Ignition channels

[kenthompson]

So, I'm installing the MSD DIS-4 on the car, but I need to know which channel is which.

Does anybody know if channel 1 is coil 1 and so on, as listed in the FSM?

Does it matter?

KT

[tomtom72]

I don't know if this will help. I looked in the electrical section 8A book and this is what I found:

Coil 1 = 1 yellow ckt 933
Coil 2 = 1 Dk Green ckt 934
Coil 3 = 1 Dk blue ckt 932
Coil 4 = 1 Orange ckt 926

The above are wires going from the "Distributorless Ingition Module", but where they are going to is where i get lost as I sure don't understand how to read the diagrams...sorry.:redface:

[XfireZ51]

Not sure what you mean by "channels" and I'm not familiar with MSD DIS-4,
but our ignition system is "waste spark". Pairs of cylinders are fired, ie 1-6.
The FSM will show the pairing.

[-=Jeff=-]

So, I'm installing the MSD DIS-4 on the car, but I need to know which channel is which.

Does anybody know if channel 1 is coil 1 and so on, as listed in the FSM?

Does it matter?

KT


just looked at the User instructions for the DIS-4.. It does not seem to matter on the correlation of Channels to Coils.. BUT be sure the matching input and out put wires are used on the same coil.

So now I have to pose the question, what is the reasoning behind adding the MSD? you looking for improvement of sorts or??

[XfireZ51]

The instructions seem to indicate the MSD unit between the PCM and the coils. I am assuming in the case of the LT5 that means between the Ignition Module and the coils.
I'll second Jeff's question on the need for the MSD unit. I'm not being skeptical, just curious.

[-=Jeff=-]

The instructions seem to indicate the MSD unit between the PCM and the coils. I am assuming in the case of the LT5 that means between the Ignition Module and the coils.


Correct between Ignition Module and Coils

[kenthompson]

just looked at the User instructions for the DIS-4.. It does not seem to matter on the correlation of Channels to Coils.. BUT be sure the matching input and out put wires are used on the same coil.

So now I have to pose the question, what is the reasoning behind adding the MSD? you looking for improvement of sorts or??

So the firing order wouldn't have anything to do with the channel lineup then? I guess it would depend on the circuitry in the MSD unit. If channel 1 is independant of channel 2 for the capacitive discharge then it wouldn't matter.

As far as reasoning, two words: future improvements. :dancing

[kenthompson]

Correct between Ignition Module and Coils

And actually with the coils adaptors from MSD, no wires have to be cut in the factory loom to install the MSD unit. I can take it out any time I like.

[kenthompson]

I don't know if this will help. I looked in the electrical section 8A book and this is what I found:

Coil 1 = 1 yellow ckt 933
Coil 2 = 1 Dk Green ckt 934
Coil 3 = 1 Dk blue ckt 932
Coil 4 = 1 Orange ckt 926

The above are wires going from the "Distributorless Ingition Module", but where they are going to is where i get lost as I sure don't understand how to read the diagrams...sorry.:redface:

Right that's what I found too. Same type of thing in my corvette fuel injection book (only some of the coils to cylinders are different)

But I didn't know if coils related to channels directly in the MSD unit.

[-=Jeff=-]

And actually with the coils adaptors from MSD, no wires have to be cut in the factory loom to install the MSD unit. I can take it out any time I like.

You have the PN for that harness by chance?

So the firing order wouldn't have anything to do with the channel lineup then? I guess it would depend on the circuitry in the MSD unit. If channel 1 is independant of channel 2 for the capacitive discharge then it wouldn't matter.

As far as reasoning, two words: future improvements. :dancing

I don't think so or it would be specifically mentioned, I think the channels are independent..

Yeah, that MSD has soem nice features to go along with it..

Please post pictures when you tackle the install..

[kenthompson]

You have the PN for that harness by chance?



I don't think so or it would be specifically mentioned, I think the channels are independent..

Yeah, that MSD has soem nice features to go along with it..

Please post pictures when you tackle the install..

http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Coils/8870_instructions.pdf

Not a harness but an additional part that goes between the coil and the plate. Splits the wiring from the plate and then supplies the coil with voltage from the MSD.

[limey]

I'm VERY interested in this thread, there is a massive need now for the ignitions on the LT5 & good aftermarket system with bolt on parts and installation instructions would be a great item to have.

Keep us posted.

[tomtom72]

I'm VERY interested in this thread, there is a massive need now for the ignitions on the LT5 & good aftermarket system with bolt on parts and installation instructions would be a great item to have.

Keep us posted.

Me too, I'm interested also as I'm sure the OE stuff will not last forever. If it's a plug & play and comes with instructions I'm in.

TIA:cheers:

Okay I'm not swift when it comes to wiring. After reading the pfd, this system appears to me to be intended for the LSx direct coil system, No??? Using this we are "adapting" it to the LT5 system. We loose the DIS box under the plenum & that makes room for those adaptors that we would need under each of the ciols? Am I getting this? Thanks!

