1st LT5 engine pull, looking for tips and tricks

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Hello gang,

Other than what is on the CPT mechanical video and in the FSM does anyone have some lessons learned about pull the LT5 with the hood on?

Here are some questions I have:

1. I heard it is easiest to pull the engine from the driver's side, correct?

2. Where is the best location to bolt the chain for hoist hook up? I am going to pull the plenum and many other items that might be in the way and I'm guess it might become more evident then. I have to buy the bolts, chain, etc.

Why am I pulling the motor? I found a chunk of metal when I changed my oil that appears to be coming from a piece of timing chain guide that broke off. My entire driver's side cylinders are 25 lbs lower than the other side in compression test and makes sense if the guide is broken and chain is causing cam timing issues. So I figured to go ahead and degree the cams and the same time with some other work while I am at it. Might as well put in the 4:10s, beam plates, new clutch and fidanza aluminum flywheel that I have.

Thanks for your help and advice in advance.

[Jeffvette]

Craig, pull the motor from the passenger side. Get the front wheel off to give you room to get the cherry picker in. You will need two people. One to work the picker and the other to help guide the motor.

I use the starter bolt holes and then in the front use the front injector housing bolts on the cylinder head.

[flyin ryan]

Never heard of the drivers side thing myself :confused:. 'Just' pulled & installed mine from the passenger side (with the hood on). Since your pulling the plenum I'm assuming you know about un-doing the wiring harness & leave it with the car. Sure glad Jeff told me about that. I bet he'll chime in & give you some tips ;).

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig, pull the motor from the passenger side. Get the front wheel off to give you room to get the cherry picker in. You will need two people. One to work the picker and the other to help guide the motor.

I use the starter bolt holes and then in the front use the front injector housing bolts on the cylinder head.

Jeff to the rescue again. Thanks Jeff, I'll try my best not to bug you during the process.....you know I'm scared of this, but gotta do it.

[Jeffvette]

Jeff to the rescue again. Thanks Jeff, I'll try my best not to bug you during the process.....you know I'm scared of this, but gotta do it.


Don't worry about it, and I'm still 100% positive my id of the part is right.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Never heard of the drivers side thing myself :confused:. 'Just' pulled & installed mine from the passenger side (with the hood on). Since your pulling the plenum I'm assuming you know about un-doing the wiring harness & leave it with the car. Sure glad Jeff told me about that. I bet he'll chime in & give you some tips ;).

flyin ryan,

Thanks for your input and I appreciate it. I'm going to take my time and ask many, many questions.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Don't worry about it, and I'm still 100% positive my id of the part is right.

Yes, I'm sure you are right too based on the measurements, just can't figure out how the heck it would happen. I really I wish I did not have to pull the motor to find out, but I'll take it as learning more about the heart of the beast. Thanks again!!!!

[flyin ryan]

Yup...your welcome, no problem. I might be able to help a little because it's still very fresh in my brain, kinda like a fresh wound...just joking it's not too bad, but Jeff is the guy to lean on, it's second nature to him.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Yup...your welcome, no problem. I might be able to help a little because it's still very fresh in my brain, kinda like a fresh wound...just joking it's not too bad, but Jeff is the guy to lean on, it's second nature to him.

Without the help of everyone here, I would have gave up and got rid of it years ago. My memory is bad so I have to watch the CPT video a thousand times and read the FSM every night. Yep and Jeff has a business to run too and is always takes the time to help out.

[tpepmeie]

:thumbsup: subscribed! Looking forward to learning something here, too. I'll be doing this myself in a couple of months.

Ryan, Jeff, easier to leave the wiring harness with the vehicle, I take it?

Todd

[tomtom72]

subscribed also.....:redface: I have alot to learn here, too. Sorry to hear that this is happening to you Craig. I have a set of crank & rod bearings(from LIMEY's run) if you run into that issue.....I hope not:pray.......but I'll take time payments & what I paid for them, if you get jammed up....not trying to be a wise guy, I'm straight up on this.

:cheers:
Tom

[Jeffvette]

:thumbsup: subscribed! Looking forward to learning something here, too. I'll be doing this myself in a couple of months.

Ryan, Jeff, easier to leave the wiring harness with the vehicle, I take it?

Todd

Yes Todd, leave the harness in the car. That way you don't have to go and yank out the connections underneath the passenger side of the dash.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

subscribed also.....:redface: I have alot to learn here, too. Sorry to hear that this is happening to you Craig. I have a set of crank & rod bearings(from LIMEY's run) if you run into that issue.....I hope not:pray.......but I'll take time payments & what I paid for them, if you get jammed up....not trying to be a wise guy, I'm straight up on this.

:cheers:
Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the offer; I really appreciate it and hoping it is just minor work to make it right.

[phrogs]

post a picture of this piece you found

[HAWAIIZR-1]

post a picture of this piece you found

John, thanks for asking. Before getting it running a few months ago I put on the magnetic oil drain plug and it was stuck to the magnet. Some say it looks like a piece of the key in the crank and others a piece broken off from a chain guide so I figured I better open er up in and figure out what it is. I know it is difficult to tell in pictures, but you pull took apart enough of these and might be able to tell too. I'm just confused.....:icon_scra

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC_1418.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC_1419.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC_1420.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC_1422.jpg
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC_1423.jpg

[tpepmeie]

Best place to get the CPT videos? I thought somebody had transferred them to DVD. There are 2 on Ebay, says 2 of 4. Anywhere else?

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Best place to get the CPT videos? I thought somebody had transferred them to DVD. There are 2 on Ebay, says 2 of 4. Anywhere else?

The old, original VHS videos are probably the only legally way to buy these and selling them for profit or copying them are illegal. I even checked with the company that made them and they don't have any left so I have only seen them on Ebay and missed out a few times to get the entire set with the books, case, etc.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

A little progress was made yesterday as I started to prep for this project. I bought an engine stand from Checker's and assembled it; not bad for $59, but if I were going to do this often I would buy a high quality one that is easy to turn the motor over, etc.

