Proroyype ZF transmission.

[Tyler Townsley]

Pretty quiet here so just for fun.
If you happen to find a ZF with a s/n with 3 digits it may be a prototype. Here is some pictures of mine. It is s/n 210 and has some noticeable differences over those in the 90-95. If you find one let me know, the parts are not completely interchangable.
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/P_trans1_s.jpg
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/P_trans2_s.jpg
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/P_trans3_s.jpg
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/P_trans4_s.jpg
http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/P_trans5_s.jpg

Tyler

[LGAFF]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would love to get an in-depth write up and lots of pics of your prototype car!:worship: I wonder what one of these cars would bring at auction? Anyone ever sold one recently?

LGAFF
92 ZR1
#234

[-=Jeff=-]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would love to get an in-depth write up and lots of pics of your prototype car!:worship: I wonder what one of these cars would bring at auction? Anyone ever sold one recently?

LGAFF
92 ZR1
#234


you should see it in person!!! very cool car

[Tyler Townsley]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would love to get an in-depth write up and lots of pics of your prototype car!:worship: I wonder what one of these cars would bring at auction? Anyone ever sold one recently?

LGAFF
92 ZR1
#234

http://deliquescence.net/~tyler/prototype/Story%20of%20Queenie.doc

There have been no known sales of any whole pre 1990 cars. 2 86 component cars, 1 88 prototype and 2 pilot cars that had all been crushed were bought from the Graveyard in England. The 2 pilot cars cars were reconstructed, the first in 96 (s/n 14), the bodywork cost 85k, do not know what thedrive train cost probably 20k+. It was sold at least 2 times and is in the midwest with the wrong motor. The correct motor is at SGC. The second pilot car was bought by Mike Yeager for 13k in crushed condition and reconstructed for ??? $$$. Still owned by Mike. The 2 86s were used to reconstruct one car currently owned by Keith B last I heard. The other 88 prototype is being reconstructrd by Geoff Jeal as I type. Its in Mich right now.

Tyler

[-=Jeff=-]

Hey Tyler, I remember seeing a Pearl White 89 ZR-1 in ~95-96 I think at Chevy Vettefest in Chicago.. you know anything about it?

[Tyler Townsley]

Hey Tyler, I remember seeing a Pearl White 89 ZR-1 in ~95-96 I think at Chevy Vettefest in Chicago.. you know anything about it?
Was owned by Joe Robuck reconstructed by Gene Tucker Its the one I mentioned above s/n 14.

Tyler

[-=Jeff=-]

you know where it is now?

[Tyler Townsley]

you know where it is now?

Some place in Indiana owned by a dealer. Aaron tried to reach him about the motor but got no reply.

[-=Jeff=-]

Some place in Indiana owned by a dealer. Aaron tried to reach him about the motor but got no reply.

it is an 89 though correct?

The other ZR-1 I remember, a custom 57 body built on a ZR-1 Chassis.. I think is was Blue with light gray interior

[8upZR1]

You never cease to amaze me Tyler. Have you taken a look inside that prototype ZF? I wonder if there are any major internal differences in materials or design. Just a general ? about ZF:
Was the ZR1 the original intended application for the ZF6 and was later adapted to L98/LT1 cars or was it other way around? Originally designed for L98/LT1 and then adapted for ZR1?
BTW do you drive that 89 prototype?

[Tyler Townsley]

You never cease to amaze me Tyler. Have you taken a look inside that prototype ZF? I wonder if there are any major internal differences in materials or design. Just a general ? about ZF:
Was the ZR1 the original intended application for the ZF6 and was later adapted to L98/LT1 cars or was it other way around? Originally designed for L98/LT1 and then adapted for ZR1?
BTW do you drive that 89 prototype?

The shifter rod is broken on one end and needs to be machined; it is not the same as the later ones. I have not taken it apart Kurt White had it and rebuilt most of it. He also stated it was much more complex than the later units. Since the earliest units are ZR 1 specific I would surmise they were designed for the ZR 1 program then adapted to the other platform. The car is licensed and tagged but I do not drive it on the road. Its an 1988 built on the 87 production line in June of 87.

