"Water Wetter" Truth or fiction?

[Paul Workman]

I have just enough formal physics education to be real dangerous, or at least very skeptical at times. So, my "BS" antenna is up whenever I hear claims about additives like "Water Wetter" (WW) enhancing engine cooling.
I'm gonna go away now and do some research and maybe some experimenting, but this is what gets me to :icon_scra and thinking :thumbsdo::

Fact: Water is a compound that has a very high "specific heat" factor. The higher the "specific heat" factor, the more heat (calories) it will absorb to raise its temperature by a given amount, and the more heat it will carry: like a sponge holds liquid, water holds heat. This is a good thing for a coolant to do.

Fact: The bigger the heat differential between two materials (the radiator and air, in this case) the faster (and more) heat will transfer.

Fact: Coolant temperature is an indirect method of determining engine heat: the temperature of the engine surfaces is the "real deal", but because we're so familiar with engine temp in terms of standard water coolant temp characterisitics, we take it for granted. The point is, if it ain't a well known comodity, i.e. "water" (50/50 antifreeze), then all bets are off as to actual engine metal temp/ effectiveness in the presence of an unknown coolant. My point is, colant temp changes claimed by the makers of the WW is not proof of better cooling, due to the fact measuring coolant temp is an indirect measurement of engine surfaces.

If the WW does NOT combine with the water to form a new compound, and thereby altering it's specific heat (raising it), then the 6-12 oz of the WW stuff would have more of a placebo effect (on the purchaser) than actual heat transfer effectiveness.

But, if the WW does in fact form a new compound with the water/glycol solution, one that is more efficient (read: higher specific heat factor), then perhaps it might well carry heat away more efficiently. A simple experiment could be conducted to prove or disprove WW's ability to transfer heat... Is it golden, or is it snake oil? I dunno, but "Ahl be back!"

P.

[DMark]

Dang Paul...., this sure hurts my liberal arts degree brain. :???:

What I understand is - Green Stuff Good - Orange Stuff Bad.

[Bill]

I had a little different take on ww and cooling systems. First the best coolant is pure water. Antifreeze is added to reduce corrosion and to change freezing and boiling points. The addition of antifreeze actually reduces the specific heat capacity of water. WW reduces the surface tension of the water so that when localized boiling happens the size of the bubbles will be smaller, allowing more water to get to the hot surface.

I’m looking forward to the results of your research.

[Z Factor]

It has worked for me in reducing temperature.

http://zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=645

:cheers:

[carter200]

I had a little different take on ww and cooling systems. First the best coolant is pure water. Antifreeze is added to reduce corrosion and to change freezing and boiling points. The addition of antifreeze actually reduces the specific heat capacity of water. WW reduces the surface tension of the water so that when localized boiling happens the size of the bubbles will be smaller, allowing more water to get to the hot surface.

I’m looking forward to the results of your research.

No, Bill, the best coolant is distilled water. WW enhances the effects and works. Only about a 10 degree drop. Better than none in my book.....

[Paul Workman]

It has worked for me in reducing temperature.

http://zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=645

:cheers:

Your results are interesting - 'cooler' you say. But, were the before/after conditions exactly the same? Was the block cooler or was the coolant cooler?...That is the kind of stuff that has me wondering. :icon_scra

So, w/o casting dispursions on any particular wetting agent, so many times the product testing procedrues are so badly flawed (or manipulated) that the degree of ambiguity in the data collected would not support a valid conclusion. (Anybody wanna give me $200 for a Q-ray bracelet???)

Maybe a topic for the program, "Myth Busters", huh?:mrgreen:

P.

[tomtom72]

I think if you read the WW bottle it performs best when mixed with just distilled water as a coolant. Any anti-freeze in the solution reduces the effects of the WW.

I was using it for a while and found to get noticable results, via the temp gauges, I had to lower the conc of 1825M down to where it would only protect to 5*C.....kind of useless in NYC if we get a real cold snap.

My eventual solution was to make & install the intake screen.
Flush & refill every two yrs with a new T-stat(OEM) & 1825-M.
I cleaned the cooling stack, rad and condensor fins of sand and ofcourse the leafs & candy wrappers:mrgreen:
My side tank clamps were a bit loose so I cinched up the tank clamps, don't know if that did anything as there were no liquid leak trails.
Last step will be to buy better fans and maybe one of those super radiators when my OE one pops. I hear the plastic tanks crack eventually?

If you don't have to worry about freezing, I'd use the WW + distilled water + just enough 1825-M to protect the metal from corrosion...it would proly work well. JMHO

:cheers:
Tom

[flyin ryan]

I had a little different take on ww and cooling systems. First the best coolant is pure water. Antifreeze is added to reduce corrosion and to change freezing and boiling points. The addition of antifreeze actually reduces the specific heat capacity of water. WW reduces the surface tension of the water so that when localized boiling happens the size of the bubbles will be smaller, allowing more water to get to the hot surface.

I’m looking forward to the results of your research.:iamwithst, basically WW kills bubbles, in a nut shell. the wild claims of 30°-40° drop in temperature are just that...wild. it's good stuff, just don't expect too much.

[rogerzr1]

Man, I had a hard enough time finding a coolant I was sure wouldn't blow the head gasket. Now you guys throw all of this in the mix.

Just when I think I am catching on you guys throw me curve balls.:o

[bradslt5]

wait untill you get a phil nekro knuckle ball:wink: there is always some new stuff to learn . but remember its like golf you think toooo much ya cant play the game .in fo is out there to chew on and decide if ya want to try it or not . kinda fun really

[Jeffvette]

:iamwithst, basically WW kills bubbles, in a nut shell. the wild claims of 30°-40° drop in temperature are just that...wild. it's good stuff, just don't expect too much.


So for shits and giggles, put a pot on the stove filled with distilled water, raise the temp to 180 degrees then pour in some WW. Does the temp change?

[Jagdpanzer]

wait untill you get a phil nekro knuckle ball:wink:
Phil's and Joe's spitters were even better
Those were the good old days.
Don't see those kind pitchers anymore in the majors.

[Aurora40]

So for shits and giggles, put a pot on the stove filled with distilled water, raise the temp to 180 degrees then pour in some WW. Does the temp change?
I don't think that is what they are claiming it does.

Fact: Coolant temperature is an indirect method of determining engine heat: the temperature of the engine surfaces is the "real deal", but because we're so familiar with engine temp in terms of standard water coolant temp characterisitics, we take it for granted. The point is, if it ain't a well known comodity, i.e. "water" (50/50 antifreeze), then all bets are off as to actual engine metal temp/ effectiveness in the presence of an unknown coolant. My point is, colant temp changes claimed by the makers of the WW is not proof of better cooling, due to the fact measuring coolant temp is an indirect measurement of engine surfaces.
Well, if you have the same engine, the engine heat is the same. So if you change the coolant, unknown or not, and the engine that outputs the same heat heats the coolant up less, isn't it fairly safe to say the coolant transfers heat more efficiently? Unless your concern is that the coolant maybe doesn't transfer heat at all, and so it is fairly cool even though the engine is burning up?

It's a well-known fact, not unknown, that 100% water has more specific heat than 50% water/50% ethelyne glycol. So presumably if water wetter lets you safely run almost 100% water (3 gallons of water, 12 ounces of WW or whatever) then your cooling system will be more efficient.

I've never used the stuff though. The main reason is that I've never needed to. My Z can maintain it's desired temperature just fine. I've never had it happen that the fans kicking on could not bring the temperature down. So the heat transfer ability of the coolant is not a problem. And 50/50 coolant has a huge body of data surrounding it in terms of its affect on engine life, water pump life, etc. There is little risk in using it. Water Wetter on the other hand, who knows. Plus, Water Wetter, as you are only using a small amount, couldn't possibly alter the freezing or boiling points of the water as much as a 50% additive could. And I drive my car year 'round. So using 50/50 coolant is a no-brainer.

If you are having some issue with cooling capability, I would suggest troubleshooting the system and fixing the issue rather than changing coolants as the initial approach. :)

[bradslt5]

So for shits and giggles, put a pot on the stove filled with distilled water, raise the temp to 180 degrees then pour in some WW. Does the temp change?I agre with the idea to a point . to be fair wouldnt the system have to be a closed test. like in a pressure cooker to give the test a condition like an engine cooling system . if you just put it in anopen container like a pot on a stove evaporation would not give the test a fair comparison . jmho

[cuisinartvette]

I noticed 0 difference except a lighter wallet. Drained the stuff out and put coolant back in.