Removed the exhaust and it is getting easier and quicker each time. Started removing the headers and lesson learned is that Stage 8 bolts will not be going back in. It was hell to get to all the clips and get them off; a few went flying who knows where and got them with a magnet. I like the fact that the heads of the bolts use 8mm wrench for space, but can't get much torque to them to tighten.

Started to disconnect all the sensors underneath and the trans is ready to be dropped next.

I decided to get an engine leveler to make it easier; trying to order a decent one now. After removing the inner fender pieces to get access to the header bolts, it does appear the driver's side will give the most clearance after the all is said and done, but I did not want to change sides of the garage and throw the wife off and before you know it......something will be hit and I will be blamed of course.

During my evenings I'll start taking off the top half and accessories and are in the way and start to get the harness items all disconnected. I'm baggin and taggin everything with pictures along the way because my memory is not very good these days and who knows how long until I put it back in once it comes out, not know what exactly is wrong with the motor yet. I'll have to also get inside to get the hurst shifter out of the way before I can drop the trans.

Still trying to find a good shop to do the 4:10s. Looking for a good clutch to match the Fidanza aluminum flywheel I bougth from Phrogs (John) a few years ago. I will also get all new spicer joint replaced in driveshaft and half shaft while I'm at it. Good time to put in all the poly bushings I bought a few years ago too.

This is going to be a slow process and I'm not rushing with all the traveling I have to do for work. I'll pull the motor after I get back from Thailand in a few weeks; I have to watch out for the H1N1.

[carter200]

Craig,
Try these:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTESearch?storeId=6970&in_dym=1&Nty=1&D=than&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=engine%20equalizer&cmnosearch=PPC&cm_ven=PPC&cm_cat=Yahoo!%20New%20Sponsored%20Search&cm_pla=nt_trailers&cm_ite=engine%20equalizer

http://agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=57606&sid=BooyahPI&eid=p_57606&bhcd2=1248239881

http://www.nationalwholesaletools.com/browseproducts/Load-Leveler---Engine-Sling.HTML

http://www.cvfsupplycompany.com/enginesling.html

This should get you started :thumbsup:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig,
Try these:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NTESearch?storeId=6970&in_dym=1&Nty=1&D=than&Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&N=0&Ntk=All&Ntt=engine%20equalizer&cmnosearch=PPC&cm_ven=PPC&cm_cat=Yahoo!%20New%20Sponsored%20Search&cm_pla=nt_trailers&cm_ite=engine%20equalizer

http://agrisupply.com/product.asp?pn=57606&sid=BooyahPI&eid=p_57606&bhcd2=1248239881

http://www.nationalwholesaletools.com/browseproducts/Load-Leveler---Engine-Sling.HTML

http://www.cvfsupplycompany.com/enginesling.html

This should get you started :thumbsup:

Thanks Carter. I got and email from James with the LT1 that is borrowing an engine hoist from a friend and the guy has a leveler too so I'm all set. I appreciate the search and links. I was supposed to pull the plenum tonight and got lazy after work with dinner and some TV.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Well, I am making some progress though not as much as I would like with everything　else going on in my life. My trip to Thailand was delayed and I did not leave today so I decided to strip the top half for preparation.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01249.jpg

All is going well so far, but can someone give tips about getting the A/C compressor out of the way without taking out the freon? I prefer not to have to charge it after putting the engine back in when repairs are done. I still need to pull the injector rail and get all of the wiring harness out of the way.

I am not looking forward to taking out the brake power booster. I already pulled out the driver's seat as I remember wrestling with this before and that might end up the hardest part of pulling the motor.

I think I am going to get the plenum and IHs ported professionally while this is out since it was a DIY last time and not quite ported for peformance. If I can afford to I want to pull the heads to get it ported and valve stem seals with competition valve work....we'll see.

The engine stand does not come with any bolts for stand to the block so I will shop for some grade 8 as well as some bolts for the points on the block to chain to.

It was amazing how easily everything came off since a alot of stuff was taken off recently. I did not have to fight with anything and the SAMCO hoses were easy to remove too. I learned a lesson on gaskets and will not buy from a source I did. The gaskets stuck and broke for the plenum unlike the factory ones that can be reused; I don't even have 500 miles on them. I have coolant bypassed so it was clean and not messy to deal.

Any tips and tricks are appreciated. I'm just taking my time actually enjoying this pull.

What about some tips for pulling the driveshaft, beam and trans? I think I'll wait until I get help to pull the trans itself. Is all that is needed to remove the clutch assembly is one of the tools that holds the flywheel?

Thanks!!!

[tccrab]

It was amazing how easily everything came off since a alot of stuff was taken off recently. I did not have to fight with anything and the SAMCO hoses were easy to remove too. I learned a lesson on gaskets and will not buy from a source I did. The gaskets stuck and broke for the plenum unlike the factory ones that can be reused; I don't even have 500 miles on them. I have coolant bypassed so it was clean and not messy to deal.


Craig:

I had the same thing happen to me when I had to pull my plenum to replace coil packs about a week ago. The new ones that I just put on yesterday came from Jerry's Gaskets and they look much better than the ones that broke.


What about some tips for pulling the driveshaft, beam and trans? I think I'll wait until I get help to pull the trans itself. Is all that is needed to remove the clutch assembly is one of the tools that holds the flywheel?

Thanks!!!

The first thing you'll want to do is to order up a set of CBeam alignment plates.
Trust me.
I believe ZFactor has a few sets left, I'll let him chime in.
Again, TRUST ME.
Once you've put a wrench to the CBeam you'll understand why.
The CBeam will probably need a little persuasion to get it out, It's a very tight fit. Don't be afraid to give it a few whacks with a dead blow hammer.

The clutch comes out with no special tools, just remember to loosen the clutch pivot ball first.

