SUPERCHARGING AND TWIN TURBO THE LT-5

[WB9MCW]

WE ALWAYS GET THIS SAME ? FROM THOSE WHO WANT MORE SO HERE IS A COMPILATION OF THE VARIOUS COMMENTS AND ?'S ON IT!

http://zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3016

BETTER OFF TO SC (CENTRIF TYPE NO HOOD NEEDED AND COMPRESSION IS NOT A PROBLEM IF YOU KEEP THE BOOST LOW @ <5 PSI) AN LS1 C5 VETTE IS WHAT MOST END UP DOING.

HERE IS AN EXAMPLE OF ONE>> http://zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3031

NOW U CAN TURBO AN LT-5 BUT AGAIN BIG $$$

HERE IS A DISCUSSION OF IT>> http://zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=163&highlight=TWIN+TURBO

http://www.speedshopthagard.com/projects/TTZR1/index.html


AND A FEW MORE>>>

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Street/8943/

http://www.corvettemagazine.com/2001/december/turnerking/king1.asp

http://zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1850&highlight=TWIN+TURBO

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/


THIS SHOULD FILL YOU NEED TO KNOW!!! ENJOY

AND WHAT DO YA KNOW ---MY 1,500TH POST HOW APPROPRIATE!!!

[A26B]

WE ALWAYS GET THIS SAME ? FROM THOSE WHO WANT MORE SO HERE IS A COMPILATION OF THE VARIOUS COMMENTS AND ?'S ON IT!

BETTER OFF TO SC (CENTRIF TYPE NO HOOD NEEDED AND COMPRESSION IS NOT A PROBLEM IF YOU KEEP THE BOOST LOW @ <5 PSI) AN LS1 C5 VETTE IS WHAT MOST END UP DOING.

Boost is boost regardless of where it comes from, turbo or supercharging. Depending on the engine design, especially head bolt configuration, you may be able to safely run up to 8 psi without internal modification. Unfortunately, the LT5 is not one of those, primarily due to only 4 head bolts per cyl design as compared to other closed deck Chevy engines with 5 bolts/cyl. 5psi boost is about all you can safely run on an LT5.

There are no free rides, but some are cheaper than others.

Supecharging is a parisitic drag on crank horsepower. The power to turn the blower/supercharger/puffer comes directly from the crank. For descriptive and ease of demo purposes only, assume an engine has 400 crank Hp, in normally aspirated configuration. Install a supercharger which requires 50Hp to operate @ 6 psi boost, yielding a Hp increase of 50%, expressed as follows;(400Hp-50Hp)*150% = 525Hp

A turbo derives its power from exhaust gasses. Turbos do not create drag but do reduce engine horsepower in a much reduced way by inducing back pressure on the exhaust, thereby lessening cylinder evacuation efficiency. Once again, numbers are for demo purposes only, but are somewhat relative to supercharging. Install a turbocharger which reduces engine efficiency by 5% (20Hp), operating @ 6 psi boost, yielding a Hp increase of 50% (boost is boost) expressed as follows; (400Hp-20Hp)*150% = 570Hp.

If turbos are better, as in more efficient, why do more folks go with superchargers. Answer, until now, is less cost & simpler installation.

UNTIL NOW: Ron Hanselman & I have formed a new company called Raptor, LLC for the express purpose of developing rear-mounted turbo systems for the C-4 Corvettes, LT5, LT4, LT-1 & L98. Only the Lt5 will be a twin turbo configuration. The others will be single turbo design.

Rear mount systems are much less expensive and much less difficult to install. Our system will be sold in kit form, with everything you need to install it, much like a cat-back exhaust system. There will be optional components. We have a 90 ZR-1 and a 95 LT-1 nearing completion now and our plans are to have them both at Bowling Green for the Gathering.

You may have seen STS Turbos (Squires Turbo Systems) shows on the SPEED channel about the C5 systems. Raptor has an exclusive agreement with them and will be featured on STS's website once our systems are ready for sale.


