X-pipe advice wanted from those with B&B Exhaust with Headers

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Here is the deal. I recently installed the SW headers to my existing B & B exhaust with resonators. I have a temporary Napa flex pipe to connect the passenger side to the headers so I have to take it to a shop for a permanent pipe.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j86/hawaiizr1/DSC01087.jpg

I'm on the fence to replace the resonators with X pipe and wondering if anyone had experience with the before and after. Mike from B & B said it is $275 and wondering how much more resonance it will make, how better sounding and how much performance to be gained. After going to the Cars and Coffee yesterday I would like to make this Z sound a little more bad *** and it is somewhat quiet to me. I think it might be partially due to the insulation I laid under my carpet that keep it pretty quiet in the cabin, but even with the windows down I don't mind a little more growl from the LT5.

Thanks from the Aloha State.

[Demps]

Resonance is significantly worse with the X-pipe. My first B&B had the resonator. I replaced it with the X-pipe and liked the power. The noise got the best of my wife and I replaced it with a resonator. Well, I made a mistake so X-pipe went back in.

Here's the way I figure. I modified the car for the power mostly and sound next. I personally do no like the sound of the Corsa but do like the sound of the B&B. There have been some tests on the x-pipe swap (7-15 rwhp depending on level of modification). In the end, it is one of the cheapest horsepower mods. I really could tell the last time I took it out. I can tell the power the most at the top of the powerband. It adds to our car's powerband ramp-up when the secondaries come on line. Still annoying at 1800 and 3000 rpms but I like the way it helps the car.

Ted

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Resonance is significantly worse with the X-pipe. My first B&B had the resonator. I replaced it with the X-pipe and liked the power. The noise got the best of my wife and I replaced it with a resonator. Well, I made a mistake so X-pipe went back in.

Here's the way I figure. I modified the car for the power mostly and sound next. I personally do no like the sound of the Corsa but do like the sound of the B&B. There have been some tests on the x-pipe swap (7-15 rwhp depending on level of modification). In the end, it is one of the cheapest horsepower mods. I really could tell the last time I took it out. I can tell the power the most at the top of the powerband. It adds to our car's powerband ramp-up when the secondaries come on line. Still annoying at 1800 and 3000 rpms but I like the way it helps the car.

Ted

Ted,

Thank you very much for your detailed experience and advice; I really appreciate it. Since I'm not going bigger CI or twin turbos anytime soon, so I think I'll do it if I can gain a few HP. My wife won't complain and if she does she'll stay home more often. I am trying to build with performance in mine since I don't drive it often and when I do it must be fun and I'll tolerate the resonance. Sounds like the power is worth it. I was surprised that the headers did not make much different in sound and that is why I waited to see with the resonators in place first.

Now I have to figure out which X pipe brand to go with. I'm thinking still with the same manufacturer of the exhaust system, but I know there are a few out there.

Thanks again!:cheers:

[Gunny]

Craig,

Thought I would chime in. I was all set to go x-pipe and "something" else for mufflers, but finally decided to go back to Corsa. Yes, I've read all the pros/cons of Corsa and what I really would like is the BB sound with the Corsa resonance (lack of) and cabin sound ... ain't gonna happen. Anyway, I bought a Magnaflow 3" X-pipe and I've never installed it. The price was right, especially if I found that I later did not want it. It should fit OK, albeit a little tight. I think the x-pipes by BB & SW are built a little narrower and perhaps match up almost perfectly to the existing pipes already in place ... but they are considerably more expensive. Anyway, google the Magnaflow 3" and read the description & look at the part. If you think it would work for your application, and you want to give it a try, PM me. I haven't forgotten your help on the starter and I'll do my best to price it right for you. I have read/talked with a couple of owners who installed the Magnaflow x and they were pleased with the performance increase and at least one said it took away all resonance. I really doubt that part, but you never know.

George

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Craig,

Thought I would chime in. I was all set to go x-pipe and "something" else for mufflers, but finally decided to go back to Corsa. Yes, I've read all the pros/cons of Corsa and what I really would like is the BB sound with the Corsa resonance (lack of) and cabin sound ... ain't gonna happen. Anyway, I bought a Magnaflow 3" X-pipe and I've never installed it. The price was right, especially if I found that I later did not want it. It should fit OK, albeit a little tight. I think the x-pipes by BB & SW are built a little narrower and perhaps match up almost perfectly to the existing pipes already in place ... but they are considerably more expensive. Anyway, google the Magnaflow 3" and read the description & look at the part. If you think it would work for your application, and you want to give it a try, PM me. I haven't forgotten your help on the starter and I'll do my best to price it right for you. I have read/talked with a couple of owners who installed the Magnaflow x and they were pleased with the performance increase and at least one said it took away all resonance. I really doubt that part, but you never know.

