Header install tips and tricks??

[-=Jeff=-]

Okay, my powder coated parts are suppose to be here today but UPS dropped the ball and I doubt I will see them until Monday

So, I might have time either tomorrow or sunday.. I am thinking of tackling the headers.. Brake booster it removed on the drivers side which may help.

I am looking for any/all tips and tricks to help..

the Z is sitting on a Kwiklift right now. if I dont have to remove the tires it might be better, but I will manage if that needs to be done

so open for any help

thanks

[tomtom72]

:o I know I shouldn't speak to this because my headers are still in my living room, in the box!:redface:

....but when I was doing my shocks & had the wheel well liner panels out I was marveling at how I could actually see the exhaust manifold flange and how many bolts the factory couldn't get in!

The dipstick tube bracket may not work in the OE configuration.
Watch the steering shaft clearance.
Extensions for the O2 sensors.
Wrap the clutch hyd line from heat, and wrap any electricial lines from the heat, my thinking is the heat shields are now gone??:dontknow:
yea, pretty feeble! That's all I've come up with except for fitting the rest of the exhaust system to the collectors but I think that has to be done one a case by case deal.

:happy1:

[Jagdpanzer]

Here are a couple of web sites I found useful when installing my headers last summer:

http://www.bcvettes.org/

http://www.pnwzr1.net/PNWZR1.htm

I can't imagin removing the stock exhaust or installing headers without taking wheel well liner panels out.

[jonszr1]

done 3 sets ,the hardest part is trying not to cut your hands on the heatshields when taking off the stk system . these are some of the easiest headers i have ever installed .just have some bengay for sore muscles from contorting :mrgreen:

[Jagdpanzer]

Be sure to clean the head bolt holes out very well so the new header bolts turn in as easy as possible. I used Stage 8 header bolts:

http://www.stage8.com/products_lhb.html (http://www.stage8.com/products_lhb.html)

However, I did not feel it was necessary to install the locking tabs that came with the bolts. Summit has listing for a set of 32 bolts specifically for ZR-1:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=STG%2D8908&autoview=sku

The small 12 point 8 mm head provided a little extra clearance in the harder to get at holes.

[-=Jeff=-]

Be sure to clean the head bolt holes out very well so the new header bolts turn in as easy as possible. I used Stage 8 header bolts:

http://www.stage8.com/products_lhb.html (http://www.stage8.com/products_lhb.html)

However, I did not feel it was necessary to install the locking tabs that came with the bolts. Summit has listing for a set of 32 bolts specifically for ZR-1:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=STG%2D8908&autoview=sku

The small 12 point 8 mm head provided a little extra clearance in the harder to get at holes.


I have gaskets, bolts and oil Dipstick bracket from Jeff vette..

Which side is more of a PITA?

[XfireZ51]

...

I can't imagine removing the stock exhaust or installing headers without taking wheel well liner panels out.

Agreed. :thumbsup:

[Jagdpanzer]

Which side is more of a PITA?

If this your first go at it like me, it will be the first side you tackle regardless if its port or starboard. Second side will be a lot easier due to what you learned on the first side. With that said, in my case I would have to say the driver's side is a bit more difficult all factors being equal because of the steering shaft.

[GOLDCYLON]

The inner wheel panels need to come out of the way without a doubt. And the dipstick tube issue has been covered unless your running JEALS :mrgreen:. Not sure on Watsons buts Dom may have some input on that since hes running them. Can we assume these are stainless works headers Jeff? I only ask as you did not say.

Without a doubt you will need O2 extenders for at least one side maybe both. And the drivers side is the bear due to the steering shaft as the turn.

[Ccmano]

I had Al do it... worth every penny:)
H
:cheers:

[-=Jeff=-]

The inner wheel panels need to come out of the way without a doubt. And the dipstick tube issue has been covered unless your running JEALS :mrgreen:. Not sure on Watsons buts Dom may have some input on that since hes running them. Can we assume these are stainless works headers Jeff? I only ask as you did not say.

Without a doubt you will need O2 extenders for at least one side maybe both. And the drivers side is the bear due to the steering shaft as the turn.

Sure you can ask.. they are 2" Primary Watsons..