I did a fairly comprehensive write up with pictures back when I replaced my transmission due to 2nd gear synchro failure.
Be sure to read completely trough the thread, there LOTS of good info there.
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5351

Good luck!!

TomC
"Crabs"

[Jeffvette]

All is going well so far, but can someone give tips about getting the A/C compressor out of the way without taking out the freon? I prefer not to have to charge it after putting the engine back in when repairs are done. I still need to pull the injector rail and get all of the wiring harness out of the way.

I am not looking forward to taking out the brake power booster. I already pulled out the driver's seat as I remember wrestling with this before and that might end up the hardest part of pulling the motor.

What about some tips for pulling the driveshaft, beam and trans? I think I'll wait until I get help to pull the trans itself. Is all that is needed to remove the clutch assembly is one of the tools that holds the flywheel?

Thanks!!!

On the AC compressor, just undo the three bolts that hold it to the block and pull it out of the way. There is enough slack to lay it on the shroud.

The brake booster does not need to come out. Definitely remove the cover for the windshield wiper that contains the circuit board.

On the trans, it's simple. Just unbolt and drop out. Mark the driveshaft orientation to the pumpkin. And mark the flywheel orientation to the pressure plate. If you have a impact gun, the bolts on the flywheel will come off easy, otherwise you will need a flywheel tool to hold it in place while you use a hand wrench.

[Paul Workman]

Dittos on the C-beam plates. Also, there is a jig that Bill B provides as well - it fits over both nuts on the top of the beam and "cages" them when you begin to back out the bolts. I've pulled the C-beams a few times - enough to know that it is a bit of a pain until the beam plates are installed. After that, the C-beam is a piece of cake to get on and "off".

BTW, you do not have to remove the beam to pull the drive shaft OR drop the tranny: To remove the drive shaft, all that has to be done is push the beam away from the shaft far enough to access the shaft. Easy. The FSM "moving" the beam aft over the differential's nose far enough to allow the tail of the trans to drop past the end of the beam. Works every time (so far!).

Well...Good luck on the engine pull. I've got that chore on my "to do" list of winter projects - finish my upgrades by porting the heads next (tho the top end P&P/headers and flow-thru exhaust has me doing the :dancing:-D at the moment! WooHoo!)

p.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig:

I had the same thing happen to me when I had to pull my plenum to replace coil packs about a week ago. The new ones that I just put on yesterday came from Jerry's Gaskets and they look much better than the ones that broke.



The first thing you'll want to do is to order up a set of CBeam alignment plates.
Trust me.
I believe ZFactor has a few sets left, I'll let him chime in.
Again, TRUST ME.
Once you've put a wrench to the CBeam you'll understand why.
The CBeam will probably need a little persuasion to get it out, It's a very tight fit. Don't be afraid to give it a few whacks with a dead blow hammer.

The clutch comes out with no special tools, just remember to loosen the clutch pivot ball first.

I did a fairly comprehensive write up with pictures back when I replaced my transmission due to 2nd gear synchro failure.
Be sure to read completely trough the thread, there LOTS of good info there.
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5351

Good luck!!

TomC
"Crabs"

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the info and reply, I really appreciate it. I bought some gaskets from Jerry and will get a set of this one from him; I think I might have a set of NOS ones laying around too.

Yes, I do have a set of C beam plates that I bought a few years ago and was waiting until I had to pull the trans or rear for some reason; now I have a reason. I heard what you said and it will be a lifesaver next time and also for the performance. Thanks for the removal tips.

I'll remember the pivot ball first too and check out your thread; so much to learn.

Thanks again,

[HAWAIIZR-1]

On the AC compressor, just undo the three bolts that hold it to the block and pull it out of the way. There is enough slack to lay it on the shroud.

The brake booster does not need to come out. Definitely remove the cover for the windshield wiper that contains the circuit board.

On the trans, it's simple. Just unbolt and drop out. Mark the driveshaft orientation to the pumpkin. And mark the flywheel orientation to the pressure plate. If you have a impact gun, the bolts on the flywheel will come off easy, otherwise you will need a flywheel tool to hold it in place while you use a hand wrench.

Jeff,

Thanks, I did do that and the A/C compressor was just scared of breaking the lines or something so now I know it is no problem and will just be careful.

Great news on the booster, I thought I saw somewhere that it should come out and it is just for pulling cam cover I guess. It seems tight but you would know and I am glad to hear. Thanks for the tip on the wiper cover too.

About the trans, I am replacing the flywheel with Fidanza aluminum and fidanza 3.2 clutch. I will also be pulling the pumpkin to replace with 4:10s and will mark orientation as well as replace the u joints on driveshaft and half shafts while apart. I appreciate the tips.

Thanks!!!

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Dittos on the C-beam plates. Also, there is a jig that Bill B provides as well - it fits over both nuts on the top of the beam and "cages" them when you begin to back out the bolts. I've pulled the C-beams a few times - enough to know that it is a bit of a pain until the beam plates are installed. After that, the C-beam is a piece of cake to get on and "off".

BTW, you do not have to remove the beam to pull the drive shaft OR drop the tranny: To remove the drive shaft, all that has to be done is push the beam away from the shaft far enough to access the shaft. Easy. The FSM "moving" the beam aft over the differential's nose far enough to allow the tail of the trans to drop past the end of the beam. Works every time (so far!).

Well...Good luck on the engine pull. I've got that chore on my "to do" list of winter projects - finish my upgrades by porting the heads next (tho the top end P&P/headers and flow-thru exhaust has me doing the :dancing:-D at the moment! WooHoo!)

p.

Paul,

Thanks for the tips and information. This is my first time working with the Cbeam or anything else like this so far so I'm all ear about everything. The last time I pull a motor was in the late 70s so it has been awhile and just from my 68 Z/28 (darn, I wish I still had that car....my biggest mistake).

I'm finding that I don't have as much energy to do this all day into the evening like I used to and will try work continue a little during the evenings too.