NOW U CAN TURBO AN LT-5 BUT AGAIN BIG $$$

NOT BIG $$$$ ANY MORE! See above.

[GrayZ]

i'm confused the link..takes us to a car that is listed as blown?
or were you referring to the model?? :mrgreen:
i'm super excited about twin turbo kit. =D>

[A26B]

My Bad!! I left the likns in that Bryan had in his original post, separated the quotes without adding new "quote" syntax. Fixed now....sorry for the confusion.

[Peaven]

Thanks for the update Jerry, I think many of us have been watching for you and Ron's progress on this project...excellent stuff!:thumbsup:

[WB9MCW]

Great news indeed Jerry. Glad we brought the subject up and you made the announcement and the comparison of SC vs Turbo- in the LT-5 case TT.

We look fwd to the future reports. Will the TT work for stock motors at low psi? How much more HP when PnP intake- now add PnP Heads? how abt a stroker like your 415 or 385 with P an P and exhaust mod's. What do you see as the line up hp from a TT from stock to wild and what boost at what mod levels do you envision with your new rear TT design?

It is ironic you bring all this up when I made a comment about your own ZR-1 LPE and a second TT ZR-1 (Paul D's TT) article and Ron piped in abt the correct scoop on your SGC 415 etc--in a way it is like I knew you were planning a TT ---or thinking of it presuming that you do your 415 SGC engine up with a TT kit? -- to wierd-- http://www.zr1netregistry.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10029#post10029

If u need a free website (for your new TT venture) MS live essentials office websites are free! I have made two for my biz this last year. Easy to set up and operate even the online store I believe- all free. Check it out-- http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/officelive/FX101465131033.aspx

my sites: www.apogeeindustriesinc.com and www.wadsworthsales.com

[A26B]

We look fwd to the future reports. Will the TT work for stock motors at low psi?
Yes. The LT5 should handle 5 psi boost without issues. Over that and the risk of a blown head gasket is probable.

How much more HP when PnP intake- now add PnP Heads? how abt a stroker like your 415 or 385 with P an P and exhaust mod's. What do you see as the line up hp from a TT from stock to wild and what boost at what mod levels do you envision with your new rear TT design?
Boost capability of rear turbos is the same as front mounted turbos, typically from 5 psi to 18 psi. Engine mods are only limited by $'s and imagination. We do not intend to personally explore all the possibilities as they are obviously many. We'll leave that up to each individual's desires. Horsepower would probably range from 500 rwhp for the low boost, stock engine to 1,000 rwhp for a real monster.

Thanks for your interest!!

[WB9MCW]

Well Ron might be able to post results of various combo's on the forum or on the main site in that existing chart of mod's and times--- all though that is rather old data charts etc. Maybe a new updated on is in order.

Will be exciting to see the results of this I know many who have talked of desire for this type of TT kit. Bravo

[A26B]

It is ironic you bring all this up when I made a comment about your own ZR-1 LPE and a second TT ZR-1 (Paul D's TT) article and Ron piped in abt the correct scoop on your SGC 415 etc--in a way it is like I knew you were planning a TT ---or thinking of it presuming that you do your 415 SGC engine up with a TT kit? -- to wierd--

Actually, Z Factor PM'd me regarding the addition of another parted out ZR-1 and the whereabouts of Mark Horner. In that PM, he sent the link for the thread you started about my ZR-1 and asked if it was mine. Glad he did, I need to be here more. Thanks for your kind words about my ZR-1.

[WB9MCW]

No problem Jerry---We like to point out the "special" ZR-1 owners that promote the KOTH and then some here on the forum!!!

[Enthusiast]

Also dont forget the efficiency of turbochargers versus supercharger. Mos turbochargers can see up to 80% efficiency while superchargers have always been lower with the roots blower the lowest (around 40%)

There is a new type of bearing superchareger (rotrex maybe) instead of gears and it has seen efficiency of up to 80% and higher.

