eBay find!!

[tccrab]

Looks like it could be a deal.
eBay item #: 110374036173
Has broken timing chain.
I wonder if there's other engine damage?

TomC
"Crabs"

[Ccmano]

Looks like a real beater. A candidate for parting out...

H
:cheers:

[phrogs]

OOOHH Im at work and I cant see it because the bay is blocked! damn I want to see this wreck!

Ok got home and saw the car, 145,000 miles and not taken care of at all, wonder why the chain broke?

you would have to pull that head off at least and Id yank the motor out and go over all of it, then the car its self is in very rough shape, whats with the hood did all the black wear away or is it white washed? wierd

[VetteMed]

It's not *that* much of a wreck from the pics, but the interior and weatherstrip looks a little worn out and poorly kept, plus, the timing cover is off the motor, there's a pic of the timing chains and guides laying on a workbench -- it's likely to be a bit of a mess beyond what's visible.

[Jeffvette]

145,000 miles on the clock. Beware of bent valves with a broken chain and other possible damage from the chain breaking. Should be less than 10k by a large margin.

[tccrab]

Sounds like he had just gotten started fixing it up when the timing chain broke. Sure would hate to have spent all the money on the stuff he replaced, only to lunch the motor.

-Kinda hard to tell in the pictures, but is that a standard C4 windshield? I can't quite see if it has the radar detector cutout.
-The shifter seems short to me, aren't the short shifters usually a little higher than this?
-Steering wheel leather is worn and has a hole on the top.
-wiring harness hanging down under the drivers hush panel.
-drivers window weather striping badly torn, obviously someone attempted using a coat hanger to open the door
-why is the under hood area painted white? Shouldn't it be black?

If it's just a timing chain, it might actually be worth a few $$.
All bets are off if the head/valves are damaged.

TomC
"Crabs"

[VetteMed]

I noticed the shifter too -- I figured the transmission was lower than normal, assuming he unbolted the crossmember when working on the motor?

Sounds like he had just gotten started fixing it up when the timing chain broke. Sure would hate to have spent all the money on the stuff he replaced, only to lunch the motor.

-Kinda hard to tell in the pictures, but is that a standard C4 windshield? I can't quite see if it has the radar detector cutout.
-The shifter seems short to me, aren't the short shifters usually a little higher than this?
-Steering wheel leather is worn and has a hole on the top.
-wiring harness hanging down under the drivers hush panel.
-drivers window weather striping badly torn, obviously someone attempted using a coat hanger to open the door
-why is the under hood area painted white? Shouldn't it be black?

If it's just a timing chain, it might actually be worth a few $$.
All bets are off if the head/valves are damaged.

TomC
"Crabs"

[phrogs]

I noticed the shifter too -- I figured the transmission was lower than normal, assuming he unbolted the crossmember when working on the motor?


Yeah he has to have it lowered to get to the front end parts thats not some super secret shifter or anything :mrgreen:

[phrogs]

I wonder what shipping would be from Cali?

Anyone want to bring this thing from cali to me in NC?

[Jeffvette]

Interesting bidding. Same bidder bid 13 times in the last minute....

[Polo-1]

I like this one more 110373920472
Hard times today.

[diamond zr1]

jeffvette/you or Kevin need this project/keep you both out of trouble/joe

[tccrab]

It went for $6801.00, a little higher than I expected.
Johnny, was that you?

TomC
"Crabs"

[Jeffvette]

It went for $6801.00, a little higher than I expected.
Johnny, was that you?

TomC
"Crabs"


Not Johnny, not me, not Kevin.:dontknow:

I hate the way ebay hides the user id. It used to be so much fun seeing who I was bidding against and give each other crap for overpaying on an item.

[bdw18_123]

Well, I guess I'll have to step forward and say I'm the sucker who bought this one! :rolleyes: I was excited about it until I read this thread...

The bidding at the last minute was cus I had the 1-click bidding up and my stupid mouse button got stuck, lol!

