1992 ZR1 Bloomington Gold Top Flight at Mecum Question ???

[Kevszr1]

Anyone know anything about the 1992 ZR1 that couldn’t get past $20,000 today at Mecum Auction and it was “Bloomington Gold certified and NCRS Top Flight. I guess I’m skeptical but I’d figure a Z with those “credentials” would go for much more........ unless there was something not right.

Wow.....Anyone have any info???

[Vette73]

It probably has nothing wrong with it...Don't think Mecum could possibly get away with hiding something, just would not be worth it to them...

Just not that much interest in the ZR-1 or maybe wrong day to put it up on the block..

I'm sure its a solid car but like anything else if the crowd does not want it, its not going to bring the money...."Oh wait lets spend over 30 grand on a mass produced Trans Am".......Actually a 79 Trans Am was my first car at 18 years old....29,000 miles, picked it up for $5,200 dollars in 1981, Yellow with T-tops..

[KILLSHOTS]

ZR-1s just don't bring a lot of money, unfortunately. Good for those who want one, but bad for those who want to sell one. Heading out there today, will be sure to get a good look at this car. I'm a sucker for yellow Vettes...all out of garage space, so hopefully it won't come home with me!

[Mystic ZR-1]

What’s Bloomington Gold Top Flight?
Sounds like they got Bloomington Gold and NCRS confused?
Or maybe I’m confused, as usual or car has both?
Can’t read the attachment picture clearly on my phone...

[BigJohn]

Bloomington Gold Certification

[Kevszr1]

ZR-1s just don't bring a lot of money, unfortunately. Good for those who want one, but bad for those who want to sell one. Heading out there today, will be sure to get a good look at this car. I'm a sucker for yellow Vettes...all out of garage space, so hopefully it won't come home with me!

Ok, please take a few pics and let us know about that car. I really think there some strings attached.... so to speak. On Thursday a Blue / white sold for $44,000 so there is $$ there. That car is 1 of 2 in color combination.

[Kevszr1]

What’s Bloomington Gold Top Flight?
Sounds like they got Bloomington Gold and NCRS confused?
Or maybe I’m confused, as usual or car has both?
Can’t read the attachment picture clearly on my phone...

Bloomington Gold
NCRS Top Flight
And says “1st place at 2018 Autorama”

All that credibility and it can’t get over $20K.... I think there’s something possibly wrong with that car or owner “error”. Mecum is not responsible for any sellers claims. Just a very strange combination of things and it’s not adding up.

[KILLSHOTS]

Ok, please take a few pics and let us know about that car. I really think there some strings attached.... so to speak. On Thursday a Blue / white sold for $44,000 so there is $$ there. That car is 1 of 2 in color combination.

Sorry, didn't take pics, but I did get a good look at it, although it was just out in the lot and it was closed. It was kind of blah, dirty, not detailed. The mileage wasn't noted but based on the condition of the interior, it is not a low mileage example. It looked like a $20K car to me...the only thing special about it was the color, in my opinion.

[Kevszr1]

Sorry, didn't take pics, but I did get a good look at it, although it was just out in the lot and it was closed. It was kind of blah, dirty, not detailed. The mileage wasn't noted but based on the condition of the interior, it is not a low mileage example. It looked like a $20K car to me...the only thing special about it was the color, in my opinion.

Thank you very much for the eyes on description and for posting. So I’d say it’s probably a fair deal at $20K. Thank you again KILLSHOTS

[RussMcB]

Sad to think of a desirable color, and once car show quality car, would get so little attention before presenting it for a large auction.

[Blue Flame Restorations]

There has to be two "real" bidders that want it.

[PhillipsLT5]

Killshots asked me to go, but I just had to drive my car & enjoy it, & good guys also in town, but I did watch SAT PM @ Primetime and it seemed to me, my opinions, no energy in room, cars looked like they should be middle of the week not SAT Primetime cars, sellers reserve to high, no $ in the room, lots of empty seats, lots of no sales/bid goes on, this was there 1st Phoenix auction, I really like there business model, much different from JAN auctions in Scottsdale/Phoenix area, maybe better next time, March is a great month, lots of tourism

[RussMcB]

<snip> ... I really like there business model, much different from JAN auctions in Scottsdale/Phoenix areaWhat's the change? You've piqued my interest. Thanks.

[PhillipsLT5]

The Jan auctions have a buyer & seller % that each pay, standard operating procedure, Mecum does also but the dealmaker Dana Mecum is willing to throw away the seller fee %, make a deal right in front of the camera with seller and strike a $ deal, not percentage, with seller to get seller to drop reserve and sell cars, he is operating on volume, like McDonalds burgers, win/win/win for buyer, seller & Mecum, he holds at least 15 auctions a year, keep in mind, all of these auctions are simply in 1 way or another just used car salesmen, but some good deals to be had for buyers and risky for seller if no reserve, I have seen sellers turn into to buyers at Barrett Jackson, to buy there car back, just so they dont get ripped off, now they pay both fees, buyer & seller

[Kevszr1]

[QUOTE=PhillipsLT5;290987]I have seen sellers turn into to buyers at Barrett Jackson, to buy there car back, just so they dont get ripped off, now they pay both fees, buyer & seller

I wouldn’t get caught being any part of a “shill bid” at any auction. And you say Barrett Jackson allows this?

[Kevszr1]

The Jan auctions have a buyer & seller % that each pay, standard operating procedure, Mecum does also but the dealmaker Dana Mecum is willing to throw away the seller fee %, make a deal right in front of the camera with seller and strike a $ deal, not percentage, with seller to get seller to drop reserve and sell cars, he is operating on volume, like McDonalds burgers, win/win/win for buyer, seller & Mecum, he holds at least 15 auctions a year, keep in mind, all of these auctions are simply in 1 way or another just used car salesmen, but some good deals to be had for buyers and risky for seller if no reserve, I have seen sellers turn into to buyers at Barrett Jackson, to buy there car back, just so they dont get ripped off, now they pay both fees, buyer & seller

I do believe you but I guess it’s just so damm shady low-life to do that, that I wouldn’t expect it at any of the big auction houses.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

[QUOTE=PhillipsLT5;290987]I have seen sellers turn into to buyers at Barrett Jackson, to buy there car back, just so they dont get ripped off, now they pay both fees, buyer & seller

I wouldn’t get caught being any part of a “shill bid” at any auction. And you say Barrett Jackson allows this?



Not really a "shill" bid.
Shill bids are when a non-real buyer ( usually in collusion with the seller) bids up a car to get other bidders to go higher, hopefully.


What was described above is a seller who took the risk of selling with no reserve, only to discover ( during the auction) that his car may sell for less than half of what it is truly worth based on slow or sluggish bidding and or not enough room interest.
Rather than lose his lets say $100,000 car for $50,000.00, he steps in and "buys" his own car back to avoid the low yield sale.
He would then owe the auction house all of their fees both on the buy and sell side.
The total fee cost however is less than what he would have " lost" if the car sold for the low bid.


Selling without a reserve is a very risky business.
It makes day trading look ultra conservative.
If you have the most desirable car in the world then the risk is minimal.
If you don't, then anything can and usually will happen, and not all of the possibilities are good ones.
Seller beware!
Marty

[PhillipsLT5]

Thank you Marty

[Kevszr1]

[QUOTE=Kevszr1;290992]



Not really a "shill" bid.
Shill bids are when a non-real buyer ( usually in collusion with the seller) bids up a car to get other bidders to go higher, hopefully.


What was described above is a seller who took the risk of selling with no reserve, only to discover ( during the auction) that his car may sell for less than half of what it is truly worth based on slow or sluggish bidding and or not enough room interest.
Rather than lose his lets say $100,000 car for $50,000.00, he steps in and "buys" his own car back to avoid the low yield sale.
He would then owe the auction house all of their fees both on the buy and sell side.
The total fee cost however is less than what he would have " lost" if the car sold for the low bid.


Selling without a reserve is a very risky business.
It makes day trading look ultra conservative.
If you have the most desirable car in the world then the risk is minimal.
If you don't, then anything can and usually will happen, and not all of the possibilities are good ones.
Seller beware!
Marty


Either way it’s a shill because it’s artificially inflating the bid and someone can bid on top of you. Again, I wouldn’t get caught doing it at any auction house. ..... it’s not allowed. That’s my only point

[spork2367]

[QUOTE=DRM500RUBYZR-1;291004]


Either way it’s a shill because it’s artificially inflating the bid and someone can bid on top of you. Again, I wouldn’t get caught doing it at any auction house. ..... it’s not allowed. That’s my only point

No, it's not a shill bid. Re-read Marty's post. The auction house doesn't give a crap if a buyer or seller is getting a good deal, they are only concerned about their cut. In this case, they get their cut. In fact, their cut is higher because if the seller had let it go, it would have sold for a lower number and their cut would have been less. The seller bids it up, wins, then pays a higher percentage based on the higher selling price.

If the other bidder chooses to continue bidding, they are not being forced to do so.

They absolutely allow this, although I'm sure it isn't encouraged.

A shill bid is artificially inflating the price by having a non-buyer bid. A seller can't be a shill bidder and artificially raise the price against himself as a buyer...The seller is actually going to buy the car (which is just paying the auction house fees). They are intending to buy the car should it go for less than xxx. They are a legitimate bidder. A shill bidder has no intent to buy the car.

Shill bidding can't really happen easily at a live auction where bid retractions are more difficult and verified in person vs. an online auction where a bid retraction can be automated. i.e. you just select a reason from a drop down menu.

[Kevszr1]

[QUOTE=Kevszr1;291018]

No, it's not a shill bid. Re-read Marty's post. The auction house doesn't give a crap if a buyer or seller is getting a good deal, they are only concerned about their cut. In this case, they get their cut. In fact, their cut is higher because if the seller had let it go, it would have sold for a lower number and their cut would have been less. The seller bids it up, wins, then pays a higher percentage based on the higher selling price.

If the other bidder chooses to continue bidding, they are not being forced to do so.

They absolutely allow this, although I'm sure it isn't encouraged.

A shill bid is artificially inflating the price by having a non-buyer bid. A seller can't be a shill bidder and artificially raise the price against himself as a buyer...The seller is actually going to buy the car (which is just paying the auction house fees). They are intending to buy the car should it go for less than xxx. They are a legitimate bidder. A shill bidder has no intent to buy the car.

Shill bidding can't really happen easily at a live auction where bid retractions are more difficult and verified in person vs. an online auction where a bid retraction can be automated. i.e. you just select a reason from a drop down menu.

Again.. It is a shill bid no matter how you spin it and the auction house will pitch you to the curb if you get caught. They absolutely don’t allow it but go take your chances if ya want.

But, I suppose if you don’t put a reserve on a car and you’re stupid enough to buy it yourself and pay 20% in commission alone rather than only 10% WITH a reserve sale, then you deserve to buy your own car. Go right ahead with your shill bid.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

[QUOTE=spork2367;291026]

Again.. It is a shill bid no matter how you spin it and the auction house will pitch you to the curb if you get caught. They absolutely don’t allow it but go take your chances if ya want.

But, I suppose if you don’t put a reserve on a car and you’re stupid enough to buy it yourself and pay 20% in commission alone rather than only 10% WITH a reserve sale, then you deserve to buy your own car. Go right ahead with your shill bid.



Puzzled by your statement.
No "spin" here.
I know of two owners who "bought" their car back at reputable auctions.
Their bidder pass clearly identified them to all, and the house certainly had to know it was the owner paying both sides of the fee and taking the car back. The house earned their fees.
Each of these were "no reserve auctions", which I have stated I am certainly not a fan of such things.


The check was cashed.
The car released.
No one was tossed to the curb.


Agreed, not a bright thing to do, but many are convinced that their prize will pull strong money at a no reserve auction.
Someone (s) telling them that.
Perhaps the auction house or friendly experts.
But as the bids slow to a crawl, then at a low stop and desperation sets in, paying 18% or so and having another opportunity, must seem like the best alternative.


Not recommending it, not suggesting it, don't think it is a good idea.
However; It happens.


The intent of "Shill Bidding" is to drive up the price.
Shill bidding to drive up a price, certainly appears a fraudulent activity, and as such is likely against some law.


Paying 18% to essentially end the auction and retain the item, as opposed to furthering the price has a decidedly different purpose.


I would certainly suggest checking with the auction house directly and beforehand to confirm their policy on such, which also should confirm if it violates any federal, state or local law.
Marty

[spork2367]

[QUOTE=spork2367;291026]

Again.. It is a shill bid no matter how you spin it and the auction house will pitch you to the curb if you get caught. They absolutely don’t allow it but go take your chances if ya want.

But, I suppose if you don’t put a reserve on a car and you’re stupid enough to buy it yourself and pay 20% in commission alone rather than only 10% WITH a reserve sale, then you deserve to buy your own car. Go right ahead with your shill bid.

We aren't talking about ebay or an online auction here. Like Marty said, I'm sure there are auction houses that may not allow this. But many do. No one is going to go in planning on buying there own car, but if they misjudged the audience it is a better prospect than losing your a**.

If I'm the owner of the car, the price stalls, and I don't want it to go for a fraction of what it's worth, I'm not bidding to artificially inflate the price, I'm bidding to buy it so I only lose 20% instead of 40%. Some states have laws about shill bidding, but to prove that the intent was to artificially inflate the price vs. the intent of buying it to avoid a loss would be nearly impossible to prove.

