CHMSL LED mod

[secondchance]

I am contemplating Spal fan install this spring and I am hearing, due to heavy amp draw, higher capacity alternator and reducing electric load is advisable. One suggestion made to achieve the latter is to modify CHMSL to LED. In stop and go traffic with foot on the brake, CHMSL represents healthy electrical load is what I was told.

I heard some using Chevy Uplander, Pontiac Mini Van and Olds Silhouette CHMSL (same part) LED strip to work with our Z CHMSL.
I ordered Chevy, Pontiac, Olds CHMSL from Ebay for about $60 (of course a Chinese knock-off).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Rear-3rd-Third-Brake-Light-CHMSL-Buick-Chevy-Oldsmobile-Pontiac-Saturn-Van/153297521756?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Once disassembled and laid next to Z CHMSL housing, turns out LED strip out of GM CHMSL is about 1.5" too long.
https://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0448_zps32vkidmc.jpg (https://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0448_zps32vkidmc.jpg.html)

Hmmm... What to do... I am no electric engineer but careful observation of the circuit board leads me to suspect 4 LED bulbs and a resistor represents one circuit and multiple circuits are connected to the power and ground in parallel. If I remember high school physics class, parallel circuits are such that if I cut excess strip circuits prior to cut should still light up.

Time to bite the bullet and try my theory to rest. If I am right - all good. If not - $60. I take a leap of faith (or is it cut of faith) and snap off excess length of the circuit board with a wire cutter. Hook up 9V battery and "dang!" I am right!

Time to gut OEM CHMSL and secure LED strip into the housing. Although tough to see, I laid down two layers of 3M double stick on the bottom of red plastic housing to keep LED strip from moving around, temporary 3M strip perpendicular to the strip to hold in place.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0450_zpsjsxpxlxw.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0450_zpsjsxpxlxw.jpg.html)

Also, attached 1/4" foam on the inside face of CHMSL upper housing so that, once screwed together with red plastic housing, foam will compress and keep the LED strip secure between the top and bottom pieces of the housing.
Also used insulated spade connectors so that I can switch the polarity if necessary because LED require correct polarity unlike halogens.

End result.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0451_zpskwsamc9k.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0451_zpskwsamc9k.jpg.html)

A close up.
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/uu303/byongyun/IMG_0452_zps8vy3ahgq.jpg (http://s658.photobucket.com/user/byongyun/media/IMG_0452_zps8vy3ahgq.jpg.html)

Not bad for 2 hours on Saturday morning!:cheers:

[Jagdpanzer]

Here is solution I’m going with to handle the higher amp draw of Spal fans
9034
Powermaster 200 amp alternator PN 47864 with PN 186 65mm pulley


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[secondchance]

I am not surprised.

My current alternator was beefed up when rebuilt last year to 145 amp. I have been contemplating a billet alternator putting out 200 amp.

Guess I should spread out mod works. Wouldn't know what to do when done...
Been also thinking about coilover FX3 vs. Van Steele 2 way adjustable coilovers. We shall see...

[Jagdpanzer]

This was Charlie’s fault. He shamed me in to it.


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[secondchance]

This was Charlie’s fault. He shamed me in to it.


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It’ Charlie’s fault I messed with my CHMSL too.

[dredgeguy]

Guilty as charged but mods not my fault, Wazoo started it................

[GOLDCYLON]

Guilty as charged but mods not my fault, Wazoo started it................

Actually -=JEFF=- started it when he made mine about 12 years ago. I am also running SPAL fans with a normal Alternator with no issues. However I have also been running LEDS everywhere for about 10 years. So....

[secondchance]

Actually -=JEFF=- started it when he made mine about 12 years ago. I am also running SPAL fans with a normal Alternator with no issues. However I have also been running LEDS everywhere for about 10 years. So....

Which LED do you recommend for tail/brake lights and side markers?

[-=Jeff=-]

Yep I started this mod based off of owning an Uplander. I needed a new housing and repurposed the use for my ZR-1.

GC is using my side marker circuits for his cars. I have yet to make a set for me though.. lol..

Yes the Uplander light works great however, I have the OEM set up with light diffuser not the dorman replacement like second chance does

[spork2367]

Have you done the calculations for any of this? Lets say every auxiliary light on the car (minus headlights and fog lights) draws 200 watts (my ballpark for our cars with brakes being applied probably accurate +/- 20 watts). That's about 17 amps. If you replaced them all with LED's, you could expect to cut that down to 6-10%, so you'd have 1.7 amps. So for approximation sake, best case, you save 15 amps. The 16 inch spal fans are 26 amps. I can't believe the alternator is so undersized that it can't accommodate the fan as is, but if that is the case, saving 15 amps isn't exactly a huge safety margin as you're still asking 8-10% more of the alternators max output.