Thanks

[Gunny]

I installed SW headers but found this write up to be very helpful
Jeal Header Install (http://www.zr1netregistry.com/jealheader.htm)

I did not use the original bolts but went with stainless ... bought a complete set. If you are installing SW headers, study the bolt holes carefully ... you might want to "practice" putting a bolt into each hole. There's either 1 or 2 that you have to "angle" the bolt to get it started which I found impossible to do once I had the headers in place on the engine. i.e. I didn't get all bolts in which isn't absolutely necessary. Notice how many bolts were used in the OEM manifold ... the factory didn't use all the bolts that could have been used. Anyway, if you want to have a bolt in each hole, you will need to determine the tight fitting ones & probably get the bolt in place before you attach the header to the engine. This will probably take more than 2 hands which wasn't an option with me. I did the whole thing unassisted.

A lift would have made the job much easier ... again, not necessary, but I really wished for one.

The O2 connector on the right side is a B****. Impossible to reach the connector unless you are a 4 year old midget with small strong hands. I ended up snaking the connector from the engine harness out toward the front of the engine & adding an extension that was routed around everything back to the right side O2 sensor. Be sure to tie it up & insulate if necessary. The harness will MELT if it touches the header and it doesn't take very long to do this damage ... don't ask how I know. :redface:

Good luck ... you're going to love the end result. Headers really help the LT5 come alive.

George

[GOLDCYLON]

Sure you can ask.. they are 2" Primary Watsons..

Thanks


Talk to Dominic XfireZ51, hes the last person who installed a set of Watsons that I am aware of. Doms usually a wealth of info and im sure he might have a few pointers for you Jeff. :hello:

[LGAFF]

I think AL did Doms...Jeff and Dom live in the same town.

[-=Jeff=-]

I think AL did Doms...Jeff and Dom live in the same town.

Yeah Al did it Dom helped and burnt his hand..

[zr1don]

I installed SSW headers a couple months ago. As previously stated, removed front tires & inner wheel wells. I also removed engine mount bolts, one side at a time & jacked up the engine on that side to get a little more room. I also moded the dipstick bracket to get it to work with with the SSW headers. Be carefull when you removethe dipstick from the oil pan, it is easy to lose the seal the that seals the dipstick to the pan. (kinda like an o-ring seal)

Good luck witht the install!!!!

[-=Jeff=-]

How many little screws on each side for the HEat shield?

I see 4 ont he driver side.. that it?

[-=Jeff=-]

1 Down, 1 to go

Driver side is removed and Header is installed

I did not remove rear part of fender well, having the Brake Booster out helped a ton..

and the ROOM now.. WOW..

next header later today or this week..

[blackjack]

dont forget to coat your bolts with some sort of sealant or anti-seize,as
aluminum and stainless dont fare well together ,especially in harsh environment
bj

[-=Jeff=-]

Passenger header in but not tight yet.. I think the end of my dipstick tube is goobered up so I Want to look for a replacement

know of a source?

[GOLDCYLON]

Driver side is removed and the ROOM now.. WOW..

Yeah thats what I thought too Jeff, lots of room and you can now see the steering assembly rod clearly.

[GOLDCYLON]

Passenger header in but not tight yet.. I think the end of my dipstick tube is goobered up so I Want to look for a replacement

know of a source?


I dont think Jerry made these so Im going have to say Jeff Flint would be a best resource bet.

[-=Jeff=-]

Thanks GC.. I will wait to catch Jeff on IM or when he gets back home

[GOLDCYLON]

Thanks GC.. I will wait to catch Jeff on IM or when he gets back home


Im sure he has the new seal you may need and can FIND you the tube if its available anywhere in the system. He just found me a replacement dipstick.

[-=Jeff=-]

Im sure he has the new seal you may need and can FIND you the tube if its available anywhere in the system. He just found me a replacement dipstick.

Oh I have a new seal.. just need the tube :mrgreen:

[Kb7tif]

How many little screws on each side for the HEat shield?

I see 4 ont he driver side.. that it?


How many screws is there?? What MM

[-=Jeff=-]

How many screws is there?? What MM

I think 4 or 5 QTY , size is 8mm or 7mm I forget

the heat shields on the manifolds themselves will not need to come off, but the Cat Heat shields will

[Kb7tif]

:cheers:

[rhipsher]

Been there done that. And the worst manifold bolt to remove is the one on the driver side right above where the steering linkege goes into the rubber piece that connects to the steering rack. You can't reach it with your hands or even see it without a swivel mirror. I used a gear wrench on it and only having enough room to turn maybe 10 degrees at a time with 15 to 20 revolutions to go. But thats the only one that really was a problem. It took me 1 1/2 hours to remove it. My hands took a beating on that one.

[Paul Workman]

Like someone said, no matter which side you do first, that will be the harder one. (Ya wind up learning a lot about it on the first one!) It took me a day to get the driver's side off, but that includes 3, 20-mile round trips to town (I live in the country) for various tools I didn't have or had lost at some point.

