93 Starter Not Engaging

[RubyredEd]

Went to start car after a few months of storage. Battery was low so I charged it overnight. Turns out it would not take a charge, 6 yrs old, so I bought a 700 cca battery and installed it. All dash lights come on, can hear fuel pumps but when turned to start I get nothing, no solenoid clicking, nothing. In searching the forum seems like this is a problem. Car has only 10,000 miles and always started, although it does sit in a dry warehouse most of its life. Can it be security? The passive lock unlock is not working although it always did. Shoul I try battery in the remote? Even manually hitting lock or unlock on the remote does nothing.

[Dynomite]

Depress Clutch all the way :cheers:

If the solenoid does not move (no clicking indicating the Starter Solenoid moved) then a sticky Solenoid or Solenoid Ground Connection. Or.....you do not have 12 volts in purple wire.

You can hot wire the starter (purple wire) when that happens to see if it is the starter or starter ground circuit. Or check that purple wire for 12 volts when you turn the key to start. If you have 12 volts in purple wire (key turned to start) it be the Solenoid is stuck or connection of purple wire to solenoid is bad. You really need someone in seat turning the key to start with Clutch depressed.

Post 52 - Starter, Starter Relay, Wiring Harness, Battery, and Plugs Tricks (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564085)

[RubyredEd]

Thank you, I will try. Where is purple wire?

[onetinsoldier]

The firewall on the drivers side inside the large wire loom, between the ecm and the engine. its either 10 or 12 ga wire

[RubyredEd]

Great. I'll take a look and give it a try. Thank you.

[RubyredEd]

Took a look and there are 2 looms. I was able to open the larger and did not see any purple wires that were even close to 10 or 12 gauge. I also did not see any voltage drop while depressing clutch or attempting to start. Any one have a picture of where this wire is?

[Dynomite]

The purple wire is red on the first three hundred or so ’90 cars. But as far as I know should be Purple after that. If a heavy red wire....maybe.....

Post 53 - Electrical Ground Connections and Installing Starter Relay (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564089)

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Remove your Drivers side Floor Mat and try it again.
:cheers:
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Ok, I'll try removing the mat. Actually did not see any color wires that were any bigger than maybe 16 gauge.
Maybe I should jump out the clutch switch. Can it be seen without removing the lower dash panel?

[Dynomite]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/600x600-1/80-a1281ce9_a069_4258_9a15_d7e7ff915b43_1__4d612a047a f9d4681d7342c9f5c0a58978bd9ab3.jpg

This is an early 90' so wire to Solenoid is red 12 gage.
The photo shows part of installation of Starter Solenoid Relay.

Post 53 - Electrical Ground Connections and Installing Starter Relay (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564089)

Maybe 93' has differences :p

[RubyredEd]

Looks like your illustration shows it in the larger wire loom. I'll take another look tomorrow. Thanks for all the help.

[RubyredEd]

Okay, found a large red wire in the smaller wire loom. I'm reading 12.5 volts there and no voltage drop when ignition is turned to start. I even tried putting a battery charger on the 200 amp boost setting but still no solenoid or starter engagement. Removed the floor mat to ensure the clutch pedal is as far as it can go, but again no change. One thing that seems strange is the security light never comes on and as I mentioned previously, the remote control does not lock or unlock the doors either by passive or active use. Prior to this it always worked. Not sure what to check next?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Lock your car door with the key.
Wait a minute.
Unlock you car door with the key.
Then insert the key in the ignition.
Wait 2 seconds.
Turn the key.

Observe the security light throughout that process and record what it does for each step.

It appears that you are not getting past either the security system or the clutch / neutral safety switch.

That would explain why you are not getting anything even with a new battery.

Also observe the voltage needle.
See if it deflects when the key is turned.
I am betting there is no movement as you are not getting past one or both of the above steps.

Your fob sounds as if it needs a battery.
It is possible that something is out of synch with the security system, if you are never seeing the security light either flashing or on.

Also try another ignition key if you have one, and or clean your key with windex, both the pellet and the key itself.

Let us know your results.

If all of this works properly, then we can move on from there.

Marty

[TX '90 ZR1]

This may seem simplistic, but have you put the key in the outside door locks and cycled them? Wiggle them around before removing the key to make sure the lock is centered in the unlocked position.
I was chasing a VATS issue a while back and discovered the passenger side door lock was not making good contact.
A long shot, but not hard to try.
I assume you have checked for any codes present? Cleared if so? Disconnected and reconnected the battery?
Good luck.
:cheers:
Marty, Looks like you posted as I was typing. Appears we are both going the same direction.
Happy Thanksgiving,

[RubyredEd]

Yes, I have a feeling that it does have something to do with security. I did check the voltage on the remote battery and it read a full 3 volts but I will change the battery anyway just to eliminate everything. I will try this on Friday since tomorrow is Thanksgiving. Thank you for your expert advice and have a great Thanksgiving!

[RubyredEd]

Good point, I will definitely cycle the door locks, great idea. Thank you.

[Marc Haibeck]

I have encountered starters with stuck solenoid pistons after storage. I have found that if the starter can be activated one time, it will operate normally thereafter.

One method is what I call the Wakeup Call to the starter. The procedure is on page five of this document.
http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/diagnosing%20starter%20problems.htm
The easy place to find the purple wire is on the clutch switch connector under the dash.

Another method is to vibrate the starter. The starter can be struck with a hammer. With a focused light look down next to the power brake booster. You will be able to see the corner of the coil pack. Under that is the starter. Use a 18" long 1/2" steel rod. Place it on the corner of the starter. Have a helper hold the ignition key to start. At the same time strike the steel rod.

[RubyredEd]

Ok, so I cleaned the key, locked and unlocked the door locks with the key, waited 10 seconds and turned the key to on. No security light and no interior chime when the key went in. Also I changed the battery in the remote. No voltage drop when you turn to start, floor mat out of the car and clutch all the way in. I disconnected the battery and waited 10 seconds and reconnected. Thought I heard the interior chime once, but still no interior lights when you open the door. All other dash lights seem normal as does fuel pumps and vacumn pump.
I'm pretty much convinced this has something to do with security, but not sure what's next. As I had mentioned previously the security light and passive lock/unlock always worked prior to this battery going bad.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

If there is an open in Circuit 1073 or 1074, the car will exhibit a "No Crank" condition.
These circuits run from the ignition lock to the CCM

1073- BLK wire coming out of ignition lock Cylinder to the B connector at the base of the steering column.
It then becomes white with blk marker and goes to E12 pass key input on the CCM

1074- BLK from ignition lock cylinder to base of steering column then becomes purple with white tracer going to F5 on the CCM which is the pass key return.


Locate those wires, and check each carefully for a cut or break or a loose connection.

Marty

ps

This would give you a trouble code, and just checked it would be DTC 53

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Do you have another ignition key?
If so, Clean it and try it before anything else.
Marty

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Check fuse marked "PKE" Passive Keyless Entry"
Marty

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Check aux fuse block, passenger side for 15 amp fuse labeled "THEFT"
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Don't have another key unfortunately. Prior to the battery going completely dead the solenoid did click and the security light was working. It seems weird that since then none of this works with the new battery. The car has been garaged and off the road for about 5 years but I would start it and run it to full warmup a couple of times a year and even if I had to recharge the battery it would always start.

[RubyredEd]

Just saw your posts about fuses. Absolutely will check that out! Where are they located?