[kenthompson]

Me too, I'm interested also as I'm sure the OE stuff will not last forever. If it's a plug & play and comes with instructions I'm in.

TIA:cheers:

Okay I'm not swift when it comes to wiring. After reading the pfd, this system appears to me to be intended for the LSx direct coil system, No??? Using this we are "adapting" it to the LT5 system. We loose the DIS box under the plenum & that makes room for those adaptors that we would need under each of the ciols? Am I getting this? Thanks!


The MSD is not a replacement ignition per se. The DIS unit bolted under the plenum still stays in place. All the MSD unit does is provide additional spark voltage and more duration of spark time. Plus some timing issues if used with N2O or turbos and a two step launch control. You still need the DIS factory system.

I don't believe the DIS-4 was produced specifically for LS-x engines. They are far more common on import engines (at least the DIS-2 units are). As I understand it, Aaron in Georgia has adapted one to his car.

[-=Jeff=-]

I'm VERY interested in this thread, there is a massive need now for the ignitions on the LT5 & good aftermarket system with bolt on parts and installation instructions would be a great item to have.

Keep us posted.


yes but this still uses the OEM ignition module, the MSD goes between the OEM module and Coils

one thing I think would work to replace the OEM ignition module would be a F.A.S.T. eDIST.. but you need a different Crank trigger with 8 notches, not nine like our OEM has. with the eDIST you would then run 8 LSx coils and have Coil per Cylinder.. no more Waste spark.

I think you could also use our Cam sensor for it as well.. but not sure if you can feed both the ECM and the eDIST from the one cam sensor..

[XfireZ51]

No relationship of channels to coils because module still provides the firing sequence. Its difficult to eliminate ignition module from our system. If the LSx PCM could be adapted to LT5 motor, then the module could be eliminated because LSx coils ARE the ignition module and PCM provides the sequencing based on crank reluctor and cam sensor. However, the code for the LSx PCM would need to be re-written to adapt specific LT5 functionality. That's one reason Graham Behan told us that the next gen LT-5 was going to have 8 injectors and not 16. GM didn't want the added expense of a unique Power Control Module.

=Jeff= ,

Does our cam sensor provide the granularity needed as an input for eDist?


kt,
If I could ask, how much is this setup putting you back with coil and harness adapters?

[-=Jeff=-]

Summitracing shows

MSD-8870 @ 36.95.. you need 4

MSD-62152 DIS 4 Plus ignition $569.95

[kenthompson]

No relationship of channels to coils because module still provides the firing sequence. If I could ask, how much is this setup putting you back with coil and harness adapters?

Good news then, I just need to make sure the wire sequence (orange to brown/orange, yellow to brown/yellow, etc) is correct then. The rest of it is cake electrical work.

[-=Jeff=-]

Good news then, I just need to make sure the wire sequence (orange to brown/orange, yellow to brown/yellow, etc) is correct then. The rest of it is cake electrical work.

:thumbsup:

[-=Jeff=-]

No relationship of channels to coils because module still provides the firing sequence. Its difficult to eliminate ignition module from our system. If the LSx PCM could be adapted to LT5 motor, then the module could be eliminated because LSx coils ARE the ignition module and PCM provides the sequencing based on crank reluctor and cam sensor. However, the code for the LSx PCM would need to be re-written to adapt specific LT5 functionality. That's one reason Graham Behan told us that the next gen LT-5 was going to have 8 injectors and not 16. GM didn't want the added expense of a unique Power Control Module.

=Jeff= ,

Does our cam sensor provide the granularity needed as an input for eDist?



I think a LS1 Ecm could be made to work with those that have removed secondaries

As for the cam sensor, all it does is tell you when you are at #1 ( or TDC) one of the 2.. it is just for sync.. nothing else

[kenthompson]

Summitracing shows

MSD-8870 @ 36.95.. you need 4

MSD-62152 DIS 4 Plus ignition $569.95

Plus ~ 43 x 4 ea for the coils, if you change them.

Plus ~ 79 for Wires (add the terminal kit because MSD wires fit like a red-headed stepchild and will need to be trimmed)

Holy crap, would it have been cheaper to finance a new ZR1?

[XfireZ51]

I think a LS1 Ecm could be made to work with those that have removed secondaries

As for the cam sensor, all it does is tell you when you are at #1 ( or TDC) one of the 2.. it is just for sync.. nothing else


=Jeff=

What's your thought regarding the CCM/ECM comm issue? You think the
LSx PCM can be made to communicate? I'm not sure it will be "trivial". This is the issue EFI Connections ran into when trying adapt the LSx PCM to run LS coils on LT motors.

[-=Jeff=-]

=Jeff=

What's your thought regarding the CCM/ECM comm issue? You think the
LSx PCM can be made to communicate? I'm not sure it will be "trivial". This is the issue EFI Connections ran into when trying adapt the LSx PCM to run LS coils on LT motors.

Leave the old ECM in on powered to communicate with the CCm to alleviate the code.. use the Old ECM for that purpose only..