Giving them away

[cuisinartvette]

Looks like my bucket is going to get full price....Bittersweet is an understatement.

See a lot of 20k mile cars selling for the same price range, I dont get it . A decent ZR1 shouldnt sell for less than 20k...Its a ZR1.

Cant fake em, cant clone em.

Sad to see them being dumped for nothing, the are really a special car, maybe they just become common place for us after while.

Thoughts?

[bobbyhi]

Ron, I have to agree with you. I don't know why the bottom has really fallen out for the Z's. Could it be that the NCRS boys want the stock ones and forget about the ones that have been modified? I would much rather have the mods that I have done than stock. We have a new Z here in town that is stock. When he starts it up you cannot hear the exhaust. What a waste. Too many will become trailer queens and demand a higher price. With over 68K on mine I won't get crap for it when it comes time sell. I figure in the next 20 years or so the Z's will become the '67 435's and demand a very high price. Just my thinking..........:)

[GOLDCYLON]

Could it be that the NCRS boys want the stock ones and forget about the ones that have been modified? :)

Nail on the head

[FU]

Could it be that the NCRS boys want the stock ones and forget about the ones that have been modified?

Put them away and save them for the next guy :dontknow: Could never see the point.
Or part them out...some cars are going for that cheap !
Life's short I'll mod mine and enjoy them. "F" the next guy routine !

Now.... back to your regularly scheduled program :dancing

[tomtom72]

They are special cars!

They just made too many the first coupla yrs. I think that has a lot to do with the 90's (specially the 90's) bringing any cash....unless it's a time capsule w/the wrappers still on the seat belts. Otherwise there are whats left out of the 3000+ cars made that yr.:(

As far as mods go....with the most common mods done how can you tell? P & P don't have any visable signs....headers are replacements for when your early welded on cats go south. I don't think that the NCRS can be blamed for much. There will always be some who want a bone stock car, and then there are the rest that want a car to use & enjoy.

I went to a cruise in last night up in Norwalk CT. Had to be 200 cars there, all kinds from rat rods to one of those C5 conversions to a C1, to superformance cobras & 427/C2's, and..........there were two 90 ZR-1's out of all those cars. Alot of times I go on a sunday AM to a place called Captree in the fall, gotta be 2-300 cars on a busy day at this place. Most times you can count the number of ZR-1's on one had & have fingers left over. There is another place I go on saturday afternoons in CT in Danbury...they get 200 cars solid at every meet....mostly I'm the only ZR-1 there 90% of the time...no B.S......these are special cars, Ron....trouble is they are mostly only special to those of us that own them.

Okay, rant off....:redface: I'll go take my meds now!:mrgreen:

[HADI-ZR1]

Ron, put one chik next to you when you want sell the Z, and price should go up!! :mrgreen:
if i had place and time for another Zr1 , i would pick Red one!

For you Ron.
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p183/hadi-zr1/DSC00533.jpg

[cuisinartvette]

trouble is they are mostly only special to those of us that own them.



Im guessing youre right..These things are pretty muchorgotten and many see them as another aging C4 with some strange motor. The latest and greatest out there isnt that much $ so maybe its just us enthusiasts left that appreciate them? Im all for being able to buy one reasonably but my God the lower mile cars Ive seen selling for 18, 20K I cant believe it yet a clean LT4 can sometimes bring the same money.
I know a guy out in Riverside Ca. an 800 mile black/black 90 that would be lucky to get 25k..Before things went south for me I came real close to buying it. So what if it needed a few grand sunk into it?
Yet nobody wants it, maybe a Z06 looksbetter as its newer and newer rules all?

To me, saving them for 10-20 yrs...By that time Il be too old to care and the maintenance, reg, ins would eat up any perceived profit IMO.
Whose to say the car wouldnt need a freshing up of interior, paint, etc by that time anyway? What do you gain really.

My hats are off to the guys driving them and modding....hell yeah!

[louispf]

They are special cars![code]

They just made too many the first coupla yrs. I think that has a lot to do with the 90's (specially the 90's) bringing any cash....unless it's a time capsule w/the wrappers still on the seat belts. Otherwise there are whats left out of the 3000+ cars made that yr.:(

As far as mods go....with the most common mods done how can you tell? P & P don't have any visable signs....headers are replacements for when your early welded on cats go south. I don't think that the NCRS can be blamed for much. There will always be some who want a bone stock car, and then there are the rest that want a car to use & enjoy.