George

Hey George,

Thanks for the offer and I'll definitely check on it and let you know. I might have regrets if and when I moved to the upper 48 where I might do a lot more driving and want a quiet system with the least resonance. I understand what you mean about going with the Corsas and everyone has different tastes are reason for selecting the systems they do. I guess I can do as others have done and try it out as the worst that could happen is I go back to the resonators. I still think about settling down in your neck of the woods where there are so many events to go to and it is a nice area too. If I can't find the info or get if from Magnaflow and you have time, please send me the center to center measurements of the openings on the Magnaflow X pipe and I could get an idea if mods will be necessary to just bolt on if possible. Thanks again and take care. Please hello to your wife for me too.

[Paul Workman]

Looking for a true 3" system to hang onto my SW headers, I first went to the Magnaflow system, but was disappointed to find it was not a true 3". So, I bought the SW X pipe and taking a page from Phil's book, I snagged a pair of the 3x18" chambered mufflers in lieu of the resonator. So, I end up with a true 3" system until the Magnaflow muffler which has a 2-1/2" inlet that splits into a pair of (approx) 2" tubes; one to each of the twin exhaust tips. (As it happens, 2x the square root of 2(inches) is just over 2.8" - pretty close to 3".)

With this setup I'm hoping to have my cake and eat it too; wanting the B&B performance, but really not wanting resonance in the cabin. Phil reported "no resonance" with this setup (all same except the mufflers), and we'll see what the dyno says about the performance in a couple weeks or so. I'll keep y'all posted. (BTW, the header to X pipe, the X pipe, the chambered mufflers, and even the MF mufflers are going to be "slip-fit". That way I can continue to "mix n match" to see what works best as things develop.

So far, excluding the headers, the SW tubing and X-pipe and the chambered mufflers total just under $500. Add another $100 for the links to the rear muffler and $200ish for mufflers of choice, and one has a 3" stainless no-cats system for around $800-$850 in materials.

One more thing...Like "chiming" a guitar string, it occurred to me that perhaps clamping a weight somewhere half way along the exhaust system might kill the resonance, or at least move it out of the normal cruising 1800-2000 rpm band. I mentioned this to Pete and he said he recalled seeing a Mustang setup with exactly that kind of weight attached to their pipes. It sure would be cheap enough to try.

Gotta run. More on this stuff later, I'm sure.

P.

[Z Factor]

My experience is much like the others. I went with the X pipe and you can definitely hear the difference. You get more resonance, but if you don't try to cruise between 1800 and 3000, you hardly notice it. You will also get a HP increase as mentioned, so as long as you want it to be louder, it will be a win win.

:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Looking for a true 3" system to hang onto my SW headers, I first went to the Magnaflow system, but was disappointed to find it was not a true 3". So, I bought the SW X pipe and taking a page from Phil's book, I snagged a pair of the 3x18" chambered mufflers in lieu of the resonator. So, I end up with a true 3" system until the Magnaflow muffler which has a 2-1/2" inlet that splits into a pair of (approx) 2" tubes; one to each of the twin exhaust tips. (As it happens, 2x the square root of 2(inches) is just over 2.8" - pretty close to 3".)

With this setup I'm hoping to have my cake and eat it too; wanting the B&B performance, but really not wanting resonance in the cabin. Phil reported "no resonance" with this setup (all same except the mufflers), and we'll see what the dyno says about the performance in a couple weeks or so. I'll keep y'all posted. (BTW, the header to X pipe, the X pipe, the chambered mufflers, and even the MF mufflers are going to be "slip-fit". That way I can continue to "mix n match" to see what works best as things develop.

So far, excluding the headers, the SW tubing and X-pipe and the chambered mufflers total just under $500. Add another $100 for the links to the rear muffler and $200ish for mufflers of choice, and one has a 3" stainless no-cats system for around $800-$850 in materials.

One more thing...Like "chiming" a guitar string, it occurred to me that perhaps clamping a weight somewhere half way along the exhaust system might kill the resonance, or at least move it out of the normal cruising 1800-2000 rpm band. I mentioned this to Pete and he said he recalled seeing a Mustang setup with exactly that kind of weight attached to their pipes. It sure would be cheap enough to try.

Gotta run. More on this stuff later, I'm sure.

P.

Paul,

Thanks for sharing and sound like you might have a winner there. It sounds like some perseverance pays off. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain all you have been going through. The killer for me here is the shipping for even an X pipe is $50 from B&B and everything really adds up quickly. I might have to just chill and live with what I have. I'm sure a lot of other folks with benefit from your hybrid system with all the research and thought behind it. :cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

My experience is much like the others. I went with the X pipe and you can definitely hear the difference. You get more resonance, but if you don't try to cruise between 1800 and 3000, you hardly notice it. You will also get a HP increase as mentioned, so as long as you want it to be louder, it will be a win win.

:cheers:

Jim,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Sound exactly like what should be expected so there will be no suprises. I appreciate your input and will defintely try to get the X pipe.

[Paul Workman]

Paul,

Thanks for sharing and sound like you might have a winner there. It sounds like some perseverance pays off. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain all you have been going through. The killer for me here is the shipping for even an X pipe is $50 from B&B and everything really adds up quickly. I might have to just chill and live with what I have. I'm sure a lot of other folks with benefit from your hybrid system with all the research and thought behind it. :cheers:

The SW X pipe was $275 + S&H, FWIW. One could have one made from aluminized steel piping by a competent exhaust shop for less - mebby 1/2 that. I considered that route, but the shops around me didn't have mandrel bending, so that would put me back into the 2-1/2" chokes at the bends (again). That fact, along with the physics unknown introduced by a "random" length to the choke points, and the fact they would not be stainless, the convenience and "what I wanted in the first place" won me over. (The cost will only hurt once. After that it is maintenance free grinning for ever!:dancing)

P.

[UKZR1]

My 368 runs with Jeal headers no cats and b&b (early version) with x-pipe

It's 106db a few yards behind the car. It's loud in the car too - might even take some ear plugs for the drive to le mans this year just to give our ears a rest on the way down.

It's a long time since I swapped to the x pipe but I recall saying to people that it made it louder out back but better in the cabin. I wouldn't loose the noise for anything though.

How many Z's in Hawaii? We hope to be comming out next year for our 10th. Wedding anniversary (we got wed. by Diamond head in 2000)

[tf95ZR1]

I also vote for the B&B X pipe. There was a definite (on dyno) HP increase over my old resonator, and I think it sounds much better! Resonance is at 1800 to 2100 RPM which I feel is no big deal. And your LT5 will get you through this quickly!
I specifically went with the B&B because the "X" is very smooth and clean. I saw others which were sharper and less smooth.
Not cheap but I'm glad I did it!

[HAWAIIZR-1]

The SW X pipe was $275 + S&H, FWIW. One could have one made from aluminized steel piping by a competent exhaust shop for less - mebby 1/2 that. I considered that route, but the shops around me didn't have mandrel bending, so that would put me back into the 2-1/2" chokes at the bends (again). That fact, along with the physics unknown introduced by a "random" length to the choke points, and the fact they would not be stainless, the convenience and "what I wanted in the first place" won me over. (The cost will only hurt once. After that it is maintenance free grinning for ever!:dancing)

P.

Paul,

Thanks again for the advice and information; sounds like the way to go, especially if a direct bolt up to B&B.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

My 368 runs with Jeal headers no cats and b&b (early version) with x-pipe

It's 106db a few yards behind the car. It's loud in the car too - might even take some ear plugs for the drive to le mans this year just to give our ears a rest on the way down.

It's a long time since I swapped to the x pipe but I recall saying to people that it made it louder out back but better in the cabin. I wouldn't loose the noise for anything though.

How many Z's in Hawaii? We hope to be comming out next year for our 10th. Wedding anniversary (we got wed. by Diamond head in 2000)

Thanks for the reply and well considered. Wow, sounds like it's quite loud if ear plugs are considered.