Was this a bad deal? I thought it was a pretty good one since its a one owner. I did worry about the valves being bent cus of the timing chain being broken, but he said there was no internal damage. I guess I'll find out! It doesn't seem like it's in that bad of shape to me, although the pics aren't very good.

Well, whatever the case is, its mine now. Hopefully its not as bad as you guys are saying.

[-=Jeff=-]

Well, I guess I'll have to step forward and say I'm the sucker who bought this one! :rolleyes: I was excited about it until I read this thread...

The bidding at the last minute was cus I had the 1-click bidding up and my stupid mouse button got stuck, lol!

Was this a bad deal? I thought it was a pretty good one since its a one owner. I did worry about the valves being bent cus of the timing chain being broken, but he said there was no internal damage. I guess I'll find out! It doesn't seem like it's in that bad of shape to me, although the pics aren't very good.

Well, whatever the case is, its mine now. Hopefully its not as bad as you guys are saying.

even if it is bad, you are in the right place to get the help you need to get it running again..

[ZZZZZR1]

Well, I guess I'll have to step forward and say I'm the sucker who bought this one! :rolleyes: I was excited about it until I read this thread...

The bidding at the last minute was cus I had the 1-click bidding up and my stupid mouse button got stuck, lol!

Was this a bad deal? I thought it was a pretty good one since its a one owner. I did worry about the valves being bent cus of the timing chain being broken, but he said there was no internal damage. I guess I'll find out! It doesn't seem like it's in that bad of shape to me, although the pics aren't very good.

Well, whatever the case is, its mine now. Hopefully its not as bad as you guys are saying.


Congrats! Great purchase and you got extra parts too.


keep us updated on your progress!

:cheers:


David

[GOLDCYLON]

Well, I guess I'll have to step forward and say I'm the sucker who bought this one! :rolleyes: I was excited about it until I read this thread...

The bidding at the last minute was cus I had the 1-click bidding up and my stupid mouse button got stuck, lol!

Was this a bad deal? I thought it was a pretty good one since its a one owner. I did worry about the valves being bent cus of the timing chain being broken, but he said there was no internal damage. I guess I'll find out! It doesn't seem like it's in that bad of shape to me, although the pics aren't very good.

Well, whatever the case is, its mine now. Hopefully its not as bad as you guys are saying.


Well if you cant fix it a lot of motors have been showing up on Ebay lately at great prices, so you have other options as well. Enjoy the new to you car. GC

[Jeffvette]

I did worry about the valves being bent cus of the timing chain being broken, but he said there was no internal damage.

Well, I would not take the owners word on there not being any internal damage. One of the questions was about bent valves and he said "car runs on passenger side bank." Well no joke, that timing chain didn't break! The driver side had at a minimum needs to come off and inspect the valves and pistons for damage. Timing chains do not let get at idle.

We are not trying to be a bunch of wet blankets. Just realists.

Good luck with you project.

BTW, here are some pics of a motor with a timing chain that let go. The front end pics are after it has been repaired. I've got pictures of the pistons too.

http://www.pnwzr1.com/images/blocktc.JPG


http://www.pnwzr1.com/images/blocktc1.JPG

[bdw18_123]

So, is the LT5 an 'interference' motor? I couldn't find an answer to that question.

Is there a chance that the motor could survive timing chain breakage with little or no internal damage? Is there anyway to tell what the damage is by looking in sparkplug hole, or maybe turning engine over by hand?

I'd like to know before I hand the money over, tho I don't know if the guy will let me back out.

He said the chain let go at around 45mph. He also said that after "running it on passenger bank for 10 seconds" there was no banging metal sounds, gas in the oil, water in the oil, oil in the plugs ..etc. Of course, I'm not going to take him at his word, but that's what he said.

[flyin ryan]

I don't like the chances of breaking a chain with out tagging a few (or a lot) of valves. Would depend a lot on what RPM the chain broke, again not very likely it would break at 'lower' RPM. Next question would be why the chain broke at all...cars got a few miles on but...:confused:, thats a rather lazy answer for me.