I went to a cruise in last night up in Norwalk CT. Had to be 200 cars there, all kinds from rat rods to one of those C5 conversions to a C1, to superformance cobras & 427/C2's, and..........there were two 90 ZR-1's out of all those cars. Alot of times I go on a sunday AM to a place called Captree in the fall, gotta be 2-300 cars on a busy day at this place. Most times you can count the number of ZR-1's on one had & have fingers left over. There is another place I go on saturday afternoons in CT in Danbury...they get 200 cars solid at every meet....mostly I'm the only ZR-1 there 90% of the time...no B.S......these are special cars, Ron....trouble is they are mostly only special to those of us that own them.

Okay, rant off....:redface: I'll go take my meds now!:mrgreen:

In our arena, the registry & the zr1 forum we are our own worst enemy in devaluing our Z's. I was @ the Norwalk, Ct. event last night w/ Tom. The 2 of us parked next to each other. Within a couple minuets of parking & opening our hoods we were swamped with people asking tons of questions. Purest from the Hot Rod & Custom arenas were in awe. They were for the most part all familiar with the "King of the Hill" although none have ever seen one.. While answering tons of questions & educating our admirers they were all shocked that our cars are not selling for much more then what I had told them the going prices were. Go to the other forums & the other C groups never talk as smack about their Vettes as we do. I have been around Vettes since 1972 & have bought & sold my fair share & have seen it all. Ups & downs, recessions, skyrocketing markets. We need to have a positive response to the public about these cars & stop devaluing them to all that read our forums to educate themselves on rare & potentially appreciating automobiles. A rare stock automobile that is taken care will always be an investment that you can enjoy. We are to accustom to investments sky rocking overnight. A stock or bond that tanks can only be used for toilet paper, art that tanks can only be looked @ in disgust. A car can always be used or driven. These (our ZR1's) are the next Big Brake, Fuelie, Big Block Tri Powers & LT1's. But first we must all give them the respect that they rightfully deserve.:worship:

[Paul Workman]

:iamwithst

Very well said. My thoughts, zackly!:thumbsup:

P.

[Sihler]

:iamwithst

Just a week ago or so, on the other forum, somebody was asking what they should offer for a black '90 with less than 1000 miles on the clock that wouldn't start and hadn't been driven in a while, everyone was telling the guy that a '90 with less than 1000 miles was worth around $25-$28k, so he should offer $20-$25 'cause of the no-start issue. I took exception as I see ultra low mileage(sub 1000 miles) cars always selling above $30 grand, regardless of year. I couldn't believe that our own people were devaluing our cars right in front of my eyes. Those same people bitch and moan whenever someone sells one for cheap, unbelievable.

[tomtom72]

Okay, Lou is right.....kind of. May be we are our own worst detractors.

I know one thing for sure, though. As a relative noob, owner since 12/04, I never usually compare my 90 ZR-1 to much of anything made during the same time frame....except to turbo 911's or Testarossa's & cars like that. I don't even stop to consider any other domestic production cars vs a ZR-1. Mostly when I do the compare mine to yours thing; I'm comparing C5's & 6's...all of them, ZO6 et al....and all the stuff from Europe that costs twice as much as a new 90 ZR-1...and I learned that method from the senior ZR-1 owners, I hardly ever hear them rate their Z's to say an L98/LT1/LT4.

My point is that if you own a 90 Z, most of us measure our cars against what you can buy right now....whenever NOW is. That says quite a bit about our cars , which are at least 18 model yrs old right now!

Oh and my comment about the headers being a normal preventative maintenance thing.....I don't want my LT5 ingesting the results of my OEM cats suffering a catastrophic failure & taking my motor with them. That's my story & I'm sticking to it!:p

:D
Tom

[FU]

Lou's response should be printed in the Registry's next newsletter :thumbsup:

[Z Factor]