If you're just talking about the CHMSL, it uses four #891 bulbs at 8 watts a piece for total of 2.6 amps.

If you swapped every exterior light on the car to an LED (including fog lights and headlights), you still wouldn't save the 26 amps a 16" spal uses. Total exterior light usage is 27 amps. Keep in mind, the power supplies used for LED fog lights and head lights are not as efficient as those used in small bulbs and they require significantly more power. So while a tail light LED may use 6-10% of the power of a standard incandescent, an LED headlight will be closer to 30-50%. Especially considering the original headlights were low wattage even by todays standards.

Other solution is...not using your brakes will save you 11 amps!...:)

Just some food for thought.

[GOLDCYLON]

Have you done the calculations for any of this? Lets say every auxiliary light on the car (minus headlights and fog lights) draws 200 watts (my ballpark for our cars with brakes being applied probably accurate +/- 20 watts). That's about 17 amps. If you replaced them all with LED's, you could expect to cut that down to 6-10%, so you'd have 1.7 amps. So for approximation sake, best case, you save 15 amps. The 16 inch spal fans are 26 amps. I can't believe the alternator is so undersized that it can't accommodate the fan as is, but if that is the case, saving 15 amps isn't exactly a huge safety margin as you're still asking 8-10% more of the alternators max output.

If you're just talking about the CHMSL, it uses four #891 bulbs at 8 watts a piece for total of 2.6 amps.

If you swapped every exterior light on the car to an LED (including fog lights and headlights), you still wouldn't save the 26 amps a 16" spal uses. Total exterior light usage is 27 amps. Keep in mind, the power supplies used for LED fog lights and head lights are not as efficient as those used in small bulbs and they require significantly more power. So while a tail light LED may use 6-10% of the power of a standard incandescent, an LED headlight will be closer to 30-50%. Especially considering the original headlights were low wattage even by todays standards.

Other solution is...not using your brakes will save you 11 amps!...:)

Just some food for thought.

Lol that’s a lot of food there... and Math arrrrgggghhh. I have the interior kit, the headlights, the tail lights, side markers, backup lights, reverse lights, license plates lights and the spare tire light. All LEDs. I did not do the math (thank god for ken in Apollo 13 who just kept working the LEM startup sequence while the engineer ran the ammeter and the coffee pot) and I am running dual Dewitt spal fans with a standard alt with zero issues. Pretty much everything with the exception of the headlights and tail lights was bought online at super bright LEDs.

[GOLDCYLON]

Which LED do you recommend for tail/brake lights and side markers?

Speak to -=JEFF=- ;)

[GOLDCYLON]

Which LED do you recommend for tail/brake lights and side markers?

For the tail lights I went with the multiple LED model and did not just replace the bulb. The model I went with replaced the entire rear lens. Been running that on my white car 13 years and it’s also on my 90 and my sons 96 GS.

https://i.imgur.com/N0wkHBq.jpg

I did this for safety really. One time in a 14 month period my GMC Jimmy was rear ended 3 times in 15 months. The Vette is so low and I am always waiting on the Azz hat to jump into my lane daily at least I have done everything possible for them to see me including running DRLs on ALL my cars. My forum bud Dom hates this model because it makes a little cross for a light and honestly I get that but I agree it would have looked a little better if they had added one more LED to the top second and second from the bottom row which would have rounded it a little more. The brightness even in full AZ sun is outstanding! GC

[spork2367]

Lol that’s a lot of food there... and Math arrrrgggghhh. I have the interior kit, the headlights, the tail lights, side markers, backup lights, reverse lights, license plates lights and the spare tire light. All LEDs. I did not do the math (thank god for ken in Apollo 13 who just kept working the LEM startup sequence while the engineer ran the ammeter and the coffee pot) and I am running dual Dewitt spal fans with a standard alt with zero issues. Pretty much everything with the exception of the headlights and tail lights was bought online.

So based on rough math, during nightime driving conditions (when interior lights aren't on) you're consuming about 5 amps more than the car did stock.

One thing this doesn't take into account is the operating time of the spal fans vs stock fans. The fact is, once you consider the stock fan amperage the difference is probably miniscule.

[GOLDCYLON]

So based on rough math, during nightime driving conditions (when interior lights aren't on) you're consuming about 5 amps more than the car did stock.

Which is my guess is why the stock alt can handle the draw It’s just 5 amps.... right? Also don’t forget the SPALs do not always run.

