Car back to running like sh!#

[LGAFF]

Car ran great Sunday, today shudders above 2500.

less than 40 miles on new

pumps
coils-Wells/Autzone
fuel pump


Place your bets.... Car runs at low rpm and idles fine.

[-=Jeff=-]

Bad gas? No gas? :sign10:

shudders how about 2500??

Change plugs and Wires yet?


Maybe loose nut behind wheel? :sign10:

[jonszr1]

sorry to hear its being a piece of sh!t. but if i had to bet ,i would say iyou could have a vacume leak in the secondary spyders .ie one of the ball ck valves leaking.or maybe some trash is clogging a injector .hope you find it .

[LGAFF]

I changed the fuel filter also......and yes it is on correctly!

[GOLDCYLON]

Block the air horn with a flexable folder while running and tell us what happens next Lee.

[LGAFF]

Idles too good for a vac leak.

[GOLDCYLON]

Idles too good for a vac leak.


Injector?

[LGAFF]

Checked fuel filter is on correctly.....yes there is gas in the car smartass, fuel pressure jumps to 52lbs when switched on then drops to 43lbs.

I am thinking my new autozone coils might suck.

I am not getting any codes.

[GOLDCYLON]

How long does the presure hold after shutting it down?

[LGAFF]

steady at 43 for hours

[LGAFF]

Haven't had a problem with this car in years until today. The car had been sitting for awhile so I decided it was time to break it out of the garage and take it for a spin. We made a 10 mile trip and the car was perfect, even while spanking a Mustang on the highway. After sitting for 30 minutes, we hopped back in and the car immediately had a problem.

At idle, it's perfect, at highway cruise, it's perfect. At any kind of load situation, it has a stuttering, cutting out problem. The heavier the load, the worse the problem is. If you put the car in 5th gear and bog it down at like 20 mph, the car literally shakes.

I'm almost positive it's not a mechanical engine problem. It seems electrical or sensor/vacuum related. The only problem I have ever had with this car is a little 5 cent clip falling off the arm of one of the secondary intake flap solonoids. When that happened, it was just down on power.

Any ideas? I'm dreading having to take this car into the Chevy dealership with a blank check.

Edit: Forgot to add, it makes no difference whether the secondary systems are engaged with the key. Either way, it has the stuttering problem.

hmmmmmmm

[rhipsher]

My money is on the injectors. Cuz they can go out all of a sudden and it feels like you running on 4 cylinders. It only takes one bad injector to turn the beast into a lamb. I would suggest running the car up to 6,000 rpm's and see if you get an SES light but if it's happening at only 2500 rpm's then injectors. All it takes is one.

[tccrab]

A bad/failing primary injector would cause a miss at idle.
Hard to miss the sound of the dual mass flywheel rattling itself to death.
A bad/failing secondary injector should cause a lean condition at WOT and should trigger a SES light. Secondary injector shouldn't even be on at 2500rpms.
No SES light, right Lee?
Vacuum leak should cause idle issues, so no joy there.
My vote is on spark, not fuel or air.
Coils, wires or plugs, or a potential ECM issue.

Just my $0.02

Good luck!

TomC
"Crabs"
"Wetblanket #1"

[XfireZ51]

Lee,

You can start by ohming out the injectors before pulling the plenum. On the other hand you'll probably need to pull plenum anyway. Besides you've gotten pretty good at it. ;-)

[VetteMed]

With my experience with Autozone, I'd blame those coils first. :(

[LGAFF]

plenum coming off tonight and old OEM coils going back in the car!

[Kevin]

what duct are you running

[LGAFF]

Not a duct collapse to low for RPM when it stuggles and chugs in high gear low RPM

[Kevin]

yeah the more i think about it the duct isn't the problem...I know I jumped to conclusions with keiths car so i didn't want to do that again. the injectors should be between 12-16ohm if i remember correctly. Why did you replace the coils?

[XfireZ51]

plenum coming off tonight and old OEM coils going back in the car!


Lee,

I have my stock coils available. They have to be better than the originals you have. Maybe you'd like to pick them up?
I also wonder if it has something to do with the spider hoses you put together for the secondaries?
I would go ahead and block off coolant passages in plenum while you're at it. It'll save a lot of time and coolant.

[LGAFF]

I did not make spyder hoses for secondaries that was the PCVs. I believe these coils were replaced at some point going to pull them and swap see if it goes away.

[LGAFF]

Well its not the coils!

[-=Jeff=-]

Injectors?

[LGAFF]

They all Ohm ok and no leaks when pressurized........did not check flow. I swapped pumps, maybe an issue with them? Any thoughts on checking primary pumps, where is the secondary pumps fuse?