In our arena, the registry & the zr1 forum we are our own worst enemy in devaluing our Z's. I was @ the Norwalk, Ct. event last night w/ Tom. The 2 of us parked next to each other. Within a couple minuets of parking & opening our hoods we were swamped with people asking tons of questions. Purest from the Hot Rod & Custom arenas were in awe. They were for the most part all familiar with the "King of the Hill" although none have ever seen one.. While answering tons of questions & educating our admirers they were all shocked that our cars are not selling for much more then what I had told them the going prices were. Go to the other forums & the other C groups never talk as smack about their Vettes as we do. I have been around Vettes since 1972 & have bought & sold my fair share & have seen it all. Ups & downs, recessions, skyrocketing markets. We need to have a positive response to the public about these cars & stop devaluing them to all that read our forums to educate themselves on rare & potentially appreciating automobiles. A rare stock automobile that is taken care will always be an investment that you can enjoy. We are to accustom to investments sky rocking overnight. A stock or bond that tanks can only be used for toilet paper, art that tanks can only be looked @ in disgust. A car can always be used or driven. These (our ZR1's) are the next Big Brake, Fuelie, Big Block Tri Powers & LT1's. But first we must all give them the respect that they rightfully deserve.:worship:


:iamwithst

Just a week ago or so, on the other forum, somebody was asking what they should offer for a black '90 with less than 1000 miles on the clock that wouldn't start and hadn't been driven in a while, everyone was telling the guy that a '90 with less than 1000 miles was worth around $25-$28k, so he should offer $20-$25 'cause of the no-start issue. I took exception as I see ultra low mileage(sub 1000 miles) cars always selling above $30 grand, regardless of year. I couldn't believe that our own people were devaluing our cars right in front of my eyes. Those same people bitch and moan whenever someone sells one for cheap, unbelievable.

Good thread and posts. :thumbsup:

It is a dilemma we face when trying to advise people what value our ZR-1's have. For instance I would never sell mine in the current market, yet I am quick to advise people looking for one that this is the time to buy. I try not to be guilty of under valuing them, but I also try to give accurate information. I remember when I first bought mine, I got it for what I considered a steal, yet found that some felt I should not announce it to everyone since it hurt us all in the long run. After some thought I agreed with that thinking and now keep my original purchase price to myself.
I do believe ZR-1's will go up in value, and tell people that on a regular basis. The only question is how long it will take for it to happen. Like everyone else I hope it happens sooner that later, even though I have no intention to sell.

:cheers:

[Tim]

When I bought my Z I did'nt consider it to be a money making investment. As a friend once told me " It sits in your garage, something happens to you, your estate sells it for nothing, what have you got. So go and enjoy it." I bought it for market at the time and was happy with the price. Just got it back from Marc after investing a S$$$ load of money doing the p & p, headers, injectors, and some other items. Love the increase in power. 414 at the tire. I to am a little distressed at the current market and understand I"ll never recover the $ I put into it, but the pleasure my wife and I get from it is worth something as well. Have kept the stock parts but you can't undo the p&p oh well. I guess the point is to enjoy these " Special" cars as much as you can ,as long as you can, and if and when you have to sell, do the best you can at the time and don"t look back. If we sell cheap they will continue that trend. Agreed this is a buyers market now and I don't see it changing anytime soon so get out the and drive them.

[DaveK]

When I first fell in love with the ZR-1 - all of 18 years ago now - I never for one second dreamed of stuffing it in a garage in cotton wool balls, I dreamed of driving it. Cruising around, giiving it hell, just going places. All driving, but never just to look at.

As for the pricing. I paid market for mine last year and was happy to do so. Let's face it though - your economy is in the tank at the moment , thats got to have a huge knock on effect everywhere. The ZR-1 is also little known outside the fairly small circle of us who are enthusiasts. I imagine eventually the prices will rise again - and probably reach levels where I wouldn't be able to afford one again :-D

Just enjoy your car, enjoy it the way you want to, keep it stock, mod it to hell and back. Just enjoy the fact that you own one of the best 'vettes ever built, a legend that still reverberates 18 years after it was created and the fact that you took the road less well travelled.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

[tccrab]

Just enjoy your car, enjoy it the way you want to, keep it stock, mod it to hell and back. Just enjoy the fact that you own one of the best 'vettes ever built, a legend that still reverberates 18 years after it was created and the fact that you took the road less well travelled.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

:worship::worship::worship:

Damn.
Just Damn.
Truer words have never been spoken.
TomC

[jonszr1]

to me , quite simply i fell in love with this car 5 years ago when i got the blk one . have put 80 miles on her with the only problem being the tranny.i dont even think of owning another car . to me my 2 zr1s are the last cars i will ever own . they are so special words cant convey how great they are . one day others will see how special they are .