The auction house isn't going to care because they are getting their cut no matter what. By definition, the owner can't be a "shill" because the auction house has already vetted them and know that he is the owner. This isn't like an online auction where anonymity could be used to more easily hide the identity of a bidder.

In short, it may not be allowed at every auction...but it isn't shill bidding by definition.

[Kevszr1]

[QUOTE=Kevszr1;291033]

We aren't talking about ebay or an online auction here. Like Marty said, I'm sure there are auction houses that may not allow this. But many do. No one is going to go in planning on buying there own car, but if they misjudged the audience it is a better prospect than losing your a**.

If I'm the owner of the car, the price stalls, and I don't want it to go for a fraction of what it's worth, I'm not bidding to artificially inflate the price, I'm bidding to buy it so I only lose 20% instead of 40%. Some states have laws about shill bidding, but to prove that the intent was to artificially inflate the price vs. the intent of buying it to avoid a loss would be nearly impossible to prove.

The auction house isn't going to care because they are getting their cut no matter what. By definition, the owner can't be a "shill" because the auction house has already vetted them and know that he is the owner. This isn't like an online auction where anonymity could be used to more easily hide the identity of a bidder.

In short, it may not be allowed at every auction...but it isn't shill bidding by definition.


Clearly I’m not talking about eBay or any other online auction site and I don’t know where you got that idea. As I wrote prior, I’m talking about the big auction houses. Ie..Barrett Jackson or Mecum for example. Raise your own bid and you’re a fraud....a cheat and these auctions have been sued in the past for this and I can tell you it is NOT tolerated in any way. You can type till your fingers are numb and nothing will change. Go ahead and believe what you want. I’ve sold at auctions and I can tell you I wouldn’t get caught dead bidding on my own car under any circumstance because it not allowed and you will get caught. But go right ahead..... you’ll be tossed. And I don’t care if you say “my friend did it”. That’s BS ok! At BJ you’ll also immediately forfeit your $9000 bidder hold among other leagal perils and punitive measures. These places will not tollerate a cheap *** looser cheater putting a stain on their business because they dont need to. And those are the facts my friend.

[DRM500RUBYZR-1]

[QUOTE=spork2367;291111]


Clearly I’m not talking about eBay or any other online auction site and I don’t know where you got that idea. As I wrote prior, I’m talking about the big auction houses. Ie..Barrett Jackson or Mecum for example. Raise your own bid and you’re a fraud....a cheat and these auctions have been sued in the past for this and I can tell you it is NOT tolerated in any way. You can type till your fingers are numb and nothing will change. Go ahead and believe what you want. I’ve sold at auctions and I can tell you I wouldn’t get caught dead bidding on my own car under any circumstance because it not allowed and you will get caught. But go right ahead..... you’ll be tossed. And I don’t care if you say “my friend did it”. That’s BS ok! At BJ you’ll also immediately forfeit your $9000 bidder hold among other leagal perils and punitive measures. These places will not tollerate a cheap *** looser cheater putting a stain on their business because they dont need to. And those are the facts my friend.



Don't sugarcoat it now, tell us how you really feel!


You are also most welcome to believe what you want.


Just another silly path we seem to be going down, as none of us would care to do it anyway, so it matters not.


You may calm down now, you declared yourself the winner, so you win!


Marty

[Blue Flame Restorations]

Enough of this already.

[KILLSHOTS]

Here's the car now. On eBay at some dealer in Colorado. They don't understand the real-world value and it's way overpriced...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-Chevrolet-Corvette-ZR1/293023012827?hash=item44398857db:g:Y7YAAOSwW3xcmm8 0

[Regimof3]

It's funny


I'm seeing a lot of Z's that are upper 20's that in the last few years were low 20's...maybe even teens. Not saying it's a good or bad price, just that there seems to a bit of an upswing.

[spork2367]

It's funny


I'm seeing a lot of Z's that are upper 20's that in the last few years were low 20's...maybe even teens. Not saying it's a good or bad price, just that there seems to a bit of an upswing.

Not sure where you're seeing that. 5-6 years ago they were very low. They are higher than that now, but lower than they were a year or two ago.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1991-chevrolet-corvette-24/

[Regimof3]

I have no links as I spend a lot of my free time just looking at different city's Craigslist zr1s and I may be entirely wrong and misremembering. I do recall a 90 and a 92 with 20ish k miles being asked for in the high 20s. Pretty sure I saw one in Chicago too that was in the low 30's.

I realize that this is purely anecdotal and the market as a whole could be down. I just think I'm seeing more with higher asking prices.