Picked up an LT5 and ZF

[Jrpontiac]

I just picked up an lt5 and zf tranny. Got a really really good deal on it but it doesn't have the ECM so I may be SOL with my plan to retrofit it into a 2nd gen Camaro. Haven't done any research on if that conversion is even possible. Deal was so good I couldn't pass it up. Engine supposedly came out of a 90 zr1 with 27k miles. Car was rolled 15+ years ago and engine was pulled.

Any ideas on if ECM's are even available, who might I contact.

Worst case senario I have a cool engine for garage decor.

[TX '90 ZR1]

You are in the right place for LT5 information. A bunch of knowledge amongst the members.
My first thoughts for an ECM would be Marc Haibeck. (ZR1specialist.com). Also, Jerry @ Jerrysgaskets.com.
Sure others will speak up with ideas.
:cheers:

[RussMcB]

I agree with Kenny about who best to contact. The MegaSquirt people have an aftermarket ECU. Do you have the harness/loom? And does the engine have all of the stuff housed under the plenum?

2nd gen Camaro, that would be cool.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Congrats! Nice find and it sounds like a nice project when you acquired all the components.


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[klork]

You could do what I am doing and run megasquirt. It will be much easier to tune the the factory computer as you don't need to mess with chips. Megasquirt can tune the fuel tables its self too with auto tune.

[Jrpontiac]

Thank you for the info. Good to know that there is an aftermarket solution.


Some questions. Engine will not be going in a ZR1.
-Are the electrical connections/ports coming out under the rear of the plenum for the ICM?
- I don't have the engine harness, if I go with the megasquirt system do I need it?
- If I used the megasquirt system do I use the ICM?
- If I need the harness are the 90-95 harnesses the same?


I'm pretty fluent in LS stuff, not some much with this C4 LT5.

[klork]

You do not have to use the icm. I am going to be using LS coils as they have built in ignitors and I have used them successfully with megasquirt before. They are easy to wire up and require just 4 wires per coil. I havnt looked over all of the connectors on the engine yet but most I have seen are standard GM weatherpack connectors so it would be fairly easy to make a harness.

[Jrpontiac]

Found out the flywheel and clutch is not there, kinda bummed about that. Although for $3k I still would have bought.

[-=Jeff=-]

I do know 8 LS coils fit under the plenum
9321


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[rbidwell]

Mega-squirt has developed an ECM for the LT5 and should be available thru Jerry's Gaskets. It is the unit on my Raptor twin turbo.

[Jrpontiac]

Thanks for all the info. I'll give Jerry a call. I'm just going to round up the ECM and flywheel/clutch parts and then start looking for a car. As mentioned a 2nd gen Camaro is what I'm thinking now but who knows what I'll bump into??. My fun cars are a 77 c10 with a 5.3ls turbo/th400 combo and a 17 SS Camaro Convert so I might go with something off the wall. I've always had a soft spot for Volvo 242's...

[tnova]

I'm in Spokane Valley. We should get together. I've a '91 ZR-1. There's a gent up the street from me that has several ZR-1s as well as a C2 split window with a LT5 and a '55 or '57 (can't remember what year) with LT5 in it. My number is (619) 520-8081.
Tony - Tnova

[klork]

Join the volvo club! Mine is going in my 1990 740 wagon.

[spork2367]

Mega-squirt has developed an ECM for the LT5 and should be available thru Jerry's Gaskets. It is the unit on my Raptor twin turbo.

Unless Jerry has some deal he's kept secret, the ECU needs to be ordered directly from DIYAutotune. It is a made to order item, not listed on their website. It will run about 2400 unless you can get a group of people to buy. Mine took about 3 months to get.

Some info on it...mine wasn't really plug and play. It started and ran the engine, although extremely poorly. Not driveable. I got this just to learn on, so I still had the factory ECU. I haven't messed with it a whole lot, but people do need to understand, you will either need tuning knowledge yourself, or to take it to someone who does.

[rbidwell]

I purchased my Mega-squirt system thru Ron Hanselman. Corey Henderson installed it on my car. Jerry's Gaskets maybe waiting to make there are no bugs before adding it to their inventory.

[spork2367]

I purchased my Mega-squirt system thru Ron Hanselman. Corey Henderson installed it on my car. Jerry's Gaskets maybe waiting to make there are no bugs before adding it to their inventory.

Maybe Jerry can chime in, but I've heard nothing of him selling these.

Just to be clear, DIYAutotune is the only place building these and they can only currently be ordered from them. I mean, you can order one through me for a 20% markup if you'd like...;)

As far as "making sure there are no bugs," this has been running on one car for an extended period of time. DIYAutotune doesn't sell prototype ECUs, so the bugs have already been worked out. There is a base tune available with the ECU, but this is NOT a "plug and play" replacement at this point.

As of the last conversation with DIYAutotune, the project was sitting idle.
There were still features with the trip computer that weren't resolved. They had hoped to work on it in the future and had some additional info based on some other projects cracking Ford dash serial bus communications, but I don't think the demand was there to put a lot more effort into ours.

[RussMcB]

...mine wasn't really plug and play. It started and ran the engine, although extremely poorly. Not driveable.That's interesting. I would have thought it would have been pretty close right out of the box.

I'm local to them, so lent my car to them for a couple of months (back in 2016?). They ran a bunch of pulls, fine tuning it with the goal of having an ECM to sell to LT-5 owners. I got the car back from them with the MS3-Pro ECM installed and I haven't touched it since. It runs great. My engine is stock (including secondaries) with headers.

[spork2367]

That's interesting. I would have thought it would have been pretty close right out of the box.

I'm local to them, so lent my car to them for a couple of months (back in 2016?). They ran a bunch of pulls, fine tuning it with the goal of having an ECM to sell to LT-5 owners. I got the car back from them with the MS3-Pro ECM installed and I haven't touched it since. It runs great. My engine is stock (including secondaries) with headers.

I've contacted them several times and not received a lot of help. Even after sending them a log. Car (parts car) runs fine with factory ECU, runs like **** with megasquirt. It could be a car issue, but they couldn't tell me anything other than that the MAP was disconnected initially (hose pulled off), but it didn't run much better after that.

I'd love to test it on my 1990, but there is supposedly an internal wiring difference between the 1990 and 91+ that they also couldn't really give me details on.

[-=Jeff=-]

1990 has a couple things different..

Power key circuit and wire location on the ECM as well as the Knock sensor control. 1990 is external, 1991 is internal..

Concerning if the ECM Manufacturer cannot tell you about that or even have it listed in their own notes

[klork]

Al lot of these issues really dont pertain to the op since all he has is the engine and trans. He can get the latest pro series megasquirt with a wiring harness for around 1400. For the over 2k for the plug n play zr1 computer he could get a holley dominator computer

[spork2367]

Al lot of these issues really dont pertain to the op since all he has is the engine and trans. He can get the latest pro series megasquirt with a wiring harness for around 1400. For the over 2k for the plug n play zr1 computer he could get a holley dominator computer

This is not completely correct, or at the very least misleading.

No, he can't get an ECU capable of supporting the LT5 with a wiring harness for 1400 that can support the engine with stock sensors.

He may be able to get the generic unit and a generic wiring harness for 1400, but the cost to put that on his engine will far exceed 1400. It would also require him to be a wiring pro and have extensive experience setting up and programming ECUs. Same applies to the Holley unit. He isn't going to get something plug and play for 2k.

OP's cheapest easiest route is to buy one of the many OEM NOS harnesses that is for sale if he doesn't have an engine harness. Then either buy a stock ECU or megasquirt. He will then have to find someone to build him a standalone dash harness if he isn't capable of building one.

No matter how he approaches this, he's easily looking at 5k to integrate this engine into another car.

[-=Jeff=-]

Biggest thing to keep in mind is most aftermarket systems will not support the OEM crank sensor, so you will need to add that into the mix as well

[klork]

I didn't say it would be plug and play. Yes you would have to finish the wiring harness and yes the computer would have to be tuned but that is the case for any aftermarket computer. I am not sure what the guy is comfortable with doing and am just trying to give him options.

[rbidwell]

I purchased my Mega-squirt ECM thru Ron Hanselman in June of 2014 that was designed as a plug and play system. When Corey Henderson of Henderson Performance of New Braunfels,TX received the item he told me he had to put on connectors . To the best of my knowledge there has been no issues with this unit. Ron Hanselman has recently informed me he has no longer any involvement with Mega-squirt. I have not seen or have had any personal experience with the product.

[Bob Eyres]

I love my LT5, but Considering the power to weight ratio, and the expense of integrating it to other cars, and the expense of modding it to modern levels of horsepower. It doesn’t seem like a great choice for an engine swap, no. Matter how cheap you buy it.
For a street rod with an exposed engine, and no real demands for mega power, sure. For a vintage Corvette, I’ve seen a few, very cool.
But otherwise, an LS kind of blows it away, doesn’t it?


