'92 DRM 600 with "Minor Engine Problems" FS on the Bay

[tccrab]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Corvette-Corvette-ZR1-001-DRM-Widow-Maker_W0QQitemZ160292876672QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m160292876672&_trkparms=39%3A1|65%3A3|240%3A1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
BuyItNow at $25k.

One minor itsy bitsy teenie weenie tiny little problem with the motor:
Car is in great shape inside and out. No leaks, everything works except recent engine issue.
Missed a shift and is now not running. Not blown, stopped running.



RRRriiiiiiight....


Besides the obvious "Why don't you fix it BEFORE you sell it", the best part is the Q&A's:
My 92 was running like a bear when it just stopped cold. Turns out it needed a new distribitor.
:mrgreen::occasion1

TomC
"Crabs"

[Jeffvette]

Yea, he isn't telling the whole story IMHO. Check the obvious air/fuel/spark. He hasn't even done that.

Definitely buyer beware. Story through the grapevine as well is it at one point had two alarms installed and the wiring harness was pretty well fubar'd, but was supposedly fixed by the second owner.

[GOLDCYLON]

Hmm I heard this one too. The checks in the mail......

[bobbyhi]

Hey guys, Jerry is a member here so take it easy on him. I met him at a car show here last summer and seemed as a real stand up type of guy. Cut him a little slack...............:mad: It's far too easy to speculate when you don't have all of the facts.

[Pete]

Need to know is this really a 385 ci LT5.

Can i get some more details on this car,besides wiring.

Pete

[Polo-1]

But, how can you expect someone to kick out $25k on a not running car. Just "it did run nice at one time" WTF.

His wife must be on him to sell, and he does not. See dear no one wants to buy the car.................

I wonder why:icon_scra

[Polo-1]

Need to know is this really a 385 ci LT5.

Can i get some more details on this car,besides wiring.

Pete

I thought "widow makers" were the 402's

[Jeffvette]

Need to know is this really a 385 ci LT5.

Can i get some more details on this car,besides wiring.

Pete

Pete, I talked to Randy. He remembered the car, and that's where I got my info from. The original conversion owner lived in NY, and the second owner lives in MN, and the current owner lives in MN.

[ZRWON]

The following was published in Feb. 1998, and might be of interest re this car. It is not a BLACK WIDOW nor does Jerry even come close to claiming it is. Of the 8 Black Widows made only one (#6) was a '92 red on black ZR-1. The original owner was Dr. Michael Jackson of Garden City KS. Here's the quote from the '98 publication:

"...Since the last "Black Widow" was completed, DRM has gone on to convert ZR-1s into even more spectacular performers. The current top-of-the-line is the DRM 600 Corvette ZR-1, a direct descendent of the Black Widows powered by a 385 cubic inch 550hp engine that takes a mere 3.9 seconds to reach 60mph and just 19 seconds to 150mph covering the quarter-mile in only 11.8 seconds at 122mph. ZR-1 s converted to DRM 500 specifications, similar to the Black Widows, are powered by LT-5 engines ranging from 415hp to 475hp.
In August of 1996 a very special DRM LT-5 motor was tested in the desert at over 600 horsepower which produced 493 horsepower to the rear wheels. Everything learned by DRM has been adapted for application to all the ZR-1, LS-1, LT1/LT4 and L98 Corvettes it converts and to Camaros and Impala SSs. "Can you make me one of these.." resulted in a custom built tube frame chassis Corvette using lightweight stock components; "We know you’re the expert..." brings LT-5 factory authorized motor repairs to the DRM shop; and "Our new product would be perfect if we had your input..." creates more R & D opportunities for the Doug Rippie Motorsports team..."
source:http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/c4/zr1/blackwidow.html

[GOLDCYLON]

Ok so whats the real story on this car???

[ZRWON]

Ok so whats the real story on this car??? Ebay listing says, "589 HP and 491 torque,15,000 miles since DRM conversion. More than $110K invested in 1996".
I guess DRM could have easily made it with those hp & torque # in 1996. Sure would like to know more about what's really wrong with it...or at least an estimate of what DRM would charge to make it run again...like Tom said maybe something easy and inexpensive vs timing chain,cam damage. Wonder if JVD is watching this auction???
This could be a good deal for the right buyer:dontknow:

[phrogs]

DRM isnt to far from him but they will charge a arm and leg "trying" to trouble shoot the car. I know I saw the recipts from my car when the owner sent his car there to be looked at.

[Jeffvette]

Ebay listing says, "589 HP and 491 torque,

Crank ratings

Sure would like to know more about what's really wrong with it...or at least an estimate of what DRM would charge to make it run again...

Well, from what Randy said, the owner has been to the shop "recently" and has never brought up the issue.


like Tom said maybe something easy and inexpensive vs timing chain,cam damage.

Well if we could get simple diag done, does it have spark and fuel, we could start narrowing it down.


This could be a good deal for the right buyer:dontknow:

Doubtful. It has no goodies other than a questionable engine. Reserve is not that far off of his buy it now.

[Pete]

I would really like to bit on this car,i don't think it's worth $25k if the motor is locked up and the crank is junk,basicly i would be buying a rolling chassis for $25k rolling chassis is not even worth $15k.

It gets me to wonder if the damage is not that bad why not have DRM fix it even at a cost of $5-$7k now he'll have a good running car and could ask/get more money if it's a real DRM 385ci.

Does anybody have more info on what happened to the motor?
TIA
Pete

[Jeffvette]

Does anybody have more info on what happened to the motor?
TIA



That's the issue. We don't know and the owner does not know.

[Jeffvette]

Not sold at 12,500.

[tccrab]

It's up again on eBay.
Reserve price now $17,500.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Corvette-Corvette-Corvette-ZR1-001-DRM-Widow-Maker_W0QQitemZ160302116572QQihZ006QQcategoryZ6168 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not a bad price if the motor is fixable.
Anybody got details yet of engine damage?

TomC
"Crabs"

[Jeffvette]

Not a bad price if the motor is fixable.
Anybody got details yet of engine damage?

TomC
"Crabs"

This is what ZRwhat had to say.

I actually had an interest in the car and contacted the owner. He sent pics of the motor and on the left side cam cover there was a pertrusion right where the corvette circle emblem resides, something came through the LH cam cover and caused a crack in it. My guess is the cam broke or something exploded and drove it partially through the cam cover. Without tearing it down, I suspect the motor granaded and did some catastrophic damage. Even if only the cam broke, there sure would be plenty of piston/valve contact going on.

Looks like a nice car but what is a non running car worth?

Paperwork for the motor really means nothing if the motor is toast unless you want to sink a small/large fortune into it and have DRM redo it

[Polo-1]

hey it's a new 3 cam LT5
589 hp with 4 cams, so...... 3cammer would a 440hp??????

[Zr1 Destroyer]

It's up again on eBay.
Reserve price now $17,500.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Corvette-Corvette-Corvette-ZR1-001-DRM-Widow-Maker_W0QQitemZ160302116572QQihZ006QQcategoryZ6168 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not a bad price if the motor is fixable.
Anybody got details yet of engine damage?

TomC
"Crabs"It prolly just dropped a valve....pull motor out and replace piston and fix the head....hopefully that is all that is wrong with it, but my guess is it's not that bad if he shut it down right away.

[tccrab]

It prolly just dropped a valve....pull motor out and replace piston and fix the head....hopefully that is all that is wrong with it, but my guess is it's not that bad if he shut it down right away.

A good idea, but my gut feeling is that it's not going to be quite that easy.
Something was moving around under the cam cover enough to bulge and crack it.
At the very least it's gonna need a new head on that side.
I can't even begin to imagine what would have happened under there if a camshaft snapped at 7000+ rpms. No way to know for sure until you go in there and look around.
Also, it's a 385 stoker right?
Doesn't that mean aftermarket rods, liners & pistons?
Don't you have to buy that stuff in "sets"?
Replacing a piston turns into an expensive project.

The owner's asking $17.5k for a car that cost $150k+ by the time all the mods were done.
That little fact alone speaks volumes.

TomC
"Crabs"

[Zr1 Destroyer]

A good idea, but my gut feeling is that it's not going to be quite that easy.
Something was moving around under the cam cover enough to bulge and crack it.
At the very least it's gonna need a new head on that side.
I can't even begin to imagine what would have happened under there if a camshaft snapped at 7000+ rpms. No way to know for sure until you go in there and look around.
Also, it's a 385 stoker right?
Doesn't that mean aftermarket rods, liners & pistons?
Don't you have to buy that stuff in "sets"?
Replacing a piston turns into an expensive project.

The owner's asking $17.5k for a car that cost $150k+ by the time all the mods were done.
That little fact alone speaks volumes.

TomC
"Crabs"You can buy pistons/rods/liners all seperate...it just costs a little more...no biggie.

New head? As long as the lifter bore(s) are okay I'd say tig up what needs to be fixed and run it! If the end of the cam snapped off it prolly just popped a cam retainer up......weld it and re-tap it. I'd also just fix the bulged/cracked cam cover and run it aswell......it really doesn't sound that bad.

The seat area on the head may be beat up pretty bad, but that can also be fixed.

I hope somebody gets this and puts her back on the road.......prolly not too bad for an Lt5 do it yourselfer!:mrgreen:

[Jeffvette]

Auction closed at 5,600. Not looking good.

[Polo-1]

Sure now that the word is out it has a bad head.

1. Head $1500-2300
2. Cams $300-600 regrind of your stocker (hope to match the other side)
3. 4 pistons $900 (je from my price on the 402 project)
4. Gasket kit $1000
5. Porting new head to match $500 +
6. someones time to pull and rebuild/ reinstall ??
7. hope it did not snap a chain or do block damage?? $$$$

[Aurora40]

Sure now that the word is out it has a bad head.

Presumably if the owner thinks the "word" is overexaggerating the damage, he could set the record straight by fixing it and selling a car that works properly.

[Chris_32212]

i agree... if it sounds too good to be true, IT IS!!! i wouldn't touch a car that wasn't running unless i had a firm and reliable diagnoses on the issue and knew how much the repair costs were going to be. even then i would it would have to be a steal. The owner needs to suck it up and fix it and then sell it as a running ZR-1.

Chris

[Polo-1]

If fixed by someone other than DRM is it still a DRM 600 ?

Thanks for the picture Johnny
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/kpie/JerrysZR-1enginedamage.jpg

[jerrydirks]

Well guys...I am the owner of the broken ZR1 Widow Maker Ser #1. I was not aware of all this gossip until today. I can't believe all the BS in this string of messages. How disappointing for fellow Vette lovers to trash my car with no facts!

Here are the facts on the car. I have ALL the original documents.

Built in 1996 for a total cost of car purchase and mods of $110K.
Widow Maker#001 was built for a NY owner, whose name I will withhold. He was a ZR1 Registry Charter member. Car has window stickers for the early years including the Charter Member sticker.

The entire build was documented in the ZR1 Registry newsletters,November 96 and April 97. Does anyone have copies of these....I have many years which will go with the car including the whole story of this special build.

Vette Doctors did the work in NY. DRM did the engine only.

I have personally confirmed the build sheet signature with Doug, he confirmed it is his sig.

The car was stored, little used from 1997 through October 2007 when I purchased the car in Minneapolis.

We all know the challenges of putting a car back on the road. I have personally invested over $35K in the past year. The engine failure was a heartbreaker for me.

I did remove an aftermarket security system. Not several, everything works great...except the motor. No wiring problems!

I showed the car once this summer, Doug saw the car then. He stated that he put many of the LeMans engine mods in this engine.

The engine failed shifting well under 7K rpms, I was out for a fall color cruise with my wife, not racing or the like.

If I had the cash I would repair the engine. I have found the mechanic that actually turned the wrenches on this engine.

To date I have not put a wrench on the engine. I do not believe the bottom end went at all. But I do not know. No knocks were heard, oil pan is fine. No leaks! Just stopped running. If I had a shop....I definately would be attempting to fix this engine.

This car is real, nice shape and my responses are HONEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to the many of you that posted factual logical messages.

Others, if you are trying to drive down the value of my car......well it is what it is.

Send me a personal message and I will honestly answer all questions.

But please stop the speculation! This was a DRM special build, and believed to be the ONLY documented Widow Maker. Has anyone else seen a documented DRM Widow Maker build sheet? I would be interested to know.

Thanks!
Jerry Dirks

[Chris_32212]

IMHO, Any documentation or work done to this engine is worthless since the motore doesn't run. Paticularly because nobody, including the owner knows the extent of the damage or how much the repairs will cost. so your right, it is what it is - a ZR-1 minus a running engine and nothing more. Im not "trying to drive down the price" of your car. your car is only worth what someone is willing pay and i cant imagine anyone that wouldn't have major reservations about buying a car that didn't run and without knowing the extent of the damage. if you dont have the money to fix the car, perhaps you should at least get a reputable mechanic to diagnose the problem and have them ensure there is no bottom end damage. Once the diagnoses is complete, you wouldn't even have to put it back together since the new buyer would just have to tear it down anyway. You could pull the heads, package them and leave them off the block. Seal the block with tape and sell the car with a firm and reliable diagnoses as to the extent of the engine damage and how much the repair costs should be. Just trying to help...