[-=Jeff=-]

They all Ohm ok and no leaks when pressurized........did not check flow. I swapped pumps, maybe an issue with them? Any thoughts on checking primary pumps, where is the secondary pumps fuse?

Secondary fuse is on the AUX Fuse Panel I think

[XfireZ51]

Secondary fuse is on the AUX Fuse Panel I think

Yeah it is.

[LGAFF]

Pulled the 2ndry fuse to check the primary pump........it gets up to only 40lbs.....and it flickers on its way up. This is one of the pumps I changed after the lean condition, and it was a used pump off my 21K mile 92.

I will swap today(I say that alot lately) and see if it makes a difference.

Dammit!(Sorry just had to get that out)

[LGAFF]

By the way 2ndry fuse is easy to access contrary to other post, its two small bolts and then some velcro tabs to remove and then its right there and in reach by hand.

[-=Jeff=-]

By the way 2ndry fuse is easy to access contrary to other post, its two small bolts and then some velcro tabs to remove and then its right there and in reach by hand.

Well yeah it is easy.. it is a fuse :mrgreen:

Ah I thought you swapped in a NEW pump..

[LGAFF]

put in 1 new secondary as I was getting a lean code at high RPM......assumed it was the 2ndry, then it turned out to be the O2 sensor.

[-=Jeff=-]

So I assume, when cold runs great then once the car warms up the issues start?

[LGAFF]

No, runs like crap from the get go.

[LGAFF]

Swapped pumps still no better.

[jonszr1]

just for sh!ts and giggles,vacume test the secondary at the pump connection just to rule it out .

[LGAFF]

Going to try swapping MAP sensors and hoses next.....taking one off the 92

[LGAFF]

BAD MAP! Back in business:mrgreen:

[WB9MCW]

Way to go a of testing but you got it!

Maybe advise for others is to test MAP swap right off if you happen to have one or a friend who does?

How much is a MAP these days?

[VetteMed]

Glad you got it going!

[LGAFF]

They are about $40-50

[XfireZ51]

Acham's Razor!

[LGAFF]

Well I started with addressing anything recently changed......as there is a known issue with some coils, went there first. Pumps second, as I had put a slightly used one in when addressing the code 55, which later showed to be a code 64. Most people were set on needing a new set of injectors, but ultimately with this issue no money spent in tracking down the problem.



With regard to the O2 I did open the fuel filter and it looked fresh...so pretty sure O2 was shot.

[LGAFF]

Well maybe I spoke to soon, went out problem had the issue again to a lesser degree and then gone....ran the car for awhile after and no issues...hmmmmmmm

When I got back put a fresh vac line to the MAP, and new PCV valves.

[Ccmano]

Sounds like your in the right neighborhood, at least.

H
:cheers:

[LGAFF]

Done for now, its runs.....getting the plate tags for the 92...time to get it out.


:cheers:For tonight.......going to sit back and drinks a few Beers.:cheers:

I can now remove a plenum and change the coils in less than 2hrs(that included trying to Ohm them)....also have the fuel pump swap down to about 35 minutes:mrgreen:

Jerry's gaskets have held up well.......on and off 2X and no rips

[XfireZ51]

Well I started with addressing anything recently changed......as there is a known issue with some coils, went there first. Pumps second, as I had put a slightly used one in when addressing the code 55, which later showed to be a code 64. Most people were set on needing a new set of injectors, but ultimately with this issue no money spent in tracking down the problem.



With regard to the O2 I did open the fuel filter and it looked fresh...so pretty sure O2 was shot.


Yes BTDT. After reading a number of threads just like this,
I would recommend, to anyone, investing in a scantool and avoid wasted hours (years) and dollars. Pays for itself many times over and in many different ways. If =Jeff= gets the .adx done for ScannerPro you'd have a pretty inexpensive tool. JMO

[LGAFF]

Dom outline what we would need:

Operating system? I've only got Vista on my home computer:rolleyes:
Software?
Equipment?


I think many would be interested

[XfireZ51]

Dom outline what we would need:

Operating system? I've only got Vista on my home computer:rolleyes:
Software?
Equipment?


I think many would be interested

1. Laptop - Could be running DOS or XP or Vista. Mine uses XP. Depends on the scantool. I just bought a 8.9" Acer for $300 at Costco with XPHome.

2. Scantool - EASE if you can find the personal version. XP
Datamaster TTS. XP
Diacom. DOS
ScannerPro - XP =Jeff= can tell us if they have the CCM
sleep issue resolved. Also need the .adx file for your
year ZR. He's building the .adx for the AYBK 90 BC

3. ALDL cable - like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-ALDL-OBDI-Cable-for-programming-diagnostics_W0QQitemZ110036965598QQcmdZViewItemQQp tZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1100 36965598&_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116

You can also build your own.