Thanks for the wishes and I hope to pull it next weekend or the next at the latest. I'm anxious to pull the front cover to see what is going on in there. Degreeing the camshafts will be my biggest challenge I suppose.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

subscribed also.....:redface: I have alot to learn here, too. Sorry to hear that this is happening to you Craig. I have a set of crank & rod bearings(from LIMEY's run) if you run into that issue.....I hope not:pray.......but I'll take time payments & what I paid for them, if you get jammed up....not trying to be a wise guy, I'm straight up on this.

:cheers:
Tom

Tom,

I'll PM you about this. I got my oil test results back with high levels of copper and lead. Not jumping to conclusion yet, but sound like bearings. Now to decide if I want to just do the motor and go bigger too while I'm at it.

Thanks!

[tomtom72]

I'll stand by what I posted. I can't find the bill, though. But you can go to WRP site and look up the bearings yourself and you will notice that the crank bearings are in the crank section, and the rods are sold seperately at the rod section(?)....wow that chit is expensive! When I bought them it was like $410.00(?,I have to check my paypal account for the figure ) for the complete set, rods & mains.

I thought it was a prudent choice, but then after buying them I'm not so sure. If I need bearings, I need a crank...or why am I taking apart a motor that is fine? If the rings are worn, then the bearings are worn also, but will the crank stand new bearings with out any crank work? See what I mean? Now I see why the guys that know say rebuild time? The answer = 368 or bigger.:redface:

Okay, like I said I'll stand by my post! The only caution I have is that I assume that you have been tracking your oil analysis over quite a number of miles?...otherwise, one analysis is worthless as a wear indicator, generally. Make sure the crank journals are up to just a bearing swap or you will have to go back in at a later date and redo it all!. JMHO.:redface:

:cheers:
Tom

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I'll stand by what I posted. I can't find the bill, though. But you can go to WRP site and look up the bearings yourself and you will notice that the crank bearings are in the crank section, and the rods are sold seperately at the rod section(?)....wow that chit is expensive! When I bought them it was like $410.00(?,I have to check my paypal account for the figure ) for the complete set, rods & mains.

I thought it was a prudent choice, but then after buying them I'm not so sure. If I need bearings, I need a crank...or why am I taking apart a motor that is fine? If the rings are worn, then the bearings are worn also, but will the crank stand new bearings with out any crank work? See what I mean? Now I see why the guys that know say rebuild time? The answer = 368 or bigger.:redface:

Okay, like I said I'll stand by my post! The only caution I have is that I assume that you have been tracking your oil analysis over quite a number of miles?...otherwise, one analysis is worthless as a wear indicator, generally. Make sure the crank journals are up to just a bearing swap or you will have to go back in at a later date and redo it all!. JMHO.:redface:

:cheers:
Tom

Tom,

Thanks again and I am still trying to figure out what I am going to do and won't know for sure until I get it all apart so no rush. I want to do this right so I will have to check everything out and think about how much to spend. I would like also find out more about WRP bearings too so I have research to do. I cannot do another analysis and that is the first but will have to be my indicator and reason enough to inspect the bottom half. Thanks and Aloha, Craig :handshak:

[tpepmeie]

Does anyone have the CPT videos they would be willing to let me borrow? I'm getting into my engine removal, and would feel better if I reviewed the videos.

thanks,
Todd

[flyin ryan]

What's your address? :cheers:.

[flyin ryan]

CPT videos on the way to you Todd :wave:.

[tpepmeie]

Ryan,
Tapes are on the way back. Thanks again! A few valuable tips, which helped prepare the motor for its big exit.

Do any of the other Z brothers here have the lift hooks? I've left the inj housings in place, so I am not sure where else to lift from besides using the hooks.

Todd

[tccrab]

BillyBaloney just bought a '94 engine with problems and he says that it came with the lifting mounts.
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9420
Give him a PM, maybe he'll share.

TomC
"Crabs"

[phrogs]

Ryan,
Tapes are on the way back. Thanks again! A few valuable tips, which helped prepare the motor for its big exit.

Do any of the other Z brothers here have the lift hooks? I've left the inj housings in place, so I am not sure where else to lift from besides using the hooks.

Todd


I just bolt a chain in at the heads its using the same idea as the lifting hooks bolts in aluminum so thats what I do works every time

[flyin ryan]

Ryan,
Tapes are on the way back. Thanks again! A few valuable tips, which helped prepare the motor for its big exit.

Do any of the other Z brothers here have the lift hooks? I've left the inj housings in place, so I am not sure where else to lift from besides using the hooks.

ToddYour welcome Todd :hello:. Wish I'd have known/you'd have mentioned something :confused:, I could have sent a set with the tapes :dontknow:.

[tpepmeie]

Your welcome Todd :hello:. Wish I'd have known/you'd have mentioned something :confused:, I could have sent a set with the tapes :dontknow:.

No worries Ryan. I 'll try to source them in the states for ease of shipping/etc. Will let you know.

:cheers:
Todd

[A26B]

Todd,

I have a set I can loan you.. Let me know. I also have a home made, aluminum spreader bar you can borrow too. All work good. made it during the time I had all those engines.

Jerry

[billybaloneey]

BillyBaloney just bought a '94 engine with problems and he says that it came with the lifting mounts.
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9420
Give him a PM, maybe he'll share.

TomC
"Crabs"

tpepmeir (Todd),

I mailed you a set of engine lift brackets...you should have them by Friday...shipped USPS. I'm tearing into my engine that's still sitting on the shipping pallet, and will need them back once I get the heads off, I'll want to put the motor on a rotating engine stand for re-assembly

[A26B]

Todd,
email w/photo sent re: spreader bar.

[tpepmeie]

Well, the engine came out of #411 without drama yesterday. Thanks to help from a few friends on this board. Lift brackets from Clint (Billybaloney) and videos from Flyin Ryan.

the improved, 2nd design two-piece exhaust manifolds were a blessing and a curse. It seemed all but impossible to actually reach a couple of the bolts on the flange. Finally got them with some different swivel sockets. Despite all that, I am glad the engine can be lifted straight up, rather than tilted at an extreme angle like the one-piece manifolds require. I was holding my breath as it was, making sure the engine didn't swing back and take out the cowl or windshield. A little paranoid, I'm sure.

