Re: TB removal and then some!!!

[Roadster]

Well it's been awhile since I've posted up....I haven't ran or even started the 94 since last June....ever since I did a number on the AC Compressor...
Have a new one ready to install and noticed when I slightly lifted the plenum....the gaskets ripped on both sides....kind of disappointed with that as they only had a few thousand miles on them..
Ended up pulling the plenum completely....will order new gaskets or reuse my originals....
Now have open access to the AC compressor....this should be interesting....[emoji849][emoji16]9597959895999600

Sent from my SM-G965U using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Roadster]

Posting up on your cell is a challenge to say the least.....:confused:

[Young1]

Grease the gasket and it won't stick

[A26B]

The principal purpose of a gasket is to seal, not to slip, slide & be reusable.

Real disappointment would be to install a plenum gasket & have it move around & let coolant into an intake runner or have a vacuum leak. Gripping the mating surfaces is a good characteristic.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

The principal purpose of a gasket is to seal, not to slip, slide & be reusable.

Real disappointment would be to install a plenum gasket & have it move around & let coolant into an intake runner or have a vacuum leak. Gripping the mating surfaces is a good characteristic.



Wisdom there!


Gaskets = Inexpensive
Engine = Pricey
Choose wisely.
Marty

[dredgeguy]

Tom,
My AC compressor failed during the BG trip last week and we are replacing it today at Wazoo headquarters. Come on down!

[Roadster]

Grease the gasket and it won't stick

What do you recommend to use if necessary.....hopefully I won't have to pull the plenum again.....lol.....did I really say that!!!

The principal purpose of a gasket is to seal, not to slip, slide & be reusable.

Real disappointment would be to install a plenum gasket & have it move around & let coolant into an intake runner or have a vacuum leak. Gripping the mating surfaces is a good characteristic.

I hear you there Jerry.....guess I didn't understand the difference of the thicker gasket being more prone to tear when removed as opposed to less chance of the thinner gasket doing the same.....I did the coolant bypass 2 years ago....so I won't have to worry and when I removed the plenum twice before the gaskets remained in one piece....not complaining....just understanding the situation better now....
Btw.....order new gaskets from you and they were here in short order....thanks for shipping quickly as always....:)

Wisdom there!


Gaskets = Inexpensive
Engine = Pricey
Choose wisely.
Marty

Yes Marty.....I can always use wisdom.....lol

Tom,
My AC compressor failed during the BG trip last week and we are replacing it today at Wazoo headquarters. Come on down!

Yes I did read that Charlie....you have had some luck with your AC system....
Would really enjoy coming down....but have started working to get the 74 back together by the end of Summer....ready to finish up the engine and putting more of the suspension together....so no real time as of now....but I'm sure there will be pics and text posted soon on your install....:)

[Roadster]

Well I have the AC Compressor out of the engine compartment and on the bench....as you can see in the pics that the original and replacement are identical....which is a good thing...lol
I am still debating on whether or not to change out the accumulator.....I know that I probably should...but IIRC....the FSM mentions not to replace it...yet Denso insists on it for compressor warranty purposez....if I can remove it easily....I will probably do it....
In the pics....the original and the replacement...the mess up I did on the shaft...getting ready to do a cleanup...had to loosen the alternator bolt to remove the compressor bolt...966396649665966696679668

Sent from my SM-G965U using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Roadster]

And the side by side....also need to make sure I get the correct compressor oil....anyone have a part number or the correct name....I know it has to be R134a compatible.....but there are different oils out there from what I can determine....thanks...9669

Sent from my SM-G965U using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Roadster]

In addition to the info that Dave Hetrick has posted here in the Group and the new FB Group....I have been doing a lot of research myself....this is what I have found out about the correct PAG oil to use in our compressors......our compressors are to use PAG 46 which is equivalent to ND-8 oil which is required for our Reciprocating Swash Plate R134a Compressor....here is a PAG Oil reference Chart to check out.... http://greenvald.co.il/.../12/PAG_oils_application-05.pdf and here is part of an article from MACS talking about the different types of PAG Oil available and their thickness in reference to use in AC Compressors.. "There are companies that sell oils (both ester and PAG) that are advertised as being “universal” that can supposedly be used in anything (except the hybrids referenced above) and with both R-12 and R-134a. But their use is a recipe for potential problems. There is a difference in the viscosity (thickness) of PAG 46, PAG 100 and PAG 150. You can actually see the difference by observing each being poured from their respective containers.
With that being the case, when utilizing a universal oil you can end up with one that is too thick for some applications and too thin for others. While that may not make a big difference with some compressors and the oil may work, there are others where the correct viscosity is critical, and the use of anything other than what is recommended can cause excessive noise or premature compressor failure. Also, if you just need to add some oil to a system, it isn’t a good idea to mix different types of oils, as you would do if you add universal to an R-12 system that contained mineral oil" So again....this is just additional info to check out before you service or rebuild your AC Compressor....😁😁

I need to call Denso on Tuesday....as I have mixed info from 2 Denso sources.....one says to measure the oil from the old and new compressor then add 2 ounces to each AC part...compressor...accumulator....etc....totaling 8oz... the other Denso info gives a whole different procedure in letting the oil from the new compressor (which is stated to be filled with the correct amount of oil from the factory)\ flow through the system for a period of minutes...etc... so a bit confusing to me....so needs to be verified one way or another...will report back with the determination on which is the correct method to use...😁😁

[Roadster]

Another point of confusion.....in the FSM for 1994 in Book 1 Section 1D for the 10PA17/10PA20 Air Conditioning Compressor Overhaul....on page 1D-5 lists the lubricant for the compressors.....which is GM P/N 12345923 PAG Oil or equivalent.....now on the back of the old and new compressors shown in the pics below....shows on the back labels ND-OIL 8 which in the chart above corresponds with Nippondenso 10PA ND8-PAG 46 ….now look above on the chart and you will find 3 listings right above this one that have GM Delphi/Harrision listed with the GM part # lubricant above.....but is for PAG 150 Oil.....just thought I would point this out....I will be using PAG 46

[Roadster]

The original unit....and the new one...96849685

Sent from my SM-G965U using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Roadster]

Just got off the phone with a tech person from Denso....had an interesting conversation….cleared up a few things for me....now if I can only understand them all...lol
Just passing on the info....
1-Replacement 10PA-17 #471-0339 units already have 4.1oz of ND-OIL 8
PAG 46 in the compressor...from the factory...
2-the system was not designed to be flushed out...if parts are that bad...they should be replaced rather than flushed....
3-when you empty the old compressor of oil.....the ideal amount to get out of the old compressor is 2oz....of course if different (you would need to adjust the amount to be added to the system to total your 8ozs)….and when adding oil....add through the accumulator..(which has been said to replace)..which may only be 1oz more or less needed... depending on how much oil was removed from the old compressor....he gave me a formula....but will have to go over it again and maybe a return call will be needed...
4-when the system is back together....he recommended to hold the Freon can upside down through the high side to push liquid through the system to get everything circulating....then start the engine and then turn the can right side up for the gas to go through the low side...
5-he does not recommend to use any other PAG oil other than the
PAG 46 ND-OIL 8....he said even though your system may work and appear to work fine with those other oils....that there can be durability issues that arise from the viscosity of those other oils...

I am by no means an expert on AC....this is a learning process for me...I am only relaying what was relayed to me....this info is not meant to say what you decide to do or have already done with your AC system is either right or wrong....just meant to pass on the info from talking with the tech guy from Denso....

Stay cool this Summer...

[Roadster]

Just got off the phone with a tech person from Denso....had an interesting conversation….cleared up a few things for me....now if I can only understand them all...lol
Just passing on the info....
1-Replacement 10PA-17 #471-0339 units already have 4.1oz of ND-OIL 8
PAG 46 in the compressor...from the factory...
2-the system was not designed to be flushed out...if parts are that bad...they should be replaced rather than flushed....
3-when you empty the old compressor of oil.....the ideal amount to get out of the old compressor is 2oz....of course if different (you would need to adjust the amount to be added to the system to total your 8ozs)….and when adding oil....add through the accumulator..(which has been said to replace)..which may only be 1oz more or less needed... depending on how much oil was removed from the old compressor....he gave me a formula....but will have to go over it again and maybe a return call will be needed...
4-when the system is back together....he recommended to hold the Freon can upside down through the high side to push liquid through the system to get everything circulating....then start the engine and then turn the can right side up for the gas to go through the low side...
5-he does not recommend to use any other PAG oil other than the
PAG 46 ND-OIL 8....he said even though your system may work and appear to work fine with those other oils....that there can be durability issues that arise from the viscosity of those other oils...

I am by no means an expert on AC....this is a learning process for me...I am only relaying what was relayed to me....this info is not meant to say what you decide to do or have already done with your AC system is either right or wrong....just meant to pass on the info from talking with the tech guy from Denso....

Stay cool this Summer...Finally got back to the ZR-1....the compressor only had 3/4 of 1 oz. in it...so it had to be leaking somewhere...new 94-95 ZR-1 specific AC compressor hoses came in....but were wrong....hoses were reversed....I imagine that they were for the LT1 compressor....most all of the vendors that show pics listed for the ZR-1 are showing the incorrect pic....some vendors don't even have an image posted on their sites.....finally found one vendor that carries the correct part....so we shall see with delivery on Tuesday....also ordered a new condenser....they appear to be the same for both the LT1 and the LT5....found it at a decent price....might not install as of yet and keep as a spare....depending on vacuum pull....
1st pic.....original assembly....
2nd pic....notice how the left top hose is directed to the condenser instead of the accumulator....and the right bottom hose is directed at the accumulator instead of the condenser...they are reversed from the original design....
So if you're looking for new hose assemblies....make sure to check them out before purchasing....
And the vendor I purchased them from had a UPS call tag at my door in just over 12 hours from my call to pick up the package....they were great....also found out that my replacement compressor was manufactured in Nov 2016...so only 2 1/2 years ago...so all should be good inside...[emoji16]98619862

Sent from my SM-G965U using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Roadster]

Also just to clarify the conversation I had with Denso, twice now....is that I am not recommending anyone to follow any of the info stated above about adding Freon to the high side of the system....I think we all know what can happen when that is done with the ENGINE RUNNING.....just to clarify once again...that the Denso rep suggested adding to the high side first with the ENGINE OFF, not running....and then closing the high side valve.....open the low side valve and then START THE ENGINE and add the remaining amount of Freon to the system...is it absolutely necessary to follow the above procedure....absolutely not....as SAFETY is the first and main concern....the Denso rep felt that his procedure is a more efficient way of getting the Freon into the system...again...just wanted to clarify the above conversation.....:)

[Roadster]

The new compressor is installed.....but doesn't look like I'll be changing out the accumulator.....or the hose assembly...as more needs to be removed to remove them....also a known problem from what I read on the AC accumulator hose rubbing on the coolant crossover pipe....98639864

Sent from my SM-G965U using ZR-1 Net Registry mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90383)

[Subfixer]

I'm going through the same right now on my 92. I have replaced the condenser with a new one for 94-95 (R134a). Had to do a small mod to the oil cooler mounting holes to fit the new condenser.
Replaced the compressor (R134a), dryer, flushed the evaporator.
Waiting for the correct hose assemblies. Compressor set and dryer to evap.
Got the evap to condenser line with the correct R134a low side fitting.
Hope the new houses are correct. Been waiting 3 weeks for them.

[Roadster]

I'm going through the same right now on my 92. I have replaced the condenser with a new one for 94-95 (R134a). Had to do a small mod to the oil cooler mounting holes to fit the new condenser.
Replaced the compressor (R134a), dryer, flushed the evaporator.
Waiting for the correct hose assemblies. Compressor set and dryer to evap.
Got the evap to condenser line with the correct R134a low side fitting.
Hope the new houses are correct. Been waiting 3 weeks for them.

I guess since you replaced the condenser, it was a breeze to replace the accumulator and will be for the hoses.....I really don't want to drain the radiator and take everything apart....I was trying to figure out a way to change the accumulator....but with the coolant crossover pipe in the way....doesn't look it will happen....so going to add some oil to the accumulator.....do a vacuum pull and see what happens, my hoses should be here on Tuesday....but will just keep them on hand for the future.

[Subfixer]

I was able to replace the condenser without removing the radiator (or draining antifreeze).
Removing the upper radiator support (PIA) and condenser/oil cooler was enough to move the radiator forward to get the accumulator out.
Still waiting for new hoses. First vendor jerked me around for 3 weeks promising delivery. Cancelled that order and went elsewhere, where the hoses were in stock. Should be here Tuesday.
I'll go with the suggested PAG-46 oil as well.

[Roadster]

So Subfixer….that is great news that you didn't have to drain the radiator to change out the condenser and of course remove the accumulator....
I may do the same now, as I have both a new condenser and accumulator.
Any inside tips you can offer.....I did look at the upper radiator support and it does look like a PIA. But then once the accumulator is out.....the hoses are a breeze....
I sent back 2 sets of hoses to two different vendors, the first set was for a LT1 but marked for a 94-95 ZR-1....the second set was a repro ZR-1 set, but they packed it like a pretzel, put it in a box without any packing material and shipped it out.....needless to say, I wasn't a happy camper....the good news is that they both are refunding the full cost of the items.
So I either take a chance and find another vendor, or find an AC shop to replace and re-crimp the hoses...
Can you let me know which vendor you are using for the hoses, and can you keep us posted on the Tuesday delivery and how they look???
Thanks.....:)

[Subfixer]

First vendor was CC. Backordered without a good timeline. Not very helpful.....
94-95 R134a Compressor hose is coming from Eklers (in stock, I called to make sure). We'll see how it looks. Picture in online catalog was correct.
94-95 R134a Accumulator hose is coming from Zip (in stock as well).
One thing I learned so far: 94-95 Evap to Condenser line can not be used on a pre-94 ZR1. Fittings for the 2 switches (High Pressure switch and cooling switch) are different thread sizes and 94-95 high pressure switch has 3 pins vs 2 pins for pre-94.
So, I'm using the original 92 Evap to Condenser line with a 134a adaptor for the high pressure fitting.
94-95 R134a Low pressure switch is also 3 pin vs 92 R12 2 pin. Hopefully the pressures will be close enough to the R12 system.

[Subfixer]

Unfortunately, the compressor hose I just received today was built backwards. High and low side swapped just like Tom's.
Still waiting for the accumulator hose.

[Roadster]

That is a big problem with a lot of the vendors....but why it isn't corrected...I don't know.….the one place that had the correct hose set....as I mentioned before....just put it in a box with no packing material and sent it out.....makes you wonder how they stay in business!!!:(

[Roadster]

Hello Subfixer, sent you a PM.....check it out when you can....thank, Tom