[bdw18_123]

I just got off the phone with the guy, he said he used to work on cars for a living. Apparently, he bought a full timing chain setup from Phrogs, off of a 50K mile engine he had. I guess one of the pins on the timing chain sheared off and that's how the chain came apart. He said there was no metal hitting noise when the chain let go at around 45mph. So I guess it's possible that the damage could be minimal, since the rpm's probably weren't high. He had it trailered home from there.

[-=Jeff=-]

I just got off the phone with the guy, he said he used to work on cars for a living. Apparently, he bought a full timing chain setup from Phrogs, off of a 50K mile engine he had. I guess one of the pins on the timing chain sheared off and that's how the chain came apart. He said there was no metal hitting noise when the chain let go at around 45mph. So I guess it's possible that the damage could be minimal, since the rpm's probably weren't high. He had it trailered home from there.

see.. it may not be that bad

[phrogs]

whoa there killer!

First congrats on the car its not all that bad it will be a fun project.
We only had some concerns.


I have never sold a complete set of timing chains to anyone, I have parted out one engine and the timing chains went with it to england not california. So im not sure how my name got into this I did not sell this guy timing chains.

Even if I did I dont know why it would matter, if the chain broke it broke. I just dont understand why my name would come up, but why did he change them previously for what reason? and now they broke and I supplied the used parts?? sounds very fishy to me and its pissing me off.

I have seen a LT5 with bent valves smashing them into the head so it can happen, also I was more worried about the front of the block where the chains are at like the photos Jeff posted that is what I was worried about. The seller stated he ran it after the chain was broken that sends shivers down my spine thinking about it. I have seen a head that the chain broke and busted the cam cover up front so the chain breaking can do some serious damage.


Go look at the front of the block and check it out.

I do have a Left Hand head that ill sell for $750 plus shipping so if you need it I have one.
I also have 2 complete engines for sale.








I just got off the phone with the guy, he said he used to work on cars for a living. Apparently, he bought a full timing chain setup from Phrogs, off of a 50K mile engine he had. I guess one of the pins on the timing chain sheared off and that's how the chain came apart. He said there was no metal hitting noise when the chain let go at around 45mph. So I guess it's possible that the damage could be minimal, since the rpm's probably weren't high. He had it trailered home from there.

[bdw18_123]

I just reread my post, I was not trying to say that it was timing chains that he bought from you phrogs that broke and somehow is your fault. I should have made myself more clear.

The chains that are on the engine are the originals, that's the one that broke, they were never changed previously. The ones he claims to have bought from someone on this forum with your name, phrogs, are the good ones that come with the car that I will be installing. Maybe there is someone else with a similar name? I don't know, that's just what he said.

Again, I apologize if it sounded like I was trying to lay blame on you Phrogs, just the way i typed it makes it sound that way, that was not my intent. If the head is damaged real bad, I may be interested in your $750 head, that doesn't seem like too bad a price considering parts are hard to come by. We'll see how it goes.

I will check the front of the motor when I get there and see if there is any chain damage there.

[Jagdpanzer]

At a minimum I believe the seller should provide you cover if the engine is damaged beyond what he may be claiming. I don't intend to cause undo alarm here but I've been in the engine business all my life and loosing a cam dive has certain consequences that will occur within two revolutions of the crankshaft. The chain letting go at around 45 mph provides no comfort in this case. It will be very lucky indeed if the damage is limited to just a few bent valves.

[phrogs]

I wasnt bent that you typed that, it just sounded like it was words from him that he told you.

I understand what your saying, but again those chains didnt come from me.

its not that hard to work on this motor I would pull it out and clean clean clean and inspect it.


Let me know on the head and maybe a motor if you need one.

johnny

[flyin ryan]

Nobody with a similar name on here...i think the guys dropping names that he's seen on here, hoping it will get him some breathing room & credability. If Johnny says he didn't sell the guy anything, well that's the end of that story, he doesn't forget things like that. I'd proceed with caution :neutral:.

