E85 Conversion?

[DaveK]

Just curious, with all the talk about renewable fuels and so on would it be possible to convert an LT5 to run on E85?

Casting my mind back to my alcohol dragster days it would certainly need bigger injectors - I seem to remember you need about 30% more fuel in there with alcohol. So that could have cascade effects on the whole fuel delivery/pump system. Then there's potential problems with seals etc. Not to mention issues with the breakdown of lubrication.

What do you guys think? Any one done any experimenting in this line?

[A26B]

I don't think it would be worth the trouble, let alone the problems with alcohol/fuel systems reactivity and water solubility issues and accompanying corrosion problems.


Car & Driver Article exerpt:
On E85 fuel efficiency:


We did a comparison test of two fuels, regular gasoline (87 octane) and E85 (100 to 105 octane). Our test vehicle was a flex-fuel 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe 4WD LT powered by a 5.3-liter V-8 hooked to a four-speed automatic transmission.

We tested acceleration using both fuels and our standard procedures, then we measured fuel economy at steady speeds of 30, 50, and 70 mph around a 2.5-mile oval test track, three runs at each speed that were averaged to produce the numbers you see in the accompanying charts. The fuel-economy results were calculated using the vehicle’s onboard computer.

We began the test with the Tahoe running on E85 fuel and later drove the SUV until its tank was as empty as we dared, and in that way we were able to flush the tank of almost all the ethanol. Then we refilled the tank with regular gasoline and repeated our procedures. All testing was done in two-wheel-drive mode. The results are shown here.

Differences in acceleration times were insignificant (although GM says E85 improves horsepower by as much as three percent). On the downside, the fuel economy on E85 was diminished more than 30 percent in two of the three tests, about what we expected. The EPA’s numbers suggest that fuel economy worsens by 28 percent on E85 compared with regular gas. On any Tahoe equipped with a 5.3-liter V-8, the E85 flex-fuel feature is a no-cost option, but running E85 reduces the driving range from roughly 390 miles a tank to about 290.

[Jeffvette]

On the downside, the fuel economy on E85 was diminished more than 30 percent in two of the three tests, about what we expected. The EPA’s numbers suggest that fuel economy worsens by 28 percent on E85 compared with regular gas. On any Tahoe equipped with a 5.3-liter V-8, the E85 flex-fuel feature is a no-cost option, but running E85 reduces the driving range from roughly 390 miles a tank to about 290.


And that is actually reflected on the window sticker. Think about how much effort it takes to make E85, and then on top of that you are losing mpg.

[DaveK]

I know the economics of E85 are 'suspect' at best. Yet another politically motivated "let's pretend we're doing something" move. But if a way of creating ethanol more cost effectively could be found it might work - for instance a company recently claimed it had a process that would turn any organic material, waste etc. into ethanol at a substantially lower cost and energy useage.

If that turned out to be the case it would shift the balance in favour of ethanol-based fuels.

[kenthompson]

Ahh screw it.

Take it to a 415, raise the CR to 16:1 and put it on METHANOL!

I love the smell of formaldehyde in the morning. Smells like....VICTORY!

[petefias]

E85 - Only in America, the land of the free. Where even bad ideas have a chance to prove themselves wrong.

[Aurora40]

GM has mentioned some new way of making ethanol from waste products instead of from corn and such grown specifically for it. It's supposed to make ethanol more viable.

Edit: oh, DaveK mentioned that...

[A26B]

GM has mentioned some new way of making ethanol from waste products instead of from corn and such grown specifically for it. It's supposed to make ethanol more viable.

Edit: oh, DaveK mentioned that...

All of these alternative energy sources depend on the price of oil & natural gas for their economic viability. Producing ethanol requires a significant amount of energy for the distillation process alone. The cost differential between cultivated sources and waste is a minor component of the overall expense. Even though "waste" sounds like a freebie, gathering, storage and processing for use means it isn't "free."

For the forseeable future (this afternoon :sign10: ) ethanol is more of a political football carried by agricultural lobbyists than and economically viable alternative to conventional hydrocarbon fuels. Federal and state subsidies will be the most likely source of production cost relief for ethanol.

Just my humble opinion,

[phrogs]

It blows me away the way the govenment talks all this **** about fuel and emissions. Damn I burn up thousands of gallons of jp-5 in a few hours of flying around training.

we load up to 11500 lbs of fuel for 4 hours of flying that means we have about


thats right at 1716 gallons of fuel used in 4 hours

whats my miles per gallon? :sign10:

[petefias]

Simply there isn't enough "waste" material that would make a dent. Once you start to "harvest" anything it is not "waste" and ecological factors come into play. In today's world only the politicians have a free lunch.

[RHanselman]

I can burn that in 2 hrs or if I stay in afterburner I can burn it in 11 min's. :)

It blows me away the way the govenment talks all this **** about fuel and emissions. Damn I burn up thousands of gallons of jp-5 in a few hours of flying around training.

we load up to 11500 lbs of fuel for 4 hours of flying that means we have about


thats right at 1716 gallons of fuel used in 4 hours

whats my miles per gallon? :sign10:

[LGAFF]

Hey leadfoot,

lighten up, you just burned up damn near what I pay in taxes each year in a few minutes. I think we should all get a ride since we're pickin up the bill. I am headed to Bloomington MN tomorrow, pick me up at 8am. I'm across the street from Lake in the Hills airport, we'll see how good you are with landing.
:mrgreen:

LGAFF
92 ZR1
#234

[rkreigh]

for starters you would be replacing the fuel system to include pumps, injectors, and anything not suitable in the fuel system

also a headache would be the calibration, doable, but not been done yet.

it sure works well with turbos though and might enable the stock compression ratio to work well with some relatively serious boost!!

some of the heavy hitters are running turbos and E85. the higher octane and detonation resistance can make the "juice worth the squeeze"

I agree about E85 not being a good deal to replace dino fuel.

problem is, gas is getting more expensive all the time. but if you remove the "federal subsidies" from E85 it would cost just as much and not take you nearly as far as you need to burn about 30-40% more

pure alchy has about .6 the energy of gas

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