[8upZR1]

I for one believe that the current going price for ZR1's is excellent. If you look at other cars from the early 90's that sold for similar $$ you will see that ZR1's are holding their price nicely. Right now the prices are just about as low as they are going to get. In a few years the price will start going up cause the car will be a classic, but 18 years just isn't enough time. Cars from the 90's just aren't cool yet. Give it till they turn 25 or 30 and then the price will come around. Today, for slightly more cash than a ZR1 you can find yourself in a MY 2000 Z06 or equivalently potent performer. When you look at a ZR1 next to a C5 or C6, especially a Z06, it just doesn't make sense to buy the ZR1, even if the initial cost is less. The C5 and C6 vettes are light years ahead of the C4 in both engine and chassis and everything in between. I dunno if anyone remembers but nobody liked the C4 vette and nobody bought them. At least not in the numbers that people buy C5 and C6s. When you read car magazines from the early 90's the biggest complaints about the C4 were interior, exterior, styling, power, suspension, brakes, EVERYTHING!!! When the C5 came out everybody said, "HURRAH! the Corvette will not go out of production yet!!"
The C5 was truely a leap ahead from the C4 and the market reflects this. If anyone is to blame it is the designers of the C5. If they had done their jobs as ussual then the ZR1 would still be the fastest Vette ever made.

With the prices so low it is feasible to purchase a complete car just for parts, as parts are not only limited, but they are always going to be $$$.

If you bought a new ZR1 and have stored it diligently with the intent of getting rich I would say that the prices are exactly what you deserve. Storage = death to a car. I have driven lots and lots of really fast and expensive cars that were put in storage and they never seem to be as fast as you remember them being when they were new. A car will go to SHite in front of your eyes if it is not driven. Neglect is worse for an LT5 than abusive driving habits.

[cuisinartvette]

Looks like my bucket is still available -someones wife was less than happy about it .


:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:


Marriage...you guys can have it.


Ugh.

[louispf]

I for one believe that the current going price for ZR1's is excellent. If you look at other cars from the early 90's that sold for similar $$ you will see that ZR1's are holding their price nicely. Right now the prices are just about as low as they are going to get. In a few years the price will start going up cause the car will be a classic, but 18 years just isn't enough time. Cars from the 90's just aren't cool yet. Give it till they turn 25 or 30 and then the price will come around. Today, for slightly more cash than a ZR1 you can find yourself in a MY 2000 Z06 or equivalently potent performer. When you look at a ZR1 next to a C5 or C6, especially a Z06, it just doesn't make sense to buy the ZR1, even if the initial cost is less. The C5 and C6 vettes are light years ahead of the C4 in both engine and chassis and everything in between. I dunno if anyone remembers but nobody liked the C4 vette and nobody bought them. At least not in the numbers that people buy C5 and C6s. When you read car magazines from the early 90's the biggest complaints about the C4 were interior, exterior, styling, power, suspension, brakes, EVERYTHING!!! When the C5 came out everybody said, "HURRAH! the Corvette will not go out of production yet!!"
The C5 was truely a leap ahead from the C4 and the market reflects this. If anyone is to blame it is the designers of the C5. If they had done their jobs as ussual then the ZR1 would still be the fastest Vette ever made.

With the prices so low it is feasible to purchase a complete car just for parts, as parts are not only limited, but they are always going to be $$$.

If you bought a new ZR1 and have stored it diligently with the intent of getting rich I would say that the prices are exactly what you deserve. Storage = death to a car. I have driven lots and lots of really fast and expensive cars that were put in storage and they never seem to be as fast as you remember them being when they were new. A car will go to SHite in front of your eyes if it is not driven. Neglect is worse for an LT5 than abusive driving habits.
:blahblah::blahblah::blahblah::blahblah: Here we go again. If our Vette the beloved marque does not have a next generation that enhances it's existence then it would have been extinct. Every generation has to improve on the previous. It is not always tied to sheer speed & performance. There needs to be gaps @ times that lead our Vettes to be more luxurious & catch up to our personal comfortable tastes. In 78 a new Pace Car would get more $$ than a 67 435 big block. Let me take this one step farther @ this point in time it was almost impossible to find a complete original 67 435 tri power. Why? Because @ that point of time it was not the holy grail. There are more 435's kicking around now then made (almost). Ask for the documentation & you will get every story under the sun why is not available. Matching #'s. Anybody that has stamps & a steady hand can do that. Our Z's are a different story. It can not be duplicated through reproduction. In valuing any car against the model ahead & it's improvements is what the classic car market has been built on. But, for some of the near sighted ZR1 owners this seems to be an issue. I challenge all of you to give me a Corvette model superior to the ZR1 previously. This my friends is the role model of a marque. 53, 56, 63, 68, 84, 90ZR1 & 97 are marque years for the Vette. Any other improvements to the car during this period is an enhancement of an existing model. :worship:

[FU]

:blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:


Marriage...you guys can have it.