In the end, I didn't need to remove the drivers side wheel panels, but definitely DID need to on the passenger's side. No big deal at all tho.

I spent a lot of time trying to get the shields out on the first one, but realized on the second one that the two clam-shell pieces don't have to come out - just loosened so they can be moved out of the way to access the bolts.

My tool list is pretty short.

10mm short socket, 3/8" drive
10mm short socket, 1/4" drive
8mm short socket, 1/4" drive
6" 1/4 drive ratchet handle w/ socket locking feature
various 1/4" drive extensions 2", 4", 6"
3" and a 12" 3/8" drive extensions
6" standard screw driver
a telescoping magnet tool retriever (I drop stuff and it always finds nooks and crannies to hide in!)
10, 13, and a 15mm open-end wrench with a ratchet box end on the opposite end of the wrench(!)
swivels (knuckles) for both the 1/4 and 3/8 drives (and tape them so they stay relatively straight and don't flop around)
Some penetrating oil (WD40) for rusted shield bolts, etc.
Never Seize (for the head bolts)
Brake cleaner (to wash the dirt and grit out of the head bolt holes)
A couple drop lights and I found a little LED "flashlight" came in handy to illuminate a few elusive header bolts (e.g. the front-top bolt on the passenger side).

A lift might have been nice, but frankly, I found myself alternating from topside to under quite a bit. Being able to eliminate the trips would have helped a lot (and part of the solution on the second one too, I might add.).

I didn't have to remove the center section of the A.I.R. piping on the driver's side, but did have to on the passenger's side. In retrospect, I would say the passenger side was harder to do - had to remove the fender panels and that center section of the A.I.R. piping, and had to work around the loosened heat shields (they wouldn't come out).

One thing is for certain...Installing the new (SW) headers was a dream...So much room! I had no clearance issues with my SW headers - including the infamous steering shaft. Easiest headers I ever installed, I think. (Tho I did not install all the bolts as the curve of the pipes prevented it in a few cases. Besides, there were several omitted from the factory as well. I just installed as many as I could - which in the end was more than the factory did.)

I WILL need to round up an O2 extension for the passenger side for the SW headers. I intended to install bungs on the top of the SWs, but had some issues and ended up using the port and starbord bungs that came w/ the headers...Oh, well.

Not a bad job - installing the headers - just a "bit" more tedious than some, and would definitely be easier the second time around!

P.

[Kb7tif]

Posts appreciated. Much thanks.

[ScottZ95ZR1]

I pulled the exhaust and started on the passenger side. Got the shields and right cat off and stopped after the damn clip on the EGR tube into the exhaust manifold whooped on me for a while. I think Nick mentioned prying it off with a big screwdriver in his How-To write up but I had no joy with that. Hope someone can help me out here?
I also broke the clip on the engine side of the O2S connector - that thing sure was brittle as I barely applied any force and it snapped.

I read more than one post in which guys made multiple trips to buy more tools. Roger that - I'm another. I also read the driver's side is the more difficult. I will see what it has in store for me if I ever get the damn EGR tube out and the easy manifold off.

[Jeffvette]

Got the shields and right cat off and stopped after the damn clip on the EGR tube into the exhaust manifold whooped on me for a while. I think Nick mentioned prying it off with a big screwdriver in his How-To write up but I had no joy with that.

Yea, the clips suck. Basically it's a metal band that is clipped and has a little trapezoid spot. That is where you need to insert a screw driver and open it up at. You can also use a set of cutting dykes.

[Dynomite]

Removing the original exhaust system is a lot easier if you have a 3/8 inch swivel, a set of flex metric ratchet wrenches, and a set of 3/8 inch wobble extensions :thumbsup:

A set of 3/8 inch metric sockets and 3/8 inch socket wrench is obvious :sign10:

I use the wobble extensions on almost everything.

Sears has them all......along with the 17 mm transmission plug allen wrench :D

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6655&page=7

[ScottZ95ZR1]

Yea, the clips suck. Basically it's a metal band that is clipped and has a little trapezoid spot. That is where you need to insert a screw driver and open it up at. You can also use a set of cutting dykes.

Thanks Jeff. Then I may just go right to the dykes and cut the biatch.
Appreciate your feedback and also for your hooking me up with all the parts needed for the install. :thumbsup:

[ScottZ95ZR1]

Removing the original exhaust system is a lot easier if you have a 3/8 inch swivel, a set of flex metric ratchet wrenches, and a set of 3/8 inch wobble extensions :thumbsup:

A set of 3/8 inch metric sockets and 3/8 inch socket wrench is obvious :sign10:

I use the wobble extensions on almost everything.