I know there are a few Z here in Hawaii, but none reply. I know there is one on the island of Maui, but no friendship developed. A guy I met has two the next street over, but has not showed them to me (1990 and 1995) both are just in mothball storage with under 2K miles if I remember correctly. I had a white 91 that I sold and not sure where it is since I don't see it on the road and the guy was trying to sell it. Cool about your wedding, I had mine at Kahala Hotel and Resort so not far from where yours was. Look me up if you come this way; I guess you might not want to talk or see Zs during your wedding anniversary.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I also vote for the B&B X pipe. There was a definite (on dyno) HP increase over my old resonator, and I think it sounds much better! Resonance is at 1800 to 2100 RPM which I feel is no big deal. And your LT5 will get you through this quickly!
I specifically went with the B&B because the "X" is very smooth and clean. I saw others which were sharper and less smooth.
Not cheap but I'm glad I did it!

Thanks for the reply and input. You are probably right about going with B&B to ensure the best fit and ease of install. I just might have to pop for theirs, regardless of the $50 shipping charge to the islands.

[UKZR1]

check out http://corvetteclips.co.uk/site%20pi...rstmictest.mov (http://corvetteclips.co.uk/site%20pics/zr1zorstmictest.mov)

That will show what it sounds like.

It's a shame you know of other cars out there but the owners don't get involved and you don't see them out and about.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

check out http://corvetteclips.co.uk/site%20pi...rstmictest.mov (http://corvetteclips.co.uk/site%20pics/zr1zorstmictest.mov)

That will show what it sounds like.

It's a shame you know of other cars out there but the owners don't get involved and you don't see them out and about.

Thanks for sharing.....it sounds awesome. Yeah, with a limited production Corvette like the ZR-1 and on an island you would expect that the few would be able to get together. As you know, we are on our own to work on these too.

Aloha!

[UKZR1]

It's much like that over here too. Jeal and another guy in the Corvette trade over here estimate 30 or so ZR-1's in the UK. I know of 11 cars and out of that only about half of us keep in touch and share knowledge etc. Strangely they are the ones you see on the forums. I run an ad in the UK Corvette Club magazine advertising the registry but have only ever been contacted through it once. I've been contacted through my site a few times by guys on mainland Europe and that's about it. Guess some people like to keep to themselves. Shame as the enthusiasm of fellow owners is a large part of owning a ZR-1.
We will look you up when we are out there. My wife is into cars and bikes too so won't mind in the least ;)

[HAWAIIZR-1]

It's much like that over here too. Jeal and another guy in the Corvette trade over here estimate 30 or so ZR-1's in the UK. I know of 11 cars and out of that only about half of us keep in touch and share knowledge etc. Strangely they are the ones you see on the forums. I run an ad in the UK Corvette Club magazine advertising the registry but have only ever been contacted through it once. I've been contacted through my site a few times by guys on mainland Europe and that's about it. Guess some people like to keep to themselves. Shame as the enthusiasm of fellow owners is a large part of owning a ZR-1.
We will look you up when we are out there. My wife is into cars and bikes too so won't mind in the least ;)


Okay, now I don't feel so bad if I can't make contact with the 4 or so that are here in Hawaii. I think networking is a powerful thing, especially with the limited resources of the ZR-1. Please shoot me PM or email when you get close to arrival and I'll make plans to meet like I did with the guy from Japan. If they wife does not mind we have a lot of Corvette events here on a regular basis. I sure would love to visit your part of the world one day too.

[Pete]

I have Jeal headers,x-pipe,B&B old design.

It sounds like it means all business.

I try to keep the RPM's either bellow or above the resonance.

Pete

Watch my video below.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I have Jeal headers,x-pipe,B&B old design.

It sounds like it means all business.

I try to keep the RPM's either bellow or above the resonance.

Pete

Watch my video below.

Pete,

Thanks for the advice and for sharing that video. That is awesome and well worth any resonance.....bad a**:thumbsup:

[UKZR1]

Sounding good Pete and some good runs. Are you running 4.10's? I love the sound of the B&B's, well worth the resonance in my opinion.

My B&B is also the old style. Is there much/any difference with the new style one?

[Paul Workman]

check out http://corvetteclips.co.uk/site%20pi...rstmictest.mov (http://corvetteclips.co.uk/site%20pics/zr1zorstmictest.mov)

That will show what it sounds like.

It's a shame you know of other cars out there but the owners don't get involved and you don't see them out and about.

Nice clip. Thanks for sharing. It sounds just about perfect (to me!).

P.

[Paul Workman]

Sounding good Pete and some good runs. Are you running 4.10's? I love the sound of the B&B's, well worth the resonance in my opinion.

My B&B is also the old style. Is there much/any difference with the new style one?

I think I can answer that; Pete's Z is running the 3.45 (stock ratio) rear gear. The local "FBI" has (over many a pizza n brews) discussed the ZR-1's stock 3.45 vs. changing to the 3.73, 3.90, and the 4.10 trade-offs (adnauseum)

The issue is, Pete's rpms are running "over the top" in 3rd at 129.xx mph and prolly not making enough torque at those Rs to wring much more out of that setup. The 10s loom, and some are thinking the 4.10s might get Pete's 60 foot time down a few tenths more, and still result in a 3-4 shift in time to wring out net gain between quicker 60 foot, the time lost in the shift and the added torque (by way of returning to the "sweet spot" in the rpm band). It is an interesting question, and some testing is going to be needed. I'm sure Pete will jump in "any moment".

Fascinating - this drag racing stuff!

:cheers:

P.

[jonszr1]

a couple of my friends an i have been mulling over that ? 410s could be better if one goes to a 16in full slick tire . reason being that the larger sidewall will give better bite creating a better 60 foot . mand h makes a 325x45x 17 that my kids tried on my white car last week that showed some promise. taking the car to 11.71 @121.68mph with 60fts being 1.61,1.55, 1.51. also removing the cats helped some . pete might try that tire with the 3.45s which at 28in tall drop his rpms to a better place . some of the improvement on my car might be due to a little younger driver:mrgreen:as i hate to admit .

[jonszr1]

oppps to add. coreys fine tune up on my car has helped a bunch too

[jonszr1]

also using the da calculator on drag times makes the corrected time 11.35@125.64 as the da that night was 2600 ft.

[Pete]

Sounding good Pete and some good runs. Are you running 4.10's? I love the sound of the B&B's, well worth the resonance in my opinion.

My B&B is also the old style. Is there much/any difference with the new style one?


Like Paul mentioned,on those runs it had 3.45.
I have installed 4.10's last week for BG gathering in hopes to getting better 60ft for a 10 second pass.

At BG ran 11.1 @ 128 with 1.59 60ft it was hot and humid plus the extra shift does not help.


Not sure, i think the new B&B's have more baffeling,some have what looked like to be restrictor plates at the tips.
B&B has been making changes thru the years.

Pete

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Good info and thanks for sharing. I can't wait to get the 4:10s in, especially for the mostly city driving I do around here. Now if they would hurry up and build the darn race track.

[Paul Workman]

I hadn't heard about the 4.10s as of last week, or the 11.1 in warm humid conditions. Pete, I gotta think "you're there" (10s) with the 4.10s when you consider your 11.09 run was at 40ºF last fall! Anywayz....We'll have a big celebration when you crack the "10 second" barrier!

P.

[Jagdpanzer]

Like Paul mentioned,on those runs it had 3.45.
I have installed 4.10's last week for BG gathering in hopes to getting better 60ft for a 10 second pass.

At BG ran 11.1 @ 128 with 1.59 60ft it was hot and humid plus the extra shift does not help.


Not sure, i think the new B&B's have more baffeling,some have what looked like to be restrictor plates at the tips.
B&B has been making changes thru the years.

Pete

Hey Pete,
Have you had a chance to try out the 4.10s again at your local strip with the new clutch?

[jonszr1]

pete you might consider the m and h tire i bought recently.it sa 325x45x17 thats 28in tall and is designed for an 11in rim . the first time out my 60fts went from 1.866 with the et street 315x35x17 to a best of1.51 with all runs being in the 1.5s white car broke way into the 11.s best of 1171. from a best of 12.24. this tire is like glue .also you dont have to do a long burnout to get them to hook . taller and softer sidewall is the key .

[Pete]

I have not taken her to the track yet.
I put in new clutch last week i'd like to put some miles on her before i take her to the track.
I'm hoping to make out to the track in a couple of weeks.

Brad,Hoosier Drag Radials work great, i got a 1.59 from them and i think there's more into them.

Pete

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Glad to hear more info about gears and recommended tires. I have to get my 4:10s in and will want some new tires for my stock wheel for drag. Thanks for all the great info.:handshak: