Alternator upgrade

[secondchance]

In preparation of Spal fan upgrade I am planning, I decided to upgrade my alternator to 200amp. Powermaster is an option but figured I would try Nippon Denso version customized to work with CS144 cars.
Mike (5abivt) had done this conversion a couple of years ago. His choice was DC Power unit. However, his difficulty in adopting Nippon Denso connector to CS144 was noted and led to my decision to go with Quality Power Alternator since Quality Power Alternator offers conversion harness taking the guess work out and keeping it looking professional.
Additional 8 ga. cable was added between the alternator post to battery to allow for additional current and, while at it, added additional 18 ga. between the battery and HVAC controller resulting in some extra oomph to HVAC fan.
Note Phil's custom spacer that allows slick adoptation to passenger side mounting bracket.
https://oi658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/pic1_zpsrro2oucv.jpg (https://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/pic1_zpsrro2oucv.jpg.html)

All buttoned up. Shame that most of the alternator is hidden behind vent tube, harness and bracket.
https://oi658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/pic2_zpspkbjrlmf.jpg (https://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/pic2_zpspkbjrlmf.jpg.html)

Of course, while at it, a perfect opportunity to replace fuel pressure regulator with Phil's upgraded version.
https://oi658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/pic3_zps8jwwfap8.jpg (https://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/pic3_zps8jwwfap8.jpg.html)

The work was done at WAZOO garage with invaluable help from Jim and moral support from Nelson and Charlie. Thanks guys!!!

[-=Jeff=-]

Do you have more details on part numbers and cost? I would like to upgrade my alternator and was leaning towards this route but could not find and info when I searched

Thanks

[secondchance]

Do you have more details on part numbers and cost? I would like to upgrade my alternator and was leaning towards this route but could not find and info when I searched

Thanks

I think below is the one I ordered.
https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/item_589/GM-Mega-Amp--Wide-Ear-CS-144-Replacement--7.2-Mount.htm

Invoice says 8112-ND-200A, rear post 6S 2.3" pulley and W3030D harness.
Again, passenger side post needs a spacer and thread needs to be bored out for our LT5. Cost was $485 including the harness.

Talk to Kevin. He was very helpful.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Yun, nice mod and I did not think so soon. Thanks for sharing and costing me even more money.....LOL.

Maybe we can convince Phil to sell his custom spacer?

Maybe Kevin will consider a group buy too?


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[secondchance]

Yun, nice mod and I did not think so soon. Thanks for sharing and costing me even more money.....LOL.

Maybe we can convince Phil to sell his custom spacer?

Maybe Kevin will consider a group buy too?


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Talk to Kevin - don't hurt to ask. Right? Custom spacer is nice but stacked washers will work in a pinch.

[-=Jeff=-]

Kevin is the contact @ Quality Power Alternator? I would think the later tech Alternator would work better/last longer

[secondchance]

Kevin is the contact @ Quality Power Alternator? I would think the later tech Alternator would work better/last longer

Kevin is the contact at Quality Power. My understanding is that Nippon Denso units use "hairpin" winding for the stator resulting in more efficiency.
These alternators evidently have high RPM capability. Kevin was recommending 1.6" pulley (if I remember correct) and I went conservative with the largest pulley offered - 2.3". This combo requires 80 inch belt.

[-=Jeff=-]

Kevin is the contact at Quality Power. My understanding is that Nippon Denso units use "hairpin" winding for the stator resulting in more efficiency.
These alternators evidently have high RPM capability. Kevin was recommending 1.6" pulley (if I remember correct) and I went conservative with the largest pulley offered - 2.3". This combo requires 80 inch belt.

So with the Powermaster Marc mentions a 2.6" pulley.. By going with the 2.3" and your comment on the 800" belt, I assume that is shorter than our OEM belt?

How is it working out for you so far ( yeah I know it was just recently done) but I am planning that mod along with the HVAC fan wiring. if I can get a boost out of the fan I will take it



I also did the Regulator update, not needed, but rather get it done before I NEED it done

[secondchance]

So with the Powermaster Marc mentions a 2.6" pulley.. By going with the 2.3" and your comment on the 800" belt, I assume that is shorter than our OEM belt?

How is it working out for you so far ( yeah I know it was just recently done) but I am planning that mod along with the HVAC fan wiring. if I can get a boost out of the fan I will take it



I also did the Regulator update, not needed, but rather get it done before I NEED it done

Going with 2.3" pulley (from OEM 2.6") belt length was reduced from 80.5" to 80".
HVAC fan speed has definitely increased.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Talk to Kevin - don't hurt to ask. Right? Custom spacer is nice but stacked washers will work in a pinch.


I’ll try to get on the right time zone and give him a call. Not into washers and will check with Phil. If nothing else some specs to have Carter make a run. Thanks again!



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[dredgeguy]

When Marc did the alternator upgrade on my car to 200 amp he also did the double wire to the AC blower. Before the mod air flow out my vent was at 10 mph and after it was 14 mph. I like it very much. Just spent 3 hours in Dhaka, Bangladesh traffic with no AC and can't wait to get home next week!

[secondchance]

When Marc did the alternator upgrade on my car to 200 amp he also did the double wire to the AC blower. Before the mod air flow out my vent was at 10 mph and after it was 14 mph. I like it very much. Just spent 3 hours in Dhaka, Bangladesh traffic with no AC and can't wait to get home next week!

Hey Charlie! I added additional 18 ga. wire from the battery to the HVAC controller and fan's performance improved a lot also.

[ghlkal]

Additional 8 ga. cable was added between the alternator post to battery to allow for additional current and, while at it, added additional 18 ga. between the battery and HVAC controller resulting in some extra oomph to HVAC fan.





The additional wiring is a great idea. I'll have to remember that.

[-=Jeff=-]

I called and Yes we can get a group price.. minimum for the group price will be 5..

I will post a thread with details later..

[HAWAIIZR-1]

I called and Yes we can get a group price.. minimum for the group price will be 5..



I will post a thread with details later..



Thanks Jeff!!!


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[secondchance]

Should be able to round up 5 easily.
Tell Kevin I said "hi!".:cheers:

[-=Jeff=-]

what is the benefit of this one vs the CS-144 from Power Master?

[secondchance]

what is the benefit of this one vs the CS-144 from Power Master?

Hairpin alternators are suppose to produce higher amp at idle compared to conventional. Also, suppose to perform better at high temperature such as hot day, underhood condition.
Above are based on what I have read. Not been able to confirm so far.

[-=Jeff=-]

How is this holding up? been thinking about this again.. I noticed it mainly at idle. I have a couple ideas to try.. before dropping money on one of these.. Group buy never panned out.. nobody was interested. I think if I buy one, the stock power is fine, I just want better idle current

[secondchance]

How is this holding up? been thinking about this again.. I noticed it mainly at idle. I have a couple ideas to try.. before dropping money on one of these.. Group buy never panned out.. nobody was interested. I think if I buy one, the stock power is fine, I just want better idle current

It's holding up fine. Last week in DC area was between 96 to 103 degrees. I never found myself in major traffic back up (a disappointment!) but evening commute meant about 15 minutes of bumper to bumper.
With Spal fans running at full speed, maximum coolant temp I saw was 211. Once it hit 211, temp started to come down and around 200-201 would go up to 208 and repeat. With fans running, voltage readout was 14.3 to 14.5 volts. Oil temp was steady at 197 but occasionally would go up to 201 to 202.
Dewitt dual core, 200 amp alternator and Spal fans definitely reeled in coolant temp concern in worst case scenario.
It would be interesting to compare voltage reading of stock 94 Z with OEM fans running vs. my setup, although not apple to apple.

[-=Jeff=-]

Since I revived this thread.. I ended up finishing my rebuild of an Alternator I started 5 years ago.. car was dead, I needed an alt and bought a reman @ the local parts stoe

I bought several parts to upgrade my old one, but every time I tested it, it did not work. Last weekend I went through all the Rectifiers and checked them, I used a stock Rectifier and stock regulator, new brushes, new rotor I bought 5 years ago, along with a 140-150A Stator. Basically all new except Rectifier, Regulator and case. Assembled it and it worked

I just purchased a 200a Capable Rectifier and the correct brush holder. I spoke with a a guy at Quick Start (alternatorparts.com) he said the 124A stock units were more like 105-110A and the CS144 is 60% max at idle. So with the parts I have and the new Rectifier, I should have an improved idle current. Once I get it together I will install it and add a 8ga power wire from the alt to the Junction block and see how it does

[Locobob]

I'm seriously thinking about this, getting pretty sick of my alternator randomly dropping voltage at stop lights and my stereo shutting off. I've already tried rebuilding it but obviously didn't catch all the problems. I like the idea of a 200amp unit, I have some more electronics mods planned and that would give me some extra breathing room.

[Locobob]

Welp I'm going to get me one of these. Can anyone tell be the thickness of the spacer needed? Also why go down to a 2.3in pulley from the stock 2.6? Are you just trying to get a little more oomph at idle over and above the already increased output of the 200amp alternator to run the spal fans?

[secondchance]

Welp I'm going to get me one of these. Can anyone tell be the thickness of the spacer needed? Also why go down to a 2.3in pulley from the stock 2.6? Are you just trying to get a little more oomph at idle over and above the already increased output of the 200amp alternator to run the spal fans?

I can measure the spacer thickness and post it.
Quality power recommended smaller diameter pulley. According to QP, their alternator can handle higher RPM. I went with the largest diameter pulley offered by QP. Of course, higher RPM means more amp at idle.

[secondchance]

Spacer is 1/4” thick.

[Locobob]

Spacer is 1/4” thick.


Thanks, got one on the way. Hopefully I can squeeze it in by pulling just the throttle body, I've already hit my quota for plenum pulls this year lol

[secondchance]

Thanks, got one on the way. Hopefully I can squeeze it in by pulling just the throttle body, I've already hit my quota for plenum pulls this year lol

With 21.3" pulley, you will need 80" belt.

[Locobob]

With 21.3" pulley, you will need 80" belt.


I don't think I can fit a 21.3" pulley under my hood lol
When I talked to Kevin he said the belt difference would be just over a quarter inch, I may be able to use what I have as I erred on the tight side with the belt.

[1LEZ]

I think below is the one I ordered.
https://www.qualitypowerauto.com/item_589/GM-Mega-Amp--Wide-Ear-CS-144-Replacement--7.2-Mount.htm

Invoice says 8112-ND-200A, rear post 6S 2.3" pulley and W3030D harness.
Again, passenger side post needs a spacer and thread needs to be bored out for our LT5. Cost was $485 including the harness.

Talk to Kevin. He was very helpful.

Can you tell if this works for a 1990 car? Thanks for the write up!

[secondchance]

Can you tell if this works for a 1990 car? Thanks for the write up!

As far as I know, yes. No difference in alternator physical dimensions or any mounting points.
Throw in 2 Spal fans and fear of overheating becomes a distant memory.

[-=Jeff=-]

Second chance do you have a post/ write up of the Spal fan install?

[secondchance]

Second chance do you have a post/ write up of the Spal fan install?

Here you go.
https://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30609

[1LEZ]

Did you run the additional 8 gauge wire to the alternator? If so where does the wire terminate? Thanks for the thread! I already got the altenator you recommended

[-=Jeff=-]

Did you run the additional 8 gauge wire to the alternator? If so where does the wire terminate? Thanks for the thread! I already got the altenator you recommended

If you are asking Secondchance, he said he did in his first post

[32valvZ]

Is there any advantage to adding the 8 gauge and 18 gauge for the fan motor without installing a higher amp unit? I have a brand new stock one form Jerrys already installed.... exercise in futility?

[secondchance]

Is there any advantage to adding the 8 gauge and 18 gauge for the fan motor without installing a higher amp unit? I have a brand new stock one form Jerrys already installed.... exercise in futility?

8 ga wire was added between th alternator output to the battery to allow for additional current and 18 ga between the battery to the fan motor. I’m not an electrical engineer and above wiring upgrades were replication of what Marc does when he upped alternator amperage on another WAZOO Z.
Thicker wire alone, may not have much effect.

[-=Jeff=-]

Actually the thicker the wire the LESS resistance but the thicker the wire the more current can get pushed through without burning it up.. Heat is generated by the resistance

[secondchance]

[QUOTE=-=Jeff=-;309294]Actually the thicker the wire the LESS resistance but the thicker the wire the more current can get pushed through without burning it up.. Heat is generated by the resistance[/QUOTE

Without alternator with higher output, what effect would larger ga wire have on fan motor?

[-=Jeff=-]

More power/current flow to the fans. So the fans would benefit of the larger wiring as there will be less power drop at the fan

[secondchance]

More power/current flow to the fans. So the fans would benefit of the larger wiring as there will be less power drop at the fan

There is your answer 32valvZ.

[dredgeguy]

When Marc did this upgrade on mine last year he doubled up on the wire rather than replacing with a larger wire. He said it would not be very easy to rerouting a much thicker wire. Said double wiring would have the same end result with less labor time. If Marc says it will work and you save money then it is fine by me! By adding a 200 amp alternator and double wiring it to the battery and also to the AC blower, end result was the air flow out my vents went from 10 mph to 14 mph. I can tell you that the difference is awesome. Nice and cold in the summer and toasty in the winter. One of the best mods to my car for comfort.

[-=Jeff=-]

Hey Charlie,

Marc had told me the sizes he used on your car. 8Ga from Alt to battery and 14Ga for the AC Blower. I need to do the AC Blower upgrade, but having manual AC it is a bit different wiring set up

[dredgeguy]

Hi Jeff and thanks for the correction. I am not the technical one so glad it was corrected. I will stick to cooking for the boys and letting them keep my car on the road.
Took it out today, nice and warm and now the AC is not blowing cold again....story of my life but will get it sorted out.

[anton28]

Wanted to bring this super helpful thread back from the dead lol as I have a couple of questions after reading through it in regards to increasing wire size. Let me know if I have the following correct:

a. 8 gauge from batter to the alternator
b. 14 gauge to AC/HVAC module
c. 18 gauge between battery and electric fan motor

I was confused about B and C. Is this the same wire that's being discussed per comments below?

"8Ga from Alt to battery and 14Ga for the AC Blower."

"I added additional 18 ga. wire from the battery to the HVAC controller and fan's performance improved a lot also."

[secondchance]

Wanted to bring this super helpful thread back from the dead lol as I have a couple of questions after reading through it in regards to increasing wire size. Let me know if I have the following correct:

a. 8 gauge from batter to the alternator
b. 14 gauge to AC/HVAC module
c. 18 gauge between battery and electric fan motor

I was confused about B and C. Is this the same wire that's being discussed per comments below?

"8Ga from Alt to battery and 14Ga for the AC Blower."

"I added additional 18 ga. wire from the battery to the HVAC controller and fan's performance improved a lot also."

Hi Anton,

I believe B and C are the same.

I had to go back to my original post since it's been awhile.

"Additional 8 ga. cable was added between the alternator post to battery to allow for additional current and, while at it, added additional 18 ga. between the battery and HVAC controller resulting in some extra oomph to HVAC fan."

I added 8 ga between the alternator post to battery and added 18ga from the battery to HVAC controller on top of factory wire for power (I think red wire).

It has been 4 years or so and coolant temp has never been an issue since this conversion. Improved AC performance is a bonus.:cheers:

[anton28]

Hi Anton,

I believe B and C are the same.

I had to go back to my original post since it's been awhile.

"Additional 8 ga. cable was added between the alternator post to battery to allow for additional current and, while at it, added additional 18 ga. between the battery and HVAC controller resulting in some extra oomph to HVAC fan."

I added 8 ga between the alternator post to battery and added 18ga from the battery to HVAC controller on top of factory wire for power (I think red wire).

It has been 4 years or so and coolant temp has never been an issue since this conversion. Improved AC performance is a bonus.:cheers:

Thanks for the reply! I will have my engine out and was going to run new wires vs doubling up. What size wires should I run if I am to run thicker new wires?

[secondchance]

Thanks for the reply! I will have my engine out and was going to run new wires vs doubling up. What size wires should I run if I am to run thicker new wires?

I suggest asking Marc Heibeck at ZR1 specialist.com.

[anton28]

I suggest asking Marc Heibeck at ZR1 specialist.com.

Will do!