Ugh.
I like it. The woman is a saint.....

[JThomas]

I'm new to the forum and recently purchased my '92 Z in April of this year. I always wanted a ZR-1, but in 1992 I wasn't able to spend the $66,000 the car cost back then. Things are different today. I purchased my car for a decent price, IMO, considering it is now a very high mileage car. My plan is to refurbish it over the new two years. Currently it is running properly and the next item on the list is to clean up the interior, but for the rest of this summer I'll drive it and have fun.

I didn't buy the car as an investment, it was purchased because I always wanted one to simply enjoy. Plus it's a nice stable mate for my '07 Z!

Save the Wave

[White Bullet]

Please, a car as an investment? The ZR1 is an absolute blast. However it is still a car will decrease in value. Now in the future when the sampling of cars is smaller, nostalgia and availability will drive the value up. But what I see in the vintage cars from the past that sell for top dollar is they have been restored. That generally means that most if not all of the car has been disassembled, parts repaired or replaced and then it is put back together in stock form. This in itself is time consuming and costly. So if you bought a car stored and drove it very little I am sure when you sell it as prices go up that you will get your money back. In order to achieve the highest price this same car with very little mileage will still need to be restored as time will take its toll on a car even if it does not move. This is one investment that I plan to drive until I die, as they say you can't take it with you. I will get the most out of it for me which is to drive it. That is what I expect out my investment on this car and I could give a rat's a:censored: what it is worth to someone else as IT NOT FOR SALE. See you on the highway. :thumbsup:

[louispf]

Please, a car as an investment? The ZR1 is an absolute blast. However it is still a car will decrease in value. Now in the future when the sampling of cars is smaller, nostalgia and availability will drive the value up. But what I see in the vintage cars from the past that sell for top dollar is they have been restored. That generally means that most if not all of the car has been disassembled, parts repaired or replaced and then it is put back together in stock form. This in itself is time consuming and costly. So if you bought a car stored and drove it very little I am sure when you sell it as prices go up that you will get your money back. In order to achieve the highest price this same car with very little mileage will still need to be restored as time will take its toll on a car even if it does not move. This is one investment that I plan to drive until I die, as they say you can't take it with you. I will get the most out of it for me which is to drive it. That is what I expect out my investment on this car and I could give a rat's a:censored: what it is worth to someone else as IT NOT FOR SALE. See you on the highway. :thumbsup:
I have friends that have made alot of money on cars especially Corvettes of every generation. If everyone maintains the depreciating story & Z's are special cars in the breath this is very confusing to all that are reading in forum considering the purchase of one & is trying to educate oneself. Back in the early ninety's some felt that the 76 through 82 were throw away Vettes & would never have appreciative value. Now they are being restored & sold. There is a guy that I meet @ a cruise in the early spring that had bought a body off 77 for 25 Grand. I asked him why? Because he always wanted one & it was a new Vette @ half the price. The Z I just got from Phrogs is just short of a body off. Johnny addressed all the issues. So there is someone out here with a restored Z. The car had short of 62K on the speedo @ completion. Someone had to be the first to do this. Thank-you again Johnny for an outstanding job.:thumbsup:

[Sihler]

Please, a car as an investment? The ZR1 is an absolute blast. However it is still a car will decrease in value. Now in the future when the sampling of cars is smaller, nostalgia and availability will drive the value up. But what I see in the vintage cars from the past that sell for top dollar is they have been restored. That generally means that most if not all of the car has been disassembled, parts repaired or replaced and then it is put back together in stock form. This in itself is time consuming and costly. So if you bought a car stored and drove it very little I am sure when you sell it as prices go up that you will get your money back. In order to achieve the highest price this same car with very little mileage will still need to be restored as time will take its toll on a car even if it does not move. This is one investment that I plan to drive until I die, as they say you can't take it with you. I will get the most out of it for me which is to drive it. That is what I expect out my investment on this car and I could give a rat's a:censored: what it is worth to someone else as IT NOT FOR SALE. See you on the highway. :thumbsup:

Actually, original examples, unrestored and in good condition, sometimes even in average condition sell for much more than restored examples.