Looking for power on a budget... Nitrous???

[Chris_32212]

i feel as though i have done almost everything i can in search of more power without spending many thousands of dollars with only minimal power gains for the buck. so far i have done the following. any power adding suggestions would be appreciated!!!

SW headers
Chip from Exotic Muscle
Fidanza light weight flywheel
B&B tri flow with X pipe
Magnaflow high flow metal core cats

i want to do a set of under drive/light weight pulleys, maybe a better chip if there i can find something better or possibly have one done for my car but i need to find out more information about that process. also i have heard that tunning can have a decent reward but i dont want to do that till after i get my car set up the way i want it and i am thinking nitrous is going to be the best way to get the power level i am after. not sure if i should tune the car before nitrous or if i should tune it with nitrous. also, how does elevation affect tunning? if i have it tunned somewhere with a higher altitude like here, Salt Lake City 4,600' about sea level. how would that affect operation at lower elevations? also not sure what power level nitrous to use. im thinking 150hp shot would be sufficient i dont think it would be wise to use more than 200hp shot. is there anyone out there running nitrous? any reccomendations?

Chris

[tomtom72]

Check out these links:

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_mods.htm

http://www.zr1specialist.com/

There you will find some thinking on the LT5's upgrades that may help you make a decision.

:thumbsup:

[Chris_32212]

my whole point is that i have already done most of the upgrades that are budget friendly, all the upgrades except brakes that are talked about on the ZR-1 mods page you listed are already on my car. what i would really be interested to know is if there are any ZR-1's running nitrous and what kinds of setups are popular if any.

Chris

[Jeffvette]

Well, Nitrous is a dirty whore........ at least in my opinion.

It may be working fine one moment and then having issues the second. Most of time I see problems with it is when people get too greedy for power.

But as far as cheap hp, you do wind up paying a toll over the long haul. I'm not sure how local regs are down by you, but if the cops catch you with a nitrous tank that is completely plumbed on the street, they go crazy.

And yes a tune at 5,000 feet in slc will make the car run different at sea level.

[Chris_32212]

the way i see it, initrous is the only way to get to the HP level i am looking for. i cant afford to spend 30 grand for a 415cid conversion to get me up past 600hp. plus MPG goes down the shitter when you do that anyway. so the extra cost of filling a bottle would probably be offset (atleast to some degree) by the extra fuel cost of driving a 415cid over a stock LT5 anyway. i know bottles are for babies and i traditionally shy away from it also. all im saying is that getting the power up to and above the 600hp mark with out it is prohibitively expensive by any other means. i thought about a centrifugal supercharger system but the motor has such a high compression ratio that i wouldn't dare run more than 5psi of boost which probably wouldn't be worth it HP wise. has anybody successfully tried to lower the compression? is it possible to increase the combustion chamber of the heads? are there thicker head gaskets out there? im guessing that the head gaskets are pretty limited. i have no idea what the laws are here about nitrous, that is something to consider and something that i would need to look into. i also think that the car would respond well to the nitrous up here at 5,000feet because the air is so thin and there is less oxygen up here. so i have a hunch that even a mild shot of nitrous would do wonders for the motor.

Chris

[Jeffvette]

the way i see it, initrous is the only way to get to the HP level i am looking for. i cant afford to spend 30 grand for a 415cid conversion to get me up past 600hp. plus MPG goes down the shitter when you do that anyway. so the extra cost of filling a bottle would probably be offset (atleast to some degree) by the extra fuel cost of driving a 415cid over a stock LT5 anyway. i know bottles are for babies and i traditionally shy away from it also. all im saying is that getting the power up to and above the 600hp mark with out it is prohibitively expensive by any other means. i thought about a centrifugal supercharger system but the motor has such a high compression ratio that i wouldn't dare run more than 5psi of boost which probably wouldn't be worth it HP wise. has anybody successfully tried to lower the compression? is it possible to increase the combustion chamber of the heads? are there thicker head gaskets out there? im guessing that the head gaskets are pretty limited. i have no idea what the laws are here about nitrous, that is something to consider and something that i would need to look into.

Chris

You would be quite surprised with your fuel mileage on a stroker car. Dwight still gets in the upper 20's with his 415 and 3:73 gears. I'll float around 30 with my 368 when I'm cruising the highway.

For changing the compression ratio, it can be done, but if you are doing that most people will upgrade to a 4 inch piston and go the 368. and Randy Woods does have a small blower he is putting the final touches on. Last time I talked to him he was in the final stages of the intercooler.

No thicker head gaskets, factory gaskets are getting limited, but are still out there.

[Chris_32212]

i certainly am not questioning what your saying but mathmatically that doesnt make sense. not to say it isn't still possible but bigger CID motors are moving a larger volume of air at the same RPM as a smaller CID. air fuel ratio's being equal, the smaller CID motor will move less air/fuel at the same RPM. i built a 600+hp 8200RPM 314CID SBC for my 73 camoro specifically for that reason. nice thing is that a different crank and rods and that motor would be 750hp 383:thumbsup:. maybe it has something to do with more torque at low RPM that helps to push the car down the free way in a very high 6th gear. you said it is possible to lower the compression but is it possible to do without pulling the motor? i more than likely would not attempt to do it if it requires pulling the motor. if the motor is out, it might as well get the bigger pistons you talked about and a good bottem end rebuild to freshen things up probably wouldn't be a bad idea. but all that starts getting expensive. there is no way i would pull the motor to do that unless i had to pull the motor for some other reason, say balancer. lol. with 92,000 miles i wouldn't be surprised if i end up needing to do that sometime in the next couple years. so i guess anything can happen. how much of a power/torque gain does the 368cid conversion net?

Chris

[jonszr1]

a good person to talk with about this is either jeff who has shared with you or corey henderson 210 867 6286@ henderson performance tec. both are 2 of the most respected builders of our engines . i know it sounds strange but what jeff has shared about the fuel milage with the strokers is very true and well shared among the folks here .he doesnt do anything other than tell it like it is . a 368 unshrouds the valves in our motors a decent 368 with porting can make between 460-500 rwhp depending on cam timming . believe me its plenty of power for a street car . going to 385 or 415 adds 5k at least to the bill due to the fact you need a different crank that has to be made 1 off by bryant or another custom crank builder . i would stay away from nitros as jeff has shared if it goes bad it gets ugly and expensive quick . nitros is a engine builders best friend . hope this helps

[Chris_32212]

yeah i appreciate it. i understand what you mean about nitrous not being very motor friendly but i also know that the guys that blow their motors using it are typically guys that have done something wrong. something driving wise or something in the nitrous setup was done incorrectly. i bought a book on nitrous so that i could understand it better however it doesn't have any suggestions for the LT5. lol. but i would rather use nitrous and take the chance of causing the NEED for a rebuild(in which case i would go big) then go spend 30grand on a conversion for fun. if i wanted to spend that kind of money on a car... sorry to say that it wouldn't be a corvette. i love corvettes and i love my ZR-1 but if money were not quite as tight for me right now, i would start an Ultima GTR project car. The Ultima is in a class of its own and there is nothing out there that can match its overall performance. 0-60? 2.6sec. 0-100mph in 3.6sec. 0-100-0mph in 9.4sec. for well less than a 15th of the price, it out performs the Veyron in every catagory. about a 10th the price of most world class super cars and its faster and out performs them all. did i mention its powerd by a small block chevy?

Chris

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i244/chris_32212/gtr68.jpg

[Zr1 Destroyer]

Do a nice nx wet kit and you'll be just fine with a 100-150 shot.....also get a bottle heater so your bottle hits hard every time. Other then that I'd say maybe invest in a cheap aem wide band to keep an eye on at the track!


If you have the cash I'd do the 415 cuber since the power is always on tap.......I had spray on my old 90 zr1 with ported heads and I will say it was fun on the cheap when compared to my stroker build.

[Chris_32212]

thanks for the tip on the wet system. i will look into. as far as the 415 conversion goes.. in my opinion its a waste of money. im sure its nice but for the price of the car + that conversion, 30k + 30k i could have a complete Ultima kit minus the motor (which i already have). another 30k would get the car delivered in rolling chassis form minus the motor. and like i said, it would dominate everything under the sun thats street leagal with 4 wheels at the auto x track. its even faster then the bullet bikes, not sure how it would fair against some of the highly midified bikes though but im guessing it would be close.

Chris

[Jeffvette]

thanks for the tip on the wet system. i will look into. as far as the 415 conversion goes.. in my opinion its a waste of money. im sure its nice but for the price of the car + that conversion, 30k + 30k i could have a complete Ultima kit minus the motor (which i already have). another 30k would get the car delivered in rolling chassis form minus the motor. and like i said, it would dominate everything under the sun that's street legal with 4 wheels at the auto x track. its even faster then the bullet bikes, not sure how it would fair against some of the highly modified bikes though but I'm guessing it would be close.

Chris

You do a stroker ZR-1 because you are insane and love the car. Nothing else. It is a disease/sickness that has no cure. People who do it never question themselves about doing. They forge ahead and never look back.

[Polo-1]

buy one already done with the stroker, you will be money ahead.

[Chris_32212]

i can understand that, i hope nobody is questioning my loyalty or passion for the ZR-1. i LOVE this car and its heritage and its legacy with all the records that it set especially the 24hour endurance record that it held for 12 years. but it has its limits no matter how much power you put in it, no matter how much money you throw into it.

buying a Z with a 415cid is a good idea. i actually looked at that idea when i was shopping for mine last year, problem was that i only remember seeing a couple of those cars for sale and they were listed at twice what i paid for my Z. i specifically remember one that was for sale for more then 40k and i bought my 93 for 19k. it would have been cheaper then buying mine and making that conversion but 40k was more than i was willing to spend on this car for the same reasons i have already listed.



Chris

[cward]

When I looked at your mods, I didn't see porting the IH's and plenuum. That is relatively cheap and goes with the standard model of air in, air out. You have the air out but limit the air in. Normally a Z with your mods plus the IH's and plenuum ported will get around 400 rwhp. To bring that to the 600 rwhp you mentioned, you would have to spray 200 - 225 shot. It can be done but you are taking a risk as it does put a strain on the engine. If you are careful, have a window switch, get a chip tuned and limit how often you use the spray, then the Z does come alive on the juice. Be careful though, it is addictive having that much power, even for short periods of time. Next, you want slicks and skinnies and things start breaking. Your goal of cheap power starts to fall apart about the same time as the clutch, trans, rearend, half-shafts and spindles.

Curtis

[Chris_32212]

i will look into having the intake porting done but i recall it being rather expensive for a minimal gain on my 93 with the better flowing IH then the previous 375hp LT5's.

Chris

[cward]

Not talking about the heads, just the IH's and plenuum. Should be less than $1000.00 and you should gain rwhp. Have you had your Z on a Dyno? Like I said, with your mods and with the porting on the intake side you should be at around 400 rwhp SAE. I can feel that you are asking yourself, how much hp gain. It depends on what you have now and how restricted your air intake is now. Since you have a '93 you might even be above 400 as your heads will flow a little better than the older heads. Porting the heads is expensive. I did not port my heads on my '91 and it ran pretty good on the street, strip and track.

Curtis

[Chris_32212]

i appreciate the info curtis. no dyno testing yet. i will look into porting for the intake a little more. thanks again. really any power adding suggestions (that aren't cost prohibitive) are welcome.:cheers:

Chris

[Jeffvette]

Not talking about the heads, just the IH's and plenuum. Should be less than $1000.00 and you should gain rwhp. Have you had your Z on a Dyno? Like I said, with your mods and with the porting on the intake side you should be at around 400 rwhp SAE. I can feel that you are asking yourself, how much hp gain. It depends on what you have now and how restricted your air intake is now. Since you have a '93 you might even be above 400 as your heads will flow a little better than the older heads. Porting the heads is expensive. I did not port my heads on my '91 and it ran pretty good on the street, strip and track.

Curtis

Curtis, no difference between the 90 and 93 heads as they are all Birmal castings.

He should be in the 400 rwhp ballpark with headers, porting and tune. But elevation will knock him down to the 390 or less range.

[flyin ryan]

i'm a naturally asperated guy all the way, so i'll stay out of this:happy1:. people think i don't like power adder combos at all, & that's not really the case. i don't do naturally asperated stuff because it's easy...i do it because it's hard. adding 10LBS. of boost or whatever doesn't really present much of a challenge for me, personaly. on the flip side if everyone was doing the same as me...well the world would be a boring place. for me...nat. aspr. stuff is intellectual intercourse, what can i say, it does it for me:dontknow:. do whatever your comfortable with Chris & we'll support you any way we can. have you looked into that rear mount turbo deal the boys are doing? they have it R&Ded. should be a slick deal.

[Chris_32212]

i read a mention of the rear mount turbo system in one of the registry newsletters but beyond its existence, i really dont know anything about it. i will look into it. i just got it back yesterday from having the exhaust and headers and light weight fly wheel put in. the car sounds amazing!!!:-D the car used to still pull hard in the upper RPM range but it felt like the car didn't want to rev past 6k. it would if i kept it in gear but after six, the RPM needle was quite sluggish in its climb and i think the altitude here has a big thing to do with that. now though i can visually see the RPM needle moving through the upper RPM range faster. infact, i bounced it off the 7200rpm rev limiter for the first time today. :redface: ...oops. lol.

Chris

[diamond zr1]

Chris/ I have a 364 inch motor in my 91 /dynos in the 440/450 range,gets 24mpg. with 4.10 gears/has complete jeal motor/runs hard over 4 grand/ as for turbos I just bought a 05 fidanza t.turbo car/they had the turbos on a stock ls2 with headers and made 625 h.p. before blowing it up. the new motor is a built 402 cu. in t.turbo 975 on a dyno,pulls like a freight train from 2 grand.While I love the twin turbo,roller cam sound,the zr1 sounds better.And whatever you do remember a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. joe

[Chris_32212]

Thanks for the input joe. :cheers: interesting information about still getting 24mpg with 4.10's you cant go wrong there. maybe i will consider a rear gear swap. is there any data to show how much a 4.10 gear setup decreases ET's?

Chris

[FU]

You do a stroker ZR-1 because you are insane and love the car. Nothing else. It is a disease/sickness that has no cure. People who do it never question themselves about doing. They forge ahead and never look back.

I have NO idea what you are talkin about Jeffy :eusa_shhh

[flyin ryan]

Thanks for the input joe. :cheers: interesting information about still getting 24mpg with 4.10's you cant go wrong there. maybe i will consider a rear gear swap. is there any data to show how much a 4.10 gear setup decreases ET's?

Chris4.10's will help out, considering your altitude into the equation. best bang for the buck, bar none;)

[Chris_32212]

i dont really want to loose any fuel mileage and it would be nice to keep the top speed capability up there although i will probably never use it... but 4.10's sound pretty fun. would really be interested to know what that upgrade would do for Elapsed Times.

Chris

[Chris_32212]

what about bigger injectors or a better ignition system?? would either be much of a HP gain?

Chris

[jonszr1]

i dont really want to loose any fuel mileage and it would be nice to keep the top speed capability up there although i will probably never use it... but 4.10's sound pretty fun. would really be interested to know what that upgrade would do for Elapsed Times.

Chrischris , i have 410s in my blk 90 with ported inj housings and plenum,jeal headers, spin tec exhaust with dr gas x pipe, fidanza flywheel , car on drs has run a couple of very high 11sec time , runs 12.10 30- @ 119.85 to 118.00 all day long. there are 6 vids of my car on u tube if you want to see what the result is . under bradley taylor zr1 @ famoso car gets 24-26 mpg on the freeway cruizing between 75-80 . i have 3.92s in my callaway 475 snat zr1 that just got headers runs about the same times but 3 mile an hr less and gets 25-28depending on if i have the cruize control on . the black car gets better gas milage now then when it was stk (22-24). on injectors you dont need bigger ones until you get into the 415 zone . there are those who own them who are running the same size as stk . if you have the factory inj still in you car getting them replaced really helps out . jeff would know better on the ignition if there is a way to upgrade it . hope this helps .:cheers: