I Think I Want a C4 ZR-1

[RichieDMD]

So, I'm thinking about venturing into the world of Corvette's for the first time...but there are a lot of unknowns for me so I thought I would ask some questions and try and better understand these cars.

Full disclosure, I'm a lifelong Camaro guy. I have always had a Camaro as my daily driver (a 1996 3.8L through high school/college followed by a 2002 SS 35th Anniversary LS1 M6 for the last 12 years). My dream car was and is a 1969 Camaro. I bought one in 2003 right out of high school and owned it until last year. I worked on it and did my best to take care of it...but with college, grad school, career, wife, kids, ect. the money wasn't there to do what I wanted with it and the car just sat. I decided I should sell it and get something a little more modern and reliable for a weekend car. My kids wanted to take it to local car shows and I just felt that with little kids...something easier to manage was a better option. So, I sold the '69 (and I plan to get another someday) and bought a car off the "list" of cars I had always wanted.

So, I bought, you guessed it...a Camaro. I bought a 1993 Camaro Indy 500 Pace Car and I really liked it...at first. I love how it looks and I love the attention I get (and the kids love it too)...but I don't love driving it. I quickly realized that because it was the same generation as my daily driver (a 2002 LS1 car) that it felt very much the same...except it was slower, an automatic (like all the pace cars), and had a far worse ride and feel. There was nothing "new" about driving it for me...it was basically just a worse more boring version of the car I drive every day. As a result, I don't drive it very often. After one year of ownership...I'm ready for something else.

So, I have been giving that "something else" a lot of thought. I still want something more modern (so not a vintage carbureted car) that is gonna be simpler to maintain as I have a lot on my plate right now. I thought maybe an early Viper...but I've never been a Dodge guy. I love 1990s cars since I was a kid back then and I keep going back to the C4 ZR-1. I remember them as a kid...they were American Supercars. The more I look at them now, the more I like the look. They have aged well (at least in my opinion)...and the price is so reasonable for them. They are a steal.

Now, I have never owned a Corvette. But the more I think about them, the more I think a C4 ZR-1 is exactly the right "next car" for me to get...to replace the Pace Car Camaro. I love the history and the story behind the Lotus designed motor, I like the uniqueness of the car (I always want something a little "different" even if its subtle)...and I think that the C4 ZR-1 fits that.

I guess what I am looking for is just good general references. Build numbers, options, ect. I want to really learn about these cars. My guess is I will keep the Pace Car through this summer and then look to sell it. That also gives me time to save a little cash because the ZR-1 is a bit more expensive. What quirks do they have? What issues should I watch out for? Is there major differences in the different years? Any advice for someone who wants to dive into this car with no Corvette experience. I'm really just out to learn about the car right now so when the time is right I can make an informed decision.



Thanks.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

As with all collector cars, buying the best that you can afford within the budget you set is a good idea.
The better the car is so start with, the likelihood that you will be pleased with it increases.
90's are the most plentiful, and because of that, all else equal, will save you money without giving anything up.
Buy a color that you love, as it needs to be the dream car you see in your dreams.
Get help from a knowledgeable owner in your area, or actually near the car you are considering.
Better to have their years of experience working for you rather than trying to instantly learn everything.
Start your search on the ZR-1 net Registry Forum.
Members cars are typically much better maintained, and most members have no interest in selling a problem child without either fixing it or disclosing what needs attention.
ASK FOR HELP HERE!!!
Best of luck!!!
The search is always fun!!!!
:cheers:
Marty

[dredgeguy]

If you want to dive in, join us in Bowling Green May 13-16 for the C4 Gathering. Many members of the ZR-1 Net Registry will be there with our cars. Best to drive different years and with different mods to give you the full picture. Next would be at Corvettes at Carlisle in August at Carlisle, PA. Not close to you but worth the flight. The group of people at the ZR-1 Net Registry are the main reason I love my car....get the car and get lifelong friends.

[RichieDMD]

As with all collector cars, buying the best that you can afford within the budget you set is a good idea.
The better the car is so start with, the likelihood that you will be pleased with it increases.
90's are the most plentiful, and because of that, all else equal, will save you money without giving anything up.
Buy a color that you love, as it needs to be the dream car you see in your dreams.
Get help from a knowledgeable owner in your area, or actually near the car you are considering.
Better to have their years of experience working for you rather than trying to instantly learn everything.
Start your search on the ZR-1 net Registry Forum.
Members cars are typically much better maintained, and most members have no interest in selling a problem child without either fixing it or disclosing what needs attention.
ASK FOR HELP HERE!!!
Best of luck!!!
The search is always fun!!!!
:cheers:
Marty
Thanks for the info! I figured that the 1990s would be the least expensive as they made more of them. Were there any issues with the 1990 cars to watch out for...that were fixed as a few years of production went by?



I know that in 1993 they increased the performance slightly...but were any actual major changes made?


Part of me wants to look for a 1990 because that was the first year...the first true American Supercar. Then again, a later one has more power (slightly) and I assume some upgrades and improvements.


My interest is a mostly original car. Color...I know I'm going to want either red or back...probably red.


Where they all 6-speeds (which is what I want) or will I have to avoid some automatics? Also, I know they didn't make convertibles but I have seen some with the Targa Top. Where they all Targa top's or were some hard tops?

[RichieDMD]

What Dredgeguy said too! 11343

By the way, a Member here (ITLGO2) Keith is giving away his Black 90 with Haibeck 500 package for $23K if you don’t mind black. His car is modified with all the stuff we already love for show and go. He must have more than double his asking price in the car. His LT5 is highly polished with diapers like chrome. You can see photos and videos on Registry Facebook. It also has one of a kind Cragar Thruster old school style wheels. Check it out!! [emoji1303]🤙🏼


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)
I wish I was ready to make the move. I need to sell my Pace Car first and save some additional cash. I'm probably a year away...right now I need to learn about the cars. I'm going to take the Pace Car to the local shows this summer then sell it.

[WARP TEN]

Thanks for the info! I figured that the 1990s would be the least expensive as they made more of them. Were there any issues with the 1990 cars to watch out for...that were fixed as a few years of production went by?



I know that in 1993 they increased the performance slightly...but were any actual major changes made?


Part of me wants to look for a 1990 because that was the first year...the first true American Supercar. Then again, a later one has more power (slightly) and I assume some upgrades and improvements.


My interest is a mostly original car. Color...I know I'm going to want either red or back...probably red.


Where they all 6-speeds (which is what I want) or will I have to avoid some automatics? Also, I know they didn't make convertibles but I have seen some with the Targa Top. Where they all Targa top's or were some hard tops?

Hi Richie--

I no longer have a ZR-1 but owned two and miss them to this day. Yes they were all 6 speed manuals, the early cars with a somewhat awkward lift ring reverse lockout, the 94 and 95s with just a push detent. A few cars have been converted to automatics. All were Targa top coupes; some came with just one top and some with two, a painted one and a transparent one. My '93 ZR-1 had one top, painted. The '95 came with two tops and I never once put the second one on. While some sellers hype a two top car, I personally would not worry about one with only one top. When I ordered my new 2016 Z06 coupe I specified only one top.

You will have your own preferences, but I will relate my approach to my ZR-1 hunts. In 1993 I first decided I wanted a ZR-1 for all the same reasons you have mentioned. First I joined the ZR-1 Registry, essentially a predecessor to the ZR-1 Net Registry, to gather information. You are correct that most (about 80%) of the ZR-1s were made in 1990 and 1991 and as a result you may or may not get a better price on one than later cars. Depends on condition, mileage and other factors. You can find a fine early car and will be very happy with it. Do not worry to much about higher mileage cars; worry more about how well the car has been cared for over its lifetime. The '90s had a couple of issues that are repairable and should not be a deterrent to a purchase at the right price. Fuel injectors come to mind; also '90s did not have valve stem seals. Probably '95% of all ZR-1 issues are simply regular C 4 issues; the others relate to the engine.

While there are many great early cars out there, I personally, I decided that I wanted only a 1993 to 1995 car for a couple of reasons. First, they had a bit more horsepower (405 vs. 375) than the earlier cars but many will argue that the performance was about the same and in any case if you port the engines as many have done that difference is moot anyway. Second, I figured that the later cars, like most autos, will have had any early engineering or production issues pretty well worked out towards the end of the model run. Third, I liked the idea of the rarity. In 1993,4 and 5 only 448 were made each year, about 2% of total Corvette production for those years. That has not translated into any material price difference, maybe a few thousand dollars, but it was a factor for me. (Note that when I bought my '93 in October of 1994 I did not know that they would end in 1995, but I did when I bought my 1995 in 2012.)

I echo the sentiments of others in that you should decide on what you want in a ZR-1 then stick to that goal. It took me about 6 months to find and buy my Quasar Blue 1993, and almost a year to find the Polo Green/Beige 1995 that I purchased in 2012. I was pleased with the results of those somewhat extended searches. The 1993 was only 6 months old when I bought it, essentially just a used car, but I felt I got an appropriate deal on it. On the 1995, I arguably paid a bit too much for the car but it was exactly what I wanted. It will be your call on that.

While you are looking for a stock car, don't be put off by some modifications if they have been done by known and competent people. I fairly quickly modified both the '93 and the '95 for a few things that wanted and what you will find are fairly common modifications on many cars. They included a Corsa exhaust, a (Hurst) short shifter, a 4.10:1 rear gear set (stock is 3.45), and a few others. I eventually added headers to the '93 and only on the '95 did I have serious engine work done to bring the car up to about 510 HP. This is actually a disease, and it is quite contagious, so watch out. All of my work was done by Marc Haibeck, who you will come to know as one of the true experts on ZR-1s in the world today.

When I first decided I wanted a ZR-1 in 1993, one of the first things I did was travel to the Bloomington Gold get together to meet with ZR-1 owners and to see the cars. Similarly, others have suggested to you attend the annual Gathering in Bowling Green KY. I heartily second that suggestion if you can swing it. May 13-16. Fly in, rent a car and join the fun. You will find this group to be very friendly, knowledgeable and helpful to someone like you seeking to join the madness. You will learn more about ZR-1s in those three or four days than you would otherwise in a couple of years on your own. If you can't make it this year, plan on being there next year for sure.

Good luck with your search-- I hope you come up with a ZR-1 that fits your needs soon.--Bob

[RichieDMD]

Hi Richie--

I no longer have a ZR-1 but owned two and miss them to this day. Yes they were all 6 speed manuals, the early cars with a somewhat awkward lift ring reverse lockout, the 94 and 95s with just a push detent. A few cars have been converted to automatics. All were Targa top coupes; some came with just one top and some with two, a painted one and a transparent one. My '93 ZR-1 had one top, painted. The '95 came with two tops and I never once put the second one on. While some sellers hype a two top car, I personally would not worry about one with only one top. When I ordered my new 2016 Z06 coupe I specified only one top.

You will have your own preferences, but I will relate my approach to my ZR-1 hunts. In 1993 I first decided I wanted a ZR-1 for all the same reasons you have mentioned. First I joined the ZR-1 Registry, essentially a predecessor to the ZR-1 Net Registry, to gather information. You are correct that most (about 80%) of the ZR-1s were made in 1990 and 1991 and as a result you may or may not get a better price on one than later cars. Depends on condition, mileage and other factors. You can find a fine early car and will be very happy with it. Do not worry to much about higher mileage cars; worry more about how well the car has been cared for over its lifetime. The '90s had a couple of issues that are repairable and should not be a deterrent to a purchase at the right price. Fuel injectors come to mind; also '90s did not have valve stem seals. Probably '95% of all ZR-1 issues are simply regular C 4 issues; the others relate to the engine.

While there are many great early cars out there, I personally, I decided that I wanted only a 1993 to 1995 car for a couple of reasons. First, they had a bit more horsepower (405 vs. 375) than the earlier cars but many will argue that the performance was about the same and in any case if you port the engines as many have done that difference is moot anyway. Second, I figured that the later cars, like most autos, will have had any early engineering or production issues pretty well worked out towards the end of the model run. Third, I liked the idea of the rarity. In 1993,4 and 5 only 448 were made each year, about 2% of total Corvette production for those years. That has not translated into any material price difference, maybe a few thousand dollars, but it was a factor for me. (Note that when I bought my '93 in October of 1994 I did not know that they would end in 1995, but I did when I bought my 1995 in 2012.)

I echo the sentiments of others in that you should decide on what you want in a ZR-1 then stick to that goal. It took me about 6 months to find and buy my Quasar Blue 1993, and almost a year to find the Polo Green/Beige 1995 that I purchased in 2012. I was pleased with the results of those somewhat extended searches. The 1993 was only 6 months old when I bought it, essentially just a used car, but I felt I got an appropriate deal on it. On the 1995, I arguably paid a bit too much for the car but it was exactly what I wanted. It will be your call on that.

While you are looking for a stock car, don't be put off by some modifications if they have been done by known and competent people. I fairly quickly modified both the '93 and the '95 for a few things that wanted and what you will find are fairly common modifications on many cars. They included a Corsa exhaust, a (Hurst) short shifter, a 4.10:1 rear gear set (stock is 3.45), and a few others. I eventually added headers to the '93 and only on the '95 did I have serious engine work done to bring the car up to about 510 HP. This is actually a disease, and it is quite contagious, so watch out. All of my work was done by Marc Haibeck, who you will come to know as one of the true experts on ZR-1s in the world today.

When I first decided I wanted a ZR-1 in 1993, one of the first things I did was travel to the Bloomington Gold get together to meet with ZR-1 owners and to see the cars. Similarly, others have suggested to you attend the annual Gathering in Bowling Green KY. I heartily second that suggestion if you can swing it. May 13-16. Fly in, rent a car and join the fun. You will find this group to be very friendly, knowledgeable and helpful to someone like you seeking to join the madness. You will learn more about ZR-1s in those three or four days than you would otherwise in a couple of years on your own. If you can't make it this year, plan on being there next year for sure.

Good luck with your search-- I hope you come up with a ZR-1 that fits your needs soon.--Bob
Bob,


Thanks for the great post with great info. I really appreciate it.


I really am trying to learn as much as I can about these cars and figure out exactly what I want. I do think I want a car that is either 1990 or 1993. I don't want a newer one than that. As odd as it sounds, the reason for this is I don't want a passenger air bag. My wife has been a little against this idea of selling the Camaro and buying one of these in part because our young kids (3 and 5) won't be able to enjoy it with me as much. I can put car seats in the back of the Camaro...that's not an option in the ZR-1 and the kids love the cars. Just this morning, I found this...and I think right now both are in the garage doing the same thing:
https://i.imgur.com/whAbaKD.jpg



Oregon law allows a car seat in the front as long as there is no issue with air bags. A 1993 or older car would make this more doable and let the kids (one at a time) still ride in the car every once in a while.


I really like 1990 as it was the first release...the first true American Super Car. However, 1993 has the advantage of a few years of experience for GM to get the car ironed out and, they built less (so they are rarer), and they have the upgraded multi-port injection with more power. So, both have benefits.



I really think Red is what I want...so in 1990 that is Bright Red and 1993 its Torch Red. Is there much difference in the colors? I know in 1990 1565 were made in Red and in 1993 only 59 were. So, the 1990 will be a lot easier to find. I wonder what the cost difference between an otherwise similar red 1990 and 1993 would be.


As far as originality...I'm OK with some mods. Just nothing crazy. Little improvements and upgrades are great. I don't want anything that has been heavily altered or hot rodded. I also have to worry about Oregon emissions standards so there's that too.

[Young1]

These cars are a blast and will get you 20 over tickets in 3.45 seconds, even stock like mine. Yesterday a friend of mine was impressed when I took it through 5.5k rpm. I did not tell him it yet had more. Later it sang at 7k rpm through 3 gears and he went holy crap! Be cautious of gorgeous cars with super low miles stored a long time. Usually a thousand dollars of parts excluding labor and tires are needed to get them going. That is if they do not have rodent damage to interior and wiring. Z’s well maintained and regularly driven with spirit in which everything works are your best bet for reliability. Do your research on this site and keep in touch.

[We Gone]

Good luck if you find one to far to look at just post up, many if not all the members of this site would be happy to inspect for you.

[RichieDMD]

Thanks for all the info so far. It's only my first day on this site and already I have learned a ton.


A couple questions.



I've been reading other posts here...just randomly trying to soak up information and I saw one from a guy who had purchased a 1990 ZR-1. He made a point to mention the previous owner had preferred the 1994 wheels so it had those on it. That made me wonder...how many different wheel styles did the ZR-1 come with during its 6-year run? I believe I read the ZR-1 had a wider tire than the standard Corvette...so I assume they had their own specific wheels. Where they the same design (aesthetically) as the standard Corvette of their respective year?


Also, it looks like A/C was standard on all cars except for the 1990s where it was an option. Are non-A/C 1990 cars rare? I know the A/C system does draw some HP but I would imagine that most who bought these cars new (with their 2x sticker price) would opt for A/C. Is it safe to assume that most cars with functional A/C systems would have been converted over to r134a by now?

[efnfast]

Lets see:
salad shooters
saw blades
A molds
?
They all had A/C. Some early ones had manual A/C, most came with climate control.

[BlackZR1]

how many different wheel styles did the ZR-1 come with during its 6-year run? I believe I read the ZR-1 had a wider tire than the standard Corvette...so I assume they had their own specific wheels. Where they the same design (aesthetically) as the standard Corvette of their respective year?

Welcome RichieDMD,
This website has an excellent chart of all the C4 wheels by year:
https://mirrockcorvette.com/c4-parts-guide/wheels/

[RichieDMD]

Welcome RichieDMD,
This website has an excellent chart of all the C4 wheels by year:
https://mirrockcorvette.com/c4-parts-guide/wheels/
That is perfect...Thanks.


I prefer a more stock look but I definitely like the rims on the 1994 and later cars better. Is it common to swap them...and if so, are they difficult to find (specifically the rear wheels as they are wider)?

[32valvZ]

Very common to swap to A Mold wheels. Theyre reasonably easy to find and surface in the F/S sections of this site, the forum and ebay too.

[EvanZR1]

I understand and you don’t want to rush. He just sent me a message that it seems some lucky member here is going to buy the car. That was quick and not surprising at his price point. You’re doing the right thing to take your time and learn. The right one will fall into your lap here.
If I hadn't been in the middle of building a house, I would have bought that car even though I don't like black. Good advice though, be patient and discriminating. Don't jump on the first one that comes along unless it's the right car.

I really am trying to learn as much as I can about these cars and figure out exactly what I want. I do think I want a car that is either 1990 or 1993. I don't want a newer one than that. As odd as it sounds, the reason for this is I don't want a passenger air bag. My wife has been a little against this idea of selling the Camaro and buying one of these in part because our young kids (3 and 5) won't be able to enjoy it with me as much...
I really think Red is what I want...so in 1990 that is Bright Red and 1993 its Torch Red. Is there much difference in the colors? I know in 1990 1565 were made in Red and in 1993 only 59 were. So, the 1990 will be a lot easier to find. I wonder what the cost difference between an otherwise similar red 1990 and 1993 would be.


As far as originality...I'm OK with some mods. Just nothing crazy. Little improvements and upgrades are great. I don't want anything that has been heavily altered or hot rodded. I also have to worry about Oregon emissions standards so there's that too.

This is perfectly sound reasoning, also there's really not much actual performance difference between any of the years. Early 375HP cars are a little lighter than the later 405HP cars, so performance ends up being about the same. Choosing red makes things a lot easier as that's by far the most numerous color. I specifically didn't want black, red or white this time around so had a much more limited selection of cars. As to mods & emissions, porting and/or gears will have little to no impact on emissions and are two of the more common mods. Long tube headers without cats are one of the other common mods, and will impact emissions. However, check your states requirements as any C4 ZR-1 is over 25 years old at this point, which should let it be registered as an antique, which often eliminates it having to pass emissions.


Lets see:
salad shooters
saw blades
A molds
They all had A/C. Some early ones had manual A/C, most came with climate control.

Correct, three different wheel options. Personally I never cared for the salad shooters or saw blades when the cars first came out, and always preferred (and still prefer) the 5-spoke A-molds. Now however, I do really like the look of the 90 with the original salad shooter wheels. Really gives the 90 a unique look even among other C4 ZR-1s. Of course, it's not too unusual to see custom wheels, there's a decent number of ZR-1s with them. My favorite is the Shelby wheels, which were pretty popular.
Obligatory pic:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oy35olpv97rau9r/IMG_20190327_160710.jpg?raw=1

[WARP TEN]

So well said Bob! So happy to see you’re here for life despite selling your C4 Zs. I loved my 90, but so happy to have a 95 now. There are some lifetime friendships made here for sure.

I’ve been meaning to ask your experience about the C7 community and if you’ve found similar love, passion, and friendships like this community? I only know the ZR-1 Net and Registry since Mom (Dave Bright) welcomed me with open arms in 2003 and I’ve been glued and obsessed since. I feel like the C4 ZR-1 has a special following and family, but I could be wrong. By the way, I’m still hoping you buy another ZR-1. [emoji1317]🤙🏼

Craig


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

Thanks Craig--
The C4 ZR-1 group is special in ways that the other forums I haunt are not (several Corvette and BMW forums). I think this is related to several factors. First, The group is relatively small, as befitting the relatively small production run of C4 ZR-1. Second, there is a passion related to the engineering of the LT5 engine that not everyone has for other cars. Third, we have been around ZR-1s for along time--many of us joined Larry Merow's ZR-1 Registry in the early '90s, and certainly the ZR1 Net Registry in the early 2000s, and many of us have been going to annual "Gatherings", first at Bloomington then the NCM, since the early '90s. Fourth I think it is special that the group includes so many specialists and experts in all or some things ZR-1. Graham Behan still participates, March Haibeck too, Brett Henderson, Hib Halverson, the FBI and Wazoo groups, and many others. Corey Henderson, Bill Boudreau, Dave McLellan and Dave Bright also, not so much on the forum, but in the community and often at Gatherings or other events. I am proud to be part of this group and glad you haven't kicked me out for getting one of them new-fangled supercharged Corvettes...;)

As to the other Corvette groups or forums, I do enjoy participating in the forums, but there isn't really a club like ours, other than on a more local level. BMW does have a large and active national group, although I don't participate in it like I do here. While I have good on line relationships with a number of Z06 folks, I have not yet gone to one of their national annual gatherings. I would hope to next year perhaps; they hold it in April. It would be nice to meet with some of them face to face. I did get to do that once with a few at a smaller get together we did at the Air Force museum in Dayton Ohio a couple years ago.

As for buying another ZR-1, well I am afraid I would have to buy a new wife first. I regularly threaten to take her down to CarMax for an appraisal and possible trade in but she isn't too keen on that idea. As she points out, at this stage she is probably fully depreciated--as am I, of course.... --Bob

[MarkSS]

I will give a little perspective and hopefully help as someone who has owned a couple 4th gen Camaros as well as a couple ZR-1s. You didn't mention if you have driven one yet or not, which I would recommend for anything before purchasing, but I will attempt a comparison here. I will base it off of my 99 SS Camaro, because the LS1 cars are significantly quicker than the LT1s (my other Camaro was a 96 Z/28).

To be honest, a stock ZR-1 is not a lot faster than a stock SS Camaro. However, the power delivery is quite different. The LT5 loves revs and really comes alive above 3500 rpm all the way to redline around 7000. The sound is also unique and, though the LT5 sound isn't special at idle, it is at speed... I never get tired of it.

The ZR-1 is a more refined touring car than the Camaro and has a very good, almost too soft ride in touring mode. If I am going to be on a road with corners, I usually turn the dial up to Sport or Performance, but on the interstate or on city streets I usually leave it in touring. Launches are fun and more effective in touring because you get more weight transfer to the rear.

I actually have a slight preference on shift feel for the T56 in the Camaros compared to the ZF in the Corvettes, but the ZF 6 speed is quite durable so there are rarely issues there unless it has been powershifted a lot, which can cause the synchros to fail.

I haven't experienced any ZR-1 specific problems with either of them I have owned, as the LT5 is very reliable. The one I am hoping not to have to deal with is starter failure, as it is hard to access and requires removal of the plenum. This may be the most common issue specific to the ZR-1. I have had to replace headlight motors, and Bose amps as they are prone to failure on any C4. My first 1990 had the dreaded airbag light that I had fixed and then it came on again the week I sold it... my current car has not had this issue, which is usually related to corrosion on the ground for it.

I love Camaros and currently have a 14 Z/28, but the ZR-1s are a unique part of Corvette history, still fun to drive, and deserving of the King of the Hill title for their day.

Have fun in the search and I think you will have a blast with a ZR-1.

[RichieDMD]

I will give a little perspective and hopefully help as someone who has owned a couple 4th gen Camaros as well as a couple ZR-1s. You didn't mention if you have driven one yet or not, which I would recommend for anything before purchasing, but I will attempt a comparison here. I will base it off of my 99 SS Camaro, because the LS1 cars are significantly quicker than the LT1s (my other Camaro was a 96 Z/28).

To be honest, a stock ZR-1 is not a lot faster than a stock SS Camaro. However, the power delivery is quite different. The LT5 loves revs and really comes alive above 3500 rpm all the way to redline around 7000. The sound is also unique and, though the LT5 sound isn't special at idle, it is at speed... I never get tired of it.

The ZR-1 is a more refined touring car than the Camaro and has a very good, almost too soft ride in touring mode. If I am going to be on a road with corners, I usually turn the dial up to Sport or Performance, but on the interstate or on city streets I usually leave it in touring. Launches are fun and more effective in touring because you get more weight transfer to the rear.

I actually have a slight preference on shift feel for the T56 in the Camaros compared to the ZF in the Corvettes, but the ZF 6 speed is quite durable so there are rarely issues there unless it has been powershifted a lot, which can cause the synchros to fail.

I haven't experienced any ZR-1 specific problems with either of them I have owned, as the LT5 is very reliable. The one I am hoping not to have to deal with is starter failure, as it is hard to access and requires removal of the plenum. This may be the most common issue specific to the ZR-1. I have had to replace headlight motors, and Bose amps as they are prone to failure on any C4. My first 1990 had the dreaded airbag light that I had fixed and then it came on again the week I sold it... my current car has not had this issue, which is usually related to corrosion on the ground for it.

I love Camaros and currently have a 14 Z/28, but the ZR-1s are a unique part of Corvette history, still fun to drive, and deserving of the King of the Hill title for their day.

Have fun in the search and I think you will have a blast with a ZR-1.
Wow, great information here. Thank you for the comparison. I was not expected a stock ZR-1 to be faster than my Camaro SS...I know it might be a little but I wasn't expecting it to be a massive change. The problem I have is I have driven a 02 SS M6 for over a decade every day and then I went out and bought a 93 LT1 Z-28 A4...with higher gears. As much as I love how it looks...its so similar to the 02 but more boring to drive when I'm accustom to the LS-1. I don't necessarily need something way faster...but I need something different. I think the ZR-1 performance will be plenty to satisfy me and provide a different driving experience. To be honest, if the 93 Camaro wasn't so similar to the 02 it would be fine.


To answer your question about driving a ZR-1, I have not. I have never driven any kind of C4. I do think that driving one (or at least riding in one) is needed before I decide to buy one. I didn't drive a LT1 Camaro before I bought one and that was a mistake...probably should have found a random one at a local dealer and test drove it.


I have been reviewing the resources here and I have a question. Is there a known list of exterior colors with the interior colors they came with? I know some models restrict the color of the interior based on the exterior. Lets say for instance, I want a Bright Red 1990. What interior colors will I find? I know Red is a common interior for red cars...but do other interiors exist and if so, how rare are they?

[EvanZR1]

I have been reviewing the resources here and I have a question. Is there a known list of exterior colors with the interior colors they came with? I know some models restrict the color of the interior based on the exterior. Lets say for instance, I want a Bright Red 1990. What interior colors will I find? I know Red is a common interior for red cars...but do other interiors exist and if so, how rare are they?

Posted this link in the CF thread, but didn't call it out specifically:
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/General/ProdNumbersColors.aspx
Has all the exterior color numbers by year. I know there were certain interior color restrictions based on exterior color, but I think you could get pretty much anything (other than maybe blue) with red exterior.

[RichieDMD]

Posted this link in the CF thread, but didn't call it out specifically:
http://www.zr1netregistry.com/Information/General/ProdNumbersColors.aspx
Has all the exterior color numbers by year. I know there were certain interior color restrictions based on exterior color, but I think you could get pretty much anything (other than maybe blue) with red exterior.
Yes, that was the table I was referencing (I saw it when you posted it before...thanks!)...I just didn't know if there was a known production of interior colors vs. exterior colors. I also only see paint colors on that chart...is there a list of interior colors too or am I just not reading it right?

Is Red the most common interior for red cars with this generation of Corvette?

[Norwegianmopar]

Having had mostly musclecars thru the years, and considered myself a Mopar guy, we ended up buying our very first Corvette the spring of 2018. It was a whithe on red 91 ZR-1.

I had spent a few months on this forum, googling all I could find, looking at youtube videos etc etc. The ZR-1 sounded very exciting and completely different from everything I had driven previously. And boy was it something else.

The car had 4.10 gears and a Haibeck chip, otherwise mostly original.

We, my wife and I, drove the car thru Denmark and Sweden for 3 weeks that summer, a bit over 2000 miles in total. It was a blast I can tell you. It is a fantastic car for longer trips, very comfy and fun to drive, and boy it hauls *** with those 4.10 gears.

The car was a lot of fun, but our dream was to get an Admiral Blue 94 or 95. We wanted dual airbags since we usually both ride in it, and safety is very important to us. We (well mostly me) also wanted a few mods (4.10 gears being one since it's way quicker thru the gears than stock 3.45), and we got a deal on the car we now will ship over to Norway. The 91 was sold to help fund the 94.

It's 94 #112 in Admiral Blue/black and it has 4.10 gears, lightweight flywheel, Watson headers and Corsa exhaust. It also got new tires and 4 wheel alignment before we shipped it to Marc Haibeck (ZR-1 Specialist) for a full service and tune-up.

Haibeck fixed everything that wasn't working as it should, replaced some nuts and bolts, and changed all and every fluid and filter on the car as well as adding a performance calibration chip.

He said we now can expect it to produce 470 HP (399 RWHP) and it's all sound and ready for new adventures.

We will drive it as much as we can and hopefully keep it for a long time (got a lot of $$$ into it already). We also plan a few cosmetic upgrades like painting the engine, getting some aftermarket wheels, maybe 18/19's etc.

My point here is that the ZR-1 is a very special car, and we got totally hooked after a short time. The sound and feeel behind the wheel is like nothing else, the power band and effect curve is addictive. Once you drive one there is no going back.

Good luck in your hunt, you have something to look forward to!

[MarkSS]

Below are the exterior and interior color combination possibilities for 1990. There were five interior colors available, but I haven't seen many with blue interior. The production numbers are for all Corvettes, I haven't ever seen a breakout of ZR-1 interior colors, but it might exist. As was mentioned, for a Bright Red car, you could get anything but blue. Black is definitely the most common interior color that is out there.

1991 basically followed the same as 1990. In 1992 blue was dropped and white was added. In 1993, you could still get white, and Ruby Red was added on the anniversary cars. In 1994 and 1995 the Ruby was no longer available and white was dropped as well. They changed the names of Saddle and Gray over the years, but it is more or less the same. Also, I know for some years you could override the recommended color combinations... for example I have seen a factory built Yellow car with a Red interior.

10 White 4,872 (20.60%) Blue / Black / Gray / Red / Saddle
25 Steel Blue Metallic 813 (3.44%) Blue / Black
41 Black 4,759 (20.13%) Blue / Black / Gray / Red
42 Turquoise Metallic 589 (2.49%) Black / Saddle
53 Competition Yellow 278 (1.18%) Black / Gray / Saddle
68 Dark Red Metallic 2,353 (9.95%) Black / Saddle
80 Quasar Blue Metallic 474 (2.00%) Black / Saddle
81 Bright Red 6,956 (29.42%) Black / Gray / Red / Saddle
91 Polo Green Metallic 1,674 (7.08%) Black / Saddle
96 Charcoal Metallic 878 (3.71%) Black / Gray

[MarkSS]

By the way, if I could pick my year and color combo, I would have a 1993 Quasar Blue with white interior... but finding one is a little tough.

[Young1]

I had driven C4 before and was not impressed. But with LT5 different animal.

[RichieDMD]

RichieDMD,

I would not let the passenger airbag discourage you about staying away from 94-95 cars. Having owned a 90, 91, and 95 I love the refinement and improvement in the later models. I had no idea of all the little improvements until years after owning my 95 and taking it apart to do mods. You should be able to remove the fuse to disable the passenger air bag if you desire. You also get the wheels you like. LOL. 🤙🏼

Just find the right car for you and do as you are doing to ask all the questions and use the info on the Registry. If you can make it to the Gathering there are a bunch of folks that will let you ride in and drive their cars. Best wishes.


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)
I hadn't considered just pulling the fuse out to deactivate the air bag. That's not a bad idea.



I think what I should do is just figure out exactly what my ideal car is...and look for that regardless of year and see what I find.


Can you give me a few examples of the "little improvements" that happened over the years?


Also, I know with Camaro's...the 1993 had yellow colored gauges and controls on the interior and 1994 and newer had white. Is that the same with the Corvette (for example, the speedometer #s are yellow on my 1993 but were white from 94-02).

[RichieDMD]

Below are the exterior and interior color combination possibilities for 1990. There were five interior colors available, but I haven't seen many with blue interior. The production numbers are for all Corvettes, I haven't ever seen a breakout of ZR-1 interior colors, but it might exist. As was mentioned, for a Bright Red car, you could get anything but blue. Black is definitely the most common interior color that is out there.

1991 basically followed the same as 1990. In 1992 blue was dropped and white was added. In 1993, you could still get white, and Ruby Red was added on the anniversary cars. In 1994 and 1995 the Ruby was no longer available and white was dropped as well. They changed the names of Saddle and Gray over the years, but it is more or less the same. Also, I know for some years you could override the recommended color combinations... for example I have seen a factory built Yellow car with a Red interior.

10 White 4,872 (20.60%) Blue / Black / Gray / Red / Saddle
25 Steel Blue Metallic 813 (3.44%) Blue / Black
41 Black 4,759 (20.13%) Blue / Black / Gray / Red
42 Turquoise Metallic 589 (2.49%) Black / Saddle
53 Competition Yellow 278 (1.18%) Black / Gray / Saddle
68 Dark Red Metallic 2,353 (9.95%) Black / Saddle
80 Quasar Blue Metallic 474 (2.00%) Black / Saddle
81 Bright Red 6,956 (29.42%) Black / Gray / Red / Saddle
91 Polo Green Metallic 1,674 (7.08%) Black / Saddle
96 Charcoal Metallic 878 (3.71%) Black / Gray
Oh perfect. Thanks! I think if I went with a red car I'd want a black interior...which looks common. I've seen a number of red/red cars and that feels like too much to me. I'm also thinking about maybe a yellow car. My 2002 Camaro (which I am keeping) is red with black interior...and I should probably get something different. I also love the blue, but I'm buying a new daily driver soon and its gonna be blue.

I assume "Saddle" is a tan color?

I know they also made a 40th Anniversary edition in that purple/red color in 1993. Does the 40th anniversary edition have anything special about it?

[EvanZR1]

I know they also made a 40th Anniversary edition in that purple/red color in 1993. Does the 40th anniversary edition have anything special about it?
It's just an appearance package, but it is a good looking car.

[RichieDMD]

Yes, do exactly what you’re doing to be well informed before your decision. Of course your budget might dictate it for you. When I got my red/saddle 90 in 2003 all I could afford to spend was around $15K and found it for $14K plus shipping to Hawaii.

In 2015 I lived in Cali and I went to look at a black/black 95 for a friend in Hawaii. He changed his mind and decided he wanted a polo green/tan 93. I always loved black and I thought it would be nice to have the first and last year, but didn’t think to seriously consider buying it. It was a week or so later that the owner called me and asked if I wanted to buy it since he could tell I was in love with it. I told him I couldn’t afford to. He was asking $32K at the time and I thought it was priced well for a nice low mileage car (27K miles), especially with all the extra wheels/tires, parts, accessories (boxes of it). I told my wife and since she came for the ride to see it she told me why don’t I buy it? How can I not when the wife is encouraging me? I set the lowball budget to $25K and the seller called me back a few days later to accept my offer. He said others that came and looked were not enthusiast and looking to flip it. He wanted me to have it knowing it would be cared for by an enthusiast. Just the right place at the right time in an area with no demand for the car. It fell into my lap by accident.

My reason for telling you all this is I didn’t buy the first Z I really wanted and settled. I don’t even like red (glad you do) but I wanted a ZR-1. I also realized I prefer the look of the later models without the belt line molding of the 90.

As for the list of all the changes, I have to find that for you since I did not know so many small things. Mostly to make the car quieter (a bunch of anti-squeak and rattle stuff and more comfortable. There are sensitive people here that like to counter or challenge ones opinion so I’ll not say any particular year is better or worse. I just know what I like. I never question others opinions because that’s just not my nature. Of course most people focus on the look, color, options available, production numbers, horsepower, wheels, etc. between the different years. The stuff I’m talking about might not be important to you, but I think you should be educated and informed. I didn’t know until I drove a later model Z. I’m in Hawaii now and my car and my stuff is in Japan. Since you’re not buying right away, I’ll try to find that list of everything changed year by year and get it to you when I go in April to visit (pending corona virus issue).

Yes, different color gauges between early and later and you’ll find all those details and more on the Registry info. I’m still sick in bed at home so trying to make this reply short.

Best wishes with your quest!! 🤙🏼








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Thank you for all the info. I'm just gonna keep researching and figure out exactly what I want. I'm not in a rush. If you get time and can help me sort out a list of the changes made during the run it would be very useful. Hope you feel better soon!

[XfireZ51]

Hey Craig, ur not dealing w CV-19 are u?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Significant / or Insignificant changes:
91- front bumper and side molding, wheels, size of cutout in windshield
92- traction control, emblems added to side of hood, exhaust tips
93- wheels, 40th Edition, 405 horsepower, but car got heavier, PKE Remote
94- SEATS!!! Lear!!! White lettering on controls, wheels
95- many with 2 Dunn heads, shifter, reverse lockout change

Likely missed some!
I would not get "hung-up" over the changes.
All years are great!
Changes are actually minor, evolutionary, not revolutionary.

:cheers:
Marty

[XfireZ51]

Marty,

So 95 was the first year for the “crash thru” reverse? Wasn’t sure.
94-95 were also years w OBDII 16pin ALDL CONNECTOR but still using OBD1 diagnostics.

[WARP TEN]

Marty,

So 95 was the first year for the “crash thru” reverse? Wasn’t sure.
94-95 were also years w OBDII 16pin ALDL CONNECTOR but still using OBD1 diagnostics.

'95 had the crash through reverse, '93 had a lift ring. I don't know about '94s but perhaps a '94 owner can contribute.--Bob

[secondchance]

'95 had the crash through reverse, '93 had a lift ring. I don't know about '94s but perhaps a '94 owner can contribute.--Bob

94 has lift ring.

[EvanZR1]

1990:
One year only body style, one year only wheels (salad shooter). Super narrow sport seats with electric recline (36" waist max, a few 91s (like mine) also got these if they were rare/unusual color interior)
1991+:
New front bumper and belt-line trim. Sport seats are same look as 90, but a little bit wider and move to manual recline adjustment. Change to saw blade style wheels.
1992+:
Traction control added. Emblems on both sides of hood (although many earlier year owners add this). Exhaust tip change (of course exhaust is one of the most common things owners change).
1993 specific: 40th Anniversary Edition (appearance only option).
1993+: Increase to 405 horsepower, but car got heavier. PKE Remote. Passenger airbag. Oil & coolant temp added as options in digital dash functions (believe it was 93, may have been 92)
1994+: Another seat change, now the widest seats in a C4. White dash lettering. 5-spoke, A-mold wheels. OBDII port, but OBDI ECM.
1995: Possible to get a "double Dunn" engine (Dunn heads on both sides, more of a unique conversation piece, maybe worth a few (4-5?) HP), shifter lift ring eliminated and change to "crash through"

As Marty said, changes are actually minor, evolutionary, not revolutionary. Also, many of the "improvements" to the C4 were done as running changes and not tied to a specific year. So things like felt pads in certain places to help eliminate rattles were done once they identified an issue and had a solution, not waiting on the next model year to implement. In general, I typically say buy the latest model you can get with all else being equal. But on ZR-1s, that tends to go out the window as it's more about: what's available, color, condition of car, mods, specific things you value, etc.

[Jagdpanzer]

On the 95 don’t forget to mention switching from single stitch to heavier “French” double stitching on the big boy sport seats.


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[Vette73]

Hey Craig, ur not dealing w CV-19 are u?

I think the media just needs to keep there mouth shut over this situation....Aids,Sars, the flu ? Did everything just go into shut off mode ? Over 2 trillion dollars lost in 4 days?

Are people falling over dead in the streets ? No....Its a shame...A lot of damage is done already....Its a situation that will come under control eventually just like everything else...

[Norwegianmopar]

1990:
One year only body style, one year only wheels (salad shooter). Super narrow sport seats with electric recline (36" waist max, a few 91s (like mine) also got these if they were rare/unusual color interior)
1991+:
New front bumper and belt-line trim. Sport seats are same look as 90, but a little bit wider and move to manual recline adjustment. Change to saw blade style wheels.
1992+:
Traction control added. Emblems on both sides of hood (although many earlier year owners add this). Exhaust tip change (of course exhaust is one of the most common things owners change).
1993 specific: 40th Anniversary Edition (appearance only option).
1993+: Increase to 405 horsepower, but car got heavier. PKE Remote. Passenger airbag. Oil & coolant temp added as options in digital dash functions (believe it was 93, may have been 92)
1994+: Another seat change, now the widest seats in a C4. White dash lettering. 5-spoke, A-mold wheels. OBDII port, but OBDI ECM.
1995: Possible to get a "double Dunn" engine (Dunn heads on both sides, more of a unique conversation piece, maybe worth a few (4-5?) HP), shifter lift ring eliminated and change to "crash through"

As Marty said, changes are actually minor, evolutionary, not revolutionary. Also, many of the "improvements" to the C4 were done as running changes and not tied to a specific year. So things like felt pads in certain places to help eliminate rattles were done once they identified an issue and had a solution, not waiting on the next model year to implement. In general, I typically say buy the latest model you can get with all else being equal. But on ZR-1s, that tends to go out the window as it's more about: what's available, color, condition of car, mods, specific things you value, etc.

Evan, I think the passenger side airbag came in 94.

[RichieDMD]

I really appreciate all the insight and information you guys have provided me. This is quite an impressive community. You have been a huge help...and I am a new person here who hasn't contributed to the group at all. So, thank you for being so welcoming and helpful.

I have read every post and PM and have done a bunch of reading online as I continue to learn about these cars.

The more I learn, the more refined by goal has become. I think the consensus here is the newer the car the better the car simply because they continued to improve the model as time went by (as they do with all cars). So, I should buy the newest version I can. In addition, I don't care for the black trim on the 1990 cars and I really like the A-mold rims. So, it seems like a 1994 or 1995 would make the most sense. Of course, cost is gonna be a factor. So, we will see.

As far as my concerns about airbags, Oregon laws are pretty vague about forward facing car seats and airbags. Here is what it says:

Oregon law requires children under eight years old and weighing 40 pounds or less to be secured in a child safety seat.
All children under two years old must be secured in a rear-facing child seat. Oregon does not specifically require that children be placed in the back seat of vehicles. However, “proper use” of a child safety seat prohibits installing a rear-facing car seat in front of an airbag.So, I might not even need to worry about the airbag...and if I do it sounds easy enough to just deactivate it by removing a fuse. Plus, I have probably had car seats in my Pace Car Camaro 3 times in the last year...so it's not a big concern I don't think.

Based on all that, it seems that a 1994 or 1995 would make the most sense...with the preference being 1995. But, then it comes down to finding the right car.

It seems like there isn't a lot of variation for options on these as they all seem to be pretty fully loaded for their day. It feels like color and mods is what it comes down to.

For color, originally I was thinking red...but I feel like that's not the best choice for me. First off, red is my favorite color and to me nothing is better than a red car. But, my 2002 Camaro SS LE car is red (the LE cars only came red) and I plan on keeping that car. So, I think that I should get something other than red. Blue is also out, I'm in the process of buying a new daily driver right now and I'm looking for a blue BMW 3-series. The idea is, the BMW will be my daily driver, I will use the Camaro as a hot rod (it's gonna get a new exhaust, gears, and a cam over the next few years), and sell the Pace Car and buy a Corvette as a third vehicle in my little collection. This is basically all my wife will tolerate, haha.

So, red and blue are out. Looking at the other available colors, only two really appeal to me: black and yellow. For whatever reason, yellow is really standing out to me. I've never had a yellow car before and I have always associated yellow with Corvettes. I don't really know why...but yellow Corvettes just do it for me. It looks like the interior colors were black, grey or saddle and any of those would probably be fine with me.

But, they only made 43 yellow cars in 1994 and 49 in 1995. So, I've went from a red 1990 with 1565 made to a yellow 94/95 with 92 made. So, we will see if I can find one and then afford it.

I want to find a driver...something with some miles on it. Not 100K miles, but not a 2000 mile garage queen either. Also, I'm OK with a few minor mods (exhaust, gears, ect.) as long as it will still pass emissions...and Oregon tests all cars 1975 and newer (and they bring out the mirrors and looks for catalytic converters). The thing though is they do a tailpipe test on all cars 1995 and older and cars 1981-95 are held to the same standard. As long as it has cats and can pass the same test as a 1981 car it will be fine.

So, here is the question. How hard will be to locate a car like this and what do you think it will cost (lets see if my goals greatly outclass my wallet)?

I think the media just needs to keep there mouth shut over this situation....Aids,Sars, the flu ? Did everything just go into shut off mode ? Over 2 trillion dollars lost in 4 days?

Are people falling over dead in the streets ? No....Its a shame...A lot of damage is done already....Its a situation that will come under control eventually just like everything else...
There certainly is a certain degree of sensationalism in the media about this whole thing. I am a dentist and I've had a couple patients this week ask me if they could buy masks from me. It's nuts.

[Z51JEFF]

Car won’t start with the airbag fuse removed. Once you narrow it down to the year you want you’ll notice all the little differences each year offers. Back in 1990 I HATED the grey/yellow dash but after I got my 91 it grew on me. I really like the seats in the 95s but the dash design doesn’t work for me, the 91 has a stepped area above the gauges I like,94-94 doesn’t. And I’m not a fan of the black/yellow dash of the 92-93. So over all,I would say 91 is the best year for the details.

[RichieDMD]

Car won’t start with the airbag fuse removed. Once you narrow it down to the year you want you’ll notice all the little differences each year offers. Back in 1990 I HATED the grey/yellow dash but after I got my 91 it grew on me. I really like the seats in the 95s but the dash design doesn’t work for me, the 91 has a stepped area above the gauges I like,94-94 doesn’t. And I’m not a fan of the black/yellow dash of the 92-93. So over all,I would say 91 is the best year for the details.
I've been looking a lot at the Oregon laws about car seats and they are pretty vague...but it only actually says anything about air bags with rear facing car seats and we are beyond that point. The NHTSA recommends all kids under 12 to ride in the back but if that is not possible, then they should ride in a car seat in the front with the seat as far back as possible. In the year I have owned by 1993 Camaro, I have put car seats in it probably 3 times for short drives to car shows and such. But, it looks like all years are OK for the boys.
https://www.oregon.gov/odot/safety/pages/belts-seats.aspx
https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/documents/13237-parents_guide_playing_it_safe_tagged_0.pdf


As for the interiors, based on photos I think I like the 94-95 better. I prefer the white gauges over the yellow (my 93 Camaro has yellow and there it has grown on me but I like the more modern look of the white gauges in my 02 better). I also like how the steering wheel has the Corvette logo in it beginning in 1994.


But, I honestly think I would be happy with any year...but I will focus on finding a newer one. I just don't know how much more expensive they will be as the production was a lot lower.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Car won’t start with the airbag fuse removed. .


Hey Jeff, Long time no see since Cars and Coffee in NorCal! I don’t know and read somewhere it has been done. I took out my driver side airbag and no issues starting the car, but my fuse is still in; not a separate fuse for pass airbag? I guess passenger airbag different, but there is a way. I did put the resistor in place so no dash light.

Here is some info:


https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4-tech-performance/2112502-disable-passenger-side-airbag.html




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