[RubyredEd]

Ok, found a fuse panel in the side of dash inside passenger side door. Check fuse #26 labeled PKE and it was good, also check fuse #10 labeled crank p/n clutch which was also good.
I found 2 maxi fuse blocks in the engine compartment but did not pull any out.
I did not find any auxiliary fuse panel or any fuse marked theft. I checked owners manual and it doesn't mention any theft fuse.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

The THEFT fuse is in the auxiliary fuse panel.
Remove the passenger side knee bolster and you will find it.
I suspect that you will find it blown.
Wiring does not usually go bad from a battery change.
The Theft fuse is the prime suspect.
Let me know what you find.
:cheers:
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Thank you for all your help Marty. I'm not exactly sure what you are calling the knee bolster? Are you referring to the carpeted area next to the radio? I just read the entire owners manual and can't find any mention of it. Thanks, Ed
Do you have an illustration of it?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

My Ruby is up on the lift.
My service manuals are at the dealership.

Here is what I found on the web.

I am confident that your security system is the culprit, and that the fuse is the most likely point of failure.

Let me know what you find.
Marty

" are two auxilary fuse blocks that are located on the passenger side of the dash. There are at the lower front of the radio receiver. IIRC, you have to remove the hush panel above the passenger side footwell. The interior lamp is attached to this panel and there is three screws that will release the panel."

https://www.google.com/search?q=1993+corvette+auxiliary+fuse+panel+locati on&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS846US846&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=xlqu_AhVtsbXNM%253A%252CBjeezasKKsEYMM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRRSumIKeXAm_3ibCGsPZhXG2CMvQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjx3Jax_JbmAhWjxVkKHeCWCXAQ9QEwBHoECAkQE g#imgdii=VGHpUJW49E_dxM:&imgrc=9XhFPpHF-JfYFM:&vet=1

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Also check the 10 amp fuse in the primary panel upper left labeled ACC
This fuse has some connectivity to the anti theft, also the chime and hatch release.
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Just pulled down the hush panel under the glove compartment. No fuses but lots of wires. Also, no fuse marked acc in main fuse panel. I took pictures of everything but I don't know how to post them, but I will try.

[RubyredEd]

Try another

[RubyredEd]

Another

[RubyredEd]

Last one

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

According to the 93 factory service manual there is a fuse panel up there that contains the theft fuse.
While I have never had to search for it, the info came from the FSM.
Perhaps use a mirror and flashlight.
Marty

[Dynomite]

On a 91'

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/600x500-1/80-93e3c88a_2c36_4aac_8efe_a032c2213a3b_1__992d5e6a19 6addb28443e742cdd7a10640f949d4.jpg

[RubyredEd]

Thanks, will try again tomorrow!

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Any updates?
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Just got back from 3 days away and didn't have a chance to try again. Looks like I will have to try to get it done tomorrow. Thanks for checking in, I certainly can use your help!

[karlaw]

Took a look and there are 2 looms. I was able to open the larger and did not see any purple wires that were even close to 10 or 12 gauge. I also did not see any voltage drop while depressing clutch or attempting to start. Any one have a picture of where this wire is?







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[karlaw]

I have encountered starters with stuck solenoid pistons after storage. I have found that if the starter can be activated one time, it will operate normally thereafter.



One method is what I call the Wakeup Call to the starter. The procedure is on page five of this document.

http://www.zr1specialist.com/HAT%20Web/articles/diagnosing%20starter%20problems.htm

The easy place to find the purple wire is on the clutch switch connector under the dash.



Another method is to vibrate the starter. The starter can be struck with a hammer. With a focused light look down next to the power brake booster. You will be able to see the corner of the coil pack. Under that is the starter. Use a 18" long 1/2" steel rod. Place it on the corner of the starter. Have a helper hold the ignition key to start. At the same time strike the steel rod.







Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[karlaw]

Ok, I'll try removing the mat. Actually did not see any color wires that were any bigger than maybe 16 gauge.

Maybe I should jump out the clutch switch. Can it be seen without removing the lower dash panel?







Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[RubyredEd]

Took hush panel out and the bad news is there is no auxiliary fuse panel there! Inspected with a mirror and light and don't see any other panel. Could a 93 ZR1 be any different? Really starting to lose it on this mystery. To make this worse I turn the key and now nothing works! Turns out brand new battery totally dead. Did not see any evidence of battery drain when I installed it a few weeks ago. I disconnected negative and put it on 10 amp charge, I guess will reconnect Monday and see what happens.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

PASS-K~Y'"~(CC~NTJ
The.ignition key must be clean-and dry
before it's inserted-in the ignition or the
engine may not start. If the SECURITY
light comes on, the key may be dirty or
wet.
If this happens and the starter.won't
work; turn the ignition off. 'Clean and
dry tkkey, wait three ,minutes and try
again. If the starter still won't work,
wait three minutes and try the other
iation key. At this time, you may also
want to &e& the' fuse&. (see the Index
under Fuses C Circuit Brg~kers). I€ the .- staer won't work with the other key,
ymr vehicle needs service. If your
vehicle does start, the fkst ignition key
may be faulty. See your Chevrolet
d.ealer or a locksmith who. can service
the PA.SS-Kcy;" ... 56
~
-
However, if you accidentally use a key
that has a damaged or missing.resistor
pellet, you will see no SECURITY
light. You don't have to wait three.
minutes before.trying the proper key.
If the -resistor pellet is damaged m
missing, the-starter won't work. Use the
other ignition key, and see your
Chevrolet dealer or-a locksmith who
can service the PASS-Key" to have a
new key made.
If the SECURITY light comes on while
dri+ing, have your vihicle serviced 'as
suon as possible.
If you lose or damage a PASS-Key'"
ignition key, see .your Chevrolet dealer
or a locksmith who can service PASSKey



From the 93 owners manual
You state your light NEVER comes on.
You are going to have to get the resistance of your ignition key circuit confirmed to ensure you are using a key with the appropriate resistance.
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Why is it I don't see an auxiliary fuse panel?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

The only answer I can provide is they must have done away with it.
When using a 93 FSM. it has three parts, the FSM, a drivability supplement,
and an electrical diagnosis manual.
The electrical diagnosis manual is the same since 1990. It is even printed with 1990 on the cover.
I believe you when you say the panel is not there, as some of the other fuses it contained are now found on the 93 main panel, or one of the two panels under hood.
There is no mention of it being removed in the 93 FSM.

If it were me, not knowing what circuit the THEFT is powered from, I would remove and check every fuse in the main panel. Also check the two PKE fuses.

I then would follow the programming instructions for your PKE which are in your owners manual.
Once you have the PKE working properly, you should be able to arm and disarm the THEFT system, which will enable you to determine if indeed you are not getting past the VATS.
Once the THEFT works if you get no Security Light then that is telling you either the key is not being read, it is the wrong key, or there is a short in the circuit as discussed in one of my first posts.
A security light and it's operation or failure can help diagnose what is going on.
Your dead battery concerns me.
Something is going on.
Can you re=state fully when it last worked and what happened afterwards?
Marty

[RubyredEd]

The car started and ran in August even though I did have to charge the battery. I let it run to full temp. I was away until early November at which time about mid November I was trying to start the car when I could no longer charge the battery. I replaced it with a new 700 cca battery and got all dash lights and underhood lights but not security light. This is when this all started.

[A26B]

I remember a case just like this that ended up being a loose/bad connection at the battery. The connection was sufficient to illuminate lights but not strong enough to operate the starter. It could be cable/terminal not clean or tight, or even a broken terminal in the battery.

Since all your troubles started with battery replacement, I suggest you go through the same steps you took when replacing the battery only check connections & cables closer & consider having the new battery load tested.

About batteries & CCA ratings
The greater the CCA, the thinner the plates in the battery. The thinner the plates are, the more likely they are to failure from high discharge loads. Higher CCA does not necessarily equate to being the best battery for the intended use.
Good read on batteries.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/can_the_lead_acid_battery_compete_in_modern_times

Excerpt from the foregoing link:
"Plate Thickness
The service life of a lead-acid battery can, in part, be measured by the thickness of the positive plates. The thicker the plates, the longer the life will be. During charging and discharging, the lead on the plates gets gradually eaten away and the sediment falls to the bottom. The weight of a battery is a good indication of the lead content and the life expectancy."

So, for cars like ours that typically are not daily drivers that must see use in very cold weather. the most important feature would be reserve capacity (RC). Since High CCA batteries are heavier and we really don't need to start our cars in sub-freezing conditions, go for a lower CCA battery. It's lighter & will last longer.

[RubyredEd]

Will be checking all fuses and battery connections tomorrow! Thanks for the advice.

[RubyredEd]

Ok, today checked battery and all connections. All connections were tight and battery voltage was 12.9 volts. Checked all fuses in primary fuse panel and both maxi panels under hood. The right side courtesy light 5 amp mini fuse was blown so of course I thought I had found the cause, but no such luck. Still no crank, all dash lights come on but never see the security light. I can't remember if the security light used to light up then go off. I hear the fuel pumps and vacumn pump but starter does not spin. I checked the resistance on the key and it was reading 3.71 ohms on the 20 k scale. Also cleaned the key with electronic cleaner spray then dried it. Also when key is in the ignition and door is open there is no chime. There hasn't been any chiming since this problem started. Is this related? Also, no interior lights come on when door is opened, but underhood lights do work. Help!

[RubyredEd]