[Ccmano]

While each circumstance is different when something like a timing chain let's go these engines have proven themselves to be very robust. I was at Haibecks shop last year when he had and engine he had rebuilt that had a brand new chain let go. If memory serves, the only damage was few bent valves. Check it out when you get it apart. Worst case, since your on the west coast, send the head(s) to Jeff Flint up in Washington. I'm sure he can get them repaired at minimal cost.

Take your time and treat it as a project, you'll have fun and learn about this unusual and exotic engine. For me, at least, I enjoy working on the car and restoring it as much as driving it.

Have fun....
H
:cheers:

[Jeffvette]

So, is the LT5 an 'interference' motor? I couldn't find an answer to that question.

Is there a chance that the motor could survive timing chain breakage with little or no internal damage? Is there anyway to tell what the damage is by looking in sparkplug hole, or maybe turning engine over by hand?

I'd like to know before I hand the money over, tho I don't know if the guy will let me back out.

He said the chain let go at around 45mph. He also said that after "running it on passenger bank for 10 seconds" there was no banging metal sounds, gas in the oil, water in the oil, oil in the plugs ..etc. Of course, I'm not going to take him at his word, but that's what he said.


You will have 7k in this car just by buying it and picking it up (6,800 + fuel/trailer/time). The car was a deal at 5,600 for me. It would have been a track car probably or a quick turn after the repairs. In talking to a few people who inquired about more pics, they were ignored. The was another car that was for sale a while back ago with "motor issues", owner claimed he had no idea what happened, it just stopped running. Well, long story short he is still looking for parts the last I heard.

We are not trying to scare you, but you need to think on a "worst case basis" for this project. Head gasket, head bolts, cam bolts, other misc pieces.

[bdw18_123]

So the head bolts and cam (cam cover, or cam itself?) bolts are not reusable after they are removed? Why is that? Are all the bolts on the whole engine like that? Have to replace the whole lot every time you remove something? How much do the bolts run?

[LGAFF]

Head bolts can be reused, cam bolts-meaning the ones that thread into the cam itself and attach the gears are not reuseable.

[Jeffvette]

Head bolts can be reused, cam bolts-meaning the ones that thread into the cam itself and attach the gears are not reuseable.


Depends upon how much the bolts have stretched. It's been common practice, reuse once then toss.

[bdw18_123]

So head bolts can be reused once if not stretched too much, but cam gear bolts cannot be reused at all? How come? Do the threads get damaged removing them? Where can I get cam gear bolts?

Sorry for all the questions, lol! I just like to be sure about things.

[Polo-1]

Well...........

When you find out it needs valves on one head, I have a good used set. If it looks to bad, just part it out. You should be able to make your money back, plus.

[Jeffvette]

So head bolts can be reused once if not stretched too much, but cam gear bolts cannot be reused at all? How come? Do the threads get damaged removing them? Where can I get cam gear bolts?

Sorry for all the questions, lol! I just like to be sure about things.

Cam bolts are a TTY bolt. They have too much stretch to reuse. Currently factory bolts are discontinued (get used to hearing that term) and Marc Haibeck sells ARP replacements. I am also working on a set.

[tccrab]

By now you're beginning to realize why we "Wet Blankets" threw up the warning flags at the beginning.
Nobody wanted to scare off any potential buyers, or "Steal the Deal".

We only wanted our new "Brother" to be fully aware of what he or she was getting themselves into and the possible pitfalls of buying a "Damaged Goods" ZR-1.

We want you to be excited about your deal, and by all accounts, you've gotten a good one.
I don't think I've ever seen a reasonably complete, repairable ZR1 go for that cheap.
Ever.
You should applaud yourself, it was the deal of the century.
:cheers:
Even if you have to replace a head and a piston or two, you'll still be in this car for somewhere around $10-12k.
Remember, the original owner paid at least $65k for it new (and maybe a lot more than that if the Stealership gouged him back in 1990, a real possibility).