Trans came out pretty easily, even though she was only on 18" jackstands or so. I imagine it will be a real bear to get it back on from under there, though.

The oil cooler lines managed to spew a little oil, I think it is still dripping from the frame... Cleanup to do today. And the coolant hoses left some nice green antifreeze everywhere.

All in all, it was a good experience. Thanks guys. :cheers:

Todd

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Well I'm finally back on this project too as I had a month long bout with pnemonia then had to go to Thailand for a week. I'm going to get back on this today by dropping the trans. Have to pull a bolt from the bellhousing so I can get correct lenght bolts for the engine stand and also figure out what bolts will be needed to grab onto the heads or block. If someone has the hooks to loan that would be great too; sounds like not needed, but the best way to go.

Thanks for all the tips and tricks so far.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Never heard of the drivers side thing myself :confused:. 'Just' pulled & installed mine from the passenger side (with the hood on). Since your pulling the plenum I'm assuming you know about un-doing the wiring harness & leave it with the car. Sure glad Jeff told me about that. I bet he'll chime in & give you some tips ;).

Please tell me more about leaving the wiring harness in the car. Thanks in advance!!!!

[Jeffvette]

Please tell me more about leaving the wiring harness in the car. Thanks in advance!!!!


Craig, after you get the headers off, you just need to disconnect all the various sensors and just pull the harness and stuff it up by the windshield out of the way.

[Paul Workman]

What Jeffvette said. Looks like someone slaughtered an octopus and laid it in the engine bay - the sensor plugs looking like suckers on it's arms!

This is my "first time" too, and it ain't the taking it apart that makes me a little anxious...It's the thought of making sure they're all re-connected when putting it back together that has me a leeeetle noivus! Can't wait tho!

P.

[billybaloneey]

I've been tearing into my spare engine which came with a full harness entact...it's a scary thought about not getting everything connected back together...and I have the luxuary of the engine already being out of the car.

Some points I have found helpfull:

1) get a factory service manual (FSM) if you don't already have one
2) label what you can on the electrical connector side...the FSM gives the physical location...and a line drawing of most all of them, and the wire color(s)
3) the majority of connectors are unique (color/pin count/cavity count)
4) all of the fuel injector connectors, if kept in the split loom, will line up the with the appropiate injector when it comes time to reconnect
5) in the back section of the FSM manual it shows line drawings of the connectors, their pin/cavity count and a description of what it connects to
6) make special note of any wires or connectors that were spliced in from repairs in the past...by you our any previous owners...most probably the connector will be correct but the wires...if replaced/extended...will not be the right color(s) and/or guage, (I have found two under the plenum of my spare engine)
7) all of the grounds go to a couple of common points/locations and should be easy to keep bundled together...the FSM is detailed with line drawings
8) for those connectors that are not so obvious, logical deduction will be your guide (wire color(s), wire guage, length to nearby sensors)
9) the wiring schematics will give you the wire color(s) and wire guage
10) take pictures...take lots and lots of pictures (you'll most likely be doing some engine clean-up...those pictures will give you a good before and after feeling, and share them with the forum...I for one can never see enough LT5 pictures)

Best advise is to go over the FSM several times...the engine and electrical portion...then things will begin to make sense, show some logic, and not keep you awake at night wondering, "How will I ever get everything reconnected again?"

[flyin ryan]

Luckly, most sensor hook-up's can only go on one thing, pretty hard to put them on sensors not designed for the correct end.

[Jeffvette]

Luckly, most sensor hook-up's can only go on one thing, pretty hard to put them on sensors not designed for the correct end.


Engine harnesses are simple. They route one way and will connect to one thing. Remember who the people are that are installing them.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig, after you get the headers off, you just need to disconnect all the various sensors and just pull the harness and stuff it up by the windshield out of the way.

Thanks Jeff. It seemed like you said, but I just wanted to make sure there was not anything special I should be doing. I have not taken all the wiring off the injectors and going into the area under the plenum yet so I might as well starting with all of that. Man, I guess I better take some picures as my memory won't remember in a few months where all this stuff goes. Thanks again!:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I've been tearing into my spare engine which came with a full harness entact...it's a scary thought about not getting everything connected back together...and I have the luxuary of the engine already being out of the car.

Some points I have found helpfull:

1) get a factory service manual (FSM) if you don't already have one
2) label what you can on the electrical connector side...the FSM gives the physical location...and a line drawing of most all of them, and the wire color(s)
3) the majority of connectors are unique (color/pin count/cavity count)
4) all of the fuel injector connectors, if kept in the split loom, will line up the with the appropiate injector when it comes time to reconnect
5) in the back section of the FSM manual it shows line drawings of the connectors, their pin/cavity count and a description of what it connects to
6) make special note of any wires or connectors that were spliced in from repairs in the past...by you our any previous owners...most probably the connector will be correct but the wires...if replaced/extended...will not be the right color(s) and/or guage, (I have found two under the plenum of my spare engine)
7) all of the grounds go to a couple of common points/locations and should be easy to keep bundled together...the FSM is detailed with line drawings
8) for those connectors that are not so obvious, logical deduction will be your guide (wire color(s), wire guage, length to nearby sensors)
9) the wiring schematics will give you the wire color(s) and wire guage
10) take pictures...take lots and lots of pictures (you'll most likely be doing some engine clean-up...those pictures will give you a good before and after feeling, and share them with the forum...I for one can never see enough LT5 pictures)

Best advise is to go over the FSM several times...the engine and electrical portion...then things will begin to make sense, show some logic, and not keep you awake at night wondering, "How will I ever get everything reconnected again?"

Clint,

Thanks for the tips and points well taken. My biggest concern is getting the routing correct, but it seems that there are only a few situations that would be questionable or make say, "darn I should have put the wiring through first" before installing something. For some it is probably second nature after pulling and putting the LT5 back in several times already. :cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Thanks for all the other comments. I know one thing for sure, with the brotherhood here I can't go wrong and help is always available should one get stuck. :handshak:

[BlackWidow#2]

Thanks for all the other comments. I know one thing for sure, with the brotherhood here I can't go wrong and help is always available should one get stuck. :handshak:

Truer words have never been spoken!
Props to all who have taken the time to help.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Well, I finally joined the LT5 Engine Pull Club. It took a long time with between my business trips and bout with pnemonia; I never thought I would see the day.

With the help of folks here and taking my time to bag and tag over a few months it seems it took forever. But with the help of a great C4 LT1 friend here and everything ready to go, the LT5 was out in no time. We could not believe how easy and quickly it came out. Since everything was already disconnected and ready to go, once the chains were on and the motor mounts nuts taken off the motor was out a few minutes later.

After mounting to the engine stand we had some difficulty with the bolt for the torsional damper and it sure was tight. Removed the damper and Jeffvette was right, the broken piece that I found stuck to my magnet on the drain plug that caused me to pull the motor was in fact a piece of the key on the crankshaft. Jeff, you are the man! The weird thing is how the heck did the broken piece get into the oil pan. This is one reason why none of the folks that I asked or anyone from forums would guess this item. It even appears to be in there wrong to begin with.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01390.jpg

The weirdest thing off all is the soft piece of silicone or form a gasket that was found in its place where the missing piece in the oil pan came from is the exact same size and even looked like the metal piece that I sent to Jeff for evaluation. Did this happen at the factory? Was this damper taken off before? It does not appear the motor was ever pulled based on what it looked like in the compartment with 20 years of grease and grime and based on the thinks that I removed to get it out. It appears someone knew that they broke off the key and squeezed some type of material to form a sealant in the keyway that took the shape of the missing piece; what kind of idiot would do that? I tried to keep the piece of material that I found for a photo, but lost it in clean up. Still, how did the piece get into the oil pan. The damper did not appear to be abused either on the outside or inside (crankshaft area).

So the front cover is then removed and very clean with no signs of wear or damage to timing chain tensioners or any indications of suspect problem to the entire left bank having lower compression. The tension on the chains were perfect too. All the teflon guide are in good shape too.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01391.jpg

I am really pleased at how clean the motor was behind the front cover with no visible issues, but still have to check the bottom half to see what is going on with the oil report of high copper and main bearing suspect. Some of the tuners doubt there is anything wrong with the bearings and believe the oil analysis is flawed. I have to check it anyway while I have it out.

Popped off the cam covers and everything looks good under there visually, but I'll have to check the cam timing as it must be way off on the driver's side bank to cause the lower compression across the board. Since I'm going this far I might as well take off the heads and get them to Greg Van Deventer to work his magic with the porting of heads, missing valve seals on 90MY and IH/plenum porting. Once the inspection is done for the bottom half I'll see if what else I want to do from there.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01394.jpg

I'll definitely take the time to clean up, paint some POR-15 chassis black while the motor is out and make it all purty with some nice organization for the mess of wiring and replace all the steering hoses, wire looms, new tape, etc. while I'm at it and before putting the LT5 back in.

Thanks to all of you who have provided guidance, tips and tricks. Especially to Jerry for sending me the engine lift brackets to borrow (I'll be sending them back to you on Monday with some Hawaiian goodies and money for postage). There sure are some folks who will not hesitate to go out of their way to help here. I sure hope I can repay the favors some day. Jeff was helping me with a seized header bolt that almost delayed my scheduled pull this weekend. I cut the head off and will deal with that later. I learned one this for sure and anti-seize, anti-seize, anti-seize. Another thing pay very close attention to the different loc-tite applications too.

I'll watch the CPT videos over and over before I start messing the camshafts and timing, etc. I'll have to get all the things together to do the cam timing right and read the FSM over and over too. More to follow when I get the heads off and bottom half apart for inspection.

Take care and Aloha!!!!!!!

[tomtom72]

You Da Man, Craig!:thumbsup:

JMHO, to me it looks like someone tried to "peen" the key into the slot. I think I see a punch/drift mark and a lateral distortion. That still don't answer how that fragment got into the oil pan...unless it was sitting under the motor on the floor between the legs of the engine stand waiting it's turn for the assembler's attention....????:redface:

fwiw the gasket on the front cover is OEM, I think? Then the sealant is OE also to prevent oil from using the keyway to get out of the oil pump??????:dontknow:

:cheers:
Tom

[HAWAIIZR-1]

You Da Man, Craig!:thumbsup:

JMHO, to me it looks like someone tried to "peen" the key into the slot. I think I see a punch/drift mark and a lateral distortion. That still don't answer how that fragment got into the oil pan...unless it was sitting under the motor on the floor between the legs of the engine stand waiting it's turn for the assembler's attention....????:redface:

fwiw the gasket on the front cover is OEM, I think? Then the sealant is OE also to prevent oil from using the keyway to get out of the oil pump??????:dontknow:

:cheers:
Tom

Hey Tom,

Thanks for your comments and observations. I'm just a novice trying to learn and fix this thing on my own due to my geographical location; I have no idea what I'm doing but with the help of the brothers here I'm not worried and this "Heart of the Beast" will live again. This still has me baffled and I can't believe that I also noticed that I don't even have an engine timing indicator plate telling me that in the past someone messing around with the timing and damper is possible. Yes, the gasket is OEM from the ones that I have seen or have. Not as visible in the picture, but you are right on about the key as the portion that is left is not right. I just wonder how long was that piece of metal in the oil pan and never came out with all the oil changes and the first time I put in the magnetic drain plug it catches it; I mean we are talking years. :dontknow: I am sold on the magnetic drain plug just for this fact alone. :thumbsup:

Well after the honey dos this morning, I'll start dissembling the heads so I can get them shipped off and be on the waiting list while I look at the rest of the motor so I can make some decisions on where to go from here.

Aloha!

[Tyler Townsley]

Trans came out pretty easily, even though she was only on 18" jackstands or so. I imagine it will be a real bear to get it back on from under there, though.


Todd

Buy 2, 3 in bolts that fit and cut off the heads, put them in the block and use them as a rail to guide the trans up to the block. It makes it easy to see if the trans is level. If it does not go into the pilot bearing just brace the cluch in and you can wiggle the rear of the trans to get it in. I used a regular floor jack to work the tansmission into the car in the past but finally broke down and bought a cheap trans jack from harbor freight.

Tyler

[Jeffvette]

After mounting to the engine stand we had some difficulty with the bolt for the torsional damper and it sure was tight. Removed the damper and Jeffvette was right, the broken piece that I found stuck to my magnet on the drain plug that caused me to pull the motor was in fact a piece of the key on the crankshaft. Jeff, you are the man! The weird thing is how the heck did the broken piece get into the oil pan. This is one reason why none of the folks that I asked or anyone from forums would guess this item. It even appears to be in there wrong to begin with.


:dancing

Craig, the only thing I can think of is somebody was in the motor at one point and tie they were trying to seat the key/remove it and they broke it, the piece fell into the front part of the motor and then continued it's journey underneath the oil pump and into the pan. Then they left it there knowing it would not go past the pick up screen. At least that is my theory.

How did the bolt look when you removed it? Was it discolored and marred on the hex head portion? And yes it's a bugger to get off. The bolt is torqued to 148 ftlbs and has loctite 262 on it.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Buy 2, 3 in bolts that fit and cut off the heads, put them in the block and use them as a rail to guide the trans up to the block. It makes it easy to see if the trans is level. If it does not go into the pilot bearing just brace the cluch in and you can wiggle the rear of the trans to get it in. I used a regular floor jack to work the tansmission into the car in the past but finally broke down and bought a cheap trans jack from harbor freight.

Tyler

Tyler,

Thanks, I did buy 3 bolts (I was Jerry's post about this too) to do this when I am ready and want to get a trans jack too. The regular floor jack was easy to pull out but going back it I can see how it will help.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

:dancing

Craig, the only thing I can think of is somebody was in the motor at one point and tie they were trying to seat the key/remove it and they broke it, the piece fell into the front part of the motor and then continued it's journey underneath the oil pump and into the pan. Then they left it there knowing it would not go past the pick up screen. At least that is my theory.

How did the bolt look when you removed it? Was it discolored and marred on the hex head portion? And yes it's a bugger to get off. The bolt is torqued to 148 ftlbs and has loctite 262 on it.

Jeff,

Thanks for your insight. I wish I had the rubbery piece to show you that looked exactly like the metal piece I sent you that form in the spot; even though it was not really funny I had to laugh. I think your theory is correct.

Here are pictures of the bolt. If I remember correctly it looked pretty virgin before we took it off and that is why we were wondering it happened but I can imagine that piece being in the pan for almost 20 years of oil change and not coming out with the oil at some point.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01399.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01401.jpg

It was so tough to break I had to stand and jump on the breaker bar; I did not have a pipe to place over for added leverage but should add that to my list of tools to have.

Does everyone's torsional damper look like hell with cracks in the rubber. Looks more like one off a C1. When do folks replace these?

Thanks again. I gotta verify where the cam timing is right now and then I'll pull of the heads; really gotta know how far off the driver's side bank is and what is causing it.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Well, the saga continues with the rebuild and no available piston rings for stock builds fit correctly. I have been fortunate that a fellow member has take off pistons, liners, rods, rings, etc. from a 95 crate motor and came to the rescue. In the meanwhile waiting to complete the motor the differential was dropped and local buddy is helping me build to rebuild the posi as soon as the clutch pack comes in and a local shop will do the 4:10 gears. Installed a drain plug and buying a tap to put in the rear cap ARP studs. I decided all rear bushings are being replaced with poly as well as getting cleaned up and polishing all the aluminim parts while I'm at it. The batwing is going to be the challenge and probably just clean up and coat to protect.


http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01639.jpg

I decided to use my Thanksgiving AM to finishing detailing the chassis since I don't want to put a nice, fresh motor into the oily, grimey engine bay. I love POR-15 and had already done the cleaning and prep work. For simplicity and not being a show car, I used a foam brush and it came out pretty good considering with their chassis black.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01637.jpg

Took off and cleaned the K braces and coated those inside and out too.

Will also clean up under the differential area and POR-15 the frame areas while back there. As depressing as it gets sometimes with the struggles for certain things with the ZR-1/LT5, I know I will be very pleased in the end and all the heartache will be worth it. Well, gotta get ready to head over to the parents for turkey.

[tomtom72]

Great (?) minds think alike, I spent turkey day AM putting another coat of wax on my Z!:mrgreen:

Craig, to quote those guys from speed channel....."it's shiny in the right places and not so shiny in the right places."
I think it looks like a pro restoration!:thumbsup:


:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Great (?) minds think alike, I spent turkey day AM putting another coat of wax on my Z!:mrgreen:

Craig, to quote those guys from speed channel....."it's shiny in the right places and not so shiny in the right places."
I think it looks like a pro restoration!:thumbsup:


:cheers:

Tom,

Thanks for always having good, positive things to say. Working on the Z is therapy for my mind and I get lost in another world. I'm sure you felt the same when putting on that coat of wax. I'm still full from last night's turkey, prime rib and all the other goodies. :handshak: I'll see what else I can get done on this long weekend.

[tomtom72]

:thumbsup: Craig!

I hear you about the quiet solitude of a garage/shop with just the car & you & your thoughts. It always gives me a lift....:hal:...anyone who is not a gear head would never understand!

For me wax is all I can get away with at my space, unless I want to start work after midnite & be done before 4AM....or work in my parking lot in daylight!

Hey man, enjoy the leftovers!:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Well, not quite related to the LT5 pull, but while doing the differential I could not help but clean up the 20 year old suspension and replace bushings while at it with Energy Suspension polyurethane.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01665.jpg

Used POR-15 chassis black after using marine clean and metal prep. I am still thinkin of how to make the ugly body underneath look nicer and insulate for sound and heat while at it; have not come up with a solution as of yet. Found a new rear shock, but need one more and will replace those at the same time.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01664.jpg

After removing the bushings from the sway bar end and modifying the end links for poly bushings it was also cleaned up and POR-15. Batwing was cleaned up with small wire brush to prep for POR-15 Stirling Silver; still have to marine clean and metal prep. Bolt heads for differential painted black with POR-15 too.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01661.jpg

The bushings were easier to remove than I thought it would be. The adjustment brackets will be cleaned up and painted with POR-15 Stirling Silver to match the differential housing and batwing.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01662.jpg

Test fitted the polyurethane bushings before going any further.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01668.jpg

Started some polishing with Blue Magic and these clean up quite nicely after only a few minutes of rubbing.

More to follow...............................

[flyin ryan]

Going to town, hey Craig :dancing. Looks good :).

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Going to town, hey Craig :dancing. Looks good :).

Thanks Ryan........where does it all end?

[Jeffvette]

Looking good Craig. It's amazing what you decide to do "while you are in there".

I've gotten caught up in some of that as well.

[tomtom72]

Yo Craig........WOW, nice detail job! That car is going to be the tits when you are dunn! :thumbsup:





:redface: fwiw, I would do the same thing if I were doing that job. It's just as Jeff said....the old rule of "while we're here"....and the punch list just keeps growing and before you know it you have dunn a frame on restoration!:sign10:

:cheers: Craig, you are the MAN! That car is going to look so "right"!

[A26B]

Great job Craig. I have a lot of the same work to do. Your results inspire me.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Jeff, Tom and Jerry,

Thanks for the comments and inspiration........it will surely keep me going. I have to try to do a little during the weeknights or this will take me forever. I really want to drive this Z again. :cheers:

Aloha,

[Hammer]

Reminds me of when I was painting an SS396 El Camino. Got to looking at the engine bay and how dirty it was and how it would look like crap if I didn't do something with it. Next thing I know the front end is off and the engines out. No other way to make it right.

Looking great Craig.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Reminds me of when I was painting an SS396 El Camino. Got to looking at the engine bay and how dirty it was and how it would look like crap if I didn't do something with it. Next thing I know the front end is off and the engines out. No other way to make it right.

Looking great Craig.

Thanks John. I hear ya and like Jeff said too, we all seem to get caught up in doing something while we're in there. I guess I will be happy when all is said and done even though this project is dragging out.:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01835.jpg

After cleaning the block several times and then with marine clean and metal prep, taped up to prepare to paint the block with POR-15 Stirling Silver.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01838.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01836.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01839.jpg

Finally ready for the installation of the liners!! :dancing

[tomtom72]

Now that's going to be a very sweeeeeet looking motor when it's dunn!:thumbsup:

It is soooooo clean....looks like the day it was born!:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Thanks guys, definitely not stock or NCRS ever again, but it feels good and as long as it runs as good it looks I will be happy. I'll be sure to start a new thread with the assembly. :cheers:

[BlackWidow#2]

Hi Craig, Where was the cam timing and what did you find to explain your low compression? Good luck with the rest of the project. George

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Hi Craig, Where was the cam timing and what did you find to explain your low compression? Good luck with the rest of the project. George

Hello George,

Unfortunately I don't know exactly how far off the timing was other than the pins when checking with factory setting method. I could not figure out the true cause of the low compression other than the fact that the entire driver's side bank was lower and to me related to the camshaft timing. Testing with vacuum and engine running did not give any specific indicators and appeared normal using Mightyvac procedures. Did not do a leak down test and was going to rebuild anyway at the time. I had decided to just get the heads reworked and replace the bottom half components so I could cover all basis and shoot for more HP at the same time with all the porting work. I will definitely degree the camshafts upon assembly or at a minimum verify all the settings to ensure within specs. Thanks for your wishes and I will need it. Just waiting on some piston rings since the bottom half assembly I bought arrived with all but one of the oil rings broken or damaged.:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I will leave it for Craig to answere your question regarding low compression. :cheers:

I do not think Craig degreed the camshaft but the camshaft pins did not drop in on one bank when he checked the camshaft timing. Craig suggested experts could tell from the picture. The pins either drop in or do not drop at all and it is impossible to tell without looking in the hole where the pins are placed in the camshaft to see how far the camshaft slot has rotated out of alignment for pin insertion. It is also hard to tell a few degrees off by just looking at the cams. http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9813&page=4 (post #33)

Pete thinks cams are retarded 4 degrees. http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9813 (post #8)

Marc Haibeck suggests there is about 3 deg of play (6 deg measured at the crankshaft) between the sprocket timing plate flat (venier plate) and camshaft flat (90'-92'). As one tightens the camshaft bolt you have to watch not to turn the camshaft in the timing plate (venier plate).

In other words, even if the camshaft pins drop in you can still be 6 deg off at the crankshaft.

This 3 deg of play (at the camshaft) actually allows you to set the camshaft timing at any angle within the 1.6 deg (at the camshaft) allowed by the pin holes in the venier plate and sprocket. This camshaft play is 3 deg (90-92 having single flats) and is reduced to 1.5 deg on 93s' (having double flats). http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1675&page=3 (post #23)


Thanks for your thought and tips. I'll take everything into consideration when reassembling.

[ZZZZZR1]

Thanks guys, definitely not stock or NCRS ever again, but it feels good and as long as it runs as good it looks I will be happy. I'll be sure to start a new thread with the assembly. :cheers:

:thumbsup: Way cool Craig and thank you so much for posting it!


Hope everthing goes well and keep us updated.


:cheers:

David