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[spork2367]

I didn't say it would be plug and play. Yes you would have to finish the wiring harness and yes the computer would have to be tuned but that is the case for any aftermarket computer. I am not sure what the guy is comfortable with doing and am just trying to give him options.

This is a HUGE understatement.

To put this into perspective for the OP...There are less than 20 of these engines running in cars that they didn't originally come in. Of those, less than 5 use aftermarket ECUs.

This isn't a matter of "tuning." The ECU has to be programmed to receive and understand every input from the engine. So if he doesn't have an understanding of the signal coming from every sensor needed to run this engine, then this won't happen. It's not likes it's as simple as using autotune for ignition and fuel maps then tweaking them a little on a dyno.

The development work that went into the Megasquirt ECU to make it run the LT5 was significant, and not something the average gear head is going to do.

This is coming from someone who has a megasquirt, several engines, a stand alone harness, and 3/4's of an electrical engineering degree (before switching to manufacturing).

The question for the OP ends up being: Do you want a running driving car, or do you want an ongoing electrical engineering project. Some people love the project, some people love the end result.

I love my LT5, but Considering the power to weight ratio, and the expense of integrating it to other cars, and the expense of modding it to modern levels of horsepower. It doesn’t seem like a great choice for an engine swap, no. Matter how cheap you buy it.
For a street rod with an exposed engine, and no real demands for mega power, sure. For a vintage Corvette, I’ve seen a few, very cool.
But otherwise, an LS kind of blows it away, doesn’t it?


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Pretty much.

[klork]

Maybe I am missing something here but what makes the LT-5 so much more complicated then all the other twin cam coil pack engines out there? Megasquirt natively reads GM sensors so unless the LT-5 uses no standard GM sensors that part is easy. If not just buy the required sensors and away you go. They are pretty cheap. If you needed an electrical engineering degree to wire one up there wouldn't be thousands of cars out there running it.

[tpepmeie]

Not to get too far off-topic... But one of the biggest obstacles in adapting any old aftermarket ECU is finding one which supports enough outputs. Between 16x fuel injectors, minimum 4 ignition (for waste spark), and a half dozen or so lo-side drives, it's a beast to control all of this. Sure, you can always compromise and run the injectors in parallel, or reduce some output devices. But now you're talking about a significant difference from OE.

The crankshaft trigger pattern is another challenge. Most basic aftermarket controllers can't cope with an 8+1 extra tooth pattern. Again, you could try to fit a generic 36-1, or 60-2 trigger wheel, but that's starting to get custom fast.

And then there's the dash compatibility, and Serial Data stream, if you want to use this in a C4 chassis. Sounds like that's where DIY Autotune is still struggling.

[spork2367]

Maybe I am missing something here but what makes the LT-5 so much more complicated then all the other twin cam coil pack engines out there? Megasquirt natively reads GM sensors so unless the LT-5 uses no standard GM sensors that part is easy. If not just buy the required sensors and away you go. They are pretty cheap. If you needed an electrical engineering degree to wire one up there wouldn't be thousands of cars out there running it.

I think you're just oversimplifying the work needed to get an ECU to run a complex modern engine. The LS has been done many times over. There are not thousands of LT5s out there running Megaquirts, nor is there a wealth of information on aftermarket ECUs for them. The plug and play Megasquirt ECU was developed by a company that only does that...with a running driving car for testing. Do you believe that you or the OP can do what DIYAutotune did accurately, cleanly and without a test car and have your time and materials add up to less than 1000 dollars? (the difference between the basic Megaquirt 1400.00 and the plug and play LT5 Megasquirt 2400.00)

I have done a lot of research on this. His cheapest route is:

NOS engine harness (pic makes it look like it's missing): 1300.00
Megasquirt ECU for LT5: 2400.00
Custom stand alone dash harness (ignition, gauges, OBD, check engine light, etc. some ancillary electronic modules needed for LT5) (or custom harness integrated into swap vehicles dash harness: 1800.00+

That's 5500.00 plus whatever he paid for the engine and trans for approximately 400 HP. That doesn't include troubleshooting or dyno testing/tuning.

Even if he got this motor and trans for free, that 5500 he still needs to spend alone would get an LS with a transmission and pay for a cam swap that would net him 450+ hp and replacement parts from any local auto parts store.

Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome engine. I have several. But it's not an easy or cost effective swap at all.

And then there's the dash compatibility, and Serial Data stream, if you want to use this in a C4 chassis. Sounds like that's where DIY Autotune is still struggling.

Supposedly they cracked a Ford dash that gave them some more insight into this, but I'm sure the LT5 is on the back burner...on a stove in another room....of an adjacent building.