Welcome to the Brotherhood, Brother.
And never forget that we who live here most of the time cruise all the other relevant forums.
Even ones that we've been "PermaBanned" from.
:mrgreen:

TomC
"Crabs"

[bdw18_123]

By now you're beginning to realize why we "Wet Blankets" threw up the warning flags at the beginning.
Nobody wanted to scare off any potential buyers, or "Steal the Deal".

We only wanted our new "Brother" to be fully aware of what he or she was getting themselves into and the possible pitfalls of buying a "Damaged Goods" ZR-1.

We want you to be excited about your deal, and by all accounts, you've gotten a good one.
I don't think I've ever seen a reasonably complete, repairable ZR1 go for that cheap.
Ever.
You should applaud yourself, it was the deal of the century.
:cheers:
Even if you have to replace a head and a piston or two, you'll still be in this car for somewhere around $10-12k.
Remember, the original owner paid at least $65k for it new (and maybe a lot more than that if the Stealership gouged him back in 1990, a real possibility).

Welcome to the Brotherhood, Brother.
And never forget that we who live here most of the time cruise all the other relevant forums.
Even ones that we've been "PermaBanned" from.
:mrgreen:

TomC
"Crabs"

Yeah, I hear you. I'm feeling a little better about it now after reading all of your replies. I was just really excited about being able to have the chance to own one of these cars so much sooner than I expected. Then after I read this thread, it was like a needle popping a ballon, lol. I thought, damn, did I buy a junker? :neutral:.

Anyway, I'm going down there tomorrow to pick it up. I no longer have any intention of backing out. I want my ZR-1! It may be broken, but its mine! :-D

It sounds like everyone here is as cool and helpful as over on the corvette forum. Tho I have to admit, that wasn't my first impression. :mrgreen: I look forward to getting to know you all and the car. Should be an interesting experience.

The weird thing is, just days before I even knew about this car, I bought a 1/18 scale model of a white '92 ZR-1. At the time, I never would have guessed that less than a week later, I would get to have the real thing!

[Jeffvette]

It sounds like everyone here is as cool and helpful as over on the corvette forum. Tho I have to admit, that wasn't my first impression. :mrgreen: I look forward to getting to know you all and the car. Should be an interesting experience.


Not to sound uppity, but t his is the place to be for ZR-1 info. You will notice a lot of the same names, but this is where the hardcore hang out. You will get accurate answers quicker and with less BS.

[Z Factor]

`



Hello and welcome to the forum. :handshak:

:cheers:

[GOLDCYLON]

Not to sound uppity, but t his is the place to be for ZR-1 info. You will notice a lot of the same names, but this is where the hardcore hang out. You will get accurate answers quicker and with less BS.


http://www.arizonacorvetteenthusiasts.net/arizonavette/forums/style_emoticons/default/rockon2.gif

Hardcore !

[Jagdpanzer]

Yeah, I hear you. I'm feeling a little better about it now after reading all of your replies. I was just really excited about being able to have the chance to own one of these cars so much sooner than I expected. Then after I read this thread, it was like a needle popping a ballon, lol. I thought, damn, did I buy a junker? :neutral:.

Anyway, I'm going down there tomorrow to pick it up. I no longer have any intention of backing out. I want my ZR-1! It may be broken, but its mine! :-D

It sounds like everyone here is as cool and helpful as over on the corvette forum. Tho I have to admit, that wasn't my first impression. :mrgreen: I look forward to getting to know you all and the car. Should be an interesting experience.

The weird thing is, just days before I even knew about this car, I bought a 1/18 scale model of a white '92 ZR-1. At the time, I never would have guessed that less than a week later, I would get to have the real thing!

We are just trying our best to look out for you so you get a square deal and avoid unfortunate surprises.
You can count on this group to help you get this Z back in operation with experienced technical advise and sources for any parts or tools you may need. When you get it back up and running you will have yourself one fine prize.