful to learn from all you guys that have way more knowledge than I have.:o

My questions:

All the scoring on the skirts and I thought I saw some in the bores(?) was caused by foreign particles in the oiling system? Or in the intake air? Or both?

How do those foreign particles get in the motor? Running w/no air filter? How do they get into the oil?

What is the proper repair/correction procedure for all that?

Kevin, you were kidding about a ZR-1 being used as a dune buggy, right?

:redface: Sorry for the hi-jack Craig. Sorry for these stupid Q's.

:cheers:
Tom

John Boothby

10-15-2009, 11:09 AM

Coming from Fla with "chunks" of sand in the frame rails sounds like possible flood damage. I have heard this about Fla cars.

Polo-1

10-16-2009, 12:08 AM

Fun out on Daytona Beach:thumbsup:

If the filter is not seated right or sand get knocked in when changing out the old...........

Sand gets sucked in. I see this all the time on the 2 stroke bikes when we would go to Oregon Coast for riding, back in the day. Not a big deal, but every scratch ( going from top to bottom ) is a little loss in compression.

Other thing I see is the top and second ring are getting hammered. Lots of pitting at the edges.

Craig did this car sit for a long period of time?

HAWAIIZR-1

10-16-2009, 12:29 AM

Tom,

53K miles. No problem and hopefully some good answers will come of your questions.

John,

If it was in a flood it is not evident anywhere else and surely did not get into the interior cabin and the rest of the underneath is pretty clean and appropriate for the mileage.

Kevin,

Yes, stored for when I got relocated and deployed in 2004 and when I returned in 2006 it was relocated to my current home where it was stored again from 2007 to 2009 while being restored for other things like interior, engine upgrades, etc. but ran strong and no indication of issues other than some smoking at WOT when it was last shut down to get to where it is now.

HAWAIIZR-1

10-16-2009, 12:31 AM

I can't wait to see what the mains look like when I can get to them over the weekend.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01498.jpg

The con rod journals look okay, but these shots are not that good and have dust showing.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01499.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01500.jpg

[IMG]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01502.jpg[IMG]

tomtom72

10-16-2009, 11:24 AM

Thanks Kevin for taking the time to 'splain things! There are no places where I can be near or drive on sand.....maybe where Frank lives out on Long Island.

Thanks Craig for being so tolerant of me in your threads! :thumbsup:

I'm thinking that Kevin's comment about the rings ( I didn't even "see" an issue there!:redface: ) could apply to my poor car. :cry: 7400 miles in 14.5 yrs is not exactly "frequent use"...and then I buy it and drive it alot!

HAWAIIZR-1

10-18-2009, 04:13 AM

For your entertainment, here is what the main bearings look like. Hopefully someone with experience can share some good points about the condiion of these. I am thinking about getting them coated and I heard about Calico and Polydyn. Not sure if these qualify or not and will have to send them in to be looked at. I am leaning more toward Polydyn at this point.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01503.jpg

Main #1 lower

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01504.jpg

Main #2 lower

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01505.jpg

Main #3 lower

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01506.jpg

Main #4 lower

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01507.jpg

Main #5 lower

HAWAIIZR-1

10-18-2009, 04:18 AM

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01508.jpg

Main #1 upper

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01509.jpg

Main #2 upper

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01510.jpg

Main #3 upper

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01511.jpg

Main #4 upper

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01512.jpg

Main #5 upper

HAWAIIZR-1

10-18-2009, 05:03 AM

I forgot to take pics of the crankshaft when it was out and the lower and upper portions of the bare block, but the main jounals looked and felt okay to me. My plan is to take all these components to a machine shop that does some racing engines here to have it looked at by a professional just to make sure I am on the right track as where to go from here and have them check all the specs with recommendations too.

tomtom72

10-18-2009, 08:51 AM

HAWAIIZR-1

10-18-2009, 01:55 PM

Craig, just posting this link that I ran across when I was looking for header coatings. Figured maybe some one from up north may have some hard knowledge on these guys as they seem to advertise "coatings" similar to what you are exploring?

http://afterburnercoatings.com/

I know I saw a few more links here in our tech section in various motor tear down threads....I think Lee's old thread from his motor tear down had a few links?

:cheers:
Tom

Thanks Tom. I am leaning towards Polydyn only because Marc H mentioned he has never replaced main bearings in any of his builds and uses Polydyn. I really trust Marc, but if mine cannot be coated for some reason I appreciate your offer to sell me a set. :handshak: Wait until you hear about the dream I had........LT5 dream.

Polo-1

10-18-2009, 03:10 PM

HAWAIIZR-1

10-18-2009, 03:17 PM

Take and clean the mains up with 00 steel wool or soft used green 3m scour pads. You dont want to remove or sand, just clean them up.

I sent my new and used set of mains to Calico Coatings. http://www.calicocoatings.com/

They do a great job too. You can not tell the new from the old set.

Thanks Kevin. I really appreciate the info. What is the best way to store the crank once I remove it from the block. I'm not sure if it is supposed to stand on end or okay to lay down on the side? When I get them back and need to check the clearance with plastigage with that torque to yield and the final if okay will be 3 times torquing the main bolts for a 1 time use bolt. How bad it that?

Polo-1

10-18-2009, 04:29 PM

What is the best way to store the crank once I remove it from the block. I'm not sure if it is supposed to stand on end or okay to lay down on the side? check the clearance with plastigage with that torque to yield and the final if okay will be 3 times torquing the main bolts for a 1 time use bolt. How bad it that?

The Milloin dallor question's.

On the crank, I have heard both side's of the story. I stand them on end out of the block. If they are going to be out for long term ( + years ) I make the 2x6 V cut blocks of wood crate. I use a heavy (cheap wheel bearing grease) give it a good wipe down.

Main Bolts, I think At 60% your clearances will not change. Double check that first.

HAWAIIZR-1

10-18-2009, 04:38 PM

The Milloin dallor question's.

On the crank, I have heard both side's of the story. I stand them on end out of the block. If they are going to be out for long term ( + years ) I make the 2x6 V cut blocks of wood crate. I use a heavy (cheap wheel bearing grease) give it a good wipe down.

Main Bolts, I think At 60% your clearances will not change. Double that first.

Okay, thanks.