Also, forgot to mention, there were no instructions in my owners manual for reprogramming the PKE. The remote fob is not working either passive or by actually pushing buttons.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Features & Controls
4
Power Door Locks
With power door locks, ,you can lock or
unlock both doors-.of your vehicle from
the driver or-passenger door lock switch.
Slide the power door lock switch
reaward to lock the doors. Slide the
switch €ornard to unlock the doors.
Leaving Your Vehicle
If you are leaving,the vehicle, open your
door and set the lucks from inside. Then
get out and close the door.
Your vehicle has a thee detefrent
system. See- the index uader Unzversal
Theft Deterrent.
I4
Passive KeyEess Entry System
Your Passive Keyless Entry system
operates on a radio frequency subjecto
Federal Communications Commission
(FCC) Rules.
This device complies with Part 15 of the
FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the
following two conditions: (1) This
device may not cause- harmful
interfejrence, and (2) This device must
accept any interference received,
including interference that may cause
undesired operation.
Should interference to this system
occur, try this:
Check to:see if the passive feature is
enabled.
Check the distance. You may be too
far lrom your vehicle. This product
has a maximum range.
Check the location. Other vehicles or
objects-may be blocking the signal.
Check to determine if battery
replacement is. necessary. See the
instructioas .on battery replacement
later in this section.
See your Chevrolet dealer 6r.a
qualified technician for service.
Changes or modifications td this system
by other than an authorized service
facility could void authorization to use
this .equipment.
.F
i
i+
i,
.e
i
1
r I .,
Passive Keyless .Entry Description
The Passive Keyless-Entry system, or
PKE, on your Corvette is a new
approach2o remote keyless entry.
Unlike other systems, PKE requires no
specific .action from the operator ,to
unlock or lock the dams. When the
passive kature is er;abled, simply
approach the vehide with the .PKE
trinsmitter-the system automatically
disarms your vehicle's theft deterrent
system and unlocks either the driver's
door or both doors (depending on
which unlock mode it is in). Move back
aut -of range, and P-KE locks all the
doas and arms the theft deterrent
system.
The Passive Keyless Entry system also
has other useful features. The passenger
- door can be unlocked by pressing. the
DOOR button on the transmitter. On
the. coupe, the hatch can be openqd ley
pressing the HATCH button on the
transmitter. In addition to these
features, there is a special function that
prevents thekeys from being locked in
the vehicle while they are in the
ignition.
Your Corvette comes equipped from the
facbry with one transmitter. Additional
transmitters, if desired, .may be
purchased though your dealer. Each
transmitter is co-ded for. secu-rity, and
must be ,programmed to yow vehicle
before it is used. See Programming
Transmitters laterin this section,
Transmitter Range
The Passive Keyless Entry system
sen-ses the transmitter when it is within
a certain-range of the vehicle. When the
transmitter is' within this range, the
doar(s) will unIock auto-matieally (if the
passive feature is enabled), the theft
deterrent system will be disarmed, -and
the courtesy lights wilI be turned on (if
it is dark enough outside).
Transmitter ranges., as shorn in the
coupe and convertibie illustrations, are
as follows:
Range A: .5-7 feet (.11h-2 m)
Range B: 3-5 feet. (1-1% rn)
Features & Controls .. . .. ..
_I . . .- . ..
. ..
The signal of the transmitter is picked
up by two antennas. On the coupe, one
antenna is located in the driver's door
and one is located in the rear of the
luggage-area. These antennas do not
require any routine maintenance I
Transmitter Range (Convertible)
Qn the convertible, one antenna is
located in the driver's door and one- is
located in the passenger's -door. These
antennas do not require any routine
maintenance.
F
i""
V'
r"
Transmitter Range Suggestions:
The range of the Passive Keyless
EMry system is very dependent on
bow the transmitter is held. For
opthum range hd performance,
hold the transmitter vertically when
approaching the vehicle.
If the range gradually decreases over
time even though the transiitter is
held vertically, change the battery in
the transmitter.
The range will decrease if mure than
one3ransmitter is in range at the same
time. Avoid taking more than onetransmitter into vehicle range at the
same time.
Do not put the transmitter into a
metal container, which will prevent
the .signal from getting- to the vehicle.
hen you move the transmitter into
vehicle range, the theft deterrent system
automatically disengages and the
driver's door automatically unlocks.
When you move the transmitter out of
vehide range with the' do.ors closed and
the key out af the ignition, the system
will automatically:
Lock both .dooxs after -a five-second
Immediately arm the theft deterrent
Sound the horn once to signal that
Turn-off the interior lights.
delay.
system.
the doors are locked.
The theft deterrent system will still
operate using the .pma d0.w lock. See
the Index under .Universal The#?
DeZerrenzt.
You mEQT also Llnbclr the passenger
door by pressing the-DOOR-buttoil Qn
the transmitter, and the hatch by
pressing the HATCH button, but only
when the ignition is off.
Features & Controls
Passive Keyless Entry Settings
With Passive Keyless Entry, you am usethe system to operate both doors, or'
only the driver's door. You can also
choose to disable the system, ifthere are
times when. you would prefer .not to use
Passive Keyless Entry.
To Sdtch Dbor Settings:
To switch the: setting, from automatically
locking .and unlocking the .driver's door
to autom,atically iocling: and unlocking
both doors:
1. Insert the ignition key, but leave the
ipition off.
2. With the transmitter in range, hold.
the. DOOR, button for more than two
seconds. The system.wil1 then cycle
the doox. locks.
3. To switch back, repeat steps I; and 2.
Turning the Passive Keyless Entry
System Off
1, Take the keys out of the-ignition.
2. Hold the DOOR button on the
tramrnitter for longer than two
seconds.
3: The: system will sfgnal the shut-off by
cycling the locks from lock to unlock.
T.0 make sure the PKE system is off,
turn the ignition on and look for the
PASSIVE KEYLESS ENTRY hght
on the Driver Information Center. If
the PKE system Is on, the light will
come on for-two seconds. If the
systemis off, the light will not come
on.
When the system is off or me
transmitter is left at home, none of the
Passive Keyless. Entry features work.
But you will still be able to work the
manual and power locks, and arm the
theft deterrent system. See the Index
'under Door Lacks, .Power Door Locks
and Univerml Theft Deterrent.
.. . -
-
Iy
If you are working around your Corvette
and are- keeping your keys with you,
you rnight want to turn the Passive
Keyless Entry system off to prevent the
transmitter from activating the locks.
You also might want to turn the system
off if you have a passenger remaining in
the vehicle. If the passenger leaves the
vehicle with the dm arme.d, he or she
might set it off.
Enabling the Passive Keyless Entry
System:
To turn .the Passive Keyless Entry
system: on again, simply follow steps 1
through 3'under Turning the- Passive:
Keyless Entry System Off.
There-are two ways to make sure that
the passive feature is on. Either turn- the
ignition on and check to see' that the
PASSTvlE KE%LESS ENTRY light on
the Driver Infomation Center comes
on-for two seconds, or shut the doors.
and walk away from the vehicle with
the keys and transmitter. If the PKE
system is on,.the doors.will lock.
Passive Keyless Entry Safety Features
This system makes it d.Scult for you to
lock-your keys in the vehicle. If the keys
are left In the ignition and you lock-the
doors, the system dl1 automatically
unlock the doors as soon as they close.
Also, this system will not lock the doot
&er the transmitter has moved out of
range until the key is removed from the
ignition and the.-driver's door has been
opened. When using this system, you.
should become aware of the:ham ale-rt
once the doors lock automatically. If
you have left your keys. in the ignition,
the horn will .not souhd. Be sure to, lock
the doors ,once- you have removed the
key from the ignition.
Features & Controls
Passive Keyless Enfry Safety
Features (CONT.)
If you have your keys and the h.om does
not sound, check to see’if the passive.
feature is.enabled. If the system is
enabled and the horn still won’t sound,
see your dealer for -assistance.
The transmitter shuts down after 21
seconds without movement to
maximize battery life. If. you’ve lpclted
your keys in the vehicle, but didn’t leave
them in the ignition, wait 25 seconds,
then rock the vehicle. A motion
detector inside the. transmitter will send
a si-gnal to “wake up’’ the vehicle, which
will then unlock the doors.
It is still possible to lock your lreys in
the vehicle if the transmitter’s battery is
low, or if it is in a location where a
signal can’t be received, .For your
convenience, a€ways take your keys
with.you.
io
-Matching Transmitter(§) to Your
Vehicle
Your Corvette comes equipped from the
-factory with one Passive Keyless Entry
system transmitter. Additional
transmitters may be purchased through
your- dealer. Each Bey chain transmitter
is coded to prevent another transmitter
from unlocking your vehicle. If a
transmitter is lost or stolen, a
replacement can be purchasdthrough
your dealer. Remember to bring theremaining. transmitter (s) with you when
you go to your dealer. When the dealer
matches the replacement transmitter to
your vehicle, the remaining
transmitter(s) must aIso be matched.
‘Once the new transmitter is coded, the
lost transmitter will not unlock your
vehicle.
Programming Transmiff ers
The Passive Keyless Entry system
allows up to thee transmitters to be
matched to your Corvette. Each
transmitter has its own code. To
operate with your~particular vehicle, the
code needs to be programmed into the
system.
To Engage the Pmgramming Mode:
1 I Move all transmitters out of range.
2. Turn.the ignition key on.
3. Push the TRIP ODO button on the
Driver Information Center twice.
4. Within five seconds, press and hold
the FUEL INFO button on the
Driver Inforfiation Center until the
PASSIVE KEYLESS ENTRY light
comes on and stays on. --
5. Turn the ignition key to the Off
position, but leave the key in the
ignitiofi..
The PASSIVE KEYLESS ENTRY
light should flash once per second
signaling that the system is ready to
program the first transmitter. The
number of times the light flashes
corresponds to the number ofthe
transmitter you're programming (once
-per second-for the..first trarrsmitter,
twice per second for the second
transmitter, and three times per second
for the- third transmitter).
Programming a Transmitter:
1. Bringa transmitter into range.
2. 'The PASSIVE KEYLESS ENTRY
light will come on-and stay an,
signaling that-the code has been
stored..
3. Move, the transmitter out of range.
The system light will flash again and
the system is ready for the next
transmitter.
4. You can turn of€ the. pograrnming,
node by removing the ley from the
ignitipn or by turning the ignition on.
Turning uff the programming. mode
before you pro-gram my transmitters
will-not .cancel-any transmitter codes
akeady programmed into the system.
Bringing m&e than one transmitter
into range at :a time will make it
difficult for the system to search-for
individual codes.
The program-ming: mode will shut off
after two minutes Z
you have not programed any
-* ~l;ou have taken the key out of the
after three transmitters have been
If a transmitter is lost or stden, a
replacement can be .purchased through
yourdealer.
If .fewer-than three transmitters are
programmed, only those transmitters
will work with your vehicle.
When the.first transmitter is
programmed, all prev.ious transmitter
codes.,wiU be erased. So when , , ,
pto'grmming a new transmitter,~d
other transmitters must be
.reprogrammed.
transmittegs,
ignition, or
programmed.
SI
-
Features & Contr ,Is
Baff ery Replacement
Under normal use., the batteries in your
key chain.tramnitter should last about
eighteen months.
You can tell the batteries are weak if the
transmitter won’t workat the normal
range in any location. If you have to get
close to your vehicle before the
transmitter works, it’s probably time to
change the batteries.
To Replace Yaw Battery:
1. Gently pry the back of the transmitter
Off.
2. Gently push back the batteryretainer
and remove the battery (DL2450 or
equivalent),
-3. Replace the battery by placing the
negative side down first.
4. Replace the transmitter covmand
squeeze the two halves together.
5. Check the transmitter operation.
Theft
Vehicle theft is big business, especially
in some cities. Although yo.ur Corvette
$as a number of theft deterrent features,
we how that nothi-ng we put on it can
make it impossible to steal. However,
there are ways you can help.
Key in the Ignition: If you walk awgy
from your vehicle with the keys inside,
it’-s ;an.easy target far joy riders or
professional thieves-so don’t do it.
When you park your Corvette and
open the driver’s door, you’ll heat a
chime reminding you to remove your
key from the ignition and take it with
you. Always do this. Your steering
wheel will be locked, and so will yo.ur
ignition. I€ you have-an autbmatic
transmission,, taking your key out also
locks your transmission-. And
remiember to lock the doors.
.A
Universal Theft Deterrent
Your Corvette has a theft, deterrent
darm system. Witb-this syitm, the
SECvrriI'IY light will flash..as you open
the door (if yam ignition is off).
This light 1.ernind.s you. tsar..m the theft
deterrent: system.
Here's 'How tu Ro It:
I. open the doQr;
2. Lock the door with the. p.ower.door
lock switch or Passive LQyless Entry
System. The SECURITY light should
come on and stay on,
light should go off.
3. Close -all door$* .The: SECURITY
If a door or the hatch is opened without
ths key or Passive Keyfe'ss Entry
systm, the alarm wil go off.
Your vehicle's horn will sound for thee
minutes, then WilLgo .off to save battery
power. And, your vehiclewill not start.
Remember, the theft deterrent sys-tem
won't arm if you lock the doors with, a.
key ox manual. 4oor lock. It ms only if
you use a power door io& switch or.
'Passive Key]ess Entry system.
Features & Controls
If you set off the alarm by accident,
unlock any door with your key, or insert
the ignition key in the ignition. You can
also turn off the alarm by using,the
Passive Keyless Entry system.
The alarm won't stop if you try to
uniock a door any other way.
How to Test the Alarm:
Follow these steps .to test your alarm
System:
1 Make sure that the rear hatch is
2. Leave -a window down.
3. Arm the system as explained
4. Close the doors and wait five seconds.
5. Reach in though the window, unlock
the door from inside the vehicle, and
open the door. The alarm should
sound.
6. Shut off the alarm by using the. door
key to uniock either door from the
outside of.the vehicle, or insert the
key in the ignition.
latched.
previously.
I
r",
f
I J
If the atarm does not sound when it
should, check to see- if the horn works.
The horn fuse may be blown. To replace
the fuse, see the Index under Pus@ G
Circuit Breukers .
To reduce the possibility af theft,
always arm the theft deterrent system
when leavh.lg your vehicle.
PASS-Key'"
Your vehicle is. equipped with the
PASS-Key'" (Personalized Automotive
Security -System) theft deterrent system.
PASS-Key" is:a passive theft deterrent
System. This m-eans ygu don't have to
do- anything different to amn or disarm
the system. It worlrs when you insert m
remove the key ~~QI-II the ignition.
PASS-Key'" uses a resistor pellet in the
ignition key that matches a decoder in
your vehicle.
Whenthe PAS.S-Key'" system. senses
thgt someone is using the.wrong key, it
shuts dom the vehiWs starter md he1
systems. For about the minutes, the
starter won't work and hel won't


Let me know how you make out
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Yes, I see that section now. I was about 7 pages ahead on pass key. I will try programming system tomorrow. Only question I still have is wouldn't the remote be working manually or are you suggesting that the fob could have some how lost its programming?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Could have happened, BUT, you may have toggled it off.
You toggle passive action on or off by depressing and holding the door button for 2-3 seconds until the locks cycle on and off.
You may have inadvertently turned it off.
Perhaps try that first.

I would also check all door switches to make sure that they are working properly, and the hatch switch as well.

Marty

[dredgeguy]

Batteries only last 18 months?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Your chime, interior lights and ignition key are all interrelated.
Once you have all of them working, I submit that the car will crank.

Everything that you have stated points to the starter circuit not being energized
You hear fuel and vacuum pumps, which are all activated for the start sequence.
However, if you read the FSM, it specifically states that failing the anti theft protocol only prevents CRANKING.

It would be great if you could determine if there is 12 plus volts going to the starter when the key is turned to start.
If it is, then the percussion persuasion applied to the starter as Mark suggested likely will get you going.
Although my bet is you are not getting that voltage as the VATS is preventing it.
The CCM wants to see a car unlocked with the key or the remote, then interior light draw, then correct resistance in the ignition circuit.
Now in the shop I do not have to do all 3 each time, but if 1,2, or 3 have NOT happened, the starter does not get energized by the CCM.
You MAY, repeat MAY have done something to the CCM when you installed the battery or charged it, but I doubt that at this point.
Until you have pass key, chime and interior lights, I would not be suspicious of the CCM.

Also have you tried the start with both the battery and a battery box connected while turning the key?

I am more suspicious of your door switches. they directly control both the chime and the interior lights, and as mentioned the CCM looks for input from those circuits.
If your fuses are all good, then the switches are the next thing to look at.

I am further puzzled as to why your fully charged battery died in one week.
C-4's do not draw enough to do that unless something is creating such a draw.
Or your battery is not as robust as you think.
Did you take it for testing?
And lastly, having only one key has not convinced me that there may still be an issue with the resistance.
Many of these things are simple to rule out.
But at this point, we have not ruled out
1- the battery
2-PKE
3 interior lights
4 key
5 key circuit.

Marty

[RubyredEd]

Marty,Today tried to get remote to work but no good. Tried to reprogram following the sequence you sent me and that did not work. I didn't get any messages displayed when I started the programming. Holding the lock button down also does nothing. The door lock switches both work fine as does horn and headlights and the hatch release button works. Radio works and seats work. I do have full voltage on the 10ga red wire in the wire loom. Still no chime when keys are in the ignition and door is opened, also don't notice any interior lights when door opened. Had battery load tested and its strong, only 2 weeks old. Also put new battery in remote fob 2 weeks ago.
I have tried putting a battery charger on boost 200 amp when the old battery was in and that also didn't work.
When I turn the key on it seems that all the normal lights come on for a time on the dash with the exception of security or PKE. WHAT DO YOU THINK.
Thanks, Ed

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Do your interior lights light if you move the dimmer all the way beyond high to turn on the lights?
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Don't know, I'm guessing that they will not just based on the fact I've never changed the setting from when they were working. I'll be back to where the car is stored on Friday and I will give it a try.

[geezer]

JMHO :

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/additional-tech/1701-fixing-your-1993-1996-corvettes-passive-keyless-entry-system

[RubyredEd]

Also good advice, be trying these suggestions tomorrow! Thanks.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

You really need to be able to interrogate your CCM for trouble codes.
You can either borrow a scanner (OBDI) or look for instructions on how to use a jumper wire on your ALDL to read the codes stored.
Specifically you want to see if code 51,52,53 or 61,62,63 is present.
These codes each relate to your pass key resistance or if there is a problem with the pass key circuit.
If none of those codes are present you know your key and all are good, and then try getting 12 volts to the starter wire or beating the starter.
If any one of those are present that would prevent cranking, and would explain why your fob , security light etc are non responsive.
In that case you need to correct the circuit or replace the key.
The pass key circuit wires are two VERY thin white wires that begin in the ignition lock cylinder and convey the resistance code to the CCM.
You can also try some contact cleaner on the key before you insert it.

Again try your panel dimmer switch all the way up to turn your interior lights on to see if they work.

I feel badly that you have not been successful getting it going.
Stay with it.
You will figure it out!
:cheers:
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Today I took the advice of Geezer and checked the three fuse suggested(even though I already checked them all) and they were good. Then I jumped out and the A & G terminal on the obd1 connector, turned ignition to on and nothing displayed. Then I took Martys advice and checked if my interior lights were being controled by the dimmer switch and they are and will click to stay on however I just realized the there were no dash lights in the speedometer area but they are working everywhere else! Never noticed that before. Also put the new battery on 200 amp boost and tried ignition and same problem, didnt work. Im convinced that Im being locked out of ignition circuit somehow. I dont have a OBD1 reader thats why I tried jumping A & G but as I said nothing came on dash.

[RubyredEd]

Pulled the new battery back out today and could not see anything unusual. However I noticed the underhood lights looked dim so I checked the battery voltage and it was down to 6.4 volts! Ive double checked everything that could be left on and cant find any reason for this drain. Also Ive contacted my local Chevy dealership and the service tech who is familar with these cars is telling me that the programming to my key may have been lost and needs to be reprogrammed if not even a new key due to the previous dead battery and battery swap. They obviously can't tell me until I flatbed the car to them. That was before I found out about the low voltage battery.
Looks like I might have to send the car to the dealership. Any thoughts?

[geezer]

Pm sent!!