Chris

[69bb]

I would like to know how many people own Drm 600 cars that were shipped to drm from the dealer? I know that this car is not the first Drm 600.

[Aurora40]

I have personally invested over $35K in the past year.

...

To date I have not put a wrench on the engine.
I'm just curious, how have you spent $35k on the car in a year but not touched the engine? Or does that include actually purchasing the car? It sounds like you purchased it over a year ago, so I'm just wondering.

Also, just as a bit of a reality check, you accused people of posting BS. Yet all you are doing is speculating about the damage to the engine. That's no more or less than anyone else has done. :dontknow:

[Zr1 Destroyer]

Well guys...I am the owner of the broken ZR1 Widow Maker Ser #1. I was not aware of all this gossip until today. I can't believe all the BS in this string of messages. How disappointing for fellow Vette lovers to trash my car with no facts!

Here are the facts on the car. I have ALL the original documents.

Built in 1996 for a total cost of car purchase and mods of $110K.
Widow Maker#001 was built for a NY owner, whose name I will withhold. He was a ZR1 Registry Charter member. Car has window stickers for the early years including the Charter Member sticker.

The entire build was documented in the ZR1 Registry newsletters,November 96 and April 97. Does anyone have copies of these....I have many years which will go with the car including the whole story of this special build.

Vette Doctors did the work in NY. DRM did the engine only.

I have personally confirmed the build sheet signature with Doug, he confirmed it is his sig.

The car was stored, little used from 1997 through October 2007 when I purchased the car in Minneapolis.

We all know the challenges of putting a car back on the road. I have personally invested over $35K in the past year. The engine failure was a heartbreaker for me.

I did remove an aftermarket security system. Not several, everything works great...except the motor. No wiring problems!

I showed the car once this summer, Doug saw the car then. He stated that he put many of the LeMans engine mods in this engine.

The engine failed shifting well under 7K rpms, I was out for a fall color cruise with my wife, not racing or the like.

If I had the cash I would repair the engine. I have found the mechanic that actually turned the wrenches on this engine.

To date I have not put a wrench on the engine. I do not believe the bottom end went at all. But I do not know. No knocks were heard, oil pan is fine. No leaks! Just stopped running. If I had a shop....I definately would be attempting to fix this engine.

This car is real, nice shape and my responses are HONEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to the many of you that posted factual logical messages.

Others, if you are trying to drive down the value of my car......well it is what it is.

Send me a personal message and I will honestly answer all questions.

But please stop the speculation! This was a DRM special build, and believed to be the ONLY documented Widow Maker. Has anyone else seen a documented DRM Widow Maker build sheet? I would be interested to know.

Thanks!
Jerry Dirks:cool:Nice car brother! Motor looks just like my old DRM368 before I switched to a stroker......I kinda miss the black motor though, but it's under the bench when I get to really missing her;)

Hopefully the guy you found can fix it for ya and then you can keep it around.....like I said before....an easy fix more then likely.

[Polo-1]

What else does this car have? When I asked it only has a DRM motor. No Coil-overs, No big brakes. What did Vette Doc's do ? What other mods have been done to this car?
The way it was told to me, DRM motor 385ci. the rest of the car is stock.

Give us some info on it. Not just Vette Doctors did the work, What work:dontknow:

[A1990]

If you can get your hands on the Nov/Dec 1996 and the Mar/Apr 1997 issues of the ZR-1 Registry publication you can read all about this car. Owner took the car to RAMP Chevrolet, which is where the "Vette Doctors" worked at the time. Engine was pulled by them and sent to DRM.

Owner explains what in addition was done to the 385, however, specifics are not given.

[Jeffvette]

If I had the cash I would repair the engine. I have found the mechanic that actually turned the wrenches on this engine.


You found Brian?

[jerrydirks]

A couple of responses to the new questions.

Vette Doctors, Ramp, handled engine in / out, exhaust, brakes, gears, paint etc. Brakes were returned to stock sometime before coming to Minneapolis.

Some of the BS is that I have never called the engine issue minor. I do not know and have always said that.

I did locate Brian purely by chance when I had the flywheel rebalanced this summer.

The 35K is my investment, not including time. Rebuilt shock acuators, new top, door switches, new drivers carpet, master cylinder work, tranny rebuild, new clutch, etc.

I will answer all personal e mails.

Jerry

[Chris_32212]

wow, no response to my suggestion about having a diagnoses done... what a surprise. Sounds like Jerry is hidding something, other wise why wouldn't you consider having one done? my guess is that a diagnoses was already done and the news wasn't good.

Chris