[GOLDCYLON]

So based on rough math, during nightime driving conditions (when interior lights aren't on) you're consuming about 5 amps more than the car did stock.

One thing this doesn't take into account is the operating time of the spal fans vs stock fans. The fact is, once you consider the stock fan amperage the difference is probably miniscule.

My thoughts as well and concur.

[secondchance]

Worst case scenario for Spal fan would hot summer day, AC on full blast in stop and go traffic. Not gonna do math though...

[GOLDCYLON]

Worst case scenario for Spal fan would hot summer day, AC on full blast in stop and go traffic. Not gonna do math though...

Me neither. But it is interesting to know what the numbers are so you DONT overload or the alt with mods. If you continue lmk. I have been there done that lol

[secondchance]

I have converted to LED headlights, HID driving (fog) lights and of course LED CHMSL and LEDs for all interior lights. Now, looking into LED tail lights.

Obvious benefit for these conversions are extra illumination (especially head lights), reduced electrical load and longevity of bulbs. My understanding is (and I may be wrong) that, even if functional and not so apparent, excessive electrical load can result in short service life for alternator.

[GOLDCYLON]

I have converted to LED headlights, HID driving (fog) lights and of course LED CHMSL and LEDs for all interior lights. Now, looking into LED tail lights.

Obvious benefit for these conversions are extra illumination (especially head lights), reduced electrical load and longevity of bulbs. My understanding is (and I may be wrong) that, even if functional and not so apparent, excessive electrical load can result in short service life for alternator.

I agree but even if the math is right 5 amps isn’t going to do it. Without doing the math I’m fine otherwise the amp meter in the car and the car would have something to say about being under volted. GC :cheers:

[-=Jeff=-]

rear bulbs

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PHS34QW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01__o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Paul Workman]

Which LED do you recommend for tail/brake lights and side markers?

There is a series article in HOTB which goes into detail, including sources and options for LEDs.

Some of the individual electrical circuits may require LOAD resistors to replace the original current drawn by the stock incandescent bulbs or certain components (e.g., relays, blinker switches, etc) may not work - affecting other lights, etc. in the circuit.

Where LOAD RESISTOR option is necessary, understand that resistor is intended to restore the normal (stock) current load otherwise interrupted by the insertion of the LED(s). No reduction in current load (of the alternator) will be realized...in those instances.

The CHMSL is NOT one of them. The CHMSL circuit branch is isolated from the brake light circuit branch - "stand alone" (if you will). Therefore, the CHMSL is unique in that no LOAD resistor is necessary.

However, If LEDs are inserted in the tail/stop lights, you have two choices:


LOAD RESISTORS

using a special "LED" (turn signal) blinker* (highly recommended!)

*Upgrading the turn signal blinker avoids having to use LOAD RESISTORS. Such resistors replaces the original current demands of the original circuit design, defeating the advantage using LEDs would have otherwise provided.

The stock HAZARD blinker does NOT have to be changed - internally designed differently to work regardless of the load, even if one or more lights are damaged/not working.

For more specific details/sources, PM me.

[secondchance]

However, If LEDs are inserted in the tail/stop lights, you have two choices:


LOAD RESISTORS

using a special "LED" (turn signal) blinker* (highly recommended!)

*Upgrading the turn signal blinker avoids having to use LOAD RESISTORS. Such resistors replaces the original current demands of the original circuit design, defeating the advantage using LEDs would have otherwise provided.

The stock HAZARD blinker does NOT have to be changed - internally designed differently to work regardless of the load, even if one or more lights are damaged/not working.

For more specific details/sources, PM me.

Thanks for the heads-up, Paul. I suspected reduced load messing with conventional blinker and ordered LED friendly electronic blinkers. Didn't know about hazard lights not needing electronic blinker and ordered two. Ah, well...

Also, last Saturday I was eager to see if I can make CHMSL work with new LED strip and used 3M solution to rig it - not the most elegant solution. I ordered 1/8" x 1/8" plastic angles so that I can create a slot where LED strip can be slid in and out. No one probably will ever have to disassemble CHMSL housing since LED life expectancy is pretty high but just in case the next owner (not that I am planning on selling the car but) upon disassembly will not double over in laughter.

[-=Jeff=-]

I have no Load resistors and Hazard flasher works fine.. I still have the front 2 parking bulbs as incandescent.. no issues

[secondchance]

I have no Load resistors and Hazard flasher works fine.. I still have the front 2 parking bulbs as incandescent.. no issues

I wonder if it’s due to 4 LED lights lighting up simultaneously adding up to sufficient load that even conventional blinker is able to see the load and function as intended.