Just thought Id throw that in.

Im am very interxted in yalls progress as I am about to buy a ZR1 and owuld like to run extremely low boost ~3.5 to 4 psi until I get some low comp pistons and then maybe crank it up to around 8. Im still kinda new to these motors though so that plan may change.

What time do you guys plan on having these on sale

[A26B]

Also dont forget the efficiency of turbochargers versus supercharger. Mos turbochargers can see up to 80% efficiency while superchargers have always been lower with the roots blower the lowest (around 40%)

There is a new type of bearing superchareger (rotrex maybe) instead of gears and it has seen efficiency of up to 80% and higher.

Just thought Id throw that in.

Im am very interxted in yalls progress as I am about to buy a ZR1 and owuld like to run extremely low boost ~3.5 to 4 psi until I get some low comp pistons and then maybe crank it up to around 8. Im still kinda new to these motors though so that plan may change.

What time do you guys plan on having these on sale

Thanks for your comments. The problem with a supercharger for the ZR-1 is very much the same, if not more so, than front mounted turbos....installation. To the best of my knowledge, no one has yet supercharged an LT5. It comes back to practicality, bang for the buck. The incremental gain realized in supercharging can be had for less money with normal aspirated mods.

Release for sale plans are: just as soon as we can. I know that's not much of an answer, but it's all we have at the moment. The LT1 & LT5 cars were to have been done last Dec and are now slated for completion next week. Tuning, testing, manufacturing of tubing components (which involves removal of the prototype systems, sending tubes out for CAD tracing & mfg quotes from different suppliers to get the best product at the best price, installing the new pieces to insure accuracy of fit, all before authorizing a run of parts) kit inventory, testing of the finished kit for installation & fit all have to occur before it goes out the door. Our top priority is a kit that is complete, installs and fits correctly, functions as advertised and looks great. It takes time to do it right. We're reluctant to comment on timing until we get closer because we don't want to lose credibility. It's already taken much longer than anticipated. A top quality product that functions as represented is our first & foremost objective.

[WB9MCW]

Welcome to the forum Enthusiast and good luck on that ZR-1 score!

[rkreigh]

thanks to jerry and ron in bringing the rear mount turbo systems to the forefront on the ZR-1. even with modest boost pressure, the torq on a turbo car is quite amazing and this offers a great alternative to the typical 368 or 415 build.

as for me, when the 390 LSV motor needs to be freshened up I will be lowering the compression and going turbo. it's nice to have a kit alternative that is more affordable than the full custom route which is quite pricey.

the c5 and c6 platforms both have VERY affordable solutions and it's high time we get in the game. the turbo technology is quite amazing and the results are worth the investment. while the lt5 isn't particaularly well suite, it can be done and gives the king a thornier crown (much bigger teeth!!)

[Enthusiast]

WHat Kind of Pricing are we looking at?

Are yall using stock injectors?

What size turbos and piping are yhall going with?

Any power numbers yet

[A26B]

WHat Kind of Pricing are we looking at?
You're gonna have to be patient. As I stated in the response to your last post, we've got a ways to go before we can even see what our costs are.

Are yall using stock injectors?
The stock injectors will furnish enough fuel for a low boost ZR-1
We are increasing the injector size on the LT1. Will let you know what that is when the dyno work is done and injector size is proven correct.

What size turbos and piping are yhall going with?

LT5: you will have the option of ordering several different types & sizes of turbos. from bushings to bearings. Base setup will include 2 Garrett 30's.

LT1: same as above only a single Garrett 60.

Both will have a single 3" dia exhaust from the engine to the turbo(s) and a 2.5" return for boost air. Both designs will have 3" turbo outlet exhaust to dual tips.

Any power numbers yet
If you will re-read the post I wrote above, you will note that the fabrication is nearing completion, so we have not yet had a completed system available for dyno tuning & testing. However, we're expecting about 390 RWHP on the LT1 @ 8 psi and LT5 @ 425 RWHP @ 5 psi, both with no internal engine mods.

Potential is from there up is enormous if an individual is willing to prep the engine for higher boost.

When we're done with development, we'll furnish a full report on the before and after turbo dyno results, with complete system specs.

[Enthusiast]

Well keep us updated as I am very interested in this kit.
Have you considered selling a tuner kit in which the buyer has to suply there own turbos, blow off valve, wastegate, etc?

Is the Kit intercooled, if so what kind of intercooler and where is it located?

[WB9MCW]

WELL I'LL BE---Imagine a single turbo LT-1 outpulls your stock LT-5 by about 40 to 60 hp rear wheel more--- you now know you need more! Add the TT kit to your Lt-5 and put down a solid 425 to the ground. About a 100 hp improvement over stock. Very nice indeed. Now start adding mod's in and go even higher!!!

[RHanselman]

WELL I'LL BE---Imagine a single turbo LT-1 outpulls your stock LT-5 by about 40 to 60 hp rear wheel more--- you now know you need more! Add the TT kit to your Lt-5 and put down a solid 425 to the ground. About a 100 hp improvement over stock. Very nice indeed. Now start adding mod's in and go even higher!!!

Don't forget, you'll have a substantial increase in TQ :-D

[Vette Guy]

Hey Guys!

Been busy with other "projects" and work..... ZR-1 TT sounds awesome! ...and I've opened up the plenum and IHs....this would be perfect!!! Keep us posted!

Best Regards,

Mark
91 ZR-1, #2016

http://www.corvetteaddiction.com//images/Mark_Horner_91_ZR1.jpg
06' Carlisle Celebrity Choice Award, Vette Magazine

[WB9MCW]

Hey Guys!

Been busy with other "projects" and work..... ZR-1 TT sounds awesome! ...and I've opened up the plenum and IHs....this would be perfect!!! Keep us posted!

Best Regards,

Mark
91 ZR-1, #2016

http://www.corvetteaddiction.com//images/Mark_Horner_91_ZR1.jpg
06' Carlisle Celebrity Choice Award, Vette Magazine


Hey Mark---
Welcome to the forum---glad to see you posting here---terrific looking engine BTW!

[rkreigh]

Hey Guys!

Been busy with other "projects" and work..... ZR-1 TT sounds awesome! ...and I've opened up the plenum and IHs....this would be perfect!!! Keep us posted!

Best Regards,

Mark
91 ZR-1, #2016

http://www.corvetteaddiction.com//images/Mark_Horner_91_ZR1.jpg
06' Carlisle Celebrity Choice Award, Vette Magazine

beautiful work mark. I still think the callaway tt zr1s were the best looking engines ever done. the turbo and intercooler routing was a work of art and the 1k hp on race gas wasn't bad either.

the rear mount solution with either copper hg or the liners stretched into grooves in the head will allow some decent boost and some real hp.

Jerry, save a set of stock cams and lifters for me. I will be going stock again when I TT the ZR1 after riding around in the TT Z06 there is NO question that the TT ZR-1 must be done. I've been lusting after it for too long!! problem is, I've got to wear out that LSV 390 first. it isn't proving to be ez. 57k miles. as soon as it stops pulling over 500 rwhp or has problems it will be time to boost a muv!:D

[Z Factor]

Hey Guys!

Been busy with other "projects" and work..... ZR-1 TT sounds awesome! ...and I've opened up the plenum and IHs....this would be perfect!!! Keep us posted!

Best Regards,

Mark
91 ZR-1, #2016

http://www.corvetteaddiction.com//images/Mark_Horner_91_ZR1.jpg
06' Carlisle Celebrity Choice Award, Vette Magazine

Glad to see you posting. Your LT5 looks unique and very :cool:

:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Okay, I'm convinced and saving my pennies starting today. Thanks for making a dream reality.

[cuisinartvette]

that motor looks fantastic with the black and polish. Very tasteful.