[ZR1Vette]

Interesting... I compared the proto plate with the ZF that is on my ZR-1 which has a build date of 11/89>>

Proto
S6-40
105200018
210
1X158310 AL
2.68-0.5

ZR-1 1990 #566
S6-40
1052 000 031
007495
2.68-0.5

Line (1) is tranny type so that is expected to be the same #
Line (2) Customer ref number being different (last three digits) would be expected from proto tranny to regular production tranny
Line (3) Now if this is a sequential serial number the tranny on my ZR is 7495 for a ZR with a VIN of 566 thus suggesting that about 6900 ZF trannies went to other manufacturers such as BMW...or ???????. For that to be the case the customer ref number would be different tranny to tranny but still maintaining the sequential serial numbers
Line (4) tranny gear ratio info

For those who know this car a lot better than I do...any ideas??

[-=Jeff=-]

Interesting... I compared the proto plate with the ZF that is on my ZR-1 which has a build date of 11/89>>

Proto
S6-40
105200018
210
1X158310 AL
2.68-0.5

ZR-1 1990 #566
S6-40
1052 000 031
007495
2.68-0.5

Line (1) is tranny type so that is expected to be the same #
Line (2) Customer ref number being different (last three digits) would be expected from proto tranny to regular production tranny
Line (3) Now if this is a sequential serial number the tranny on my ZR is 7495 for a ZR with a VIN of 566 thus suggesting that about 6900 ZF trannies went to other manufacturers such as BMW...or ???????. For that to be the case the customer ref number would be different tranny to tranny but still maintaining the sequential serial numbers
Line (4) tranny gear ratio info

For those who know this car a lot better than I do...any ideas??

Don't forget 89 was the first production year for the ZF in the L98 car.. maybe that is where some of those #s are

as I understand the input shaft is the only difference from a LT5 to L98/LT1/LT4 car

[8upZR1]

I think the throwout bearing retainer tube is also longer on the ZR1 ZF. The L98/LT1 bellhousing is actually pretty interesting. Its magnesium, not aluminum + its about half the overall length of the ZR1 bellhousing. The LT5 sits a bit further forward than the SBC. I wonder what that does to handling.

[Jeffvette]

The L98/LT1 bellhousing is actually pretty interesting. Its magnesium, not aluminum +

It was a mixture of both. Some years were magnesium, the others were alum.

[8upZR1]

The one I got is magnesium. Any idea which of the 2 is stronger?

[ZR1Vette]

Actually, aluminum used in die casting (such as bell housings etc) have about 5% magnesium...better strength

Quick snap shot of the two metals:

Aluminum - This alloy is lightweight, while possessing high dimensional stability for complex shapes and thin walls. Aluminum has good corrosion resistance and mechanical properties, high thermal and electrical conductivity, as well as strength at high temperatures.

Magnesium - The easiest alloy to machine, magnesium has an excellent strength-to-weight ratio and is the lightest alloy commonly die cast.

Interesting is that most US manufacturers use aluminum while most Euro manufacterers use magnesium in the die casting of automotive parts... maybe cost of production is the determining factor???

[Tyler Townsley]

Since we are talking mag and al drivetrains how about a story. About 6 years ago at Sebring a friend of mine came over and said he wanted to show me something. We went to his trailer and he showed me a transaxle housing and told me to pick it up which I did and just about dropped it. It was the lightest 3rd member piece I had ever seen. When I asked just what it was for and he said it was off one of the early Chaparrals and was going to England where a guy was doing a recreation of one of the first Jim Hall cars.

Another story same cars. The automatic used in those cars were nothing more than 2 speed manual transmissions with torque converters on the front end, to put it in reverse you had to turn the engine off put it reverse then you could back up.

Tyler

[Z51JEFF]

If you guys want to check out something interesting check some of the info and pictures of these crushed cars.I read somewhere that the cars were run over with a tractor and from the looks of the pictures it looks like they were run over by a tank.In one of the pictures you can see a white car on its side,I think this is the above mentioned pearl white car.It amazes me the lengths these guys went to bring these cars back from the grave.These cars were destroyed.The car that Mike Yeager has is this the blue car next to the white car in the grave yard?I cant remember where I saw the info on the crushed cars,maybe on the NCM site.