[Paul Workman]

I have no Load resistors and Hazard flasher works fine.. I still have the front 2 parking bulbs as incandescent.. no issues

Yep! I concur. Initially I considered LOAD resistors for the tail lights, because the turn blinker would not function after LEDs were installed (current draw was too small w/ LEDs). However, replacing the blinker with one deigned to work with LEDs was much easier to do.

If one also replaces the HAZARD blinker for an LED rated one, I don't see that being necessary, based on actual testing. With or without bulbs or LEDs connected, the HAZARD blinker cycled at the same rate - regardless of load.

Obviously then, it (the blinker switch) appears to be a different animal from the turn signal blinker...AND it makes sense(?) when I thought about it: HAZARD function is critical, even if one or several lights are (say) smashed/broken in an accident - the reason for using the HAZARD blinker in the first place. Whereas, the turn signal blinker failing is intended as an indicator to the driver that a bulb is burnt out/not working (i.e., not on the same level of urgency as the HAZARD blinker...).

I opted for simply replacing the incandescent tail/brake light bulbs with LEDs.

Far as LED brightness goes, there are choices. I chose LEDs that do boost visibility somewhat, but (my thought was) w/o being obnoxiously bright to drivers behind me. Cost too increases with lumens. But, I don't see the need for the stop lights to "blare" like the after-burners of a fighter jet![-X

The brake lights are "tower" LEDs; cylindrical. However, the sockets for the corner turn illumination lights would not accept the tower bulbs, due to the construction of the LED bases. Some go after the sockets with a Dremel and reshape them so the LEDs would fit. However, there IS an LED replacement that has the proper base designed to be a direct replacement for incandescent bulbs (also shown below).

.

[GOLDCYLON]

Far as LED brightness goes, there are choices. I chose LEDs that do boost visibility somewhat, but (my thought was) w/o being obnoxiously bright to drivers behind me. Cost too increases with lumens. But, I don't see the need for the stop lights to "blare" like the after-burners of a fighter jet![-X



I completely disagree with this statement. As stated above I was rear ended on the freeway 3 times in 15 months. I would rather burn a hole in the AZZHATs retina behind me if it saves me from being rear ended ever again (BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT SEE ME STOPPING). My Zs are daily drivers vs. a pleasure car on the weekends so every work day I am in the thick of traffic. Its a safety issue. My Safety..

[Paul Workman]

I completely disagree with this statement. As stated above I was rear ended on the freeway 3 times in 15 months. I would rather burn a hole in the AZZHATs retina behind me if it saves me from being rear ended ever again (BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT SEE ME STOPPING). My Zs are daily drivers vs. a pleasure car on the weekends so every work day I am in the thick of traffic. Its a safety issue. My Safety..

You may have a point! And, those "retina burning" LEDs are available. But, i'm not sure a red ARC light would make a difference...I'm familiar with Pheonix AND Tucson area freeway traffic - almost as bad as I-295 or I-355's contruction zones @ rush hour through Chicago. (Perhaps welding a section of railroad track as bumpers might work. Hang LEDs from those!:censored:

[GOLDCYLON]

You may have a point! And, those "retina burning" LEDs are available. But, i'm not sure a red ARC light would make a difference...I'm familiar with Pheonix AND Tucson area freeway traffic - almost as bad as I-295 or I-355's contruction zones @ rush hour through Chicago. (Perhaps welding a section of railroad track as bumpers might work. Hang LEDs from those!:censored:

Lol and rear rockets. Remember James Bond drove a C4 in a bond film

[XfireZ51]

I have one of Jeff’s CHMSL on RozaNero.

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Hey, I’ll blame it on Yun, who blames Charlie for my CHMSL LED mod today....LOL. I did the Harbor Freight one to my 90 way back when, but wanted a better one for the 95. Japan is LED country so I went to the local DIY store and got a 30 cm or 12” strip for $12 US. It was about an inch too long on each side, but it wraps around nicely on the inside. The install was easy and all I did with cut the wires and soldered, then heat shrink. I lined up the LED strip on the center on the lens and borrowed the wife’s crafting glue gun to adhere the strip to the lens. Since the glue is clear you can’t see it at all from the outside.

I love how it turned out and a nice cheap mod while waiting for the exterior LED bulbs to show up. Thanks for the inspiration Yun!!

[secondchance]

Very nice, Craig!:cheers:

[HAWAIIZR-1]

Very nice, Craig!:cheers:



Thank Yun!!! [emoji847]🤙🏼


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