[RubyredEd]

Reacharged the battery, reading 13.1 volts
Got an OBD1 scan tool, connected to port and turned key to on.
Engine fan turned on and still nothing displayed.
Not sure what to think now?

[geezer]

Check your Private Messages here on this site. PM's have been sent.

[RubyredEd]

is this the fusible link? It is located behind the battery. How should I check it?
Also, I cant see where I could slide something down through the plenum to strike the starter. Anybody know exactly at what position I would have to be?

[geezer]

That is one end of the Fuse Block #1 feed. The smaller orangish wire should be one end of the fusible link. Locate the lower end of these wires & verify good connection at the connector point for this + cable & all cables at this point. Remove batt. to properly verify this. Check fusible link by placing VOM lead on the common connector point & use a straight pin to puncture the other side of the fusible link & connect the other VOM lead to read continuity. In other words test the orangish wire with the bulge to ensure continuity from one side through to the other side of the bulge( fusible link).

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

You are now going about this correctly, i.e. from the beginning.
As the thread progressed it became clear that a number of things are going on.
1- The battery should not go dead in a C-4 in days. if the battery tested good at the auto parts store with a load test, then your next step is:
2- check ALL connections, beginning with the battery terminal bolts and working back to the termination of all the cables and wires coming off of the battery, including the ground.
3- If your battery has tested and now tests good, yet you are still losing charge, you need to find out where the draw is that is killing it. Either there is an active short, or something is staying active when off.
Your current effort inspecting the fusible links is a good start, but I would want to know what took the link out before I repair it. Perhaps a crossed connection when removing or installing the battery, or accidentally hooking the charger or jump box up backwards? If that happened that would be good news as we would know the problem will not continue.
If your test meter indicates a current draw, begin removing a fuse at a time to see which circuit or device is causing the draw.
If the fusible link has melted it had to be a pretty good jolt, which could have caused an issue with other electronics such as the ecm or ccm, but lets not go there yet.

Something is causing or caused the entire dash display to be out. You need to identify the cause before going further.

If you have not yet acquired a factory service manual, a complete set, that is now a necessity in order to diagnose what is or is not going on.

I doubt it would have just occurred from storage. Something, and somewhat of a big something, caused these multiple issues.

Check for rodent evidence. If found, a very careful inspection of all underhood wiring is in order.

Again, keep us posted on your progress.
:cheers:
Marty

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Pulled the new battery back out today and could not see anything unusual. However I noticed the underhood lights looked dim so I checked the battery voltage and it was down to 6.4 volts! Ive double checked everything that could be left on and cant find any reason for this drain. Also Ive contacted my local Chevy dealership and the service tech who is familar with these cars is telling me that the programming to my key may have been lost and needs to be reprogrammed if not even a new key due to the previous dead battery and battery swap. They obviously can't tell me until I flatbed the car to them. That was before I found out about the low voltage battery.
Looks like I might have to send the car to the dealership. Any thoughts?

Once you have resolved the draw issue, you might want to call local locksmiths.
All should be have the equipment to read the key, and many have the interrogator required to test to the ccm for the proper resistance as the key is inserted.
You should find the locksmith to be far less expensive than the Chevrolet dealer, and no tow is required.
:cheers:
Marty

[RubyredEd]

OK, I thought I would get to it today but it now looks like Monday. Any thoughts on where I can purchase the FSM?

[geezer]

I'll send you one. PM your address.

[karlaw]

Very interesting reading here. I still have 2 - 1990 ZR-1 cars, neither have started in last 3 years. I believe I have the exact same scenario.
One thing to note was I did discover in the upper column ignition key switch, that the tiny white wire was broken where it contacts the key switch, so I bought new key switch and proper new key with the same resistor.
Have not tried starting since new switch installed, BUT I am using one of those aftermarket VATS BYPASS electrical box that I found at a corvette parts supplier, which in my mind should eliminate the need for that tiny white broken wire issue to be replaced???? Or am I wrong in thinking that way ??
Anyways will be again trying to work on my red car, starting from scratch all over again in case I missed something. This time hope to find and check every ground wire.
Years ago on a base 1990 corvette....it won't start in front of buddies Auto Electric Repair Shop.
Took him 2weeks trying everything possible, finally run an extra ground wire to the ECM, started right up......defied all logic, but it worked great !


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[karlaw]

Question: does my 1990 ZR/1 have the PKE, passive key , I never have had key fobs for either cars. Should I need to get new FOBs to be able to play with the door locks to try and get security light working ? Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using ZR-1 Net Registry (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[geezer]

Ruby red Ed: PM sent re: manual.

[geezer]

Karlaw: No PKE until '93MY.

[RubyredEd]

Today got to check both fusible links behind battery and both are good. Checked all connections and everything appears as new (10,000 mile car).
It certainly seems like something that a fuse would cause but Ive checked every fuse in the car twice, both underhood sets and the main panel at the end of the dash.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Did you check by eyesight, or did you back probe each with a meter?
:cheers:
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Checked with meter, pierced wires on far side of link back to junction of battery cable. Battery out of car, got continuity.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Sorry for the confusion, I meant on the fuses in all fuse blocks.
:cheers:
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Not sure of what you mean by "on the fuses" in the fuse blocks?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Not sure of what you mean by "on the fuses" in the fuse blocks?

Use your test leads to back probe each side of each fuse without removing the fuse from the block with the ignition in the run position.
I would pay particular attention to the circuits that are out.
You have a loss of power to at least the dash panel, and likely to the CCM.
These are fused circuits.
You have checked the battery and all of the related connections, as well as the fusible links,.
Lets now see if each fused circuit is getting and transmitting power.
:cheers:
Marty

[RubyredEd]

OK, I get what youre saying but I'm not sure there is enough room around the fuses to insert the test lead tips but I'll definitely give it a try! Thanks.

[geezer]

As I mentioned in my PM . Now check that power is leaving the pos. conn. & arriving at #2 fuse block Interior Lt. fuse-20amp. Power here? if so this feeds directly to the LCD fuse in the I/P fuse block. Power here? LCD fuse feeds chime & instrument panel & Security Lt. If power is leaving the LCD fuse but no chime, Sec Lt , etc the circuit is open. Remove the Instrument panel & check the SEC. bulb. If blown it will open a feed to the CCM.

[geezer]

Following the foregoing will do what Marty is saying- that " each fused circuit is getting & transmitting power"

[RubyredEd]

Got it. Is the #2 fuse block the one behind the battery and the I/p fuse panel the one at the end of the dash?

[geezer]

#2 Fuse block is forward of the battery. #1 Fuse block is firewall side of battery. I/P fuse block is Rt. side end of dash.

[RubyredEd]

Thank you, I'll be checking it out tomorrow.

[RubyredEd]

Today I checked the #2 fuse block 20 amp int. light and fuse is good and power is passing through it, then went on to check the LCD fuse and determined fuse is good and also has power passing through it. I know at this point you said that the security light most likely would be the culprit, however, I was checking power at all the fuses in the I/p block and I found out that power is NOT passing through fuse #11 which is RH illum. fuse and is the only fuse that I found that was blown a few weeks ago, I just never checked to see if power was going through! It is a 5 amp and I did replace it at that time not realizing that there was no power there. I'm thinking this has to have something to do with the problem.

[geezer]

So with Rh Illum. fuse issue I'm thinking RH door switch as a possible shorting area. I would expect that the rear view mirror lt. is not working also.
When you get the Manual check the wiring diag. for RH Illum. & see what is feed from the fuse. I still would check the RH door switch . Pull it & disconnect & see if the Fuse holds.

[geezer]

If you still have the OBD1 tool you can scan for Door switch problems & CCM codes.
If you do remove a door switch be aware the backing plate for the screws will drop down inside the door if both are removed. Remove one & replace with a much longer one which will hold the plate & allow access to the wiring.

You have determined power is leaving the LCD fuse which feeds directly to the SEC. Lt , chime etc. yet no SEC. Lt. Will a 'no start' issue result if the SEc.Lt circuit is open( blown bulb) .Perhaps Marc H. or others could answer this.

[RubyredEd]

The fuse has no power through it at this time and it has been replaced. I will check the rear view mirror light. When I used the scan tool the only thing that happened was it turned the cooling fan on? I couldn't get any codes to display. When the FSM shows up I think that will help to track this down and thank you for that.

[geezer]

I assume you mean the RH. illum fuse has no power through it?

[geezer]

Also tracking indicates " attempted delivery notice card left" . Did you get the Notice Card??

[RubyredEd]

You are correct, the fuse has no power at either side of it. And yes I did get an attempted delivery slip, I guess they were requiring signature, and no one there during daytime, so I left a signature on the slip. Never even realized it could have been you. Thanks again, Ed

[RubyredEd]

Received the FSM today! Wow, lots of info. Looking at the wiring diagram it appears RH courtesy light, power seats , etc get power from the 30amp power seat circuit breaker which has not been checked. I know the power seat is not working and interior courtesy lights are not either so maybe this has something to do with the problem. Again, I can't thank you enough Bill, that was amazing.

[RubyredEd]

Checked the power seat circuit breaker and its good. All interior lights work when turning them on using the interior switch but do not go on when doors are opened. Seems like whatever is controlling power to door light switches probably also controls security light circuit.
Also, remote fob is also not working.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Do you have horn and radio operation?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

power out of LCD 5 amp fuse feeds the following:
Instrument Cluster
CCM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tone Generator
Horn Relay
Courtesy lamp Relay
Radio control Head

The CCM is responsible for controlling the starter enable circuit!!!
so either it is not getting power, it has a short, or it took a dump.
You are missing at least 4 of those 6.
Circuit 1902 warrants review!
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Definetly have radio and power antenna, never checked horn. Did check LCD fuse and it was good with power passing through it.

[geezer]

I don't think the Courtesy fuses are the same as illum. fuses so clarify what the RH illum. fuse feeds. As stated previously the LCD fuse feeds the Chime & Instrument panel then to the SEc. Lt.

[geezer]

Also the interior lights will not show with open door if the ambient light is bright. Cover the sensor in the dash ( beside TRIP/ MONITOR) with some tape & see if int. lts. work.

[RubyredEd]

Interior lights not going on when door opens in pitch black garage.

[RubyredEd]

I've been through the FSM electrical diagnosis section at length and it seems like the common denominator for all that is not working is the CCM. Is this a part that can still be gotten through Chevy? Anybody have any experience in replacing it? I know it has to be programmed so does that mean it's a dealership repair?

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

The most likely , but unfortunate culprit.
No longer available.
Reach out to Top Toy on this Forum.
He is parting out his 93.
Perhaps he still has it.
You then will need to find one to program it.
Otherwise, your car will have his info.
I doubt that expertise / equipment is at any Chevrolet dealer, but it is still done.
:cheers:
Marty

[-=Jeff=-]

The most likely , but unfortunate culprit.
No longer available.
Reach out to Top Toy on this Forum.
He is parting out his 93.
Perhaps he still has it.
You then will need to find one to program it.
Otherwise, your car will have his info.
I doubt that expertise / equipment is at any Chevrolet dealer, but it is still done.
:cheers:
Marty


I don't a CCM can be programmed more than once.. If it can be done I am all ears, I have one I want reprogrammed

[geezer]

The CCM has likely always been in the back of our mind on this however lets exhaust as many possibles as we can. I still think the Engine block ground connections should be checked & cleaned. G105 & G106 I believe. This is common to much of your issues!

It would also be appropriate to access the CCM & follow the test procedure in the FSM to actually determine a CCM failure. You will have to access the CCM anyway if you do find a replacement.

[RubyredEd]

Grounds are good. Trying to find a CCM replacement before I pull it out.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

https://corvetteparts.com/item/rebuild-service-electronic-computer-body-control-module-ccm-bcm-1992-1993

While I am still not quite convinced for certain that it is the CCM, here is how to resolve it if it is.
They rebuild and re-program your unit.

Most CCM errors or failures cause SYS to Flash, yet you continue to have no display anywhere on the IP.
While the CCM is suspect, there just seems to be more going on.................
A pinched wire
A short somewhere on the IP

I guess it could not hurt to send your CCM in for repair, but requesting them to alert you if no trouble is found, stating that you will pay either way.

Keep us posted.
:cheers:
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Will do. Going to wait a few days too cold in the garage right now to continue. Thanks for the advice.

[geezer]

PM sent.

[RubyredEd]

OK, so we finally know what was wrong. We changed the CCM(body control module) purchased used from a Corvette dealer and everything started working!
Of course now I have to send mine out to be repaired so I can preserve the super low mileage, only about 15,000 and of course all the options that these cars come with. The unit we put in was from a 92 LT1 with high miles. Had to use a resistor for the Vats, until my unit gets rebuilt. Definitely going to do a vats delete at that time.
Thank you everyone who shared valuable knowledge with me. Still don't know what caused it to go bad, maybe the rebuilder will have an indication of what happened!
All the best, Ed
I'll post the results of the rebuild as soon as I get the info.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Ed,
That is VERY good news!
Happy to hear it!!
:cheers:
Marty

[RubyredEd]

Thank you Marty. Very happy the nightmare is almost over!

[geezer]

Great news Ed !!

[RubyredEd]

Thanks in great part to receiving the FSM! Following the schematics make everything a lot clearer. And thank you for that Bill and sharing your knowledge!

[RubyredEd]

So I had the CCM (body control module) repaired so I could preserve the low mileage and vin # but unfortunately the repair did not work once it was plugged in. The engine would turn over but no dash lights and no start. The repair company did refund my cost but now I'm stuck with a CCM that shows 117,000 miles when the actual is under 16,000. Luckily the car is running but I've got to find a way the correct the mileage and vin. Any suggestions? I of course still have the original CCM that didn't get fixed.

[Corvette95]

If you don’t mind, where did you send you ccm for programming? Did they indicate why their programming didn’t take? I have been looking for a new GM ccm as I thought I had one in my extra parts . I may can get you a new ccm if you have access to someone that can program it locally with your car. I have one on order and when it comes in, I can let you know if it is new gm as dictated . Where are you located? I’m on the mobile app and can’t see your location.


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[RubyredEd]

My original CCM was sent to G7 computers in New York, but unfortunately the repair did not work and they refunded my money. I have now placed an order with Dino's Corvette Salvage and he has a guy who can enter the correct mileage and vin. At this time I am waiting for it to arrive and hopefully all will be good again. I am located in New York.

[Corvette95]

My original CCM was sent to G7 computers in New York, but unfortunately the repair did not work and they refunded my money. I have now placed an order with Dino's Corvette Salvage and he has a guy who can enter the correct mileage and vin. At this time I am waiting for it to arrive and hopefully all will be good again. I am located in New York.
Let me know how Dino's works out. He bought a lot of my LT5 NOS stuff back in 2014 when I downsized, wish I had kept more of it now. :-({|=

[RubyredEd]

Ok will do!

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Dino's was my last chance when looking for an airbag derm module for a 90.
Something that when you buy a used one, you hope that it works for many reasons, other than just clearing the code!
They got it to me quickly and it worked perfectly!
Let us know how they do with your CCM.
Which one did you send, the generic Corvette one or that one and your original?
Best of luck!!
Marty

[RubyredEd]

No Marty, I still have my original that did not get repaired properly and the generic one I bought is currently in the car. Dino supplied the core and that is what will ultimately be installed. I will be out of town and traveling for a while so this be on hold for a while. I'll definitely let you know how it all works out.
Thanks for all your help!
Ed.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Ed,
I look forward to hearing that the Ruby is all fine and has it's correct mileage and VIN restored in the replacement CCM.
Rest easy when done, it is a rare occurrence, and should not happen again.
I have never seen empirical proof of what goes wrong in the CCM or a definitive cause when it happens.
Most suspect a power surge or spike.
Using a jump box as opposed to another vehicle and making certain that the cables are hooked up correctly are the only items that you can control.
As another poster referenced with the fire at the phone company, some fuses and fusible links just do not react quickly or fully enough with DC current.
You get an A+ for your perseverance and efforts and will be recognized as the Subject Matter Expert for this type of failure and repair resolution as we move forward.
Please do remember to close the loop for future owners searching for answers.
Good Luck and enjoy your ZR-1!
:cheers:
Marty

[-=Jeff=-]

Yes, looking forward to hearing results.. I have a newish one I need reprogrammed to my miles on my car..

[captcorvette]

Took my '90 ZR-1 out of storage. Battery was disconnected but has been two years so just bought a new battery and installed same. No starter engagement but lights dim when trying. OK so pulled the car a bit to see if I could get a start from the pulling. No luck and if my old brain has not stopped working it felt like the engine was jammed. Possible the starter is jammed and stopping the engine from turning over? Sure the starter gear is small and doesn't seem likely but most issues I have had with the Z have been unusual for my experiences. All comments, suggestions etc. gladly accepted. Thanks. By the bye we now have 3 ZR-1's (C4's) in UAE, one I know of in Saudi and two in Kuwait.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

The fact that the lights dim when key is turned to the start position suggests that current is getting to the starter.
That would eliminate most all but the starter as far as the starting protocol.
While it is possible that something is jammed, the most probable is the starter drive is engaging, but not spinning due to either insufficient voltage getting to it or a problem within the starter, such as the contacts.
You might try a battery jump box hooked to you battery. Occasionally, that extra has helped.
Can you hear the starter drive engaging? Someone standing and listening closely should hear the drive.
I would take a few minutes to clean all of the battery connection surfaces and the bolts, then make sure all are tight.
Check the battery as well to make sure it has the proper voltage. New ones have been known to be weak, which using the jump box might overcome.
You might want to rock the car a little, as well as trying to tap the starter.
Did it turn even slightly when you first hit the key to start?
Let us know how that goes and we can move on from there.
:cheers:
Marty

[Jagdpanzer]

Sounds as though the engine may have seized up. Stop everything and pull the spark plugs to see what they look like. Then try turning the engine over with the plugs out. Given your location at least freeze damage can be ruled out.


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[Dynomite]

Took my '90 ZR-1 out of storage. Battery was disconnected but has been two years so just bought a new battery and installed same. No starter engagement but lights dim when trying. OK so pulled the car a bit to see if I could get a start from the pulling. No luck and if my old brain has not stopped working it felt like the engine was jammed. Possible the starter is jammed and stopping the engine from turning over? Sure the starter gear is small and doesn't seem likely but most issues I have had with the Z have been unusual for my experiences. All comments, suggestions etc. gladly accepted. Thanks. By the bye we now have 3 ZR-1's (C4's) in UAE, one I know of in Saudi and two in Kuwait.

I would say Starter Solenoid.....;)

Post 52 - Starter, Starter Relay, Wiring Harness, Battery, and Plugs Tricks (http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c4-zr-1-discussion/3005470-tech-info-lt5-modifications-rebuild-tricks-500-hp-3.html#post1581564085)

The Starter Solenoid is shown in the left photo with slight burnt contacts in right photo.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/350x300-1/80-bac49725_6086_4f07_a929_9f1f498e4d50_1__dab0355503 a648614325bf258970d05c5b00e0f3.jpghttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/350x300-1/80-e8886408_e5b8_40d3_a5d2_199e22f85e0a_1__8099e51dcf e7e3aac179a153f6cd3d0edc6d6515.jpg

This would require removal of plenum in either event (Starter jammed or Solenoid).

I find it hard to believe starter jammed espercially if you pushed the Z in gear.....
Likewise find it hard to believe engine is frozen....
But having run into two unbelievable situations with the LT5....
A. Water Pump Impeller spinning on shaft...
B. INJ1 Fuse kept blowing.....(still have not figured out why but using plastic Wire Looms solved the issue).
I find anything is possible :p

[RubyredEd]

Well believe it or not, finally got the problem solved! It was the BCM OR CCM if you prefer. Had Dino's set my mileage and everything is working as it should. Would have been done with this months ago but this corona virus really slowed things down.
Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice!

[karlaw]

Where is this Dino's located and is it possible to get a phone number for them ?
Thanks guys


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[karlaw]

I once again will be trying to get both my 1990 ZR cars to start , but I think I need at least one CCM, and my question is:
What years will work on my 1990 cars, and will a regular corvette ccm work ?


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[Marc Haibeck]

You don't need to get into the messy situation of finding and installing a CCM if the engine won't crank. The CCM controls the start relay. The start relay can be removed and bypassed to eliminate the CCM's involvement with activating the starter. The VATS fuel control can be turned off in the ECM chip. Then the engine will crank and fire even if the car doesn't have a CCM.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

Where is this Dino's located and is it possible to get a phone number for them ?
Thanks guys


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https://corvettesalvage.com/

:cheers:
Marty

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

You don't need to get into the messy situation of finding and installing a CCM if the engine won't crank. The CCM controls the start relay. The start relay can be removed and bypassed to eliminate the CCM's involvement with activating the starter. The VATS fuel control can be turned off in the ECM chip. Then the engine will crank and fire even if the car doesn't have a CCM.

Good to know!
One or both could solve the riddle.
Thanks Mark!
:cheers:
Marty

[Corvette95]

Well believe it or not, finally got the problem solved! It was the BCM OR CCM if you prefer. Had Dino's set my mileage and everything is working as it should. Would have been done with this months ago but this corona virus really slowed things down.
Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice!

Did you have your bad unit rebuilt or buy a used unit? Did they program everything such as VIN,MILEAGE and Vats and Engine configuration?

[RubyredEd]

I purchased a used unit from Dino's and he has a programmer who is able to put all your info. This was an absolute for me since my car only has 15,000 miles. Did have to match the vats with a resistor. Wasn't cheap but I had tried everything else and nothing solved the problem so it was worth it to me. I did purchase a used CCM before I ordered from Dino and it did work so I decided to use his service and his unit and I will keep mine as a spare although it reads 117,000 miles.

[Macroblock]

Just thought I would chime in for those experiencing strange starting issues.

Some years back I discovered the clutch-lock-out switch was troublesome by design.

The clutch switch forces the driver to fully depress the clutch to engage the starter. The current travelling thru this switch feeds the starter solenoid directly, so the contacts get pitted over time. This pitting makes things progressively worse. Before long the starter will not engage due to a lack of current thru the switch.

The switch can be by-passed or replaced depending on your preference. The wire to the switch is of a heavy gage.