Sears has them all......along with the 17 mm transmission plug allen wrench :D

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6655&page=7

Thanks :thumbsup: Caught this in the other thread when I was getting ready to start and it certainly made the exhaust an easy chore.

[Kb7tif]

Little cool out there is it not?
The work will be very satisfying when complete. Piece of cake :)

[z proud]

It's been a few years with my SW headers, no coating, no header wrap, sat in stop and go traffic for up to an hour, with marks chip it never gets much past 210 or so on summer days 80 to 100 degree heat, enjoy them,

[orthodoct]

There is controversy on the Registry regarding the length of Stage 8 bolts to use. I realize that the flange on my new SW headers will not be the same thickness as the stock manifolds, or will it? The Stage 8 kit for the ZR1 is 8mm x 1.25, 30 mm length. Dynomite mentioned using 8905 (20 ea, 8mm x 1.25 x 25 mm) and 8mm x 1.25 x 22mm which I can't find ANYWHERE (the 22mm ones). Having never done this before, are the bolt lengths different depending on where they go, or am I making a "mountain out of a molehill". Will the bolts supplied by SW suffice? I am planning on sending the headers to Jet Hot for ceramic coating. Seems as if SW doesn't do it. Sounds like it really knocks down underhood temperatures and cauterized adjacent structures (the surgeon in me coming out!) Thanks, guys. INCREDIBLE SITE! I have completely rebuilt the top end of my LT5 due to ruined injectors due to lousy E10 gas, PCV leak with lots of oil, replaced fuel pump assembly due to same, installed Elite Engineering catch can. Lots of solvent, q tips and paper towels. Bought a parts washer and was a very good investment. Any advice would be very appreciated. Jerry Downey and I have become great friends. He is an incredible resource and a patient, tolerant man who never seeems to tire of my questions. How do I become a member?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!
orthodoct

[Dynomite]

Dynomite mentioned using 8905 (20 ea, 8mm x 1.25 x 25 mm) and 8mm x 1.25 x 22mm which I can't find ANYWHERE (the 22mm ones). Having never done this before, are the bolt lengths different depending on where they go, or am I making a "mountain out of a molehill".

The bolts are not different lengths depending on where they go. Either length bolt is fine...just more selection if one is out of stock.

LT5 Summit Racing (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FMS-M-9432-A54/) M-9432-A54
LT5 8mm x 1.25 The underhead length is 22 mm or about .87 inches
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/norm/fms-m-9432-a54_w_m.jpg
LT5 Summit Racing (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STG-8905/) 8905
LT5 8mm x 1.25 The underhead length is 25 mm or about .98 inches

installed Elite Engineering catch can.

Here is an installation of Elite Engineering Catch Can :p

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/LT5/OilCatch1.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite8/e8dd46ab-590f-440a-9e9f-84ea7fa458bd.jpg[/URL]http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll142/dynomite007/Dynomite8/9b019d33-242f-42f6-8a40-962865cbefc8.jpg

[efnfast]

When I did my headers, the stage 8 bolts, the clips would not fit into the bolts. Turned into a waste of money for the bolts.

[orthodoct]

Thank you, Dynomite! About how many bolts total can you get in there? I know that there are potentially 32, but from what I have read, that is impossible.
orthodoct

[ZZZZZR1]

There is controversy on the Registry regarding the length of Stage 8 bolts to use. I realize that the flange on my new SW headers will not be the same thickness as the stock manifolds, or will it? The Stage 8 kit for the ZR1 is 8mm x 1.25, 30 mm length. Dynomite mentioned using 8905 (20 ea, 8mm x 1.25 x 25 mm) and 8mm x 1.25 x 22mm which I can't find ANYWHERE (the 22mm ones). Having never done this before, are the bolt lengths different depending on where they go, or am I making a "mountain out of a molehill". Will the bolts supplied by SW suffice? I am planning on sending the headers to Jet Hot for ceramic coating. Seems as if SW doesn't do it. Sounds like it really knocks down underhood temperatures and cauterized adjacent structures (the surgeon in me coming out!) Thanks, guys. INCREDIBLE SITE! I have completely rebuilt the top end of my LT5 due to ruined injectors due to lousy E10 gas, PCV leak with lots of oil, replaced fuel pump assembly due to same, installed Elite Engineering catch can. Lots of solvent, q tips and paper towels. Bought a parts washer and was a very good investment. Any advice would be very appreciated. Jerry Downey and I have become great friends. He is an incredible resource and a patient, tolerant man who never seeems to tire of my questions. How do I become a member?

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!
orthodoct

Couldn't agree more, Jerry is first class! :saluting:

Want to join the club?

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/HowtoJoin.aspx

Online or mail in a form

Welcome to the brotherhood!

:cheers:

David

[orthodoct]

Beautiful engine; I have spent several hours reviewing your posts/pictures.
Impressive!

[Dynomite]

Thank you, Dynomite! About how many bolts total can you get in there? I know that there are potentially 32, but from what I have read, that is impossible.
orthodoct

It varies a bit but if you get say 12 each side you should be good (you actually could get by with 8 if they are staggered and you have at least one on each end). More is better. And.....try not to eliminate two adjacent bolts on the top or bottom row.

EXHAUST SYSTEM
Post 45 - Exhaust System Replace with Headers (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564059)
Post 46 - Exhaust Headers Locking Bolt Tricks (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564063)
Post 47 - Installing the LT5 with Headers TIPS (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564065)

[secondchance]

I have a 94 which has dowels instead of bolt holes on top left and right leaving 14 bolt holes per head. I was able to get bolts in all but one - 27 bolts. I used Stage 8 bolts and find it necessary to re-tighten these every so often due to bolts backing out. I had a discussion with Jim (QB93) today about cutting long end off of locking tabs that came with Stage 8 bolt kit and installing locking tabs as many as possible with the car on the lift. I think cutting long end off or grinding it down will allow it to slip on against the header runners and function as intended.
I will post up once we try this.

[orthodoct]

Dear David:
Trying to join as we speak!

Thank you!
TY

[mike100]

I reused the stock fasteners with the long spacer where they still fit, but I also ended up ordering a bag of these from Fastenal:
https://www.fastenal.com/web/products/details/0161882

https://img4.fastenal.com/productimages/19807_hr4c.jpg

13mm head with serrated flange head. Works well in a few positions where a box end wrench or 13mm swivels can grab them. In regards to the lock bolts, I didn't have that feature but retightened the hardware about 4 times before the gaskets shrunk and took a set. The have been tight every time I have checked since. I probably have 10 or 11 fasteners per side- much more than the stock 7. either way no problems.

[orthodoct]

Glad to be a member of the brotherhood!
TY

[orthodoct]

Amazon and Summit both offer the Stage 8 bolts, 32 in a package specifically for the ZR1, but they are 30mm long. Are they too long or will that work? Substantial price break as compared to ordering two packages of 25mm (such as 8906)??
Thanks everyone for their help. Will post some pictures once I am through with this project. I learned a few tricks that I think would be helpful to the group. I also am a ham radio operator and have restored a lot of tube ham gear (Collins) so wiring and soldering is not foreign to me.
TY

[secondchance]

Amazon and Summit both offer the Stage 8 bolts, 32 in a package specifically for the ZR1, but they are 30mm long. Are they too long or will that work? Substantial price break as compared to ordering two packages of 25mm (such as 8906)??
Thanks everyone for their help. Will post some pictures once I am through with this project. I learned a few tricks that I think would be helpful to the group. I also am a ham radio operator and have restored a lot of tube ham gear (Collins) so wiring and soldering is not foreign to me.
TY

30 mm is correct. Typically 2-3 have to be cut to 15-20 mm to clear the runner and start the thread.

[orthodoct]

Thanks, secondchance!
TY

[Dynomite]

30 mm is correct. Typically 2-3 have to be cut to 15-20 mm to clear the runner and start the thread.

The stock manifold bolts with spacer on 90' show 1 inch or 25mm of thread beyond spacer. The stock manifold bolts show about 5/8 or 16mm of thread beyond manifold flange when installed. Given stock manifold flange is relatively same thickness as header flange a 25mm stage8 bolt would engage head also about 5/8 in (16mm).

LT5 Summit Racing (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STG-8905/) 8905
LT5 8mm x 1.25 The underhead length is 25 mm or about .98 inches

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/stg-8905_w.jpg

[secondchance]

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/stg-8905_w.jpg

Orthodoc,

To clarify - I think once I trim off long, triangular part of the tab, I can put the tab on and clip so the bolt won't turn.

[orthodoct]

I found out that Stainless Works does do ceramic coating, but it is not listed as an option on their website. Have to call them. Turnaround time for the headers, including coating is 4-5 weeks, so I guess that I know what I am getting for Christmas! Thank for the info, guys.
TY