4. Power Inverter - Personal preference but laptop batteries never last long enough. I have an RS inverter with 2 outlets @ 120v from the cigarette lighter.

[-=Jeff=-]

ScannerPro Sleep issue? first I have heard of it

I have an ADX.. mostly complete should be somewhat usable I think

[LGAFF]

If I am running Vista, what can I use?

[-=Jeff=-]

If I am running Vista, what can I use?

ScannerPro I think will work, Ease will not

datamaster might

[XfireZ51]

ScannerPro Sleep issue? first I have heard of it

I have an ADX.. mostly complete should be somewhat usable I think

Haven't you been testing it to check on CCM/ECM handshake? Issue with losing data?

[Paul Workman]

Yes BTDT. After reading a number of threads just like this,
I would recommend, to anyone, investing in a scantool and avoid wasted hours (years) and dollars. Pays for itself many times over and in many different ways. If =Jeff= gets the .adx done for ScannerPro you'd have a pretty inexpensive tool. JMO

:iamwithst (but, he ain't stooopid!:mrgreen:)

You can borrow mine anytime.

P.

[-=Jeff=-]

Haven't you been testing it to check on CCM/ECM handshake? Issue with losing data?


That should be good as of right now.. to test it I need a running car ;) hopefully in a month I will have the running car

[LGAFF]

That should be good as of right now.. to test it I need a running car ;) hopefully in a month I will have the running car


OH OH , ME ME ME ME :wave:

[-=Jeff=-]

OH OH , ME ME ME ME :wave:

Have a cable and the program? and a laptop?

[Ccmano]

Have a cable and the program? and a laptop?

I do... have DataMaster and a cable you guys can borrow it if you want to come pick it up.

H
:cheers:

[-=Jeff=-]

I do... have DataMaster and a cable you guys can borrow it if you want to come pick it up.

H
:cheers:

Thanks Hans..

I have a cable too.. I was using for testing.. the program is ScannerPro

www.ScannerPro.net

needs to be installed on the planned PC to use

[LGAFF]

I just loaded Scannerpro.......this is a free download?

Does it work with Vista?

[LGAFF]

If I start doing this **** too my wife is gonna lose it:hello:

[XfireZ51]

If I start doing this **** too my wife is gonna lose it:hello:


"Your journey to the darkside is nearly complete my young Zedi Knight." :sign10:

[LGAFF]

Issues has subsuded but not gone, periodic misses at higher RPM, but not he feeling it had before. No shuddering so much as a feeling of a miss.

[-=Jeff=-]

Issues has subsuded but not gone, periodic misses at higher RPM, but not he feeling it had before. No shuddering so much as a feeling of a miss.

you replace the plugs already?

[LGAFF]

Not yet, although they are not very old. I am going to pull the ECM and reinstall the prom maybe a bad connection?

Plugs will get changed this week, wonder if when I swapped back old coils I created a new issue......before the MAP swap car ran seriously crappy.

Need put the old MAP back in and see if issue is stall bad.

[bobbyhi]

In all of your trials did you ever mess with the TB and/or the connection to see if the amps were correct??

[-=Jeff=-]

In all of your trials did you ever mess with the TB and/or the connection to see if the amps were correct??


Amps? or do you mean the TPS voltage?

[bobbyhi]

Amps? or do you mean the TPS voltage?

Yes:o

[-=Jeff=-]

Yes:o
:cheers:

[LGAFF]

Good point my connector is busted on the TPS.

[LGAFF]

Bobbyhi may be the winner!

Rezipped the TPS and drove it tonight with no misses.


Thanks


Lee

[bobbyhi]

Bobbyhi may be the winner!

Rezipped the TPS and drove it tonight with no misses.


Thanks


Lee

Cross your fingers and hope it continues to work:thumbsup:

[WB9MCW]

BBH GETS THE BEACON OF REALITY AWARD

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p110/HAMMERHATE/thelightofenergy.jpg

[bobbyhi]

Lee,

So, how is the car running after working on the TPS??:dontknow:

[LGAFF]

Ran fine, up until I went to put the TB linkage cover back on took the zip tie off, rezipped it and then it came right back, I am thinking there is either a broken connector or wire in there.

[bobbyhi]

Ran fine, up until I went to put the TB linkage cover back on took the zip tie off, rezipped it and then it came right back, I am thinking there is either a broken connector or wire in there.

Easy fix - sure beats throwing parts at it:mrgreen: